Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Maps of various kinds

    • 944 posts
    January 9, 2018 7:03 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    Cartography has been discussed for years within the Pantheon community.  I would venture to say that the majority of players don't want to see the traditional "Press M and a fully drawn out map opens up" kind of experience.  Furthermore, GPS indicators are basically viewed as the plague.  When you combine both of them, a lot of players end up opening their maps and focusing on a little dot that represents their character in the world while they travel or adventure, and will do this for extended periods of time.  Doing so takes away from the beauty, luster, and sense of exploration from the world itself and causes serious issues with the "It's about the journey, not the destination" argument.  I think a fog of war mechanic could be really beneficial for both map-makers, and map-users.  If a cartographer wants to create a map, they must be physically present in the area they are trying to record.  For players that purchase maps, they would start off as a basic shell  --  only after exploring an area will the fog of war dissipate and finer details start to emerge on the parchment.

    There is plenty of merit in the idea that having the ability to create player-made maps would be good for immersion, social interaction, commerce, and achievement.  Cartography would be a great crafting profession for explorer types as it would allow them to enjoy a sense of progression that is tied into their preferred playstyle.  After doing some research on the Bartle Study ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_taxonomy_of_player_types ) it would seem to me that cartography could be enjoyable for most player types.  Explorers seem like the natural fit, but as an Achiever, I must admit that a feature like this would be really appealing to me as well.  Socializers could also benefit from a variety of cartography-induced scenarios.  Whether it's assisting another player who is making a map or trying to communicate an interpretation of a map in their possession to friends, there are ample opportunities for social interaction.  Due to the nature of how player-made maps could work, bartering would also be commonplace.

    I would like to propose a rough outline of how this feature could work.  Feel free to respond with any observations/comments/feedback.

    Map Types:

    • Interior:  Interior maps would be used for large structures (Castles, Cathedrals, Temples, etc), Caves, Crypts, Tunnels, etc.
    • Exterior:  Exterior maps would be used for zones.  These would basically offer a birds eye view of any exterior zone.  Markers could be used to notate a POI that might require it's own interior map.
    • Bundle:  Advanced cartographers could create magical maps that transition from exterior to interior when you cross coordinate thresholds.  (These are much more difficult to make.)

    Map Resources:

    • Ink  (Drops from NPC's but requires refining from an alchemist before it can be scribed to parchment)
    1. Black Ink would be used to create the outline (outer shell pre-fog of war) for exterior zones.
    2. Blue Ink would be used to shade in tundras, glaciers, or bodies of water that you can swim in.  (Can use multiple shades)
    3. Green Ink would be used to notate forests, grass, gardens, crop fields.  (Can use multiple shades)
    4. Brown ink would be used to identify soil, swamps (can't swim in these), sand, rock.  (Can use multiple shades)
    5. Grey Ink would be used to identify mountains, walls, structures.
    6. Red Ink would be used to describe custom markers (Emblems) as determined by the cartographer.  (Can scribe text onto parchment and create textual references for NPC's, POI's or Perception Triggers)

     

    • Emblems  (Emblems would be a "skill" for cartographers, perhaps they can only utilize so many per day based on their skill level, method of skill ups TBD)
    1. Stars would be used to notate a POI.
    2. Exclamation points would be used to notate an NPC.
    3. Question marks would be used to notate a possible perception trigger.
    4. Additional Shapes (Waves, Mountain Caps, Trees, tents, keeps, campfires, signposts, steins (taverns!), etc)

     

    • Parchment  (If ink fades, you can return to your cartographer for recoloring)
    1. Crude Paper would deteriorate after 30 days.  Only black/green/brown/blue inks are compatible.
    2. Standard Paper would deteriorate after 60 days.  Only black/green/brown/blue inks are compatible.
    3. Crude Parchment would deteriorate after 90 days.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    4. Standard Parchment would deteriorate after 120 days.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    5. Vellum would be permanent.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    6. Uterine Vellum would be permanent.  All inks are compatible, and will never fade.

     

    • Codex  (These would be rare drops from the world loot table and players are free to affix them to their maps as they see fit)
    1. Basic codex would slow down deterioration and any ink fading by 25%
    2. Quality codex would slow down deterioration and any ink fading by 50%
    3. High Quality codex would eliminate deterioration and slow down any fading by 75%

     

    That's about it for now.  I'm not trying to propose a fully fleshed out cartography system, just wanted to get a conversation going.  I know some folks will probably cringe as soon as they see the emblem explanations and that's okay.  I think it's important to realize that all of these things will exist on 3'rd party websites anyway.  If cartography is going to be a meaningful profession, crafters should be able to compete with the world wide web.  I am particularly interested in ideas that could offer them any sort of value that could earn the business of folks who would otherwise be a window tabber as I feel this is the biggest obstacle in making a profession like this work.  Maybe cartographers could trade their emblems to other players (they become no-trade at that point), allowing consumers to mark down their own POI's or references as they see fit.  I'm sure there are plenty of potential conflicts that can be found in this post ... feel free to critique, but kudos to anybody who contributes any feedback or ideas that could improve or expand upon what is here.

     

    Great work and great ideas and allllllll of this is why they should just leave maps out of the game. It doesn't pass the cost benefit analysis when they  have so much else to work on. 

    • 2214 posts
    January 9, 2018 7:34 AM PST

    Krixus said:

    oneADseven said:

    SNIP

     

    Great work and great ideas and allllllll of this is why they should just leave maps out of the game. It doesn't pass the cost benefit analysis when they  have so much else to work on. 

    Unfortunately, with that logic, I suppose a lot of features could be justifiably axed from the game when looking at things purely from a cost benefit analysis perspective.  Besides ... there is nothing saying something like this couldn't come into fruition at a later expansion.  I suppose a non-crafter type could say that the cost benefit analysis of crafting should warrant it's exclusion from development ... because they personally do not see the value in crafting.  It's relative.  Some people would enjoy maps (and making them) and the system that I described could be extremely attractive to them.  I will admit that my proposal would be pretty demanding on resources ... but good things don't come easy.  Remember ... VR is aiming to "evolve the genre" with Pantheon.  I'm not saying cartography should absolutely be a part of that ... but I think there is enough demand out there for "meaningful maps" that there is an opportunity that could be leveraged here.  It's just something to think about, but I respect your opinion that it would be too daunting of a task to try and squeeze in.

    • 944 posts
    January 9, 2018 8:28 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    Krixus said:

    oneADseven said:

    SNIP

     

    Great work and great ideas and allllllll of this is why they should just leave maps out of the game. It doesn't pass the cost benefit analysis when they  have so much else to work on. 

    Unfortunately, with that logic, I suppose a lot of features could be justifiably axed from the game when looking at things purely from a cost benefit analysis perspective.  Besides ... there is nothing saying something like this couldn't come into fruition at a later expansion.  I suppose a non-crafter type could say that the cost benefit analysis of crafting should warrant it's exclusion from development ... because they personally do not see the value in crafting.  It's relative.  Some people would enjoy maps (and making them) and the system that I described could be extremely attractive to them.  I will admit that my proposal would be pretty demanding on resources ... but good things don't come easy.  Remember ... VR is aiming to "evolve the genre" with Pantheon.  I'm not saying cartography should absolutely be a part of that ... but I think there is enough demand out there for "meaningful maps" that there is an opportunity that could be leveraged here.  It's just something to think about, but I respect your opinion that it would be too daunting of a task to try and squeeze in.

    The thing is, those other things that people want like illness or deep crafting or perception or environmental effects all HAVE to be directly done in the game. People can just make their maps outside the game rendering this effort, while cool, not worth the effort(IMO). And I'm not hating you or your idea, I like both. 

    • 2214 posts
    January 9, 2018 9:12 AM PST

    Krixus said:

    oneADseven said:

    Krixus said:

    oneADseven said:

    SNIP

     

    Great work and great ideas and allllllll of this is why they should just leave maps out of the game. It doesn't pass the cost benefit analysis when they  have so much else to work on. 

    Unfortunately, with that logic, I suppose a lot of features could be justifiably axed from the game when looking at things purely from a cost benefit analysis perspective.  Besides ... there is nothing saying something like this couldn't come into fruition at a later expansion.  I suppose a non-crafter type could say that the cost benefit analysis of crafting should warrant it's exclusion from development ... because they personally do not see the value in crafting.  It's relative.  Some people would enjoy maps (and making them) and the system that I described could be extremely attractive to them.  I will admit that my proposal would be pretty demanding on resources ... but good things don't come easy.  Remember ... VR is aiming to "evolve the genre" with Pantheon.  I'm not saying cartography should absolutely be a part of that ... but I think there is enough demand out there for "meaningful maps" that there is an opportunity that could be leveraged here.  It's just something to think about, but I respect your opinion that it would be too daunting of a task to try and squeeze in.

    The thing is, those other things that people want like illness or deep crafting or perception or environmental effects all HAVE to be directly done in the game. People can just make their maps outside the game rendering this effort, while cool, not worth the effort(IMO). And I'm not hating you or your idea, I like both. 

    You make a great point, and that is something I touched on near the end of that post.  The challenge to making something like this worthwhile is providing value to the actual cartographer and his product that cannot be achieved by window-tabbing and viewing a map online.  Here are two ideas ... what if the cartographer could give players X amount of emblems that they can then use to customize their own map?  Also, what if cartographers had a skill where the group could huddle up and they could all view the cartographer's map together?  I think there are a lot of people out there who don't want to use 3'rd party sites for maps.  Being able to pull out a map and look at it as a group in-game would be immersive.

    Rather than giving everybody a link to a site that they can tab-reference, they would be able to actively look at a map together and even chart out their path.  One could make the argument that you don't HAVE to learn encounter mechanics for a boss fight in-game because you can just watch a Youtube video that explains them in detail.  Similarly, with deep crafting ... all of that stuff will be outlined online.  I have seen it in every MMO I have played.  There is always an "ideal path" that comes up that provides details on the quickest or least expensive way to level up.  I think any feature that encourages players to do things au naturale without referencing 3'rd party sites would be a good thing.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at January 9, 2018 9:12 AM PST
    • 4 posts
    January 10, 2018 5:24 AM PST

    Liav said:

    If maps aren't included with the game, they'll be made by a third party and be available online anyway within a few months. Trying to restrict information from players in 2015(*) is a fruitless endeavor.

    The "community strengthening" aspect of wikis and map creation is something I have not personally ever witnessed.

     

     

    Agreed. Making people alt-tab to see a map instead of being able to just pull it up in game is a silly restriction to put in place. I completely understand a map that's fogged until you've explored an area or whatever, but it does need to be included. People are going a little far with the 'people should have to x'. There are a lot of things that have made MMOs way oversimplified, and those should be addressed, but taking away small quality of life things like this can easily get out of hand. I'm all for a challenging MMO, but I did my time in vanilla eq and the lack of maps never increased my immersion. 


    This post was edited by Ganatar at January 10, 2018 5:25 AM PST
    • 584 posts
    January 10, 2018 11:19 AM PST

    Explorer class that can make maps and sell them if choosen.

    -without reading more into it.

    • 17 posts
    January 12, 2018 1:28 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    As of July, it was stated that maps are not planned at this very moment, but that could change depending on feedback during testing.  It was also said that cartography could be considered in the future.  There has not been a universal statement that said maps will never exist in Pantheon that I am aware of.  There have been universal statements that said tools like dungeon finder will not be used in Pantheon.  From the sound of it, feedback during testing is what will truly matter.  The more feedback there is in favor of having maps, the more likely they are to be considered ... but I doubt they will be 100% ruled in or out any time soon.  A really fleshed out cartography feature would probably be a big drain on resources, so the likelihood of it coming into fruition is probably tied into available funding and internal timelines.  I can certainly live with or without it but either way I see merit in constructive conversations that discuss how it could be implemented if we eventually get to the point where it's actually considered.  It's great to see an active community that cares enough to post about things like this.  Still, it's not safe to say that maps are absolutely needed until people have a chance to test the game and see how it feels.

    Thanks for the detailed response. I could also live with or without maps. You're right about the time it could take to implement too. I didn't consider the fact that maps would probably have to come towards the end of prodcution if they were to come at all. They are tied into the changes in environments and changes in the UI that would be made in the alpha/beta stages, so if they decide maps will be in the game, I don't expect to see maps implemented until release. Looking forward to seeing what they've come up with when Alpha rolls in. The Pre-Alpha NDA has me jealous :D


    This post was edited by opalrebel at January 12, 2018 1:32 AM PST
    • 962 posts
    January 12, 2018 7:24 AM PST

    I am also looking forward to alpha but don't begrudge those that paid for pre-alpha a minute of the wait. They deserve a reasonable period of exclusive access.

    • 944 posts
    January 12, 2018 7:31 AM PST

    Ganatar said:

    Liav said:

    If maps aren't included with the game, they'll be made by a third party and be available online anyway within a few months. Trying to restrict information from players in 2015(*) is a fruitless endeavor.

    The "community strengthening" aspect of wikis and map creation is something I have not personally ever witnessed.

     

     

    Agreed. Making people alt-tab to see a map instead of being able to just pull it up in game is a silly restriction to put in place. I completely understand a map that's fogged until you've explored an area or whatever, but it does need to be included. People are going a little far with the 'people should have to x'. There are a lot of things that have made MMOs way oversimplified, and those should be addressed, but taking away small quality of life things like this can easily get out of hand. I'm all for a challenging MMO, but I did my time in vanilla eq and the lack of maps never increased my immersion. 

    Your movement should never have anything to do with what is displayed on the map. Revealing the fog as you move is akin to telling you where you are. What in the freaking world happend to LEARNING THE WORLD? 


    This post was edited by Krixus at January 12, 2018 9:40 AM PST
    • 429 posts
    January 12, 2018 8:48 AM PST

    Krixus said:

    Your movement should never have anything to do with what is displayed on the map. Releavling the fog as you move is akin to telling you where you are. What in the freaking world happend to LEARNING THE WORLD? 

     

    technology has made the need to learn and memorize things a lost art. Why remember, when one can look up the answer in an instant?

    How many people could even tell you thier significant other's phone number without looking it up? 

    They've already said no maps, but if they did add them, I hope it is just a simple map with a few landmarks on it, and NO "You Are here" arrow. I liked the days of saying, "Meet on the N size of the Aviaks", "Come to Inn 2", "Just East of the windmill", and you knew the person knew the landmark you were referring to.


    This post was edited by Fulton at January 12, 2018 8:49 AM PST
    • 632 posts
    January 12, 2018 8:59 AM PST

    Fulton said:

    Krixus said:

    Your movement should never have anything to do with what is displayed on the map. Releavling the fog as you move is akin to telling you where you are. What in the freaking world happend to LEARNING THE WORLD? 

     

    technology has made the need to learn and memorize things a lost art. Why remember, when one can look up the answer in an instant?

    How many people could even tell you thier significant other's phone number without looking it up? 

    They've already said no maps, but if they did add them, I hope it is just a simple map with a few landmarks on it, and NO "You Are here" arrow. I liked the days of saying, "Meet on the N size of the Aviaks", "Come to Inn 2", "Just East of the windmill", and you knew the person knew the landmark you were referring to.

    In the real world, I am very much a "land navigator".  I don't use GPSes, and stick to paper maps and landmarks.  I have friends, that I could literally not tell you what street that they live on, but can guide you there "in my sleep" by the landmarks.

    • 589 posts
    January 12, 2018 10:35 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    Cartography has been discussed for years within the Pantheon community.  I would venture to say that the majority of players don't want to see the traditional "Press M and a fully drawn out map opens up" kind of experience.  Furthermore, GPS indicators are basically viewed as the plague.  When you combine both of them, a lot of players end up opening their maps and focusing on a little dot that represents their character in the world while they travel or adventure, and will do this for extended periods of time.  Doing so takes away from the beauty, luster, and sense of exploration from the world itself and causes serious issues with the "It's about the journey, not the destination" argument.  I think a fog of war mechanic could be really beneficial for both map-makers, and map-users.  If a cartographer wants to create a map, they must be physically present in the area they are trying to record.  For players that purchase maps, they would start off as a basic shell  --  only after exploring an area will the fog of war dissipate and finer details start to emerge on the parchment.

    There is plenty of merit in the idea that having the ability to create player-made maps would be good for immersion, social interaction, commerce, and achievement.  Cartography would be a great crafting profession for explorer types as it would allow them to enjoy a sense of progression that is tied into their preferred playstyle.  After doing some research on the Bartle Study ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartle_taxonomy_of_player_types ) it would seem to me that cartography could be enjoyable for most player types.  Explorers seem like the natural fit, but as an Achiever, I must admit that a feature like this would be really appealing to me as well.  Socializers could also benefit from a variety of cartography-induced scenarios.  Whether it's assisting another player who is making a map or trying to communicate an interpretation of a map in their possession to friends, there are ample opportunities for social interaction.  Due to the nature of how player-made maps could work, bartering would also be commonplace.

    I would like to propose a rough outline of how this feature could work.  Feel free to respond with any observations/comments/feedback.

    Map Types:

    • Interior:  Interior maps would be used for large structures (Castles, Cathedrals, Temples, etc), Caves, Crypts, Tunnels, etc.
    • Exterior:  Exterior maps would be used for zones.  These would basically offer a birds eye view of any exterior zone.  Markers could be used to notate a POI that might require it's own interior map.
    • Bundle:  Advanced cartographers could create magical maps that transition from exterior to interior when you cross coordinate thresholds.  (These are much more difficult to make.)

    Map Resources:

    • Ink  (Drops from NPC's but requires refining from an alchemist before it can be scribed to parchment)
    1. Black Ink would be used to create the outline (outer shell pre-fog of war) for exterior zones.
    2. Blue Ink would be used to shade in tundras, glaciers, or bodies of water that you can swim in.  (Can use multiple shades)
    3. Green Ink would be used to notate forests, grass, gardens, crop fields.  (Can use multiple shades)
    4. Brown ink would be used to identify soil, swamps (can't swim in these), sand, rock.  (Can use multiple shades)
    5. Grey Ink would be used to identify mountains, walls, structures.
    6. Red Ink would be used to describe custom markers (Emblems) as determined by the cartographer.  (Can scribe text onto parchment and create textual references for NPC's, POI's or Perception Triggers)

     

    • Emblems  (Emblems would be a "skill" for cartographers, perhaps they can only utilize so many per day based on their skill level, method of skill ups TBD)
    1. Stars would be used to notate a POI.
    2. Exclamation points would be used to notate an NPC.
    3. Question marks would be used to notate a possible perception trigger.
    4. Additional Shapes (Waves, Mountain Caps, Trees, tents, keeps, campfires, signposts, steins (taverns!), etc)

     

    • Parchment  (If ink fades, you can return to your cartographer for recoloring)
    1. Crude Paper would deteriorate after 30 days.  Only black/green/brown/blue inks are compatible.
    2. Standard Paper would deteriorate after 60 days.  Only black/green/brown/blue inks are compatible.
    3. Crude Parchment would deteriorate after 90 days.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    4. Standard Parchment would deteriorate after 120 days.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    5. Vellum would be permanent.  All inks are compatible, but red/grey inks will fade.  (Weather can expedite fading)
    6. Uterine Vellum would be permanent.  All inks are compatible, and will never fade.

     

    • Codex  (These would be rare drops from the world loot table and players are free to affix them to their maps as they see fit)
    1. Basic codex would slow down deterioration and any ink fading by 25%
    2. Quality codex would slow down deterioration and any ink fading by 50%
    3. High Quality codex would eliminate deterioration and slow down any fading by 75%

     

    That's about it for now.  I'm not trying to propose a fully fleshed out cartography system, just wanted to get a conversation going.  I know some folks will probably cringe as soon as they see the emblem explanations and that's okay.  I think it's important to realize that all of these things will exist on 3'rd party websites anyway.  If cartography is going to be a meaningful profession, crafters should be able to compete with the world wide web.  I am particularly interested in ideas that could offer them any sort of value that could earn the business of folks who would otherwise be a window tabber as I feel this is the biggest obstacle in making a profession like this work.  Maybe cartographers could trade their emblems to other players (they become no-trade at that point), allowing consumers to mark down their own POI's or references as they see fit.  I'm sure there are plenty of potential conflicts that can be found in this post ... feel free to critique, but kudos to anybody who contributes any feedback or ideas that could improve or expand upon what is here.

     

    This is great. I love ideas like this. 

    Make the maps done by cartographers so detailed and so packed with information that they would blow maps done outside of the game out of the water. Similarly, make those detailed maps so ridiculously hard to create, by cartographers, that only those with the money to blow can afford them. Allow the holder of the maps to write their own notes - make them customizable even after being bought. Make it so that NO maps have GPS "you are here" capabilities. 

    The detailed maps could indicate specifics, such as "Lord Shin'Ree Known to Hang Out Here Sometimes". They could indicate where traps, secret doors, and hidden passageways could be found inside dungeons. They could be a coveted item for tanks, as leaders of dungeon running groups. 

    I understand why people would not like this - it does indeed seem superfluous and unnecessarily tedious - but I also believe that, if done right, it's something that could add heretofore unknown enjoyment to an MMO. A dynamic not seen in other titles. EQ had "emergent gameplay", largely because there were so many functions and ideas that we, as players, were unfamiliar with. They were approached with fresh eyes, and we didn't know where they would lead. Something like the cartographer skill may not have this effect - but it also might. As far as I know it's not something other MMO's do, so what might happen as a result of its implementation in Pantheon? That's what makes me excited at the idea. 

    New ideas, new approaches, new challenges. That's what created the feelings we felt in EQ. 

    • 429 posts
    January 12, 2018 12:13 PM PST

    I will add one personal experience to this concept. Games with in-game maps versus games without in-game maps.

    I could still today, years after quitting EQ, probably sketch a large number of zones with landmarks, etc, and pretty accuratately descibe them and their landscapes, mobs, entrances, etc. Compared that to games that had in-game maps, I never learned. I couldn't even properly name 6 zones in WoW anymore, much less describe them, same goes for Rift and a multitude of others.

    Not following a map blindly, forces you to take in the things you see and memorize them in relation to other things.


    This post was edited by Fulton at January 12, 2018 12:14 PM PST
    • 101 posts
    January 12, 2018 12:56 PM PST

    I think that the "drawn treasure" maps in ESO were brilliant... they are actual maps that force you to look at your environment and compare it to the drawing of the map to try to identify landmarks, like a lighthouse or cave entrance.  You could also see when another player was reading a map because their character actually pulled out a map to read; it wasn't something on their user interface that they just stared at while walking toward a glowing dot.

    I think having maps like this would be beneficial (with a bit more detail, or perhaps a series of maps for some areas)... maybe you could have a "mapping" skill that once you've explored a certain area you can take 2-3 minutes (depending on skill maybe) to "sketch" a map (that is pre-named) for a region, and you can reference the map from your atlas/almanac just to at least identify certain landmarks in chat, like "meet me at Skycall Outpost on Weeping Mountain in the Crying Skies" and people could go to their crying skies section of the atlas/almanac and try to figure out where to go from there without being intimately familiar with the names of everything.  I still get confused with which entrance in Lava Storm was Sol A, Sol B and Nagafen...  (The top middle left entrance isn't Sol B, its the lower top in the middle one that goes to Sol A, but you may end up at Nagafen if you turn left.... And watch out for fire giants if you turn right.   Huh!?)

    Image result for ESO treasure map

     


    This post was edited by Darch at January 12, 2018 1:04 PM PST
    • 175 posts
    January 12, 2018 1:25 PM PST

    I'd go for a nice paperback book, artwork, maps, and lore about the areas sold by VR...

    • 565 posts
    January 12, 2018 1:37 PM PST

    First im not a big fan of in game maps. And I think the "fog of war" idea is just ridiculous, if they decide to go that route with the GPS then just give us the maps... fow is a fail.

    With that said I love the cartography ideas in this thread, and I think the cartographer sharing the map with group (raid) is very interesting. 

    I wonder, Could a skill like this, in a game without readily available maps. be as useful and or as valuable as teleports in a game with no fast travel (portal stones) or as resurrections in a game with a stiff death penalty? 

    Instead of a crafting type skill could this go only to a given class like

    Wizards have ports

    Rangers have tracking

    Clerics have high end resurrections 

    Warriors maybe get cartography?

    • 110 posts
    January 12, 2018 2:36 PM PST

    I love some of these ideas... Perhaps an enchanter could have an enchant for a map which give a justifiable gps for a short period or show the location of certain things, mob, treasure etc... Something like the Marauder's Map from Harry Potter...  "I solemnly swear that I am up to no good." 

    • 2214 posts
    January 12, 2018 2:53 PM PST

    Tralyan said:

    oneADseven said:

    SNIP

     

    This is great. I love ideas like this. 

    Make the maps done by cartographers so detailed and so packed with information that they would blow maps done outside of the game out of the water. Similarly, make those detailed maps so ridiculously hard to create, by cartographers, that only those with the money to blow can afford them. Allow the holder of the maps to write their own notes - make them customizable even after being bought. Make it so that NO maps have GPS "you are here" capabilities. 

    The detailed maps could indicate specifics, such as "Lord Shin'Ree Known to Hang Out Here Sometimes". They could indicate where traps, secret doors, and hidden passageways could be found inside dungeons. They could be a coveted item for tanks, as leaders of dungeon running groups. 

    I understand why people would not like this - it does indeed seem superfluous and unnecessarily tedious - but I also believe that, if done right, it's something that could add heretofore unknown enjoyment to an MMO. A dynamic not seen in other titles. EQ had "emergent gameplay", largely because there were so many functions and ideas that we, as players, were unfamiliar with. They were approached with fresh eyes, and we didn't know where they would lead. Something like the cartographer skill may not have this effect - but it also might. As far as I know it's not something other MMO's do, so what might happen as a result of its implementation in Pantheon? That's what makes me excited at the idea. 

    New ideas, new approaches, new challenges. That's what created the feelings we felt in EQ. 

    Glad you enjoyed the idea, and you're basically in the same boat as me.  I figured the maps would be particularly valuable to tanks as they tend to lead groups, but if you manage to get an actual cartographer in your group, everybody could benefit.  The key to making something like this work would be adding value that could not otherwise be achieved by window tabbing.  I'm sure there are ways to do it.  Most importantly, though, is how a profession like this could add value to various player demographics.  The idea of exploring/adventuring in an MMO is something we all love, and anything that can compliment that would probably be a good thing.  We wouldn't want it to be so powerful/accessible that the "effect" is watered down.  If someone has a map of the area, it should be meaningful.  You achieve this by making them very difficult to map out, expensive to make, and by adding in the decay mechanic.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at January 12, 2018 2:54 PM PST
    • 68 posts
    January 12, 2018 6:03 PM PST

    For me a World Map is fine. I just dont want anything more specfic than that in game.

    • 56 posts
    January 13, 2018 5:04 AM PST

    I am a fan of 187's idea. I also am a fan of the presentation of the maps in ESO.

    • 28 posts
    January 17, 2018 4:28 PM PST
    Definitely no in-game maps.
    • 18 posts
    January 18, 2018 10:41 AM PST

     

    I've posted this before but added a few thoughts...

    I want maps but I don't want them given to me by default. Starting City/Town, yeah, you get a map for that.

    Why not make collecting cartography information part of the game. Find a scroll, read a road sign, talk to a NCP, over hear an NPC talking, intrepret a ledgend, cast an intuition spell etc. An ongoing quest for information, in game, for the world at large. All of those things could be done in a way where it's fun to collect information about the world you're adventuring in. Isn't that adventuring? I think it could be done in a way that's interesting and not necessairily web-community emunerable a la Allakhazam's. =P Perhaps, that information, or some subset of it, could be shared player to player in game as a game mechanic. Perhaps some of that information is "magically" locked where it can't be shared, "you can't be told about the matrix, you have to see it." Maybe that information is like a rare drop, in some fashion, and is limited.

    • 88 posts
    January 18, 2018 12:28 PM PST

    I personally like a map... not a mini map though thats present on the screen all the time.  One that can be opened in game and is darked out, revealing only areas you have been to and discovered.  What would be a really awesome effect is if when you hit the map button, rather than opening a whole screen, that sort of like minecraft.. the map would in first person be whipped out, and scrolled open covering say 2/3s of the screen from bottom up and 3/4ths from center to the sides.   Effectively, still being able to see in front of you over the top of the map and a slight amount to the sides.  This would be the quick map.. if you hit and hold the map button or maybe a combo of keys...M for quick map and Ctrl+M for a full screen map that you can scroll around and also put pins with detils on, as well as in full map be able to go to any zone you have been to and see it there.

    In this approach the quick map is more for getting your bearings whilst keeping an immersion effect and the full map mode more details and edittable, the pins you drop should both be edittable as to leaving a note as to whats there but automatically give a /loc as well, so as to be able to direct others to an area easier that they themselves may not have yet discovered.

    -Vig

    • 88 posts
    January 18, 2018 12:32 PM PST

    Would also be kewlies to have dropped maps that reveal both partial or whole zones, hidden treasures, quest givers, or secret entrances to hiddden areas.

    • 60 posts
    January 19, 2018 11:42 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    In-game Maps, World Maps or No Maps, what do you prefer when playing an MMORPG? :)

    (This has been discussed a bit in some archived forums and more recently but I wanted to make a focus thread on it across multiple platforms, so please feel free to share your views again in here).

     

    IN GAME MAPS!!!!! 

     

    one that you have to create or buy from someone that can craft them!!!

     

    make them usable!

    honestly the less out of game material the better!

     

    personnalize maps places of importances, copy of a map, sharing discoveries with others with the party, allowing the content you want to share keeping some info for yourself as an option!