Forums » The Ogres

Bigger isn't always better!

    • 266 posts
    March 5, 2016 6:28 AM PST

    sorry, couldn't help it :P

    (hint: it usually is)

    I was curious about size and function really. Some MMOs, they do the 'large' races a touch too large; you get your not fitting through places, your camera angle being downwards (which tires the eyes oh so quick), your navigation within limited spaces constrained/restriced and so on.. oh and nevermind your completely obscuring smaller races standing near you. Which in certain cases can be a big issue. Pun intended.

    So how will Ogres fare in relation to all that? If anyone knows obviously..

     

     


    This post was edited by Aenra at March 5, 2016 6:29 AM PST
    • 659 posts
    March 9, 2016 7:31 PM PST

    Aenra said:

    sorry, couldn't help it :P

    (hint: it usually is)

    I was curious about size and function really. Some MMOs, they do the 'large' races a touch too large; you get your not fitting through places, your camera angle being downwards (which tires the eyes oh so quick), your navigation within limited spaces constrained/restriced and so on.. oh and nevermind your completely obscuring smaller races standing near you. Which in certain cases can be a big issue. Pun intended.

    So how will Ogres fare in relation to all that? If anyone knows obviously..

    I think I brought this up on another thread about the scale of the game, making sure that different races (and NPCs for that matter) who have different body sizes base their environment on that so that we can experience the effects.  If you played EQ1 and went into Kael Drakkel for the first time, I finally felt small.  Even though my character was a Troll, many times she had to jump to get up certain steps.  Giants were truly giant.

    We need different races to be adversely affected by different environments.  Why should an Ogre be comfortable moving through a Dwarven city when they are barely half our height?  By the same token, they should need a stepstool just to reach the doorknobs in our dwellings.

    In the general outdoors?  We'd have a much easier time than other races, especially if there is any significant ground cover (tall grass, bushes, etc).  We can see over all that while Halfings, Gnomes and Dwarves could easily have their sightlines blocked.

    We can hope that within the spell lines of the magic users there will be Shrink and Grow.

     


    This post was edited by Vandraad at March 9, 2016 7:32 PM PST
    • 266 posts
    March 9, 2016 11:30 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Why should an Ogre be comfortable moving through a Dwarven city when they are barely half our height? 

     

     You are going to use the extreme opposite in the spectrum to prove your point? Did i express a desire for equal height between the races? Am sure i didn't :)

    I'm not advocating for zero empirical difference between the various races (ie just a colour re-skin and call it a day). I am merely saying that there is 'larger' and then there is 'problematic'. Obviously that differs according to the individual in question, but i don't think it's a distinction anyone could disagree with. I also think it's a distinction that becomes even more highlighted when classes are locked behind races, and in a limited fashion at that. The more my choices are limited if it is a specific class i am after, the more i find this to be of import. Hence, my asking :)

    Theory is all very nice, except it goes out the window when it's time for practice. You see theoretically, i'd be looking through my Ogre's eyes. All very natural. But in practice, i'm in fact constrained to looking from behind him. Meaning that effectively, the larger he is, the less i can discern of my surroundings. Practical issue. And because gameplay is only about the practice, disadvantages are something to be concerned of. Could name you two different MMOs where i just couldn't play a large race healer, not without a full healer UI replacing my view. Simply because i could --not-- see. My char's bodymass covered way too much. That is a practical issue.


    This post was edited by Aenra at March 9, 2016 11:43 PM PST
    • 659 posts
    March 10, 2016 5:54 PM PST

    Aenra said:

    Vandraad said:

    Why should an Ogre be comfortable moving through a Dwarven city when they are barely half our height? 

     

     You are going to use the extreme opposite in the spectrum to prove your point? Did i express a desire for equal height between the races? Am sure i didn't :)

    I'm not advocating for zero empirical difference between the various races (ie just a colour re-skin and call it a day). I am merely saying that there is 'larger' and then there is 'problematic'. Obviously that differs according to the individual in question, but i don't think it's a distinction anyone could disagree with. I also think it's a distinction that becomes even more highlighted when classes are locked behind races, and in a limited fashion at that. The more my choices are limited if it is a specific class i am after, the more i find this to be of import. Hence, my asking :)

    Theory is all very nice, except it goes out the window when it's time for practice. You see theoretically, i'd be looking through my Ogre's eyes. All very natural. But in practice, i'm in fact constrained to looking from behind him. Meaning that effectively, the larger he is, the less i can discern of my surroundings. Practical issue. And because gameplay is only about the practice, disadvantages are something to be concerned of. Could name you two different MMOs where i just couldn't play a large race healer, not without a full healer UI replacing my view. Simply because i could --not-- see. My char's bodymass covered way too much. That is a practical issue.

    I'm curious why you think that in practice you are contrained to to be looking from behind your character?  Not a fan of 1st person view?

    • 266 posts
    March 11, 2016 3:25 AM PST

    Well the 'gesture' (in terms of the developer in charge having put in the effort) would i suppose be appreciated, but ..no.. never. Quite honestly, am surprised you're even asking. You just cannot do serious group content like that.. Anyway, personally speaking (of course), i find it a waste of time and resources far as MMOs in specific are concerned. Or at best, something superfluous/not something i'd use :)

    - You need an overall, 360 awareness and an FP camera mode denies you that. And healers and tanks -primarily- need that; a lot. Their flanks, or what constitues them at any a time, are just as important as what's right in front of them. Likewise with their six o'clock. In a non-static gameplay, what was in front of you three seconds ago, can now be at your back. How would you track it now? You at best have, what? A ninety degrees FoV? More like 65-75, broader and the eyes tire... the answer is you wouldn't track it. Gone. A similar situation in as far as ground effects/alterations be concerned. The tighter your view angle, and FP mode IS the tightest, the more your eyes are forced to move from 'front' to 'down', again entailing your tracking one thing at the time. Up.. down.. Up again.. down. Which leads us to the second point:

    - In an FP mode, your acknowledging the above (ie being a good healer) would signify your constantly being forced to turn your field of view away from what's meant to be your primary focus/ahead of you. How else could you look in a different direction? Except, again, in a non static environment, you often have to be multi-tasking. The time it takes to turn around, aaaall the way, and then turn back front, is time enough for someone important to die. Even though "i was right in front of you!!! Are you blind?"

    Definitely 3rd person. And because definitely 3rd person.. size does matter (all puns intended, hide the young ones). Hence my original enquiry :)


    This post was edited by Aenra at March 11, 2016 3:30 AM PST
    • 659 posts
    March 11, 2016 5:53 PM PST

    Well, to each their own but I've never had any issues at all with first person in any game I've played regardless of class.  That said, I understand your concern and do hope that what physical size differences exist won't be too much of a detriment in the viewmode you want.

    • 2136 posts
    November 7, 2016 8:58 AM PST

    I think it's so important to realism and RP that races come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. It makes sense that you might have to duck to fit through some doors in an area that is native to smaller races like gnomes, halflings, or dwarves (if you should be so brave to travel that far.) And as others have mentioned, it's important to have interdependence, such as relying on a wizard to cast a spell on you to shrink you so that you can fit through small spaces.

    I personally don't think first-person vs third-person view matters at all. I enjoy the immersion of first person from time to time, and I think it would be interesting to have to look down to make sure I don't accidentally step on any dwarves while I'm playing an ogre. And usually if I'm in any sort of important battle, I zoom out to see the big picture. But the size of my character in that regard has never bothered me at all. And I like to play all sorts of races. But that's just me.

    • 2 posts
    March 28, 2017 5:26 AM PDT
    Not fitting into certain areasituations was one of the downsides to playing an ogre in EQ1. It was a minor challenge at times and an important downside to playing a large race. I would like to see that happen again.
    • 1248 posts
    April 5, 2017 2:48 PM PDT

    I remember having plenty of issues with vision and seeing my crouched character looking like a mountain next to some of the smaller races.  I think tanks should be big targets ... for both allies and the bad guys.  Oh ... ogres can play shaman and druid too?  Whoops!  Ogre tank for life!


    This post was edited by oneADseven at April 5, 2017 4:31 PM PDT
    • 49 posts
    May 11, 2017 10:27 AM PDT

    Cildin said: Not fitting into certain areasituations was one of the downsides to playing an ogre in EQ1. It was a minor challenge at times and an important downside to playing a large race. I would like to see that happen again.

     

    Need a Shaman! Or the Shrinking potions or the Cobalt Bracers clicky.
    Man I loved it. I hope this gets implemented. Too big/tall to fit.

     

    Oh memories...

    • 237 posts
    May 12, 2017 6:09 AM PDT

    Cildin said: Not fitting into certain areasituations was one of the downsides to playing an ogre in EQ1.


    This was an upside for me! Aside from the hilarity of not fitting in some spots, the reliance upon Shamans and/or shrink potions added a really unique preparation demand. 

    Halfling: "There's a new dungeon just discovered to the east of here! Let's go get some sweet loot!"
    Ogre: "Yeah sure! Sounds fun. But uh... will I... you know... fit?"
    *tosses a shrink potion*
    Halfing: "Here ya go big fella."

    • 659 posts
    May 13, 2017 7:38 PM PDT

    Syntro said:

    Cildin said: Not fitting into certain areasituations was one of the downsides to playing an ogre in EQ1.


    This was an upside for me! Aside from the hilarity of not fitting in some spots, the reliance upon Shamans and/or shrink potions added a really unique preparation demand. 

    Halfling: "There's a new dungeon just discovered to the east of here! Let's go get some sweet loot!"
    Ogre: "Yeah sure! Sounds fun. But uh... will I... you know... fit?"
    *tosses a shrink potion*
    Halfing: "Here ya go big fella."

    What about taking that to its natural conclusion?  That being needing to be increased in size in order to access some content?  Content where even Ogres are too small to climb the steps?  This is what irked me about places like Kael Drakkel, Skyshrine and other zones where giants or dragons lived..the players could easly make their way in and around those environments with little difficulty.  Yes, there were a few places in Kael where a gnome would need to jump to make it over a step but otherwise nothing special needed.

    Why not have it so we would need to scale ourselves up to go through their environments?

    • 237 posts
    May 15, 2017 2:33 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Why not have it so we would need to scale ourselves up to go through their environments?



    I think that's a fantastic idea. I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where an Ogre is optimally sized naturally, but other smaller races need to be scaled up. Maybe something to do with climbing? I can easily see situations where the whole group needs to be scaled up. Good stuff as usual Vandraad.

    • 2136 posts
    May 15, 2017 5:57 PM PDT

    Syntro said:

    Vandraad said:

    Why not have it so we would need to scale ourselves up to go through their environments?



    I think that's a fantastic idea. I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where an Ogre is optimally sized naturally, but other smaller races need to be scaled up. Maybe something to do with climbing? I can easily see situations where the whole group needs to be scaled up. Good stuff as usual Vandraad.

    Maybe some sort of hill giant fortress? With stairs tailored to giants' feet.

    • 18 posts
    June 1, 2017 3:45 PM PDT

    I like Big Ogre's.  Easy to see them when they are using Halflings as blunt weapons.    I also like large tanks in pve because it's easy to find us if the healer or healers are tab target or click on people to heal.  I agree 100% on the line of sight and having to crouch, but that's part of being an ogre  :)  

     

    I also can't wait to see a Ogre Druid kiting lol!!!