Yup, I'd prefer my character to look like I have a boot for a head (but please don't think I wouldn't reather look cool too), if it meant that the females of at least a few of the races looked stunning. I say this because my girlfriend plays mmorpgs with me and she's better than 1/2 of my RL male friends at games, but I've noticed she reallllly likes making her character look pretty. I realize guys will do transmogs and stuff to try to make their characters look cool, but thats usually after they've progressed and don't have a lot to do so they're like screw it lets make my dude look sweet. (some) Girls on the other hand will have an open camp at a really cool location and be like OOOO nice lets go get that right after i finish changing my characters hair color!
TL;dr-put 75% of effort on character models into the female versions so girls will want to play the game.
-Taledar
I'm not really sure what you're asking for here, but I think we need to be careful. When it comes to armor, I want female and male armor to look the same. If you want casual clothing that may be more risqué, fine. We've talked about adding optional clothing sets that characters can wear when out of combat, but they should definitely not be going into battle with their boobs hanging out.
Now, if you are asking for "moar boob armor" I'm going to have to completely disagree.
I'm sick of the gratuitous sexism in MMO’s regarding female armor. I don’t play MMO’s to check out computer generated woman so I would rather the game take itself serious. Create realistic female body types and armor, please.
What I mean by this is, when wearing armor, you should not be able to tell what sex the character is if you can’t see the head, hands, or feet. There’s no such thing as “boob plate” or armor where a woman’s body is completely exposed.
Here is appropriate female armor:
bigdogchris said:I'm not really sure what you're asking for here, but I think we need to be careful. When it comes to armor, I want female and male armor to look the same. If you want casual clothing that may be more risqué, fine. We've talked about adding optional clothing sets that characters can wear when out of combat, but they should definitely not be going into battle with their boobs hanging out.
Now, if you are asking for "moar boob armor" I'm going to have to completely disagree.
I'm sick of the gratuitous sexism in MMO’s regarding female armor. I don’t play MMO’s to check out computer generated woman so I would rather the game take itself serious. Create realistic female body types and armor, please.
What I mean by this is, when wearing armor, you should not be able to tell what sex the character is if you can’t see the head, hands, or feet. There’s no such thing as “boob plate” or armor where a woman’s body is completely exposed.
While understanding your viewpoint I think for the must part your plan would have the game feel very androgynous for no reason other than political correctness. IMO Armor should "look" like it has some protective value, past that I don't care what they do.
In summary:
Metal Bikini's with the stats of my Breastplate? No
Leather armor that looks like it was actually built with the gender of it's wearer in mind? Yes
^Agreed. I don't think anyone is asking for sexy skimpy armor. Simply attractive avatars. (Or an ugly avatar if that is what the player is going for)
I hope the character creation process is robust. Some of the new games, especially from eastern developers, have made huge strides in that department. The oversexualization aside, games like Black Desert or Bless or Core online blew my mind with the amount of possible character diversity. While it went to waste on those games, I think it could play a big part in connecting players to their character.
Dullahan said:^Agreed. I don't think anyone is asking for sexy skimpy armor. Simply attractive avatars. (Or an ugly avatar if that is what the player is going for)
I hope the character creation process is robust. Some of the new games, especially from eastern developers, have made huge strides in that department. The oversexualization aside, games like Black Desert or Bless or Core online blew my mind with the amount of possible character diversity. While it went to waste on those games, I think it could play a big part in connecting players to their character.
also sory for the triple post, but Yes this is what i agree with completely.
Taledar said:I was mainly talking about making the girls characters like their faces and bodies look good...
Being a girl, I'm going to weigh in on this one. :)
I've learned that I don't really need "pretty" characters to be happy with my toon. In VG I played a VERY ugly female half giant. At first, I was almost reluctant to actually roll a half giant because of how ugly they were. It didn't help that VG's character models were pretty bad. I did eventually come to love her looks. I embraced her giantness. VG's character creation helped with that. The fact that it had fairly decent customization allowed me to tweak her to a point that I thought she was pretty...for a half giant. I think the key is customization. And lots of it.
By the looking at the races of Pantheon, I think we probably will have some beautiful races and some not so beautiful races. No doubt, a lot of girls will play the "pretty" races (boys will too, I bet), but I think most people, even the girls, could be happy with the "ugly" races as long as the character models are fairly well done and there are lots of ways to customize their toons to look unique. And to be able to sometimes change their hair (in town only).
i would like to throw two cents in.
Character creation/customisation has to be deep on both sides. i am male and depending on mood at time of release i make either male or female toons. the critical factor is customisation to achieve uniqueness. As per my post in the "are humans boring thread" there is nothing worse that seeing multiple versions of your character just because every 5th person chose body type 2, hairstyle 3, human male. those days have to be behind us ??
Trust me i spend a bit of time on toon creation (maybe i am vain and need a certain 'look' to be happy)
I also want armour variation - i hate boobs out armour it spoils immersion.
I love customisable vanity sets (not a big fan of 'facehugger' helmets) but nice social clothing (again that is or can be unique) that you can wear at most times (travel/town/housing) but NEVER in raids or dungeons. Good abilty to customise through dye sets can assist.
Lastly, women and men are built differently - i think armour should fit differently. After all we don't run around in metal buckets or cloth sacks :)
sdcord said:You have a girlfriend and you play mmorpg's? Impressive.
Even more impressive, is she plays as well. ;) Been trying to get my wife to play for years, she has no interest. Of course she still struggles with her iPhone, so I could only imagine trying to teach her gaming. :)
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I don't think this needs to be only female characters, I think both genders should look good and have a decent variation in body size, faces, etc. One thing I couldn't stand in WoW was how ugly the male characters are, especially the humans (who are always overly buff looking even if your playing a casting class) and night elves.
I'd say just put in a detailed character custimization options and it'll be good
Taledar said:.....
TL;dr-put 75% of effort on character models into the female versions so girls will want to play the game.
-Taledar
Yikes! Well I suppose that statement would be true for girls who only really play to play with their significant others.
But speaking for myself (and probably most other gamers here, male and female alike ) we really are here for the gameplay. Those that are only here to look good will get bored with the game and move on. Those that stay will stay because we really like playing this game.
There are two separate points here.
One is that a female should look like a female even in armor. Androgynousness for political correctness or any other reason is not sought after and would not be good.
That being said, it is possible for a female to look female without looking cheap, whorish or comic-book-chain-bikini-style.
A decent artist should be able to make a design that's realistic, or at least not ridiculous - this being a game, full 100% realism is not critical - while still making male/female models recognizable, and female models reasonably pretty (if they want). Pretty does not mean boobs half a meter in front of her, it does not mean a plate armor with huge openings where they fall out, it does not mean cheap sexual tittilation. Yes, a pretty female always has some gender-related connotations. It will always make straight males think about certain things, even if only in the backs of their minds. A real-life pretty woman, decently but nicely dressed and with decent but nice makeup has the same effect. This is normal.
But it should not look cheap and easy.
Everybody should understand the difference. And artists making models and items for the game certainly must understand it.
In very select cases, where it fits the game lore, you can make females look in a different way, even more revealing, if it fits that part of the game lore. An example would be EQ 1 Dark Elf females. As long as it's restricted to where it makes sense within the overall story, it's ok. As soon as you start putting it everywhere, to attract audience in a cheap way, the game itself loses class.
I agree that female armor types shouldn't be bullet proof bikinis and high-heeled stilettos.
But there is one BIG important factor for the argument 'realism' vs 'MMOs' and that is the avatar. A player's avatar is EVERYTHING and ANY small detail that can make them unique and separate them from the rest of the pack should be welcomed. So having 'boobed' breastplates IMO isn't necessarily a terrible thing because yes while impractical in a real life setting that little bit of detail helps separate a male player from a female player not only instantly but irrefutably (especially if they have a helm equipped). I agree as well though that it shouldn't be overdone. Just a subtle amount to distinguish male from female would be enough.
Baulkin said:While understanding your viewpoint I think for the must part your plan would have the game feel very androgynous for no reason other than political correctness. IMO Armor should "look" like it has some protective value, past that I don't care what they do.
In summary:
Metal Bikini's with the stats of my Breastplate? No
Leather armor that looks like it was actually built with the gender of it's wearer in mind? Yes
I hope you're not trying to steer this conversation in a direction completely different than my intentions. My comment has nothing to do with looking androgynous or political correctness. That simply does not apply here.
I'm talking strictly about making armor look like armor regardless of who wears it. There is no such thing as "boob armor".
The point about it looking the same is that medieval plate armor, as shown in the picture above, does not look different on a female than it would on a male. Of course some leather or cloth armor designed and worn by a female will fit and look slightly different than on a male. However, fitting and designed differently doesn't mean you have breast cutouts and boobs sticking out.
I can come down on both sides of this discussion. While I appreciate the points of the realistic armor approach, women in battle, in metal armor, is in it of itself unrealistic. Throw in a fantasy world where said woman is potentially a mermaid and I think all bets are off.
What I think is being said here is we want a nice middle ground. Nothing outrageous, but a little style would be nice. If I was a wealthy baroness contracting a suit of armor there's nothing saying I wouldn't have the BP made into an ideal female form. We don't have a historical record of this, but that's because there aren't female knights, but we do know that men did this. Greeks, Romans, etc.
It's not outrageous to have an ideal female anatomy on a breastplate design if men did the same thing.
Fulton said:sdcord said:You have a girlfriend and you play mmorpg's? Impressive.
Even more impressive, is she plays as well. ;) Been trying to get my wife to play for years, she has no interest. Of course she still struggles with her iPhone, so I could only imagine trying to teach her gaming. :)
// Heal me! Quick.. Heal me now!!!
// Dammit.
// Loading........
Lmaooo. Luckily mine played WoW in highschool. Stopped playing games in college then I was able to revert her back to the old ways. =P
