Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

What do you NOT want to see?

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    • 216 posts
    February 17, 2016 4:55 PM PST

    Lack of group agro management, tanking is the groups job not just the tanks. Stop that over healing and stop over nuking at the start of a fight!

    Also Lack of mana management, I really miss having to make a choice on using my heals intelligently and juggling the consequences of making mistakes, be it myself or companions standing in poop or not having their interrupts ready.

    These are the things I miss the most right now in the mmorpg market, and cannot wait to see them back.


    This post was edited by Kellie at February 17, 2016 4:57 PM PST
    • 96 posts
    February 17, 2016 5:04 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Dullahan said:

    That is because you are largely referring to convenience and accessibility as innovation. Those were the very things that changed EQ from a realistic virtual world full of danger and consequences to a themepark gear grind.

    Absolutely untrue and I guarantee you can't cite anything that falls in line with this point.

    Also, something innocuous like server firsts, a thread I've debated in recently, has absolutely nothing to do with themepark gear grinding.

    Dullahan said:

    It honestly doesn't sound like you have the discernment to tell the difference because you haven't played a first generation MMO when it was full of people, working as intended in a classic state. Its not meant as an insult, but when you spit venom at people who solicit oldschool mechanics, you respond as if you just can't comprehend why we feel the way we do and therefore assume its some sort of illogical plea based solely on nostalgia.

    Once again you're making a strawman of my argument, in addition to making assumptions about what I'm saying.

    I played EQ in early 2001 which is the tail end of what is considered its best era. I understand plenty about first generation MMOs and I don't appreciate you talking down to me as if I'm uninformed.

    The latter part of your paragraph is where you make a broad generalization that is a strawman of my position. There is a fundamental difference between rejecting oldschool mechanics as a whole (what I am not doing) and rejecting specific oldschool mechanics (what I am doing). There is value in both old and "new" school mechanics. I understand how everyone feels here because I feel largely the same way.

    What I see is an unreasonable resistance to any change, just for the sake of the fact that it is change. This is where **** gets ridiculous.

    TL;DR: I am standing dead center and looking at the merits of both "schools" of mechanics (old and new) whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by people who are married to the idea of any change being considered a negative without any consideration at all.

    I'm going to be optimistic and assume there are A LOT of us who are open to change and different things, so I hope you're wrong. Maybe it's just a case of we're all tired of games not falling into this niche and taking a total different approach?

    Change is okay and CAN be good, but when that change alters it so much that the core isn't valid anymore then that's bad in my opinion.

    • 2419 posts
    February 17, 2016 5:25 PM PST

    What do I not want to see?

    This.

    Think of the children....

    • 12 posts
    February 17, 2016 5:37 PM PST

    My "Please, No!" short list is

     

    No Instanced Zones, this is my #1 wish

    No clickie port ... I want a journey to be a journey ... unless your a prting class .. FInding a player porter is ok

    No item decay

     

    • 2130 posts
    February 17, 2016 6:41 PM PST

    Warlored said:

    I'm going to be optimistic and assume there are A LOT of us who are open to change and different things, so I hope you're wrong. Maybe it's just a case of we're all tired of games not falling into this niche and taking a total different approach?

    Change is okay and CAN be good, but when that change alters it so much that the core isn't valid anymore then that's bad in my opinion.

    Sure, I get it, people just seem to take it too far.

    I don't want a radically different approach, I just think some things can be done better. Instead, I get dismissed/insulted and it pisses me off.

    Very rarely do people say "oh, I don't like this particular detail, maybe we can do this instead". More often, it's "piss off you instant gratification kid, you just want to turn Pantheon into a themepark game! haha! go back to Wow!". Too busy jerking eachother off to actually have a discussion about something.

    • 1434 posts
    February 17, 2016 6:43 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Dullahan said:

    That is because you are largely referring to convenience and accessibility as innovation. Those were the very things that changed EQ from a realistic virtual world full of danger and consequences to a themepark gear grind.

    Absolutely untrue and I guarantee you can't cite anything that falls in line with this point.

    I'm sure you adamantly believe that I can't cite anything that proves this, but that is because your statements are made from a very different (and limited) perspective. I don't think you are trolling when you say things like 

    Liav said:You need to prove instancing "taints everything by nature".

    To me, its so black and white. Its like discussions about catering to soloing in a massively multiplayer game. I just don't see the need for it. On many occasions you have championed instancing and things that take the player out of the open game world. That is because you do not perceive a connection between things like instancing and other forms of convenience and the effect it has on a virtual world. I do. Many people here do as well.

    Liav said:Also, something innocuous like server firsts, a thread I've debated in recently, has absolutely nothing to do with themepark gear grinding.

    Dullahan said:

    It honestly doesn't sound like you have the discernment to tell the difference because you haven't played a first generation MMO when it was full of people, working as intended in a classic state. Its not meant as an insult, but when you spit venom at people who solicit oldschool mechanics, you respond as if you just can't comprehend why we feel the way we do and therefore assume its some sort of illogical plea based solely on nostalgia.

    Once again you're making a strawman of my argument, in addition to making assumptions about what I'm saying.

    I played EQ in early 2001 which is the tail end of what is considered its best era. I understand plenty about first generation MMOs and I don't appreciate you talking down to me as if I'm uninformed.

    Lets be honest, if you actually played EQ in 2001, you were 8 years old according to the age thread where you claimed to be 23. Not exactly an age of understanding. Furthermore, even having played a game as an adult does not mean you understand it. I've read books way beyond my level of comprehension. Sure, I could throw theories and philosophies around, name dropping and proving how well read I am, but people who actually understand those fields will clearly see the crater gap between my knowledge and my actual understanding.

    The latter part of your paragraph is where you make a broad generalization that is a strawman of my position. There is a fundamental difference between rejecting oldschool mechanics as a whole (what I am not doing) and rejecting specific oldschool mechanics (what I am doing). There is value in both old and "new" school mechanics. I understand how everyone feels here because I feel largely the same way.

    Do you know what a strawman is or is it something you just saw someone else say once? Have you not made broad-brush statements?

    In response to Krixus post on Defining the magic of EQ you said:

    Liav said:I could literally copy & paste this, swap "EQ" with "vanilla WoW", and get nearly identical responses from a much larger crowd, albeit likely not on this forum.

    TL;DR: Another post praising every single aspect of EQ as god-tier without even a passing mention of its flaws.

    The fact that you honestly believe that you could actually associate even half of his list with vanilla-WoW is very revealing.

    In this very thread:

    Liav said:Constant circlejerking about how every game made after the year 1999 is inferior.

    This forum is tainted by purists and it's disgusting. That's what I don't want to see.

    In what world am I not allowed to conclude that you believe our position is an illogical one based on emotion or nostalgia? And how am I somehow required to prove my general statement while you spout inflammatory generalized remarks about people who liked or disliked something without specifically addressing any one person or comment?

    What I see is an unreasonable resistance to any change, just for the sake of the fact that it is change. This is where **** gets ridiculous.

    TL;DR: I am standing dead center and looking at the merits of both "schools" of mechanics (old and new) whereas I feel like I'm surrounded by people who are married to the idea of any change being considered a negative without any consideration at all.

    I don't think there is anyone on this forum that has a problem with real innovation; and by that I mean no gimmicks, just new ways to enhance the gameplay we want to experience again. I don't see anyone up in arms about any of the new ideas that Pantheon has up on the tenets and features page. I feel like theres more true innovation there than on the features list of any MMO in the last decade - yet no one is complaining. How is that? That is because those innovative features aren't changing the underlying design, they only serve to expand on them.


    This post was edited by Dullahan at February 17, 2016 7:10 PM PST
    • 96 posts
    February 17, 2016 7:01 PM PST

    Liav said:

    Sure, I get it, people just seem to take it too far.

    I don't want a radically different approach, I just think some things can be done better. Instead, I get dismissed/insulted and it pisses me off.

    Very rarely do people say "oh, I don't like this particular detail, maybe we can do this instead". More often, it's "piss off you instant gratification kid, you just want to turn Pantheon into a themepark game! haha! go back to Wow!". Too busy jerking eachother off to actually have a discussion about something.

     

    I really don't understand why you're so aggressive. You've mentioned something about "jerking, or circle jerking" at least a couple times now. I don't get the hostility. What is it you don't like here? I mean it sort of seems like you don't even like the community here?


    This post was edited by Warlored at February 17, 2016 7:02 PM PST
    • 668 posts
    February 17, 2016 7:03 PM PST

    I took a break from the forums for a bit.  Came back to see "circle jerking" all over the place.  Have I been missing out?

    I don't think most of us old schoolers have an issue with modern influences at all.  We have spelled out in detail what our likes and dislikes are about our ideal game.  Outside of that, throw in any and all modern technology and make it cool.

    There is part of me that became very concerned lately if a game can really deliver to the point of capturing someone full-time in this modern era.  So much technology is at our fingertips that it literally can distract you from becoming fully involved in something long term.  Look at Twitch, check out all the games that are out there, it is mind blowing.  People skip around trying all these unfinished games (alpha or beta releases), max it out and then move on to something else.

    To finish answering the OPs original question, I don't want to see anything that takes away from a social environment or the ability to build lasting in-game friendships.  That is really hard to find these days.  Everyone, no matter what class, should have to rely on others to progress.  It should take communication as well, I prefer good old fashion typing as it does not distract from immersion as easily.

     

     

    • 2130 posts
    February 17, 2016 7:04 PM PST

    Redacted. **** these forums honestly, not worth the effort.


    This post was edited by Liav at February 17, 2016 7:06 PM PST
    • 366 posts
    February 17, 2016 8:59 PM PST

    Garmr said:

    So, what about you, what do you not want to see?

    All this fighting! So sorry your thread devolved Garmr, lets try to get it back on track.

     

    We all have different gaming backgrounds and we should all respect each other for it, not criticize them.  There is a lot we can learn from everyone's experience's so listen and be openminded. We can learn a lot from each other.  I learn which posters like to incite, and I simply do not interact with them.

     

    Nice picture Vandraad :)

     

    Some posters mentioned not wanting to see a group finder, and I mostly agree.  I saw when it was first imlemented  and was thrilled by the convenience, only to see what damage it has done in its wake. I do not mind a LFG tool - as long as it only helps you group up with people that are on your server. When it starts bringing in people from outside servers, then those people are basically "anonymous" and their reputations do not matter - they can do any foul action without consequence. So for me it would absolutley be no cross server group matching.

     

    Good Post Celandor.


    This post was edited by Zarriya at February 17, 2016 9:40 PM PST
    • 96 posts
    February 17, 2016 9:23 PM PST

    Zarriya said:

    Garmr said:

    So, what about you, what do you not want to see?

    All this fighting! So sorry your thread devolved Garmr, lets try to get it back on track.

     

    We all have different gaming backgrounds and we should all respect each other for it, not criticize them.  There is a lot we can learn from everyone's experience's so listen and be openminded. We can learn a lot from each other.  I learn which posters like to incite, and I simply do not interact with them.

     

    Nice picture Vandraad :)

     

    A lot of posters mentioned not wanting to see a group finder, and I mostly agree.  I saw when it was first imlemented  and was thrilled by the convenience, only to see what damage it has done in its wake. I do not mind a LFG tool - as long as it only helps you group up with people that are on your server. When it starts bringing in people from outside servers, then those people are basically "anonymous" and their reputations do not matter - they can do any foul action without consequence. So for me it would absolutly be no cross server group matching.

     

    Hiya Zarriya,

    I'm only offering my opinion. I think a LFG tool of sorts might be okay if it somehow still allowed for manual usage. Once you make it automated then you lose the social feel a bit. I guess you'd need to define the purpose of a LFG tool. If it's simply used to organize people into a party then maybe it would still function without any negative recourse.

    I just don't see the trouble in searching for a group, travelling around, putting effort into assembling one. Choosing a group the way you want to etc. instead of having it all done for you.

    My thoughts, nothing more ;)


    This post was edited by Warlored at February 17, 2016 9:24 PM PST
    • 132 posts
    February 17, 2016 9:37 PM PST

    I don't want Auction houses. a world wide auction channel and being able to mail COD would be fine. 

    I honestly don't really want corpse runs. I'd rather have exps loss with possible level loss. 

    No mounts on the Vanilla game. Save those for later expansion. 

    No dungeon finder. Assistance like a LFG box that requires talking to someone instead of a blind invite would be great. 

    Twitch combat. (wow / wildstar) 

    But the MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR ME is:

    Ignorant con system !   EQ1 had it right. don't "fix" what isn't broken. EQ2 con system was so so dumb. much hatred. 

    I am not against new ideas to bring some things into the modern world. There Are things I like about WoW, Rift, EQ1 and 2, SWTOR, Wildstar, etc. 

     

    PS:

    thought of One more thing: GAME DELAYS. Get to work! ;p I am READY TO PLAY! :) 

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Medjai at February 17, 2016 9:43 PM PST
    • 366 posts
    February 17, 2016 9:38 PM PST

    Warlored said:

    ...snip..

    Hiya Zarriya,

    I'm only offering my opinion. I think a LFG tool of sorts might be okay if it somehow still allowed for manual usage. Once you make it automated then you lose the social feel a bit. I guess you'd need to define the purpose of a LFG tool. If it's simply used to organize people into a party then maybe it would still function without any negative recourse.

    I just don't see the trouble in searching for a group, travelling around, putting effort into assembling one. Choosing a group the way you want to etc. instead of having it all done for you.

    My thoughts, nothing more ;)

    I do agree Warlored. After I saw what happened with elaborate group/dungeon finders I swore them off entirely, however I have seen success and would be open minded to LFG tools that are not cross server and do not transport. I could do without automation too.  I have played a couple of games in the past where it was simply a like a bulletin board and opportunity to invite responders manually. I feel they worked well.

    Thoughts and opinions are good :) 

    • 96 posts
    February 17, 2016 10:16 PM PST

    Zarriya,

    Ohh, a bulletin board of sorts sounds like a neat idea! Something you could fill in the blank and post with an invite to party or request invite button? It would also be nice when someone invites you vice versa, you get a brief outline of who they are, class/lvl etc.

    That actually sparked a recent thought I had. Why not included some sort of forum function too?

    I wondered why MMO's don't have some sort of built in forum etc. even if it is only for guilds. Why are we always forced to have guild hosting for things. Shouldn't they be internal? Thoughts?

    • 36 posts
    February 17, 2016 10:33 PM PST

    @Vandraad Ahh, my eyes!

    @OP This is a vague answer, but any conglomeration of things that leaves the game in a state where you not only have to "find the fun," but have to be in just the right mood, with other people in just the right mood, doing something spontaneous and pointless to have a laugh because you've seen and done every bit of available content until you're disgusted with it, so the only "fun" left in the game is tomfoolery. I do enjoy random things like that, and I have a ton of great memories from various MMOs that have little to do with the game itself. But when that's all that remains of the game, when you're only logging in because you feel compelled to for friendship or from habit, and just linger around waiting for something to do... that is what I don't want to see. It's like living in a world that goes from early winter to early spring and right back to early winter. It never dies, but it never fully comes to life. You feel a slow decay, lingering in exhausted, stale content, then have the hope of new life when a new expansion/major patch/episode/dlc is added, only to begin fading away again because it wasn't enough. I don't want to see Pantheon become a game where players sub for a month or two, then disappear for months. I hope for a game with a "just right" pace--slow enough to avoid the locust-swarm consumption of content, but quick enough that you can feel you've made progress or achieved a goal in some fashion. There isn't a particular feature or tool or mechanic that I never want to see, because the result depends on both the implementation and the playerbase. The overuse of an idea is, I think, more problematic than the idea itself.

    • 724 posts
    February 17, 2016 11:33 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    What do I not want to see?

    This.

    Think of the children....

    ...

    Ok I actually hope to see zones like that again (that's Butcherblock Mountains, isn't it?) :)

    What I don't want to see:

    - announcements like "LFM for dungeon xy, experienced people only" (really, its the same as asking for a gearscore)

    - "go go go" mentality

    - people who think they know everything about the zone/dungeon we're in (honestly, even if you think you know what's best, just stay open minded)

    - people who are jerks "because they can" (yeah reputation will help a bit against this, but will it be enough? Time will tell...)

    - open world content monopolized by single persons/guilds

     

    In short, what I want is a fun, relaxed gaming experience.

    • 781 posts
    February 18, 2016 12:04 AM PST

    I do not want to see this gaming generation disappear  :(  Man, we had it good didn't we ! :)

    • 1434 posts
    February 18, 2016 1:51 AM PST

    My list of 'things I don't want to see' revolve more around progression. I believe the key to making Pantheon great is in making the process longer yet more rewarding, and making the experience more of a cooperative effort and social. The following things are what I believe to be the most important in accomplishing that goal.

    I don't want to see the ability to progress faster solo or in a small group than in a large group. I think its of the utmost important for players to gain more experience from group content in their level range than from easier mobs in less dangerous areas. More than just some artificial exp bonus, I'd like to see stronger synergies between players and classes that together, unlock the ability to kill mobs that would otherwise be too challenging for an individual or small group of the same level. Likewise, I believe said mobs should yield better experience so that group content is a more desirable mode of leveling.

    I don't want to see my level increase daily. I want the process of leveling up to be something I have to work towards for months.

    I don't want to see large jumps in item power, especially from one expansion to the next. This hurts old content, and its replayability. I don't like how EQ made items from a new lower level area suddenly more powerful than items in a higher level area in a previous expansion. This has a way of making your previous achievements feel a little hollow.

     

     

    • 9115 posts
    February 18, 2016 2:03 AM PST

     

    I would encourage everyone to in future focus on the positives and things you would like to see or ideas for different ways of tweaking things you know will be in game as it will have a much bigger impact on development and a more positive vibe within the threads.

    You folks, are a fantastic community, no if's or but's about it, just be a little more tolerant of each others opinions, as they are just that, personal opinions, nothing more, nothing less, it doesn't mean because they posted their opinion in an online forum that now the game will include that opinion and the genre is doomed and the world will come to an end, it is just a freedom of expression, agree with it, disagree with it, ignore it or question it but please don't argue over opinions, it is not productive or helpful to us as a team at all.

    Please try to create positive threads and focus on what you do want to see or ideas that you have, rather than things you don't want to see that put people in a negative mindset as it often results in arguments breaking out and threads being closed and it provides no help to the dev team at all.

    This is not directed at Garmr or anyone specifically at all, it is just a general statement for everyone to read, whether it applies to you or not is irrelevant, so don't take offence, it is just a friendly reminder to think before you post and be a little more considerate/tolerant of other people's opinions, which for the most part, you are but a few could do with a little bit of work. ;)


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at February 18, 2016 2:04 AM PST
    • 393 posts
    February 18, 2016 2:47 AM PST

    Zarriya said:

    ... 

    Some posters mentioned not wanting to see a group finder, and I mostly agree.  I saw when it was first imlemented  and was thrilled by the convenience, only to see what damage it has done in its wake. I do not mind a LFG tool - as long as it only helps you group up with people that are on your server. When it starts bringing in people from outside servers, then those people are basically "anonymous" and their reputations do not matter - they can do any foul action without consequence. So for me it would absolutley be no cross server group matching.

     

    Good Post Celandor.

    I'm not completely certain that the creation of the LFG tool is the singular problem to a decline in sustained relationships and the overall lack of social continuity that we see in modern gaming titles. However, I can't say that it hasn't contributed to the phenomenon either. So I agree with you there. I believe it has added to a growing social disconnect in gaming (ironic since it's intent is to get people together); it's only operative function culminates in the completion of brief content and players then move on to other things. There is a time investment that appears to be incongruent with the overall goal or task stucture for the playerbase ("I only need you guys to get this boss, them I'm out yolo!"). In many cases, the group requirement is seen as only necessary to accopmlish ephemeral content and move on to material that is readily accomplished through solo endeavors and has sparse investment for others. This is the current benchmark of social gaming activity outside of guild or raid or large scale PvP content. It's frustrating.  It's such a reflection of the real world social dynamic. Now it's infuriating.

    • 610 posts
    February 18, 2016 3:05 AM PST

    Kellie said:

    Lack of group agro management, tanking is the groups job not just the tanks. Stop that over healing and stop over nuking at the start of a fight!

    Also Lack of mana management, I really miss having to make a choice on using my heals intelligently and juggling the consequences of making mistakes, be it myself or companions standing in poop or not having their interrupts ready.

    These are the things I miss the most right now in the mmorpg market, and cannot wait to see them back.

    I could not agree more on the group agro managment...Agro really should be everyones job, The tank should be busting his butt to keep it and everyone else should be busting butt not to take it.

    • 1434 posts
    February 18, 2016 6:09 AM PST

    Sevens said:

    Kellie said:

    Lack of group agro management, tanking is the groups job not just the tanks. Stop that over healing and stop over nuking at the start of a fight!

    Also Lack of mana management, I really miss having to make a choice on using my heals intelligently and juggling the consequences of making mistakes, be it myself or companions standing in poop or not having their interrupts ready.

    These are the things I miss the most right now in the mmorpg market, and cannot wait to see them back.

    I could not agree more on the group agro managment...Agro really should be everyones job, The tank should be busting his butt to keep it and everyone else should be busting butt not to take it.

    +1 for lack of a Like button.

    • 109 posts
    February 18, 2016 6:17 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

     

     

    This is not directed at Garmr or anyone specifically at all, it is just a general statement for everyone to read, whether it applies to you or not is irrelevant, so don't take offence.

     

    None taken. This thread certainly wasn't an attempt to "stir things up", more of an attempt to look at what we are envisioning from the other side of the coin. We can sit and talk about what we want all day but I find it helpful to also look at the things from the past we don't want to see again. I use this method in daily life (read work) for root cause analysis etc. Looking at things with different perspective often brings up things that may be missed.

    I'm personally not opposed to new innovations in games and don't expect an EQ clone with shiny new clothes. There are some good things that have come about in mmo's over the last decade, my aim was simply to point out things "I" felt didnt work for "me" and wanted to hear others opinions.

    • 9115 posts
    February 18, 2016 7:15 AM PST

    Garmr said:

    Kilsin said:

     

     

    This is not directed at Garmr or anyone specifically at all, it is just a general statement for everyone to read, whether it applies to you or not is irrelevant, so don't take offence.

     

    None taken. This thread certainly wasn't an attempt to "stir things up", more of an attempt to look at what we are envisioning from the other side of the coin. We can sit and talk about what we want all day but I find it helpful to also look at the things from the past we don't want to see again. I use this method in daily life (read work) for root cause analysis etc. Looking at things with different perspective often brings up things that may be missed.

    I'm personally not opposed to new innovations in games and don't expect an EQ clone with shiny new clothes. There are some good things that have come about in mmo's over the last decade, my aim was simply to point out things "I" felt didnt work for "me" and wanted to hear others opinions.

    Yeah, absolutely man and we have learned from all of those past mistakes and lessons, the team is interested in what does work and what you folks want to see, what ideas you have! We have seen some great stuff over the course of development and we have used a lot of it in the creation of Pantheon, and while constructive criticism has its place, the threads that focus on what people don't want, usually end up pretty negative.

    But again, it's nothing against you man, I understand you didn't mean it in a bad way and it's fine to discuss, it was just a friendly FYI for everyone reading for future posts as we get more feedback that we can use from the positive stuff, rather than the negative stuff :)

    • 366 posts
    February 18, 2016 7:20 AM PST

    Warlored said:

    Zarriya,

    Ohh, a bulletin board of sorts sounds like a neat idea! Something you could fill in the blank and post with an invite to party or request invite button? It would also be nice when someone invites you vice versa, you get a brief outline of who they are, class/lvl etc.

    That actually sparked a recent thought I had. Why not included some sort of forum function too?

    I wondered why MMO's don't have some sort of built in forum etc. even if it is only for guilds. Why are we always forced to have guild hosting for things. Shouldn't they be internal? Thoughts?

    Some games do include a simple forum function (SWTOR prerelease comes to my mind). And I think it is good for guilds that would like it. It is really great for guilds just starting and are not familiar with hosting guild websites.

    For me personally: I am a co-leader of a guild but I would rather not use an forum hosted by the gaming company. Our style of guild communication is uncensored whether it be language  (unless its outragous) or opinion (unless it is hurtful).  If we used a gaming company's forums we would not have total freedom of speech. Also we would not be able to customize it the way we would like through looks and function. Some guilds that have experienced web designers have made some impressive websites! But it is tough for guild leaders just starting out and having an included forum would help those start-up guilds. It all depends on if it is worth it to have development resources spent on that or elsewhere in the game.

    FFXIV has a LFG group like you described, I liked using it.

    OakKnower said:

    ..snip..

    I'm not completely certain that the creation of the LFG tool is the singular problem to a decline in sustained relationships and the overall lack of social continuity that we see in modern gaming titles. However, I can't say that it hasn't contributed to the phenomenon either. So I agree with you there. I believe it has added to a growing social disconnect in gaming (ironic since it's intent is to get people together); it's only operative function culminates in the completion of brief content and players then move on to other things. There is a time investment that appears to be incongruent with the overall goal or task stucture for the playerbase ("I only need you guys to get this boss, them I'm out yolo!"). In many cases, the group requirement is seen as only necessary to accopmlish ephemeral content and move on to material that is readily accomplished through solo endeavors and has sparse investment for others. This is the current benchmark of social gaming activity outside of guild or raid or large scale PvP content. It's frustrating.  It's such a reflection of the real world social dynamic. Now it's infuriating.

    I agree that a dungeon/group finder wasn't the sole reason for social decline either, I am sorry if I inferred that. I feel as you do, it is a reflection of the RW. What I hope is that this game continues to advertise as  "intensely social game play" and it will attract those of us seeking it, and convert those that have not experienced it over to a more social way of gaming.


    This post was edited by Zarriya at February 18, 2016 7:33 AM PST