Forums » The Rogue

Lock picking

    • 21 posts
    November 15, 2015 7:02 PM PST

    I love the idea of this skill in MMOs, it gives certain classes a powerful yet situational utility role. Hopefully it will be used more in Pantheon than it was in EQ1. I think the best way to implement it is to make it stat driven, use consumables, and maybe a mini game for a little immersion. Might encourage people to bring a friend to look out for guards while they are distracted by picking the lock. What are other peoples thoughts on how best to implement the skill?


    A video on different mechanics for lock picking through a variety of games. www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTF3DiU-6zETYPE

    • 45 posts
    November 22, 2015 12:06 PM PST

    Lock Picking, Pickpocketing and Trap Disarming....Would really love to see them ingame...  Wouldn't mind some kind of disguise / forgery as well..but maybe in pushing it?  Bonus to gambling? :)

    • 149 posts
    January 14, 2016 7:19 PM PST

    I always wondered why MMO's didn't ever incorporate a casino type environment with different kinds of gambling games... where five people could have a poker night in game for in game currency.  I think it would add a definite RP dynamic and give people something to do when they want to play, but don't feel like grinding.


    This post was edited by Rubezahl at January 14, 2016 7:19 PM PST
    • 110 posts
    March 21, 2016 3:01 PM PDT

    Rubezahl said:

    I always wondered why MMO's didn't ever incorporate a casino type environment with different kinds of gambling games... where five people could have a poker night in game for in game currency.  I think it would add a definite RP dynamic and give people something to do when they want to play, but don't feel like grinding.

     

    This would be really cool. King's Court, but it's just poker or blackjack or something

    • 38 posts
    April 9, 2016 10:33 AM PDT

    I agree that these all should be implemented and dynamic in regards to a Rogues relationship to the Pantheon world.

    I think these are all necessities to give the Rogue an immersed feel when playing.

    • 27 posts
    November 3, 2016 11:09 AM PDT

    I love the idea of lockpicking but only if it has a real utility to it. In other words if part of solving a dungeon involved freeing prisoners by picking the lock to their cells for example this would be great. I can also see chests that need to opened but only if it doesn't upset the economy.

    • 1054 posts
    August 21, 2018 8:27 PM PDT

    Well, according to the Rogue class page, there won't be any Rogue lockpick skill.  I tried to get clarification from Joppa, but he didn't return my forum message.

    • 204 posts
    August 25, 2018 6:10 AM PDT

    Kalok said:

    Well, according to the Rogue class page, there won't be any Rogue lockpick skill.  I tried to get clarification from Joppa, but he didn't return my forum message.

    Not all abilities are in place or noted on the class pages as yet. I'm hoping!

    • 45 posts
    September 13, 2018 6:30 PM PDT

    I hope to see Lockpicking , trap disarming etc.  Gives some depth to the class that it might otherwise receive.  In table top games and also other mmos these are some of the core facets that make the class fun for me personally.

    • 1054 posts
    September 13, 2018 6:34 PM PDT

    Valheru said:

    I hope to see Lockpicking , trap disarming etc.  Gives some depth to the class that it might otherwise receive.  In table top games and also other mmos these are some of the core facets that make the class fun for me personally.

    Same here, but it's not looking good, based on the class page.

    • 85 posts
    November 1, 2018 8:43 AM PDT

    Trap disarming is in along with trap detection. 

    I agree though, sad to see lockpicking missing. best attempt I've seen was in Neverwinter online.

    Blood.

    • 474 posts
    November 2, 2018 7:21 AM PDT

    Valheru said: I hope to see Lockpicking , trap disarming etc.  Gives some depth to the class that it might otherwise receive.  In table top games and also other mmos these are some of the core facets that make the class fun for me personally.

    It's true that many Table Top games such as D&D make their Rogue class just a glorified Burglar with all the tricks of that trade. But this isn't what Rogue actually means. Most MMO's have just followed the D&D example and made a 'Thief' class and just called it Rogue.

    One thing to keep in mind though is the fact that 'Rogue' is not synonymous with 'Thief' or 'Burglar'. A Thief is often a Rogue, but not all Rogues are thieves.

    Definitions for Rogue:

    Noun: Rogue
    1) a dishonest or bad man (cambridge dictionary) - a dishonest, knavish person; scoundrel (dictionary.com)
    2) a person who behaves badly but who you still like (cambridge dictionary) - a playfully mischievous person; scamp; a tramp or vagabond (dictionary.com)
    3) a person, organization, or country that does not behave in the usual or acceptable way (eg A Rogue state) (cambridge dictionary)

    Verb: Rogued
    1) to cheat

    Adjective:
    1) behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a way that causes damage
    2) no longer obedient, belonging, or accepted and hence not controllable or answerable; renegade
    3) A rogue animal is a dangerous wild animal that lives apart from the rest of its group.

    Go Rogue:
    1) to start behaving in a way that is not normal or expected, especially by leaving your group and doing something dangerous

    So while Burglar's may fall into the category of 'Rogue', not all Rogues will be Burglars and as such may not have any of the typical 'Burlgary' skills. Even if you look up Synonyms for the word, there is no mention of Burglar.

    You get: villain, trickster, swindler, cheat, mountebank, quack.

    Now... with all that said... I'm guessing that VR is probably like many others and has the 'Rogue's are Burlgar's' mindset and so we probably will see some of the Burglar skills somewhere in their kit. We will just have to wait and see.

    • 71 posts
    November 2, 2018 6:14 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    Valheru said: I hope to see Lockpicking , trap disarming etc.  Gives some depth to the class that it might otherwise receive.  In table top games and also other mmos these are some of the core facets that make the class fun for me personally.

    It's true that many Table Top games such as D&D make their Rogue class just a glorified Burglar with all the tricks of that trade. But this isn't what Rogue actually means. Most MMO's have just followed the D&D example and made a 'Thief' class and just called it Rogue.

    One thing to keep in mind though is the fact that 'Rogue' is not synonymous with 'Thief' or 'Burglar'. A Thief is often a Rogue, but not all Rogues are thieves.

    Definitions for Rogue:

    Noun: Rogue
    1) a dishonest or bad man (cambridge dictionary) - a dishonest, knavish person; scoundrel (dictionary.com)
    2) a person who behaves badly but who you still like (cambridge dictionary) - a playfully mischievous person; scamp; a tramp or vagabond (dictionary.com)
    3) a person, organization, or country that does not behave in the usual or acceptable way (eg A Rogue state) (cambridge dictionary)

    Verb: Rogued
    1) to cheat

    Adjective:
    1) behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a way that causes damage
    2) no longer obedient, belonging, or accepted and hence not controllable or answerable; renegade
    3) A rogue animal is a dangerous wild animal that lives apart from the rest of its group.

    Go Rogue:
    1) to start behaving in a way that is not normal or expected, especially by leaving your group and doing something dangerous

    So while Burglar's may fall into the category of 'Rogue', not all Rogues will be Burglars and as such may not have any of the typical 'Burlgary' skills. Even if you look up Synonyms for the word, there is no mention of Burglar.

    You get: villain, trickster, swindler, cheat, mountebank, quack.

    Now... with all that said... I'm guessing that VR is probably like many others and has the 'Rogue's are Burlgar's' mindset and so we probably will see some of the Burglar skills somewhere in their kit. We will just have to wait and see.

    well all that may be true....I think of them as bandits or aassassins.... I have to say I also want lockpicking and all the things DnD has made the rouge out to be..... This class sure could shine if done right and Kilsin seems to be all about rogues so I have high hopes for the class.... above all else this class should be fun and engaging =)... I hope all classes are but my type of rogue is into all types of mischief....


    This post was edited by Nytman at November 3, 2018 7:48 AM PDT
    • 75 posts
    December 4, 2018 5:56 AM PST

    There is a video out there that discusses traps and potentially being able to disarm/create and utilize traps. It would seem reasonable to expect lock picking as well. This is something that would be closer towards the end after the core functionality has been finalized.

    The problem with lock picking is, you have to be careful in how it is applied to the game, as you do not want to end up segregating a portion of the game from the player base when a rogue is not around. As well, the functionality of lock picking itself cannot become a distraction or burden to players other than rogues. The concept of a mini game for lock picking, although possibly engaging for the rogue (but generally becomes bothersome after doing it a number of times in my experience), the rest of the group sitting around waiting for you to complete some mini game is not enjoyable.

    This makes the application of lock picking tricky. It needs to be engaging enough to be of interest and value to rogues, but not so much of a crippling game mechanic that the rest of the player base is frustrated every time they encounter it and a rogue is not around.

    • 1054 posts
    December 4, 2018 6:49 AM PST

    Roxxers said:

    There is a video out there that discusses traps and potentially being able to disarm/create and utilize traps. It would seem reasonable to expect lock picking as well. This is something that would be closer towards the end after the core functionality has been finalized.

    The problem with lock picking is, you have to be careful in how it is applied to the game, as you do not want to end up segregating a portion of the game from the player base when a rogue is not around. As well, the functionality of lock picking itself cannot become a distraction or burden to players other than rogues. The concept of a mini game for lock picking, although possibly engaging for the rogue (but generally becomes bothersome after doing it a number of times in my experience), the rest of the group sitting around waiting for you to complete some mini game is not enjoyable.

    This makes the application of lock picking tricky. It needs to be engaging enough to be of interest and value to rogues, but not so much of a crippling game mechanic that the rest of the player base is frustrated every time they encounter it and a rogue is not around.

    Why niot?  All classes have their uses.  You can't go into battle without a healer,so why not an adventure, especially if it's a quest that reqquires a Rogue?

    • 75 posts
    December 4, 2018 7:25 AM PST

    You have multiple options of healers, therefore greater options on group design. Having certain areas of the game blocked by dependency on one class make group dynamics extremely rigid and results in non-rogues being unhappy. Unless you want to share lock picking abilities with other classes. Summoners could summon lock picking tools or wizards could use spells like Knock. Other melee classes could bash doors or chests. I suppose it depends on how much you are willing to share a specialty. Obviously, the other classes should be less effective and likely fail more often, but using other classes for accessing game content would need to be feasible.

    • 1054 posts
    December 4, 2018 7:41 AM PST

    Roxxers said:

    You have multiple options of healers, therefore greater options on group design. Having certain areas of the game blocked by dependency on one class make group dynamics extremely rigid and results in non-rogues being unhappy. Unless you want to share lock picking abilities with other classes. Summoners could summon lock picking tools or wizards could use spells like Knock. Other melee classes could bash doors or chests. I suppose it depends on how much you are willing to share a specialty. Obviously, the other classes should be less effective and likely fail more often, but using other classes for accessing game content would need to be feasible.

    There were lots of times you needed a Rogue in EQ.  Same for Vanguard.  Nobody got butthurt about it.  It's amazing how "wussified" the current generation of gamers is compared to those of us that played genuinely hard MMOs that required people of specific skill sets to completecertain content.

    • 75 posts
    December 4, 2018 7:59 AM PST

    On the contrary, there was quite a bit of complaint and displeasure regarding closed off content in EQ1, to the point it was not introduced anymore in later expansions. I am having difficulty in remembering where this occured in Vanguard. Please remind me.

    • 1054 posts
    December 4, 2018 8:38 AM PST

    Roxxers said:

    On the contrary, there was quite a bit of complaint and displeasure regarding closed off content in EQ1, to the point it was not introduced anymore in later expansions. I am having difficulty in remembering where this occured in Vanguard. Please remind me.

    I would disagree.  I played EQ from 1999 to about 2004 or 2005, played EQ2 until Vanguard came out, and played about a year to two years of Vanguard and never saw any complaints.

     

    This is one of those agree to disagree moments.


    This post was edited by Kalok at December 4, 2018 8:38 AM PST
    • 75 posts
    December 4, 2018 8:53 AM PST

    I played basically the same time frame you listed, but I cannot comment on what you saw or read during that time. I just remember there were lots of complaints about not being able to reach half of sebilis or reaching Paineel without a rogue. Players eventually figured out ways to get around it using illusions or using MoB pathing to open doors.

    • 245 posts
    December 4, 2018 9:03 AM PST

     I agree, lockpicking should be in the game. Make a rogue a little bit more useful.

     

     But that being said there should be a "knock" spell as well and depending on the type of lock a bashing option as well.

    • 75 posts
    December 4, 2018 9:08 AM PST

    To be clear, I am not saying lockpicking shouldn't have situations of value, just you need to be careful in how you put it in the game so that it does not segregate other classes from content intended for all classes. I would be a little displaced if I kept encountering content I couldn''t enter because we could not locate a Shaman. A quest line that brought a rogue within the picture to continue to move forward, that certainly seems acceptable especially if it is following a story line. Having locations in the game with Rogue like lore and having locked areas seems perfectly acceptable. A group heading to a smugglers den, probably a good idea to take a rogue along with you as you likely encounter a number of rogue situations and having one on your side would benefit.

    I think with a little creativity, lockpicking could be given value that benefits all classes instead of displacing them.

    • 21 posts
    April 27, 2019 6:42 AM PDT

    Bloodfire said:

    Trap disarming is in along with trap detection. 

    I agree though, sad to see lockpicking missing. best attempt I've seen was in Neverwinter online.

    Blood.

     

    Neverwinter was actually amazing in a lot of ways. Playing and creating user made dungeons and making typically missing abilities in MMOs from D&D(and others) available and important depending on the campaign you were playing. My DM recreated a portion of our home campaign he wrote but he wanted to tell a great story that we kinda murder hobo‘d. It was really cool to recognize what it was from our game and the story it ended up telling. We were like bravo sorry we didn’t really RP it well at all. There was no way for him to save or adjust for us that night we were drunk and I was a gnome with a gropey mage hand.

     

    oh another ability mage hand as a ability if leveled it has more utility like to hold another weapon to fight or for CC to send off like a pet to have an enemy go get distracted by something that is doing so your group can sneak by.

     

    there is a lot of utility and fun rogue loses from paper to MMO. I’m tired of the boring do your backstab job then fall in line as boring positioned DPS.

     

    in pnp rogue is such a fun class in MMOs it is often as flat and boring as the wizard being stand back and use your biggest spell This enemy is weak to. These two are so often brought over so poorly when they are the richest to RP(for me)