Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Raid mechanics.

    • 338 posts
    February 28, 2016 6:01 AM PST

    Over the years and through many different games there have been lots of different raid mobs to kill.

     

    I prefer raids mobs that are powerful with lots of special abilities they can draw on but not necessarily on a rigid pattern.

     

    In early games these boss mobs could flurry, rampage, stun, knockback, banish, quad, ae, etc...

     

    But at some point raids became more of a dance where at certain percentages you had to be ready to do certain tasks during the raid... pull levers, stand on certain spots, rub your belly and pat your head...

     

    Once you learned the patterns it was just a matter of execution.

     

    Some of my favorite raid mechanics include:

    Every time a player dies the boss heals or does a nasty ae - This keeps players honest and paying attention

    Boss mobs that have to be killed within a short window of their trash dying - This makes you split up the force and tank multiple mobs at once all the while coordinating their health pools.

    Summoning randomized waves of adds that may have different abilities depending on what waves you get.

    Boss mobs that freeze or web players that then have to be freed by their guild mates before the cage kills them.

    Frontal and rear cones ae attacks that require solid tank and player positioning. (NOT marked with stupid circles on the ground !!)

     

    ...and plenty more maybe I'll edit in as I think of them.

     

    What are your favorite raid mechanics and why were they fun to you ?

     

     

    Thanks for reading,

    Kiz~

    • 2419 posts
    February 28, 2016 10:04 AM PST

    Angrykiz said:

    Some of my favorite raid mechanics include:

    Every time a player dies the boss heals or does a nasty ae - This keeps players honest and paying attention

    Boss mobs that have to be killed within a short window of their trash dying - This makes you split up the force and tank multiple mobs at once all the while coordinating their health pools.

    Summoning randomized waves of adds that may have different abilities depending on what waves you get.

    Boss mobs that freeze or web players that then have to be freed by their guild mates before the cage kills them.

    Frontal and rear cones ae attacks that require solid tank and player positioning. (NOT marked with stupid circles on the ground !!)

     

    What are your favorite raid mechanics and why were they fun to you ?

     

    Thanks for reading,

    Kiz~

    In the Gates of Discord expansion was the zone Inktu'Ta, the Unmasked Chapel.  In theCursecaller raid event there were 5 ghosts named Fhwqwhgads (1pp to the first person who knows this reference) which would, throughout the event, whisper to a random person in the raid and immediately start chasing that person. If it touched you, you died.  There wasn't anything you could do to these NPCs other than just avoid them.   It was critical that you paid attention not only to catch the whispher but also to when it decided to switch targets so you could get back to main event.

    Back in the Luclin expansion, Ssraeshza Temple, had the most varied encounters at the time.  You had to take different approaches to nearly every boss there.  One boss could really only be beaten by keeping him moving, interrupting his constant and very very deadly spell casting. Others needed you to off-tank several sub-bosses in a different room. Then you had the Emperor where you needed to keep multiple adds off-tanked while making sure you had good positioning on Emperor.

    So for mechanics I like to see:

    • Adds which need to be actively dealt with during the encounter, preferably by off-tanking.
    • Positioning of both of raid target and players being rewarded (avoiding AEs, melee from sides/rear avoiding Riposte/Enrage, etc)
    • Changes in the environment which requires repositioning of raid target(s) and players (think sections of floor lowering into lava, etc).
    • Changes in the attack profile of the main target (rampage, flurry, enrage, etc) which requires reaction by melee.
    • AE effects like Knockback, Gravity Flux, Silence, Stun, Blind,etc) which requires quick recovery reactions from players.
    • 1778 posts
    February 28, 2016 11:26 AM PST

    Well I dont want to see Dance-Dance Revolution type insanely choreographed fights. If you need an example look up a video for the Titan Primal fight in FFXIV. I can do that type of play, but it was as frustarting as it was boring to me. Once you memorize the "dance steps", its not a big deal. But I like more freedom in a MMO. The ability to tackle things in different ways based on group make-up and strategy. Not running around like a chicken with my head cut off as I try desperately to keep up my (ugghh) rotation.

     

    I will say I dont necessarily mind gimmicky fights. Not all the time mind you. But having to use environment as a weapon in some fights wouldnt other me. The important thing is to not have it in every fight and not require that mechanic be used. Like pulling a lever that drops rocks to stun a Named (very simplistic i know). Or lets say a Named throws firebals that track a target and someone can kite them right back at the Named. Again though this should be an option not something you have to do. I think choice and potential for emergent gameplay is important.

     

    Also Ill add in kiting and Dual Tanking. Those can be fun if done right.

    • 126 posts
    February 28, 2016 11:01 PM PST

    I can't say a have favorite raid mechanics, I can just say what I don't want to see. And oh yes, the Titan fight also came to my mind when thinking of raid mechanics I don't want to see. Not that it wasn't a challenging fight till you memorized when landslide and weight of the land came, but well. Given that I stopped playing FFXIV when I got my weapon, I didn't see much of their raids aside ifrit, Garuda and Titan, but in my memory it was just mostly running around. That is not enough to make an encounter interesting. 

    Also please no lazy enrage timers. Fights can be more interesting than that.

     

    • 1714 posts
    February 28, 2016 11:03 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Angrykiz said:

    Some of my favorite raid mechanics include:

    Every time a player dies the boss heals or does a nasty ae - This keeps players honest and paying attention

    Boss mobs that have to be killed within a short window of their trash dying - This makes you split up the force and tank multiple mobs at once all the while coordinating their health pools.

    Summoning randomized waves of adds that may have different abilities depending on what waves you get.

    Boss mobs that freeze or web players that then have to be freed by their guild mates before the cage kills them.

    Frontal and rear cones ae attacks that require solid tank and player positioning. (NOT marked with stupid circles on the ground !!)

     

    What are your favorite raid mechanics and why were they fun to you ?

     

    Thanks for reading,

    Kiz~

    In the Gates of Discord expansion was the zone Inktu'Ta, the Unmasked Chapel.  In theCursecaller raid event there were 5 ghosts named Fhwqwhgads (1pp to the first person who knows this reference) which would, throughout the event, whisper to a random person in the raid and immediately start chasing that person. If it touched you, you died.  There wasn't anything you could do to these NPCs other than just avoid them.   It was critical that you paid attention not only to catch the whispher but also to when it decided to switch targets so you could get back to main event.

    Back in the Luclin expansion, Ssraeshza Temple, had the most varied encounters at the time.  You had to take different approaches to nearly every boss there.  One boss could really only be beaten by keeping him moving, interrupting his constant and very very deadly spell casting. Others needed you to off-tank several sub-bosses in a different room. Then you had the Emperor where you needed to keep multiple adds off-tanked while making sure you had good positioning on Emperor.

    So for mechanics I like to see:

    • Adds which need to be actively dealt with during the encounter, preferably by off-tanking.
    • Positioning of both of raid target and players being rewarded (avoiding AEs, melee from sides/rear avoiding Riposte/Enrage, etc)
    • Changes in the environment which requires repositioning of raid target(s) and players (think sections of floor lowering into lava, etc).
    • Changes in the attack profile of the main target (rampage, flurry, enrage, etc) which requires reaction by melee.
    • AE effects like Knockback, Gravity Flux, Silence, Stun, Blind,etc) which requires quick recovery reactions from players.

    Come on Fhwqwhgads 

    • 428 posts
    February 29, 2016 8:10 AM PST

    One of my favorite was three princes raid in EQ2.  You had three raid bosses that knocked back stunned and deaggroed you wwere ona cliff so if you got knocked to far back you were running a long way to get back to the raid.  On top of that all three mobs had to be withen like 10 percent HP of each other.  Add that with your tanks having to regain aggro on a different raid boss every minute or so it was an amazingly fun fight.

     

     

    • 157 posts
    March 1, 2016 9:57 AM PST

    I don't think I can answer this question.  If all raid bosses are open-world encounters, I'd need to know how much interference other guilds / groups are going to be running.  How much are these bosses going to be contested?  And how will participation in the fight be rewarded?  

    • 511 posts
    March 1, 2016 7:51 PM PST

    I like Bosses that are random to a point. It is ok at every 25% to spawn adds etc but I like knowing that at a random attack the boss could quad hit, that at a random time he may cast a self-thorn where all melee attacking him for 30 seconds take heavy dmg. Set mechanics is nice but like you said it can get boring pretty fast when all you have to do is time the fight properly and you win.

    • 671 posts
    March 1, 2016 10:02 PM PST

     

    The best raid mechanics, are the ones nobody has figured out yet...

    Everything you explain becomes tedium, because mobs only have a known set of rules. All of that is about to change.

    • 201 posts
    March 2, 2016 12:26 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    So for mechanics I like to see:

    • Adds which need to be actively dealt with during the encounter, preferably by off-tanking.
    • Positioning of both of raid target and players being rewarded (avoiding AEs, melee from sides/rear avoiding Riposte/Enrage, etc)
    • Changes in the environment which requires repositioning of raid target(s) and players (think sections of floor lowering into lava, etc).
    • Changes in the attack profile of the main target (rampage, flurry, enrage, etc) which requires reaction by melee.
    • AE effects like Knockback, Gravity Flux, Silence, Stun, Blind,etc) which requires quick recovery reactions from players.

     

    I agree with this.

    I also like the idea of giving raid monsters more than 1 personallity... For Example, "The first time you fight the monster, he plays like this... Next time you come in, he could fight like fight entirely differently.. Example Passive, or Super Aggressive, Turtle ETC.

    Maybe even give the raid monster Different Skill sets Depending on the time of day you started the fight (like you guys said, some spells may be more or less effective in different weather etc.).

    I think that the raid monster should also detect how many Arch type roles the raid has, so it can choose from the different personallities. To give the players the maximum amount of challenge... I.E. It detects that there is a Lack of Healers and tanks, so it will go more to an aggressive stance and try burnng through your heals alot faster. (not the best example I am sorry)

    I think we all can learn a little from the "Dark Souls" series, and how the "Bosses" progressively kept getting harder and harder throughout the fight. Make 1 mistake and the boss is all over you. Challeneges like that; Challenege the player and makes them keep wanting to come back for more, because the game has just challeneged them to like to a duel. (Or atleast that is the way I see it.)

     

    Best,

    PFC Sanborn

    US OR ARMY NATIONAL GUARD

    741 BEB (-) 141 IBCT

    • 63 posts
    March 2, 2016 5:19 PM PST

    I actually really enjoyed the "Opera" encounter in Karazhan back in my WoW days. I remember our guild trying to figure out why there were seemingly random "plays" that occurred once we triggered the encounter.

    For those not familiar with the encounter, a guild basically initiated an event where you didn't know which boss fight you were going to have. There were three plays (Red Riding Hood, Romeo and Juliet, and Wizard of Oz), and each one required you to fight mobs using new and unique strategies. The raid size was only 10, so group composition really mattered when attempting the event. The best part is the event was optional, so if you couldn't beat whichever play you were served or just wanted to skip it, you could still push on further into the dungeon.

    To other's points, raids always boil down to execution. Players WILL learn the strategies, but a tight-knit team (something most guilds aspire to be) have fun and feel accomplished putting a raid mob on "farm status."

    Talv