Beefcake said:letsdance said:Khendall said:I think the real point is not getting maps or not, but getting /loc or not./loc is needed to remember the position of your corpse. if we need corpse runs and have no way to get our location while dying, there'd be too much frustration. first thing i learned in EQ was to always get a /loc when dying.
Good luck explaining to someone where your corpse is without /loc.
Run fir 1 minute, take a left at the tree, take a right off the paved road. If you see the velocichicken, you have gone too far.
Guys, old solutions are made to evolve :).
First, corpse location method is required, not the full access to /loc, a first solution could be to give access to the player to a "sense corpse" skill that would work like the sense heading one, giving direction to the corpse. Next, this type of skill could be shared with group members if help is needed . And finally, I woud say it's a good thing having to give visual references to help someone locating the corpse, it is exactly what I would like to promote : players using their eyes and brain instead of some GPS :).
@Khendall - I couldn't agree with you more. Actually, there's a thread which goes over this exact issue. Finding one's corpse, /loc, and maps are all connected to one another. Finding your corpse is often a little tougher than most navigation, since dying often occurs as a result of losing your way. But, including /loc just to find your corpse has wide ranging impacts on many other parts of gameplay. A "corpse sense heading" mechanic as you suggested would aid in finding one's corpse without having huge impacts on other parts of the game.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5001/loc-and-corpse-summon
In that thread there is a great discussion about how /loc impacts in game maps. If you have /loc in game, then within a short period of time (possibly even pre-release) there could easily be 3rd party maps that read your chat log for your current zone and your most recent /loc and plot your character's position on a community made map. It is in our evolutionary programming to want to save time and energy and providing an easily accessible workaround to the consistent challenge of navigation by memory/landmark will be too tempting for (in my estimation) the vast majority of players.
Thorndeep said:I'm very glad there will be no mini map. But I would really like there to be a cartography skill that creates a map as you explore. The better your skill the more detailed the map. Or a more complicated system as some others have put forth if development resources allow. But in any case, it is just a map, not a gps, does not show your location on the map. Also, for cities, it would make sense to be able to purchase a map from a vendor.
This, I always thought a simple cartography skill woudl be nifty as a self only skill.
A. Buy a basic maps from a merchant.
B. Map is blank wiht no markers on it, but as you explore with the purchased map in your inventory you can skill up
C. The higher your skill the more detail becomes available such as dungeon entrances, cities, baddy camps, rich harvesting areas etc.
D. A "master" catographer can pinpoint him/herself on the map and mabe even group memebers.
Nifty idea either way.
I think a "rough" map system that auto-updates whenever you hit a Perception event would be cool. Say your walking near the mage tower we're going to be seeing later today. You get a perception hit near a tree overlooking the valley where the tower is. If you check the map (character map - not player map) your map now shows the location on the map for the area you're in. It doesn't show your character - jusdt the tree or rock or whatever it was that pinged your perception. I DO think that you should be able to mark an area map with PoIs though. I also think that when you open the map, it doesn't change the view or anything while you travle. It should show the area map and only info you have pinged using perception. It should still be your responsibility to determine where on the map you are.
As for /loc I can tell you this - since my first toon in EQ was a blind-as-a-bat Erudite in Toxx Forrest at night there is no WAY that I would have survived without it. And I can tell you that younger stupid me lost EVERYTHING a few times early on even WITH /loc. I am against this tool in every way. WE can sort of do this now thanks to using phones with GPS tracking etc., but our characters do not have this option - it should not be in-game for players. It SHOULD be in-game for staff etc. but not for players.
Iviean said:Thorndeep said:I'm very glad there will be no mini map. But I would really like there to be a cartography skill that creates a map as you explore. The better your skill the more detailed the map. Or a more complicated system as some others have put forth if development resources allow. But in any case, it is just a map, not a gps, does not show your location on the map. Also, for cities, it would make sense to be able to purchase a map from a vendor.
This, I always thought a simple cartography skill woudl be nifty as a self only skill.
A. Buy a basic maps from a merchant.
B. Map is blank wiht no markers on it, but as you explore with the purchased map in your inventory you can skill up
C. The higher your skill the more detail becomes available such as dungeon entrances, cities, baddy camps, rich harvesting areas etc.
D. A "master" catographer can pinpoint him/herself on the map and mabe even group memebers.
Nifty idea either way.
hehe in a pre-Google it world that would be fantastic Sorte; but now adays everthing is available. Within weeks we will have maps, quest, perception needed to trigger quest etc etc etc. Nowadays it really just comes down to do you want to have a map on your desk or in game. DOnt get me wrong i agree with you but the fact of the matter is it will be widley available and after the first few months a good chunk of the population will be asking for a basic map anyway.
OR have a map available on Normal PVE servers and No map on PVP and PVE RP servers.
>No map on PVP and PVE RP servers. <
Um, and just how is a map inconsistant with roleplaying?
To a large extent the heart of roleplaying involves acting as if you were your character rather than a Godlike puppeteer in the "real world" moving your character around.
In Terminus people will explore and make maps - its one of the things people do. Always. Since your character won't be the first person on the planet - cities and towns will already be established - maps will exist. Pretty much guaranteed. And your character will be able to buy or borrow or look at them.
A map or minimap is nothing more or less than a pictoral representation on the computer screen of the map your character is actually looking at on Terminus - or has looked at earlier.
Let's assume we leave out features like showing points of interest, where quest objectives are or the like. All we have is the terrain as you could have seen it in a cartography shop, and an icon showing your character's location. Why is this any better or any worse on a roleplaying or pvp server than on a normal server? IMO its good on all of them or bad on all of them.
dorotea said:>No map on PVP and PVE RP servers. <
Um, and just how is a map inconsistant with roleplaying?
To a large extent the heart of roleplaying involves acting as if you were your character rather than a Godlike puppeteer in the "real world" moving your character around.
In Terminus people will explore and make maps - its one of the things people do. Always. Since your character won't be the first person on the planet - cities and towns will already be established - maps will exist. Pretty much guaranteed. And your character will be able to buy or borrow or look at them.
A map or minimap is nothing more or less than a pictoral representation on the computer screen of the map your character is actually looking at on Terminus - or has looked at earlier.
Let's assume we leave out features like showing points of interest, where quest objectives are or the like. All we have is the terrain as you could have seen it in a cartography shop, and an icon showing your character's location. Why is this any better or any worse on a roleplaying or pvp server than on a normal server? IMO its good on all of them or bad on all of them.
I would quibble that a mini-map doesn't belong in this discussion, as its specific intent is to show your nearby surroundings. A map should NEVER indicate where you are, or indicate movement of any kind. You use the map to orient. Hey, there's the windmill on the map. Hey, there's the windmill in the game. Now, which way am I facing. Hey there's a big smoking mountain over there, hey there's a big smoking mountain on the map. Okay, I'm oriented. A map should never indicate where you are or what your heading or bearing are.
Please NO in-game maps at all.
People wanting maps in a game like Pantheon don't understand how much better it is without maps, ala original EQ1. So much better to discover and remember stuff yourself.
And NO /loc feature. A fantasy game should not have a latitude/longitude grid system that the player can access. For corpse runs, a simple "sense heading" towards the direction of your corpse will suffice. This access could be granted to other players to assist.
Stratoz said:Could some kind of editor ingame solve this we do the maps on our own but its still ingame.And a skill maybe to get some nice help along the way at lv 20 gridsystem every now and then some icons to place, lv 30 link to other maps ie the house in the first map ??
If the storage of player maps is server side as opposed to client side, then that's a potentially massive amount of server storage space they'd need to accomodate these custom maps.
If they're client side, then someone will just streamline the development process and you can just download the maps somewhere every time an expansion hits and the entire reason for avoiding maps in the first place is negated. This is how EQ was, and still is.
In game map is perfectly acceptable to many players. It helps guilds gather, and groups find a missing person etc.. Also tools used to mark your own map objects is great.
If you dont do it? someone will just allow us to print off the maps like we did in EQ back in 99.
So? help us by adding in the tools like EQ had. Brad knows what i mean. It was a great feature then, and should be today.
I should also point out something that many may not be aware of, There is interactive maps these days on the net from a single game map.
You can even have it follow you if the game parses allowed it. However we discussed that portion of it. So really what is the point not to have it?
Hey better yet Kilsin? why not turn it into a tradeskill... map making 101 in game, you know you might be the first to do it. Could find looting objects, so map makers could make maps up and sell them in game?
Kilsin said:In-game Maps, World Maps or No Maps, what do you prefer when playing an MMORPG? :)
(This has been discussed a bit in some archived forums and more recently but I wanted to make a focus thread on it across multiple platforms, so please feel free to share your views again in here).
I am a no map kind of person. Its rather fun to know your way in the world from distinguished landmarks or your own maps youve made.
-Mobile
-Todd
Kilsin said:In-game Maps, World Maps or No Maps, what do you prefer when playing an MMORPG? :)
(This has been discussed a bit in some archived forums and more recently but I wanted to make a focus thread on it across multiple platforms, so please feel free to share your views again in here).
I would say I would prefer just a world map with a few of the major towns around my starting city tagged on it. Do not show me where I am ... GPS doesn't exist, I don't see satellites flying around terminus.. no way the Celestrial Barrier would allow transmissions of that sort in and out anyways.
Let me mark the map up with my own POIs (saved server side so people cant just compile and download them).
Let me make my own sketch maps of dungeons, mountain paths, and underground tunnel systems.
let me duplicate (with copyright) and sell my map to other players in game for a few coins, components or hunting gear.
In some games its called fog of war. I MUCH prefer that to having everything already mapped out for you. The game is supposed to be about exploring and discovering and NOT having everything handed to you on a silver platter. As such it should be blacked out when you 1st arrive and as you move around areas are uncovered until you actually go everywhere on the map to see the entire thing. Some areas may always be dark as they might be places you just cant get to. As such ppl would kill themselves to try to get there as they would be sure there must be something hidden there lol.
I'd be for basic map functionality in the game (not a mini map) but make it a skill you have to pick up over time. Starting the game with no skills and little idea where you are is fine, but it would start to get old if you are a seasoned veteran and aren't allowed to carry a map of the land around for some reason.
In EQ I had the binders of maps for every zone that people created and while that was fine at the time, I don't see why we can't have the same thing in the game. Again though, not as something you'd start the game with.
Personally I would like if a simple /loc command was available in Pantheon. It existed in EQ and IMO never caused and serious problems...or did it??
If the command is too "immersion breaking" (as if there aren't enough other things that do the same), then maybe sextants should be available in-game and they should provide the same effect when used (giving you your current coordinates).
Seriously, if no maps (except for a global overview map) are available in game, then at least provide the tools to make our own maps on paper.
Liav said:Fog of war is pointless because it is defeated extremely quickly. There's no way the game world goes unexplored for more than a week, maybe a month tops.
I agree, the "fog of war" that gets unveiled as you move through an area doesn't really have a purpose. People will just run through the area once with not a care in the world for their surroundings just to unveil the map fog. Once that one pass happens, you are back to not caring what/where locations are.
Folks, just a reminder that this was one of my CM questions from back on December 7, 2015, since then, we have made it clear that we will not have any maps and encourage player made maps to share among the community yourselves if you like, if not, that is fine too.
Please be mindful to read the Original Post (OP) of every thread, taking note of the date it was posted before continuing on with the discussion as things can dramatically change over the years or already have answers, like in this case. :)