Forums » The Ranger

My revised ranger wishlist

    • 134 posts
    December 18, 2015 10:55 AM PST

    Hey guys, so I was engaging in the other ranger wishlist thread, but I didn't want to post this in Linkamus' thread and look like I was saying "oh yeah, well here's what I want!"  I think my desire for the class has changed quite a bit over the past few weeks, so I thought I'd go about expanding on the dev blurb about rangers with my own desires. They write:

    In untamed regions, the Ranger is a versatile and ferocious warrior, united with the land and animals he communes with.


    So in EQ, rangers were basically a warrior mashed up with a druid, and this blurb sounds like they might go that direction again. However, I think there's more that can expanded from this blurb, so here's what my wishlist for rangers would be:

    Overall, they should play a "scout and trap" role. They should be able to DPS, pull, and track very well. I'd love to see camoflauge implemented in this game a bit differently than a simple invis spell. Maybe it could be set up in a way that makes rangers equally effective in pulling as monks became in EQ with feign death. I'd love the ranger to slip out away from the group, and use tricks and traps to lure mobs back to the group, using camo and traps to split mobs up. Where the monk would be superior melee DPS to the ranger, the ranger would be superior bow DPS. Perhaps when in a forest, the ranger could have a slight DPS buff compared to other enviroments since they commune with nature. I think I'd like to see rangers move away from casting in this game, doing it in a minimal capacity. Most of their "extra" utility and DPS could come from building and deploying various traps. The ranger can put down a snare trap or a poison DOT trap, and then the tank drags the mob over it. Of the spells the ranger can cast, I'd like them to be nature based ones. I'd REALLY like to see the warg abilities return in this game, like wolf form in classic EQ. Extra DPS through haste and DEX boost while a wolf, but only for 1 minute and on a 45 minute-1 hour cooldown or such. I'd also like to see rangers able to warg different animals at higher levels (tigers, jaguars, maybe even a bear at some point). These would be discipline like abilities intended to give an edge every once in a while, but would not be used in every battle due to the cooldown. So with that said, here's my proposed ranger ability breakdown:

    For sure races: Humans, Halflings, Elves
    Maybe races: Dark Myr, Skar

    HP: Not as good as tanks, on par with rogue and monk.
    Mana: Really not much, but some.
    Melee DPS: Pretty good, but not nearly as good as rogue or monk. All 1 handers and 2 handers should be fair game, along with duel wield. If the ranger uses 2hander, it should be at the expense of using a bow. It seems silly to have both a bow and a greatsword hanging on your back. Two daggers/shortswords at the waist on the other hand fit quite well while carrying a bow.
    Kick DPS: Nowhere close to a monk, but since rangers are swift, they should be able to perform at least some kicks. It'd be nice to see some more advanced kicks than just "kick," but again not everything a monk can do.
    Bow DPS: Best in the game. I'd love to see bow combat like Lars Anderson in this class. A pipe dream would be Elder Scrolls (Skyrim, Oblivion etc) series combat where you need to aim the bow, with Anderson style 3-4 arrows in your draw hand at a time for quick burst DPS, then reload 3-4 more arrows. No range limit on archery, but increased aggro the closer you are, less damage the further you are. This might not be feasible, but would be awesome if so.

    Primary Stats: Dex and Agi. They're nimble warriors, better at dealing damage than taking it.
    Armor Type: Honestly, I like the idea where this is slot specific. Leather makes the most sense, but most images of ranger and archer iconography have the ranger wearing light or no vambraces/bracers, but their chestpiece is everything from leather to chainmail, and even plate. If they're going the "every class has a defined armor" route, leather makes more sense than chain to be honest, but either is fine.

    Warg: 1 hour cooldown. Level 20: Wolf ; Level 30: Hawk ; Level 40: Mountain Lion ; Level 50: Bear. Each warg would have various pros and cons, and I don't think for example bear should be innately better than wolf in all circumstances. Maybe you could put AA to boost the various wargs, and different ones play well in different enviroments. Maybe Hawk is less about DPS, and more about scouting ahead to look for various mobs, and bear is about off tanking in an emergency for example.

    Tracking: Similar to EQ but maybe they can think of a way to make it a little more immersive. 

    Camo: Less an all around invis spell, and more similar to FD. Maybe you need to stay still for a 100% camo, and become slightly more visible the faster you move (so still an 80% invis if sneaking for example). Good for splitting or saving your ass when trying to get to friends. Maybe you get better at camo with each level, unlocking the 100% camo while standing still at a higher level.

    Traps: Many and varied, most are physical traps and a select few magic traps. Examples include a snare trap, root trap, poison trap, explosive mine trap, etc. These would require active groupwork to pull off, because the mob needs to be pathed over them once set. If the mob dies and the trap isn't used, maybe the ranger can pick it up and re-uses it if it's a physical trap.

    Healing: Little or none. Maybe a light regen spell, but while EQ rangers could heal lightly, I'm not sure it really fits the class from an overall lore standpoint.

    Nukes and DoTs: Again, little or none in the magic form. If this class can do these things, it should come from traps.

    AoE damage: again, basically none unless it comes in the form of A) an AoE trap or B) Hail of Arrows or a similar ability.

    Swimming: I think rangers should be above average swimmers. I don't think they should have EB or anything, but they should get a class bonus to swimming. Afterall, they are the scouts who commune with their enviroment!

    Pets: This one I'm not sure either way on. It'd be cool if they can charm forest animals, but maybe that's treading on OP territory. I don't think it's worth putting weak pets into the game "for the sake of having them," but if the pets are too strong, the other forms of ranger DPS will get nerfed as a result. I think I'd rather see spells like harmony that mez animals in place than the ability to take one on as a pet. I think the Warg ability is much cooler and easier to balance anyhow.

    Running and Run Buffs: Rangers should be quick on their feet. Of the few spells they have, Spirit of the Wolf and its like should be one of them. 

    Mounts: I feel like rangers should be able to easily ride other animals than just horses due to their ability to commune with nature. Maybe the dev's don't want to go the route of "class specific mounts," but I feel like if they're going to have non-horse mounts, rangers make sense as one of the classes to be able to tame such wild animals. I don't believe in flying mounts personally, so I don't want to see them in the game at all. Swimming mounts on the other hand could be awesome, ESPECIALLY if the Dark Myr really do have underwater zones/cities. 

    Scouting: This might be more in line with warg abilities, but I think it would be cool of some classes (especially shaman) can target a far away enemy, then cast a spell to see through that enemy's eyes temporarily. If such spells exist, rangers should be able to do it with animal mobs.

    Relation to animals: Rangers should be non-kos to forest animals like wolves and bears. I don't think they should have "faction" with the animals, because the animals aren't a structured society. However, if you have aggro on an animal, you should become temporarily KoS to all similar animals until after you kill all currently aggro'd mobs. I liked the mechanic in Vanguard where you became kos if you had looted meat on you. That's freaking awesome! More of that in this game please. 

    Well I think that sums up my revised ranger wishlist. I'd be curious for your thoughts!

     


     

    • 77 posts
    December 18, 2015 6:35 PM PST

    I like it... I am a huge ranger fan among a few others but I think your wish list is pretty good!  I think tracking could be expanded especially for quests that involve hunting or exploring. 

     

    • 87 posts
    December 20, 2015 12:06 AM PST

    Well you (from previous discussion) you have my vote!

    first and foremost - Ranger should be a bow class.  with dagger/shortsword/dual wield 'back up' dps.

    for me  - leather armour.  maybe chain chest, maybe.

    critical difference - no warg type ability, just not a fan of rangers shapeshifting.  I fully support pet class.

    One thing you raised Ark that i am very interested in - Range.  unlimited is difficult, happy for it to be long but at distinct dmg reduction.  ALso think there should be a limit to how close (i know the Lars video had 2m (closer) shooting) i would like something like a 5 m range for short range attacks.  you could be in melee range then jump out of melee (a jump back ability) to use short range knock backs or stuns.  Traps should have to be placed when out of melee range as well.

    Mobile bow combat as well, with limited stand in place 'ranged nukes' so that they should be used situationally.

    This type of range i would play!

    like your thinking

    edit: typo


    This post was edited by Narben4 at December 20, 2015 12:06 AM PST
    • 23 posts
    January 11, 2016 10:38 AM PST

    I like most of what you said but you lost me on the bow. 

    The ranger should be the burst dps version of a fighter. Two handed sword or axe should be just as viable a weapon choice to a ranger as a bow or a short/long sword combo.  

    Ranger does not get its name from range damage - it comes from where they normally are - out on the edge of civilization or edge of the force/unit or troops he/she is tied to. 

    If you want a specific archery class add an archer.

    I agree with the primary stats but Str should be added to the list of options if they chose to go that weapon route. 

    Animal affinity should be determined by what secondary skills they pick up - it should not be automatic. 

    Camo, scouting and stuff like stealth are great additions and should follow the class regardless of weapon/class choices they make. 

     

    -Sab

    • 138 posts
    January 13, 2016 2:08 PM PST

    I would like to see rangers do the same DPS up close or Ranged. Their DPS should be on par with Rogues or Monks and still be able to set traps, poison, snare, light heal / regen, movement speed etc.

    Their is no reason they should be sub par DPS compared to Rogue or Monk. Other classes have their abilities just like a ranger. Monks can FD, self heal, etc. Rogues can sneak, hide, etc. 

    That was one of the things i loved about EQ. The classes were balanced in such a way that each felt completely unique. 

     

    I would love to see something similair, yet not the same, as a Hunter from Wow. Let me explain though. I know this game will be a mix of EQ and Vanguard and not like WoW.

    What I mean is an EQ centric Ranger but I would love to see some class specilizations a little like WoW.

    example: The hunter (Ranger in WoW), can specialize to have a pet (BM), or (marksman) be completely petless, or, can go survival (defensive/melee). Having these options would make the class more viable for Dungeon groups where ranged is dificult (think Sol B and thin caves with lots of turns). Just like Pantheon describes the environment playing a role in spell choice, have class specialization being a choice for a particular area. Ranger going survival mode in a dungeon where they can be an off tank, melee class rather than a full blow pure ranged class. Having charmed pets or summon animal etc. for those that want a "pet Class" 

    Having options within a Class to tailor the play style to a liking would be a really cool option. Full disclosure here, I don't want the game to be like WoW and Twitch combat. I love EQ1's pace of combat. 

    I hate whack a mole UI's. I also Don't want this game to be anything like EQ2. The spell system in EQ2 was down right horrible. My UI on my EQ2 monk had 5 Full rows of icons and each spell/ability did 10 different things that would take forever to really learn each deeply. 

     

    I am sure Pantheon has some great ideas. I am sure their idea of a ranger will be nothing like what I have in my head. They probably looked at ranger from EQ and VG and copy/paste/merged the two into the pantheon class and it's far too late in the game for changes to classes.

     


    This post was edited by Medjai at January 13, 2016 2:14 PM PST
    • 81 posts
    March 27, 2016 7:25 AM PDT

    One thing I have always thought a Ranger should have is the ability to make campfires. It's day one survival teaching and certainly lends itself to this class only as a specialty. With that said it's something they should get fairly early in learning the class.

    "Campfire" (maybe limit to outdoors only or have the proper ingredients in inventory) would provide increased health and mana regen when not in combat. Should last long enough to be effective between pulls/fighting if in a stationary area. Should have a small AoE range (like sitting next to a fire), and offset with a long cooldown.

    This would fall under the Ranger as a DPS/utility class as VR has stated, without being game changing. It also gives another reason for a group or raid to have the class.

    • 16 posts
    March 28, 2016 5:49 PM PDT

    I like a lot of what has been said.  Something that I don't think was realized very often about the VG ranger was the class ability to DOT the hell out of things both ranged and melee.  I saw huge damage parses from rangers who danced in and out of melee range to place all their DOTS.  They had some strong finishers, and I liked how the stance determined which abilities were stronger. 

    • 30 posts
    March 28, 2016 6:08 PM PDT

    Lakland said:

    One thing I have always thought a Ranger should have is the ability to make campfires. It's day one survival teaching and certainly lends itself to this class only as a specialty. With that said it's something they should get fairly early in learning the class.

    "Campfire" (maybe limit to outdoors only or have the proper ingredients in inventory) would provide increased health and mana regen when not in combat. Should last long enough to be effective between pulls/fighting if in a stationary area. Should have a small AoE range (like sitting next to a fire), and offset with a long cooldown.

    This would fall under the Ranger as a DPS/utility class as VR has stated, without being game changing. It also gives another reason for a group or raid to have the class.

     

    I love this idea. It could work for all archetypes, even. Druids and Rangers can make a campfire for health regen, but only outdoors or only in select spots indoors. Shaman can craft a totem for slight health and mana regen. Clerics can do a holy something or other for health regen and to ward away undead maybe. Casters can do something similar that gives mana regen. Warriors and monks and rogues... Hrmm I got nothin. 

     

    I like other ideas in this thread also, warg idea would be awesome. Pick a familiar animal for tracking or for limited dps or tanking. Control it while channeling for one Minute per hour. 

     

    I like the the idea of DoTs at range, and less dmg, less threat at greater range from a bow. 

     

    Some really cool concepts here!

    • 22 posts
    April 4, 2016 12:33 AM PDT

    I liked the Vanguard ranger personally. To squeeze all the dps possible out of the class you possibly could there were something along the lines of 15 dots (counting the cheezy epic pet that died almost instantly if a mob had a rampage) Some of the dots were a couple minutes long but low damage, some were only 4 or 5 ticks long but relatively large damage but on top of that you had your direct damage attacks via ranged and melee so everything came down to backing in and out of the melee/ranged ranges and paying attention to the various cooldowns.

    The ranger class could tank for a bit but it came down to the fact that the class was restricted to leather at most in VG as well. For my toon in VG i was a Kurashasa which had a racial ability to decrease damage by a large amount for 30 seconds which helped a bunch too but on a 1 hour(i think) timer so really was only an oh crap ability.

    Basically to me a ranger is someone who travels thus ranger. You're not going to be traveling very far if you're wearing plate armor so the ranger wears leather.

    You're not going to be eating very well if you are hunting with a 2 handed sword of mega dragon killing so the ranger is good with a bow and more than likely lighter hand weapons as well.

    A ranger is going to be familiar or at least have an idea how to survive in the wilderness and through the process of many dead rangers most are going to be pretty good at various things. For instance making a fire, finding food and if not tracking everything in a 50 meter radius at least maybe an idea that if I go to the north something bad is that way and it might not be a good idea for me to go there by myself.

    As to rangers healing I can see a tiny HoT or something. Afterall, this is a person who travels through the lands, they have probably twisted their ankle or cut themselves or been a total fail ranger at some point and walked right up to a bear not realizing the bear was a momma bear and she had a cub or two and they were between the 2 and bearly(hehe) survived the experience so i can see a little bit of healing, potion, bandaging or w/e ability.

    • 134 posts
    April 7, 2016 3:29 PM PDT

    I like the camp fire idea. It feeds right into the "elements" idea for enviroments in this game. Give a boost when in certain zones!

    • 110 posts
    April 11, 2016 8:06 PM PDT

    Sabatour said:

    I like most of what you said but you lost me on the bow. 

    The ranger should be the burst dps version of a fighter. Two handed sword or axe should be just as viable a weapon choice to a ranger as a bow or a short/long sword combo.  

    Ranger does not get its name from range damage - it comes from where they normally are - out on the edge of civilization or edge of the force/unit or troops he/she is tied to. 

    If you want a specific archery class add an archer.

    I agree with the primary stats but Str should be added to the list of options if they chose to go that weapon route. 

    Animal affinity should be determined by what secondary skills they pick up - it should not be automatic. 

    Camo, scouting and stuff like stealth are great additions and should follow the class regardless of weapon/class choices they make. 

     

    -Sab

     

    So long as we're all playing thread necros I want to go ahead and echo this post.  Rangers are named so because they are out and about patrolling a range.

    In my mind the ranger should be all about self sufficiency and using the right tool for the job.  When that means bow, it means bow, when that means axe it means axe, and when it means traps, tricks, or magic, it means traps tricks or magic.

    To throw back to D&D (the inspiration for EQ): the fighter is a weapon specialist, a fighter specializing with a bow should be the best archer in the game and be absolute garbage with swords and shields; a fighter who chooses swords should be the best with swords but garbage with bows.  Ranger's don't specialize; rangers use the tools needed rather than personal preference.