Im going to be honest I loved some instance zones bec ause I didnt have to worry about competeing to do a zone. Many of you are going to be SOOOOOOO Salty when the top guilds/players put all the good zones on lockdown and everyone else is SOL. It happens in every game that has open world even when instances are in use. The only way to fight it is on a PVP server.
PS I speak from experaince Pandemonium on EQ1 Zek server locked down sooo much content the lesser geared had no chance to do anything. Same thing in EQ2 in the guild I was on we put it on lockdown and had the power to keep it locked down
Simples said: Liav speaks some truth and it makes me laugh because I see a lot of eq leetest supporting this game, so that's the type of feedback you'll get. Old schoolers longing for the old school community with updated graphics and challenges. What a derailed topic
Haha Not all of us EQ leet are like that. Plenty of stuff SUCKED in that game.
What do i not want to see:
Quest hubs
Instant Ports Everywhere
Instant Mana Hp Regen after Combat i actually want some downtime so i can seek Gear to reduce it.
Short Leashing of Mobs
Item Drops like Candy
Instances
Too many Zones that are accessible only after doing a certain row of events some are alright if its Raid Stuff but dont overdo it or rather skip it entirely if you can. To collect Flag for this n that is getting pretty annoing and feels very timesinkish after awhile. Everyone should have a chance to beat Opponents if theyre able to without artificial Barriers. But they need to be strong enough or have superb Teamplay.
Forum posters disrespecting others cause they think im Anonymous i dont need good behavior nobody catches me anyway :) .
A rating System of Enemys i.E. Group mobs Solo Mobs it kinda took some fun away naturally there should be tougher mobs but let me feel or perceive theyre strenght dont make a Sewer Rat a Boss Monster just cause it has 3 Stars on its head if it is a Boss it should look like one or feel like one. Mutated Magic Giant Diseased Diamond Rat of Chaos Aura whatever make me see it hear it smell it feel it :) . Not just read it and thats what it is, here you go this Rat is a Boss with 1Million Hps the other rat which looks the same has 3 hps and dies if the Wind blows hard enough. Thats just annoying to me.
Too many quests that feel like a must do cause theyre rewards are just so awesome you cant skip it.
Questing being superior for lvling vs Exploring a Dungeon or camping a good respawn spot i allow quests i mean repeatable ones but make it balanced if i camp a spot with a group for xps i should get more xps per hour and better loot chances then doing a solo quest. Players always choose the way of the least resistance if you make one kind of Gameplay superior in rewards that what most will go for.
No Death Penalty or ignorable Death Penaltys.
No Race Bonuses i want to feel different not just by looks i like an impact for being a certain Race if i play a Giant i want to Feel Strong not just 1 more Starting strength if im a 20 feet tall Giant i should be stronger then a Halfling but there might be thing a Halfling is better at, just dont make some Bonuses overpowered balance it well with some understanding for the Game world Spells Stats and so on its pretty doable.
Item Decay, i hate it its just a Money Sink i prefer other methods then micromanaging my Inventorys Durability after 2 Hours and Summon Some Repairobot fromthe cash Shop or whatever it sucks.
Cash Shop
Not being able to share earned stuff between my Character on my Account. Since its bound to Character.
Having to Reflag or redo stupid Quests or other stuff each time i Create a New Character. Make my Avatar Soul account wide.
Lvl Restrictions on Items No Trade Bound stuff while i understand it affects Game Economy or low lvl Play i rather have a Stat Requirement i can just meet on a certain lvl maybe, but with enough cool stuff or being the right Race even earlier. Yoiu could add a lvl to wear estimation for more easiness.
Gold Sellers.
No lvl up Stats Increases.
Not being able to Allocate stats where i want them to.
Being able to easily Respec my stats.
Not being able to respec my stats ever but if i want to let it have some Impact like a certain in Game time the char needs to retrain them and a timesink quests to do it. After all it should be meaningfull where i allocate my stats.
Im Sure theres more but thats the gist of it for the Moment thanks for reading (or not reading) :) .
xtnpd said:Short Leashing of Mobs
It's funny, because I thought I'd love NOT having this in other games. But I miss it, too.
Im not against leashing per se but usualy i tried to pull togheter 10 Mobs and 8 leashed back right away when its so much fun to ae Nuke 10 at once ..which was one of my biggest problems with all the short leashes out there. I understand that a Zoneless game (if Pantheon should be Zoneless needs some kind of Leashing or deaggro mechanic just dont make it so crappy) it should feel real.
When all is said and done, it's okay to have quality of life improvements. From what I've seen, the developers have stated there will be no system which makes your progress obsolete by introducing a new gear level or set of dungeon items. There will likely be no token dungeon grinding at all. They've also stated that it's not unreasonable that casual players won't have the same things that hardcore players do. That is Okay. Cooperation will be necessary, and socialization will be necessary. It sounds like a game where the kind of class and race you play will in fact make a huge impact on how you experience the game. This to me is what defines the old school genre...if you can keep all that without time sinking people, unless they are in fact putting in the time on purpose then it should be exactly the kind of game we're all looking for.
With that said, one thing I do not want to see is a system that allows quick leveling...even at a later period in the games life. From the games I've played...expedient leveling has almost always been to the detriment of the player base because they are not forced to learn the game effectively over time. In FFXI when the veterans decided to leave and some of us stuck around a little longer...the player base just couldn't accomplish anything it seemed. Then the whining about difficulty started..then level caps were lifted and suddenly, before we knew it, the whole game became a casual MMO.
Simples said: Liav speaks some truth and it makes me laugh because I see a lot of eq leetest supporting this game, so that's the type of feedback you'll get. Old schoolers longing for the old school community with updated graphics and challenges. What a derailed topic
And yet it's zero secret that this game is a successor to EQ that will harken back to that style of MMO. Liav exaggerates his points. Most of the "eqleetest" here, myself included, will absolutely tell you all the crapp things about EQ and how we don't want a clone and how things need to evolve and change.
Complaining about others using absolutes, by using absolutes, doesn't seem very constructive to me(that isn't targed at you).
Zarriya said:Some games do include a simple forum function (SWTOR prerelease comes to my mind). And I think it is good for guilds that would like it. It is really great for guilds just starting and are not familiar with hosting guild websites.
For me personally: I am a co-leader of a guild but I would rather not use an forum hosted by the gaming company. Our style of guild communication is uncensored whether it be language (unless its outragous) or opinion (unless it is hurtful). If we used a gaming company's forums we would not have total freedom of speech. Also we would not be able to customize it the way we would like through looks and function. Some guilds that have experienced web designers have made some impressive websites! But it is tough for guild leaders just starting out and having an included forum would help those start-up guilds. It all depends on if it is worth it to have development resources spent on that or elsewhere in the game.
FFXIV has a LFG group like you described, I liked using it.
If guilds could have their own personal in game forum it would be great but, I never eluded that it would have to be moderated by VR. That wouldn't be a good idea and I'd be against it if this was the only way it was possible. I don't think you understood me by what I meant. I simply meant some type of tool in game that allowed for the creations of topics and replies within those. Guild management could set the permissions etc. It would have no use outside of the guild. Strictly internal. I don't see why VR would want to moderate something in your guild. That's silly.
I don't remember SWTOR having this. As a guild leader in WoW a while back, I found an add-on that did this in game. The probably was, it wasn't streamlines synchronization. It woul djust be nice to have it in game or at least better support in creating it.
I've just always despised having to host things outside of games, with the exception of VOIP of course. A lot of guilds do recruitment on their websites etc. Was just a thought to internalize guilds and the community as a whole. Who knows... It could a good feature or bad.. idk
One thing I really dont want to see is a "transmog" type of mechanic. I think your adventure gear should look only like it was intended, to combat everyone looking the same I'd say just have a large variety of viable gear for any particular class/level range.
I'm also against costume/rp gear that is not lore appropriate (no baseball hats, modern clothes/swimwear etc. (but I don't think there is a need to worry abut this in Pantheon at all :P)) I think rp gear should make you fit in with the game world. I also think it should replace your adventuring gear, not cover it up.
I would like rp gear having some affect on certain mechanics aswell, I really loved the Diplomacy idea in VG. Same thing with crafting gear, I like when crafting/harvesting has its own sets of gear that affected varying aspects of those game mechanic.
I would also like to see barbers/hairdressers in cities, changing your whole appearance isn't very realistic, but hair and facial hair isn't a static unchanging thing and it would be very nice to be able to change its styles (though there could be an argument for not being able to change its colour).
Rachael
@The whole Liav & Sevens argument,
This isn't about catering to everyone.. Anyone with abit of common sense knows that that's truely impossible because of the amount of diverse gamers out there.. and not only that but it's self diminishing to listen too much to you're fans... you need set goals like VR has "tenets". But to sort of understand where I'm coming from let me use this for an example.. (remember we are the minority with our play style with in mmos.)
So.. for example: Imagine an artist/designer that scupltures and carves the idea of his mmo into the form of a clay statue ready to fire.. if everyone could alter the statue a lil bit to leave their impact/say on the mmo/statue.. eventually the game/mmo; instead of looking like a beautiful statue.. it'll be just a ball of clay. Too much listening and standardising leaves no room for our way of playing or originality.
To hell with the listening & standards of modern mmos.. and I for one HOPE VR does NOT listen to the casual/anti-social crowd.. they've had their turn for the last 10 years or so and it's about bloody time we got a shot again! and it'll be up to VR to try their best to persuade them change their minds about our social gaming playstyle.
Nimryl said:@The whole Liav & Sevens argument,
This isn't about catering to everyone.. Anyone with abit of common sense knows that that's truely impossible because of the amount of diverse gamers out there.. and not only that but it's self diminishing to listen too much to you're fans... you need set goals like VR has "tenets". But to sort of understand where I'm coming from let me use this for an example.. (remember we are the minority with our play style with in mmos.)
So.. for example: Imagine an artist/designer that scupltures and carves the idea of his mmo into the form of a clay statue ready to fire.. if everyone could alter the statue a lil bit to leave their impact/say on the mmo/statue.. eventually the game/mmo; instead of looking like a beautiful statue.. it'll be just a ball of clay. Too much listening and standardising leaves no room for our way of playing or originality.
To hell with the listening & standards of modern mmos.. and I for one HOPE VR does NOT listen to the casual/anti-social crowd.. they've had their turn for the last 10 years or so and it's about bloody time we got a shot again! and it'll be up to VR to try their best to persuade them change their minds about our social gaming playstyle.
Hey, Im with you...I want the game VRI promised us with the launch of the first kickstarter. A return to the roots of MMORPG where both the MMO and RPG meant something. I dont want the modern convienences of modern MMOs in this game, UNLESS they improve upon the core concept, Work to promote social aspects or player interdependance. I want a virtual WORLD to live in and not just another video game to play....these are the whole points of all my post, nothing more that what I was promised
I don't want to see a weak death penalty. What is the correct penalty? Keep going until people don't suicide for travel. Keep making it worse until people don't wipe on a raid and all run back and jump back in to fight immediately (this shouldn't even be an option imo). Keep going until groups that wipe, actually bother to communicate what went wrong, how to correct it, give some instruction to the new person.
I don't want to see a mini-map. I think a map that you could improve/note things yourself, thru a skill, would be more than sufficient and truly exponentially more immersive. At most I would see a map view that shows your position.
I don't want to see instant travel, outside of a class spell. Imo I think the velious era (iirc) had the right approach with requiring those attunement items from the ground of a wizard spire, before you could be teleported there.
I don't want to see the class-balance-rotation, I would hope everyone has identified what was wrong in other games, specifically wow comes to mind, where dev's would constantly rotate which class got major buffs and which nerfs. IMO just decide your classes for the game, balance to the best of your ability before launch, and then only minor tweaks as needed. People will always complain, ignore them/us/all and do what is needed.
I don't want to see abilities overlap between classes, at least not significantly. The classes need a primary role definition, and they need to do that well. Kind of like AOE vs single target. A real tank will have a way to taunt mobs frequently (if not multiple). But another class that isn't a tank, might have an almost-suicide single taunt (a monk risking his life to pull a mob off the healer) with a long enough cooldown that they can't be a viable main tank. A real CC has stuns, multiple mezzes, confusion, roots, etc, but other classes might have a single root, or short duration root, a significant stun on a 5min cooldown for emergencies, etc.
I don't want to see punctuation marks or floating symbols above npc heads. I would hope most agree on that. WoW started the trend, or at least made it popular, and those features have lingered far too long.
IMO when deciding on a feature, just ask yourself does it contribute to creating a virtual world, or just another game.
Bottom Line: You guys got a following with the original promises. Yes, there were some issues with that start, but the niche crowd is there/here (if not the potential for something more). Keep up the good work and there will be more constructive/focused/better criticism with the alpha/betas when we know where to focus our attention ;) I'm sure all of us here will be trying the game regardless of what you do, but for the sake of those of us who put up the money based on the original ideas, I hope we are kept in mind.
I do not want to see an Autogroup tool. instead an Lfg tool that i can use to easily sort who is lfg by class, level, desired group location, and that would automatically discard the ppl on my ignore list. this would be useful. but i would have to contact an invite everyone manually.
I do not want to see Instanced dungeons or Linear ones. Dungeons should be large and alive. moving down a straight hallway killing things in small rooms off to the side until i reach the end of the hallway is not a dungeon. it should be like a maze and big enough that a few groups can all find spots to kill stuff without stepping on each others toes.
I do not want to see auction houses. That being said, if i could put items up for consignment sale in local stores where players have to visit the store to see the item and buy it from the merchant it would be nice. that way i could not waste play time trying to sell my unneeded loot or crafted goods.
I do not want to see Gear Inflation with every expansion. Gear inflation isnt something that we can totally get away from as everyone likes the feeling of getting that upgrade. but gear does not need to increase 10-20% in strength with every expansion either. maybe some expansions would release gear that isnt an upgrade but would be needed to deal with some of the new mechanics or mobs in that expansion. such as bane weapons or resistance gear. maybe the "Black flames of Justice" expansion would have gear that allows for negation of part of the black flame damage that would constantly happen in any of the raid zones for the expansion.
I do not want to see Clickie teleports to every city or town. If teleports exist at all maybe only between the biggest cities on each continent, and the fees for the TP should be restrictively high. other than that leave it to class abilities for travel, or maybe mounts.
I do not want to see Trivialized Crafting. I like to craft, but its usually useless for characters beyond the first few levels because group and raid gear is beyond superior. I am not saying to make crafted gear better or even exactly on par with raid gear (unless the crafting requires raid drops) but just usefull, like in VG i would use crafted gear to patch what i saw as holes or oversights in my raid gear or even to make situational sets for different situations.
I do not want to see Trolls / Gold-Spammers. we need to figure out some concrete methods to make goldsellers and trolls really hit hard when they get banned. personally i feel that IP banning is too easy to get around, maybe banning the credit card and all accounts attached to it simultaneously.
I do not want to see Item Durability.
I do not want to see Items staying on my corpse at death.
I do not want to see Corpse rotting.
I do not want to see loss of Class Distinction.
I do not want to see Class revamps. Nerfing an ability of a class or item is acceptable, but taking abilities away or completely changing the structure of a class mid game is totally not acceptable.
I do not want to see Static Spawn locations. let the monsters with good loot have a chance to spawn in any location in the dungeon.
I've seen a few people mention a distaste for item durability in recent weeks. I'm a little confused as to why this is. Do people mean they don't want items to become worn and need to be repaired or don't want items that will eventually break? I definitely don't want items to permanently break and need to be replaced, but I'm 100% for item durability where the item has to be repaired to continue being used. I think the need to repair your items is a great gold sink and also provides other players with a chance to work their trade by offering to repair items for donations. Its also very realistic.
Well I can't tell you why everyone else doesn't want to see it in game, but I can tell you why I don't. There are two ways I've seen this implemented, one as a death penalty and one where weapons and armor degrade with use. As a death penalty, it was just a money sink, it wasn't realistic and I often just found it annoying and occasionally caused me to have to leave a group to repair my gear. When games implement it as worn over time, it was always scaled, where better gear would cost more. What I end up doing, is if possible, I use no gear or crappy gear and basically my good gear sits in the bank, never to be used. Also this money sink effects tanks more than anyone else as a wizard isn't getting hit or auto attacking much. I believe Brad already said that there would be no item repair in game.
Yea, a tank may die more often than other players in groups.
But it's a small price to pay for getting groups faster than other classes, getting gear easier than other classes, and significantly reducing the odds of having a bad group by taking one of the primary roles into your own hands and not having to risk having a bad tank. Bad tank = smaller pulls, slower pulls, limiting which named mobs you can handle, or in some cases having a group disband entirely due to the player not being capable. "Sorry guys, I can't handle wiping anymore because of (tank)"
Liav said:Trustar said:Cheating, duping, and exploiting; it totally ruins an MMO.
I don't think anyone wants to see that, but it's really hard to prevent. Even with client-side anti-cheat software running alongside the client, things can be hard to detect.
It is really hard to prevent, but I would want VRI to take the harshest stand they can and really work hard to prevent it, especially by dedicating manpower. Nothing ruins a game more, when you are an honest hardworking player, than to see goldspaming, and to see and hear players get unfair advantages. Even worse when you know you have reported them and they are still running around.
geatz said:Well I can't tell you why everyone else doesn't want to see it in game, but I can tell you why I don't. There are two ways I've seen this implemented, one as a death penalty and one where weapons and armor degrade with use. As a death penalty, it was just a money sink, it wasn't realistic and I often just found it annoying and occasionally caused me to have to leave a group to repair my gear. When games implement it as worn over time, it was always scaled, where better gear would cost more. What I end up doing, is if possible, I use no gear or crappy gear and basically my good gear sits in the bank, never to be used. Also this money sink effects tanks more than anyone else as a wizard isn't getting hit or auto attacking much. I believe Brad already said that there would be no item repair in game.
I agree its not a good death penalty. As for ways to apply it to casters, it could totally be based on just engaging in combat and attacking rather than only being hit.
As for it scaling up, it makes sense if properly balanced. When done right, it should seem relatively the same at high levels and low levels based on higher earning potentials. If you gain 10x the amount of money from mobs and mundane items, the repair bill should scale at the same rate.
Oh well, unless Brad simply meant it in a context of death penalties, there won't be a system like this. I personally think that decision is a missed opportunity at both a way to improve the economy and encourage more player interaction by way of weapon and armor repair.
Dullahan said:geatz said:Well I can't tell you why everyone else doesn't want to see it in game, but I can tell you why I don't. There are two ways I've seen this implemented, one as a death penalty and one where weapons and armor degrade with use. As a death penalty, it was just a money sink, it wasn't realistic and I often just found it annoying and occasionally caused me to have to leave a group to repair my gear. When games implement it as worn over time, it was always scaled, where better gear would cost more. What I end up doing, is if possible, I use no gear or crappy gear and basically my good gear sits in the bank, never to be used. Also this money sink effects tanks more than anyone else as a wizard isn't getting hit or auto attacking much. I believe Brad already said that there would be no item repair in game.
I agree its not a good death penalty. As for ways to apply it to casters, it could totally be based on just engaging in combat and attacking rather than only being hit.
As for it scaling up, it makes sense if properly balanced. When done right, it should seem relatively the same at high levels and low levels based on higher earning potentials. If you gain 10x the amount of money from mobs and mundane items, the repair bill should scale at the same rate.
Oh well, unless Brad simply meant it in a context of death penalties, there won't be a system like this. I personally think that decision is a missed opportunity at both a way to improve the economy and encourage more player interaction by way of weapon and armor repair.
How would gear repair increase player interaction? If it's a money sink then an NPC would have to get the fee not a player. Repaired gear usually comes in the form of an armorer or weaponsmith that repairs your gear for a fee or you buy an item that does it. I'm not seeing any player interaction here. Maybe I'm missing something, but if players were responsible for repairing your gear, I would probably be okay with that, but now it's not a money sink, now it's just going from one player to another and at that point I would argue why even do it.