Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Toxic players

    • 1428 posts
    September 10, 2019 9:23 AM PDT

    Percipiens said:

    This follows the same thinking. I would disagree with you here stellar, but only slightly. I think politics is primarily about control, with deception used as a manipulation tactic to achieve that control. I think that's what drives a good many of the toxic types we see, them trying to control our experience in game however they think they can. 

    Sometimes people are seen as toxic when they're actually just ignorant. I remember once in EQ being on a random island out in the ocean, just wandering around and exporing. I ran into a hill giant rather unexpectedly and tried to fight it (yeah, that didn't end very well). There was a higher level druid there standing off healing me, trying to be nice. Well, I died and headed to the boat to try and get my corpse back. What I didn't know was the druid died, as well. I started getting tells from the druid blasting me for abandoning him/her. Apparently the giant squished them after me. I was fairly new to the game and genre and didn't know any better. The druid saw me as toxic and a jerk and I thought they were overreacting just a tad. 

    Sorry Kilsin, I know this went a little long but wanted to show these. To answer your question, depending on the rep and the player, I'd probably try to be nice, at least at first, and try to help them. It's the repeated behaviors and disregard for others that will get someone ignored and blacklisted in my book.

    As an aside, with all the first-person shooters and king-of-the-hill type games that we've had for the last few years, we might see some of that carry over into Pantheon. Just something to keep in mind.

     

    so the appropriate game for politics would be chess then :o  setup control of the board then at some point, probably turn 5 if both sides are really good, things are more pokerish at that point.

    lol your story reminds me of a druid i use to play with back in classic wow(not this money grab they are going for).  we were probably a top 5 pvp guild at the time, but anyways, this druid named glaise i think we were on stormhammer server?  he was godly good and very toxic to most.

    i digress, if that druid you encounter blasted you, something akin to, 'hey you bleep bleep bleep bleep moron you can't pull a giant bleep bleep if you're going to attempt it stop being a bleep clicker and keybind your bleep so you can kite that bleep.  that gives you an extra bleep 15 secs of dps while avoiding damage and if you bleep had potions you wouldn't have died like a little bleep and you wouldn't have needed my help'  oh and he probably wouldn't die if it was the druid i knew.

    even though his delievery can be viewed as toxic, the druid just gave you extremely valuable feedback.  eh maybe i'm blind to language due to my military experiences, afterall, it's just words and humans say alot of things they don't mean so it's up to them, if they can respect one another enough, to understand what they are saying.

    • 239 posts
    September 10, 2019 9:42 AM PDT
    This term " toxic " can apply to anything. Everyone can be toxic or offensive to anyone. It is a word that is used widely and often but not one that should just be ignored.
    Verbal toxicity is best just /ignored.
    Actions that are toxic should also just be ignored unless the player is breaking a rule in the game. At that time the best a player could do is /report and hope VR takes care of their product properly.
    • 193 posts
    September 10, 2019 1:24 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    *snip*

    even though his delievery can be viewed as toxic, the druid just gave you extremely valuable feedback.  eh maybe i'm blind to language due to my military experiences, afterall, it's just words and humans say alot of things they don't mean so it's up to them, if they can respect one another enough, to understand what they are saying.

    Yeah, this was kinda my point earlier. Toxic can be taken as such, but sometimes if you talk to people you'll see it's just because they don't know, like I didn't. Communication can go a long way toward filtering out what really is and isn't toxic.

    • 1428 posts
    September 10, 2019 1:43 PM PDT

    Percipiens said:

    stellarmind said:

    *snip*

    even though his delievery can be viewed as toxic, the druid just gave you extremely valuable feedback.  eh maybe i'm blind to language due to my military experiences, afterall, it's just words and humans say alot of things they don't mean so it's up to them, if they can respect one another enough, to understand what they are saying.

    Yeah, this was kinda my point earlier. Toxic can be taken as such, but sometimes if you talk to people you'll see it's just because they don't know, like I didn't. Communication can go a long way toward filtering out what really is and isn't toxic.

    kk i gotchu.

    i understand, you understand, we understand that druids are toxic, but know everything.

    forgot disclaimer:  this is satire.  i love druids players even though they are the most elitist from my experience, i've learn the most from them.


    This post was edited by NoJuiceViscosity at September 10, 2019 1:54 PM PDT
    • 521 posts
    September 10, 2019 4:37 PM PDT

    In my opinion, This thread has highlighted the necessity to establish specific guidelines for what is considered toxic behavior, since its apparent there’s a wide range of elements people are labeling as toxic.

    • 1399 posts
    September 10, 2019 6:01 PM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    In my opinion, This thread has highlighted the necessity to establish specific guidelines for what is considered toxic behavior, since its apparent there’s a wide range of elements people are labeling as toxic.

    That would be opening a BIG'ol can of worms.

    For example I think Obviously "Kill Stealing" would be one of the things labeled toxic.

    Now you gotta define "Kill stealing" I know of three definitions without even thinking on it.

    1) you have tagged a mob and somebody out DPS's you and gets the kill. (In a most damage game)

    2) you tag one of a group and as theyre heading your way somebody tags one of the adds. 

    3) you hold a "camp" in a dungeon that you define as "these 5 mobs" and somebody else defines as "those 4 mobs" and pulls the disputed 5th mob.

    #'s 1&2 maybe the other player was thinking they were helping, saving your life. #3 there's enough for everyone. 

    To define Toxic beyond what is already defined could be a mess... that's likely why we are where we are... asking Kilsin "what do you mean by Toxic?" (where I was before we got that great demo)

    • 1399 posts
    September 10, 2019 6:03 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    P.S. I'm not grumpy!!! :D

    Hmmm.....

    Anyone ever seen a jolly dude use three !'s before?

    • 3016 posts
    September 10, 2019 8:45 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Thread cleaned up - some good posts got nuked due to quotes, sorry guys! I appreciate those who kept it civil.

    Edited Zorkon's post as it was the last one left and was reasonable thinking to bring the thread back on topic.


    Please don't demonstrate toxic behaviour in my thread asking how you deal with it!



    P.S. I'm not grumpy!!! :D

     

    Nope you're just the Dream Crusher ...*grins* and teleports! hehehe

     

    Cana

    • 9115 posts
    September 10, 2019 8:47 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Kilsin said:

    P.S. I'm not grumpy!!! :D

    Hmmm.....

    Anyone ever seen a jolly dude use three !'s before?

    Uh oh...I always overdo them haha :P

    • 9115 posts
    September 10, 2019 8:48 PM PDT

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Kilsin said:

    Thread cleaned up - some good posts got nuked due to quotes, sorry guys! I appreciate those who kept it civil.

    Edited Zorkon's post as it was the last one left and was reasonable thinking to bring the thread back on topic.


    Please don't demonstrate toxic behaviour in my thread asking how you deal with it!



    P.S. I'm not grumpy!!! :D

     

    Nope you're just the Dream Crusher ...*grins* and teleports! hehehe

     

    Cana



    Hahaha my oldest and most loved title :D

    • 2756 posts
    September 11, 2019 1:57 AM PDT

    Someone mentioned earlier that having a "difference of opinion" is not toxic and you need to grow up and realise people will say things you don't agree with.

    I have to say, though, that in-game chat is not the place to bring your RL opinions and, if you do, you should be prepared to stop if someone doesn't want it.

    In WoW Classic I got called a snowflake and much worse when I got sick of the political discussion spamming the general channel and asked them to quit.  It's an RP server, also, so even the general channel, from what I can find in the official rules, is supposed to remain game related.

    It may not always *be* toxic to parade your RL opinions, but it surely does provoke toxicity and some people know that very well and do it intentionally.

    I would *much* prefer guidance that in-game chat is to be game-related.  I would *much* prefer if there were clearly defined channels for off-topic and other common purposes so that people can be politely directed to them and others can avoid them.

    This is exactly the kind of thing where 'community policing' will not and does not work.  Anyone who doesn't want to get spammed and wants the common channels to remain useful will get called 'chat nazis' and the like and be ignored or worse.

    There's a very good reason places like this forum have distinct areas and are moderated.  If in game chat isn't given similar treatment it will become as useless and toxic as a forum would without those controls.


    This post was edited by disposalist at September 11, 2019 1:58 AM PDT
    • 521 posts
    September 11, 2019 4:59 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    In my opinion, This thread has highlighted the necessity to establish specific guidelines for what is considered toxic behavior, since its apparent there’s a wide range of elements people are labeling as toxic.

    That would be opening a BIG'ol can of worms.

    For example I think Obviously "Kill Stealing" would be one of the things labeled toxic.

    Now you gotta define "Kill stealing" I know of three definitions without even thinking on it.

    1) you have tagged a mob and somebody out DPS's you and gets the kill. (In a most damage game)

    2) you tag one of a group and as theyre heading your way somebody tags one of the adds. 

    3) you hold a "camp" in a dungeon that you define as "these 5 mobs" and somebody else defines as "those 4 mobs" and pulls the disputed 5th mob.

    #'s 1&2 maybe the other player was thinking they were helping, saving your life. #3 there's enough for everyone. 

    To define Toxic beyond what is already defined could be a mess... that's likely why we are where we are... asking Kilsin "what do you mean by Toxic?" (where I was before we got that great demo)

     

    Thats exactly the point in having a FAQ with a Term defined that includes behaviors that would fall under it. Your example of “kill stealing” further proves we've become to sensitive and need guidance.

    A player can feel however they want about (insert topic), but when a company sets a standard thats the only definition that matters. I personally feel multi-boxing is cheating, but I would be wasting my time with /report when I know my definition doesn't align in this case.

    • 696 posts
    September 11, 2019 7:47 AM PDT

    Toxic behavior is such a subjective term. How about the developers just give us the tools to deal with it..like the ignore function.Oh it is already there...then that settles it lol.

    • 168 posts
    September 11, 2019 11:26 AM PDT

    You know what you should do! ... send a notification to the player that they have been reported whenever someone reports them ... It is one thing to hear someone say they reported you, it is another for the system to tell you a report has been filed against you.  Threaten jury duty and that will straighten them all up!

    • 14 posts
    September 18, 2019 5:21 PM PDT

    /report etc... is very hard with Toxic players.  Because even the Toxic players start to abuse the system to be Toxic.  While I find it best to put them on ignore and just move on about it, I have noticed an increase in Toxic players these days in all kinds of games.  Also /report is only good if the said company plans to invest the appropiate amount of $$ in the system and enforcement.  That is a very tough balancing act, that I have yet to see done well.  Best of luck!


    This post was edited by Bikmer at September 18, 2019 5:22 PM PDT
    • 801 posts
    September 18, 2019 7:06 PM PDT

    WOW classic redo, is one of the most toxic places anyone can be in. The N bomb is being used like its a 2nd language... I personally dont care for it, and i just report.

    • 1399 posts
    September 18, 2019 8:26 PM PDT

    Crazzie said:

    WOW classic redo, is one of the most toxic places anyone can be in. The N bomb is being used like its a 2nd language... I personally dont care for it, and i just report.

    I would think some things could automatically /report.

    • 26 posts
    September 19, 2019 7:13 AM PDT

    am a Toxic Player!

    • 2756 posts
    September 19, 2019 7:41 AM PDT

    Crazzie said:

    WOW classic redo, is one of the most toxic places anyone can be in. The N bomb is being used like its a 2nd language... I personally dont care for it, and i just report.

    It's not too bad in the RP server.  I always go to the RP server - it seems to attract a more mature audience or something.

    • 125 posts
    September 20, 2019 11:15 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Have you ever encountered a toxic player in an MMORPG and if so how did you deal with the situation? :)

    Start with /ignore, then if it gets to camp griefing I’ll /anon and find a new spot. If they start making alts and spamming me I’ll report.

    I do my absolute best to try not to reason with them, 90% of the time you just end up frustrated and stooping to their level.

    • 124 posts
    September 21, 2019 11:40 AM PDT

    I'm pretty sure others have stated this (I didn't read through all of the responses to the topic), but these kind of people are relatively easy to deal with in a game that has EQ as it's inspiration.

    Ultimately, when you rely on groups to experience a large proportion of the content of the game, the community will simply filter them out, eventually. Seeing toxic players sitting at the entrance to a dungeon trying to find groups with no luck due to their poor reputation was a beautiful thing to behold.

    Unfortunately, to reach that scenario, there needs to be initial exposure to their toxicity in order for the community to know they should be avoided.


    This post was edited by Shadowbound at September 21, 2019 11:40 AM PDT
    • 752 posts
    September 25, 2019 8:21 AM PDT
    Just for clarification not all trolls are toxic, but all toxic players are trolls?
    • 2756 posts
    September 25, 2019 9:16 AM PDT

    kreed99 said: Just for clarification not all trolls are toxic, but all toxic players are trolls?

    Isn't it the other way around?  Hehe

    As far as I'm concerned, a 'toxic' player is someone who 'poisons' the atmosphere with their words or actions or both.  There are lots of ways to do that, but we all know some people just thrive on making things unpleasant for everyone else and illiciting a reaction for attention.

    For example, people swear.  I don't mind a bit of well-placed and justified swearing.  Someone who constantly swears unnecessarily even though they know it is offending some people and have been asked to stop?  Toxic.

    • 1428 posts
    September 25, 2019 10:18 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    kreed99 said: Just for clarification not all trolls are toxic, but all toxic players are trolls?

    Isn't it the other way around?  Hehe

    As far as I'm concerned, a 'toxic' player is someone who 'poisons' the atmosphere with their words or actions or both.  There are lots of ways to do that, but we all know some people just thrive on making things unpleasant for everyone else and illiciting a reaction for attention.

    For example, people swear.  I don't mind a bit of well-placed and justified swearing.  Someone who constantly swears unnecessarily even though they know it is offending some people and have been asked to stop?  Toxic.

    i once told my drill sergeant that he was being toxic.

    he decided to be a nice guy and started making sugar cookies.

    (satire i'd never tell my drill sergeant he's toxic he'd probably start a barbecue on the smoke pit.  well i'd volunteer to help out XD)

    some people have bad mouths, but are geniunely good people.  sometimes language lacks the meaning one is attempting to convey.  i find it difficult to fault one for word choices.  our enviroment influences our language, but not what we mean.

    i once had a conversation with a biochemist venting about how it's frustrating for him to talk to 'average' people because he's using language even above my comprehension(i frequently asked him what the words meant).  i told him maybe because you speak too eloquently that people think you are insulting their intelligence by using big words.  he's like, but that is how i converse on a daily basis with my associates.  why do i have to convert my word into mundane descriptions(something like this i think)

     

    anyways, i don't know where i'm going with this story so i'll stop XD

    • 2756 posts
    September 25, 2019 3:21 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    disposalist said:

    kreed99 said: Just for clarification not all trolls are toxic, but all toxic players are trolls?

    Isn't it the other way around?  Hehe

    As far as I'm concerned, a 'toxic' player is someone who 'poisons' the atmosphere with their words or actions or both.  There are lots of ways to do that, but we all know some people just thrive on making things unpleasant for everyone else and illiciting a reaction for attention.

    For example, people swear.  I don't mind a bit of well-placed and justified swearing.  Someone who constantly swears unnecessarily even though they know it is offending some people and have been asked to stop?  Toxic.

    i once told my drill sergeant that he was being toxic.

    he decided to be a nice guy and started making sugar cookies.

    (satire i'd never tell my drill sergeant he's toxic he'd probably start a barbecue on the smoke pit.  well i'd volunteer to help out XD)

    some people have bad mouths, but are geniunely good people.  sometimes language lacks the meaning one is attempting to convey.  i find it difficult to fault one for word choices.  our enviroment influences our language, but not what we mean.

    i once had a conversation with a biochemist venting about how it's frustrating for him to talk to 'average' people because he's using language even above my comprehension(i frequently asked him what the words meant).  i told him maybe because you speak too eloquently that people think you are insulting their intelligence by using big words.  he's like, but that is how i converse on a daily basis with my associates.  why do i have to convert my word into mundane descriptions(something like this i think)

    anyways, i don't know where i'm going with this story so i'll stop XD

    Hehe I think I understand your point, SM.  The drill sergaent is a good example though.  His choice of language in his place of work was almost certainly entirely different to what he used in other places.  If he went to a nice quiet spa and continued to shout obsenities, however 'motivational' it might be to his troops, he could well be considered toxic by those trying to have a quiet pedicure, especially if it were intentional.  He would ruin it for everyone.

    The biochemist is actually similar and highlights what I believe your point to be.  His behaviour could be toxic if, by persisting in his way of talking, he made everyone else feel awkward and insulted, but is that his fault or theirs or no ones?  And who decides?  And did he *know* people were upset?  And was he asked to stop?  And did he carry on regardless?  And was that reasonable?  Etc etc.

    The thing is, I think there are a lot of very easy to identify toxic behaviours in public chat and we know very well what they are.  The important part, I suppose, is some people, when asked to stop swearing or not make racist remarks or not be overtly sexual or not tell sick jokes or stop political arguments or any number of things we know very well are unpleasant or likely to cause unpleasantness, will not stop and it will probably make them worse.  These people are toxic.  Sorry, but they are.  No amount of going on about free speech and freedoms and snowflakes and carebears or whatever excuses it.

    Normal decent people moderate their behaviour, especially in public, so as not to offend/upset/disturb or otherwise be unpleasant *needlessly*.

    To be clear, I do all of the above 'rude' things if I can get away with it.  With people who have come to know me it's usually fine.  In public it's usually not.  If I do it in public and someone asks me to stop I generally will, because it costs me nothing.

    If I find myself somewhere where I can't be myself and everyone else doesn't appreciate me, I go elsewhere, I don't try and bend everyone else to my will and give them a hard time.  I might try and quietly corrupt them until they start thinking my way, but I sure don't make myself toxic if I can help it.

    *shrug* And here I am being overtly opinionated and possibly offending people in a public place!  Doh!  ;^)