Forums » The Ranger

What I'd like to see from the ranger class

    • 71 posts
    September 25, 2015 8:38 AM PDT

    My main in EQ was always a ranger. They were always my favorite class from a role playing stand point, and a practical stand point. The planes of power era ranger I thought was the most fun to play and also the most balanced, aside from archery being a tad OP (Though that was balanced out once guilds started acquiring plane of time melee weapons). I personally think including those old core ranger skills in pantheon would be a very good thing:

    • Attack buffs
    • High long term sustained archery dps
    • High melee dps (higher than a warrior or knight, but a bit lower than a monk or a rogue)
    • Quick cast light heals
    • Run speed buffs
    • Levitate buff
    • Snares / Roots
    • Invis
    • Quick cast light nukes
    • Chain wearers - best tanks after warriors and knights
    • Tracking

     

    Do you guys agree with my thoughts on this? I think the main thing to take away from this is to keep the ranger a VERSATILE class, while maintaining the ability to put out high dps that is comparable to the other damage dealers.

    Or do you think Pantheon should attempt to make the ranger class new and unique? 


    This post was edited by Linkamus at September 25, 2015 10:40 AM PDT
    • 206 posts
    September 25, 2015 10:44 AM PDT

    I always felt really at home playing the EQ1 ranger. It was a very special class for me and I would hope that the Pantheon ranger will be very familiar.

    • 87 posts
    December 5, 2015 2:51 AM PST

    Linkamus said:

    My main in EQ was always a ranger. They were always my favorite class from a role playing stand point, and a practical stand point. The planes of power era ranger I thought was the most fun to play and also the most balanced, aside from archery being a tad OP (Though that was balanced out once guilds started acquiring plane of time melee weapons). I personally think including those old core ranger skills in pantheon would be a very good thing:

    • Attack buffs
    • High long term sustained archery dps
    • High melee dps (higher than a warrior or knight, but a bit lower than a monk or a rogue)
    • Quick cast light heals
    • Run speed buffs
    • Levitate buff
    • Snares / Roots
    • Invis
    • Quick cast light nukes
    • Chain wearers - best tanks after warriors and knights
    • Tracking

     

    Do you guys agree with my thoughts on this? I think the main thing to take away from this is to keep the ranger a VERSATILE class, while maintaining the ability to put out high dps that is comparable to the other damage dealers.

    Or do you think Pantheon should attempt to make the ranger class new and unique? 

    I am concerned with the amount of abilities and the variety of abilites in the list above.  

    I think that Rangers should be very limited in any healing they can do (most likely only self/pet) and certainly not enough to matter longer term in raid type content.

    Rangers should not be able to Tank - unless by tank you mean getting something/someone really mad or distracting it and then kiting as you run like a scared child.  

    Don't like levitate but could understand something like 'tread careful' as an indication of their prowess across terrains

    Rangers should get atk bonus in wild zones and against beasts

    Agree with high ranged  (mostly physical )dps unless emplying particular arrows

    Melee should be limited to some basic abilities for oh **** moments - should not rely on them as should get % bonus if at range (and flanking etc)

     

    I do not like the idea of any class being able to do everything 

    • 134 posts
    December 6, 2015 3:45 PM PST

    Narben4 said:

    Linkamus said:

    My main in EQ was always a ranger. They were always my favorite class from a role playing stand point, and a practical stand point. The planes of power era ranger I thought was the most fun to play and also the most balanced, aside from archery being a tad OP (Though that was balanced out once guilds started acquiring plane of time melee weapons). I personally think including those old core ranger skills in pantheon would be a very good thing:

    • Attack buffs
    • High long term sustained archery dps
    • High melee dps (higher than a warrior or knight, but a bit lower than a monk or a rogue)
    • Quick cast light heals
    • Run speed buffs
    • Levitate buff
    • Snares / Roots
    • Invis
    • Quick cast light nukes
    • Chain wearers - best tanks after warriors and knights
    • Tracking

     

    Do you guys agree with my thoughts on this? I think the main thing to take away from this is to keep the ranger a VERSATILE class, while maintaining the ability to put out high dps that is comparable to the other damage dealers.

    Or do you think Pantheon should attempt to make the ranger class new and unique? 

    I am concerned with the amount of abilities and the variety of abilites in the list above.  

    I think that Rangers should be very limited in any healing they can do (most likely only self/pet) and certainly not enough to matter longer term in raid type content.

    Rangers should not be able to Tank - unless by tank you mean getting something/someone really mad or distracting it and then kiting as you run like a scared child.  

    Don't like levitate but could understand something like 'tread careful' as an indication of their prowess across terrains

    Rangers should get atk bonus in wild zones and against beasts

    Agree with high ranged  (mostly physical )dps unless emplying particular arrows

    Melee should be limited to some basic abilities for oh **** moments - should not rely on them as should get % bonus if at range (and flanking etc)

     

    I do not like the idea of any class being able to do everything 



    Out of curiosity, did you play a ranger in EQ1? Everything on his list was something an EQ1 ranger could do, and he didn't even give a comprehensive list. And as a matter of fact, despite all those abilities, rangers were seriously UNDER powered for most eras before the PoP expansion. When I first started raiding, despite having everything he listed above and more, I was seen as so under-powered as a class, that our primary role in a raid was to eat the "death touch." (In case you don't know what that is, in classic EQ, high level mobs had the ability to instantly kill anyone after a certain amount of time. They usually started an encounter with a DT, then would have a cooldown of about 1 minute then DT again. So many guilds sent a ranger in to "eat the death touch" right away, so a warrior could then take over and tank for a bit. Really "skilled" rangers would learn to pull aggro right before the next DT was due, so another ranger could eat the next DT instead of the tank... not the most glamorous of roles).

    Anyhow, I agree. I've always played ranger and would love to see these things above. I'd like there to be more of a focus on melee with rangers than bows, because I think that bows should be more about sniping/pulling than full time DPS. I'd love to see bows deal heavy damage per arrow, but be slower to reload. I'd be SUPER awesome (though probably unrealistic) to need to aim a bow, a la TES.

    I'd also like to see tracking make a comeback in this game, and be something either unique to rangers, or something they are the best at. THAT was a cool EQ ability. Also, it'd be cool to have some connection to forest animals, though of course less than what druids can do. It was always fun turning into a wolf in EQ!

    I'd also like to see spot spells/DoT/weapon procs be more of where a rangers DPS comes from than just melee weapons. It'd be cool if they did ok melee damage, but you needed to actually work a bit to utilize your full DPS kind of like how bards twisted songs in EQ. Rogues/monks as OP said should be all about the melee DPS. Casters should be about dots/nukes. Rangers should be about using specially timed dots/poisons to augment their weapon damage.

    Also, and this is huge, I'd like ranger spells to stack with caster spells. Often in EQ the ranger spells were just inferior versions to caster spells that didn't stack. If you used a DoT as a ranger, the caster would either override yours, or not be able to land their superior spell. That made it so you basically should stick to melee only, or you'd be in the way. I want my class to contribute to the group in a way other than turning auto attack on.

    Oh, it'd also be cool if rangers could set traps for enemies to fall into. You could scout out ahead of your group, then lure an enemy over a snare or spike trap, rather than having snare just be a spell you cast.

    • 87 posts
    December 7, 2015 1:13 AM PST

    Arksien said:

     

    Out of curiosity, did you play a ranger in EQ1? Everything on his list was something an EQ1 ranger could do, and he didn't even give a comprehensive list. And as a matter of fact, despite all those abilities, rangers were seriously UNDER powered for most eras before the PoP expansion. When I first started raiding, despite having everything he listed above and more, I was seen as so under-powered as a class, that our primary role in a raid was to eat the "death touch." (In case you don't know what that is, in classic EQ, high level mobs had the ability to instantly kill anyone after a certain amount of time. They usually started an encounter with a DT, then would have a cooldown of about 1 minute then DT again. So many guilds sent a ranger in to "eat the death touch" right away, so a warrior could then take over and tank for a bit. Really "skilled" rangers would learn to pull aggro right before the next DT was due, so another ranger could eat the next DT instead of the tank... not the most glamorous of roles).

    Anyhow, I agree. I've always played ranger and would love to see these things above. I'd like there to be more of a focus on melee with rangers than bows, because I think that bows should be more about sniping/pulling than full time DPS. I'd love to see bows deal heavy damage per arrow, but be slower to reload. I'd be SUPER awesome (though probably unrealistic) to need to aim a bow, a la TES.

    I'd also like to see tracking make a comeback in this game, and be something either unique to rangers, or something they are the best at. THAT was a cool EQ ability. Also, it'd be cool to have some connection to forest animals, though of course less than what druids can do. It was always fun turning into a wolf in EQ!

    I'd also like to see spot spells/DoT/weapon procs be more of where a rangers DPS comes from than just melee weapons. It'd be cool if they did ok melee damage, but you needed to actually work a bit to utilize your full DPS kind of like how bards twisted songs in EQ. Rogues/monks as OP said should be all about the melee DPS. Casters should be about dots/nukes. Rangers should be about using specially timed dots/poisons to augment their weapon damage.

    Also, and this is huge, I'd like ranger spells to stack with caster spells. Often in EQ the ranger spells were just inferior versions to caster spells that didn't stack. If you used a DoT as a ranger, the caster would either override yours, or not be able to land their superior spell. That made it so you basically should stick to melee only, or you'd be in the way. I want my class to contribute to the group in a way other than turning auto attack on.

    Oh, it'd also be cool if rangers could set traps for enemies to fall into. You could scout out ahead of your group, then lure an enemy over a snare or spike trap, rather than having snare just be a spell you cast.

    thanks Arksien - i did not play Ranger nor anything else in EQ1 at any stage that it would mean anything.  I understood from OP that the Rangers must have had those abilities as it was based on a "i like what we had should we keep it" question.  Given my 'no real experience with the class in EQ" i am interested in your thoughts about how under powered the Ranger was.  Could it be that in the scope of being a class based on everything there was no real focus on anything that meant the class felt deficient across all roles?

    I like the idea of melee dps but i think (and this is only me spit balling here) that there should be a conscious decision to choose melee vs ranged dps.  I think this could be fun. Dual wielding blades short range bow attacks vs long range arrow specific (various elemental affects, slowing, burning, shocking, poison etc), distraction shots to assist raid movement tank swapping etc.  Won't list all but idea is there.  My view again that Rangers, bond with nature, must be very different to druid. Personally, no shapeshifting, leave it to druids.  Abiity to maintain pets/or summon assistance absolutely.  I love the idea of trap usage in assisting utility, kiting, cc etc etc

    I know we are looking at EQ as the premise for all of the classes but were they correct? could they be developed into something that gave the ranger purpose?

    I have historically played healers and tanks in everything i have played.  Ranger is something i am very interested in pursuing as i like the roleplay aspect (funnily enough my PnP characters have often been crafty ranger tpyes that can utilise high ground in combat, or use wildnerness skills to prevent ambush etc.

    as always thanks reading and love the concversations

    • 759 posts
    December 7, 2015 12:12 PM PST

    I agree with your comments Link...  I also think it would be cool to craft your own arrows in Pantheon, making them slightly better or have unique effects that normal ammo would not have.  Be able to use all options on the fly depending on the scenario.

    • 134 posts
    December 7, 2015 12:58 PM PST

    Hey Narben! 

    Ok well that makes sense then! I think you may be right that part of the problems with many classes in EQ was the "jack of all trades" syndrome, but I think there was more to it than that.

    First, EQ had way more classes and abilities than any other MMO. Mostly it worked well, but not at first and not always. Believe it or not, there were some pretty important things rangers couldn't do in EQ despite the long list of what they could.

    While EQ helped create the concept of the "tank, healer, dps, CC" macro categories that are now staples of MMOs, it did it a lot less generically than what we see now. They basically started with the generic idea, then expanded on it with each core class. "Core" or "pure" classes stuck to one main area; warrior as tank, rogue and monk as dps, cleric as healer etc. Then you had what we're known as "hybrid" classes. This is where rangers came from. Rangers were a warrior crossed with a druid. Basically, they could do most everything those two classes could do, but to a lesser ability and later on.

     

    Now, there was a real chance to balance this, and it was realized later to an extent, but as I said above there were a few problems. A major source of their DPS was supposed to come from spells. However, their spells did not usually stack with Pure caster spells. This meant that if you grouped with a caster, a ranger needed to stick to melee for dps. Of course, their melee was weaker than monk or rogue, so it basically just left them as underutilizing their abilities in most instances.

    Of course, in the development eyes, the hybrids were OP, because on paper they should have been. So they put a soft experience nerf on groups with hybrids in them. So badically, not only were they under powered as a class since they couldn't use their designed abilities when playing with others, but if you took pItty on one and invited it to the group, you were rewarded with less exp per kill. Basically you started seeing groups advertise "group LFM, no hybrids" as a norm until around Velious when they undid this.

     

    What I'd like to see in hybrids in this game would be have them be utility classes that can be a stand in for a missing main class to bridge the gap, or to augment the main class if it is there. While their DPS isn't the best, they can make up for it by tanking in a pinch if the MT goes down. While they won't normally be a MT, it's ok because they can snare enemies and buy time for the group. They can also do lots of burst damage once every hour or two by turning into a wolf for 1 minute doing extra dps when a named mob is pulled. This goes for what I want to see in all hybrids, where they can pick up the slack in a pinch.

     

    With all that said, another version of a ranger I could get behind is crazy bow dps with no range close range limit, like the video if Lars posted in the other thread. If they go that route, then I wouldn't want to see rangers hyper proficient with swords. Maybe they're good with swords and daggers to a point, but less so than other melee classes so it's seen as a backup for when they run out of arrows, their true dps.

    In this version of a ranger, I'd want to see their skills more in line with tracking and setting traps, and casting camouflage  (invis) than other spells. I'm not saying no spells at all, but very minimal (like speed run buff, invis, invis to animals etc). That way you have prime DPS as ranged, ok backup DPS with melee, and group assist buffs in a narrow band. In this case they should probably be a leather class and not ringmail, so they can have bonus speed at the loss of off tanking. The more I type this out, the more it sounds like a really cool class idea and I hope they go that direction.

    • 87 posts
    December 7, 2015 1:35 PM PST

    Arksien said:

    With all that said, another version of a ranger I could get behind is crazy bow dps with no range close range limit, like the video if Lars posted in the other thread. If they go that route, then I wouldn't want to see rangers hyper proficient with swords. Maybe they're good with swords and daggers to a point, but less so than other melee classes so it's seen as a backup for when they run out of arrows, their true dps.

    In this version of a ranger, I'd want to see their skills more in line with tracking and setting traps, and casting camouflage  (invis) than other spells. I'm not saying no spells at all, but very minimal (like speed run buff, invis, invis to animals etc). That way you have prime DPS as ranged, ok backup DPS with melee, and group assist buffs in a narrow band. In this case they should probably be a leather class and not ringmail, so they can have bonus speed at the loss of off tanking. The more I type this out, the more it sounds like a really cool class idea and I hope they go that direction.

    Thanks Arksien.

    What you started to describe at end is exactly what i think of when i think Ranger - Leather, Ranged, Wilderness lore based, good with and against beasts, efficeient melee but not OP.  Use of ranged to distract and kite in 'oops my tank just took a dirt nap" moments.  Kiting enhanced by use of snares/traps.  Traps that aid dmg and can be across full suite of elemental bases to give bonus. 

    • 134 posts
    December 7, 2015 5:24 PM PST

    Hey Narben, I just posted a general post in the general forums on classes and gear based on this discussion. I'd be interested to see your thoughts on it, but I think it goes larger than just the ranger class so I took the conversation over there! I think your ideas for the ranger are interesting and not something I'd be opposed to playing. I also liked what my EQ ranger became by the end. I'm sure the devs are going to find a cool balance no matter what, but when they come to fleshing out classes, I do admit I'm a lot more interested in a fast moving combat archer after watching the lars video which puts my views more similar to yours!

    • 258 posts
    December 10, 2015 9:51 PM PST

    We need some raid bosses that apply a debuff called "Butt of All Jokes" that only effects rangers.  This debuff temporarily nerfs the rangers effectiveness in...well, everything.  While the debuff is active, the raid boss starts telling ranger jokes.  When the debuff expires, the ranger gets a gigantic "REROLL" button that is literally the size of their entire screen.

    I joke, I kid... I do miss making fun of rangers.  They really had a rough time in early EQ, but we loved them all the same. Poor little fellas. ;)

    In all seriousness, I love the suggestions.  Bringing tracking back would be huge.

    • 71 posts
    January 18, 2016 12:51 PM PST

    Thanks for the replies guys. Here I my thoughts on some of your replies:

    Narben4: I disagree with you. As others pointed out, my list is very similar to what the PoP era EQ1 ranger was. Now granted, the balance of a class should not depend on my appeal to the validity of a different game than Pantheon. With that said, let's look at the role of the EQ1 ranger. I raided very heavily on EQMac, which was locked in the PoP era. During this time, rangers were considered a very powerful class, but I don't know anyone that considered them overpowered when compared to other classes. And yes, with good gear, they could tank in a pinch. I think we even successfully had a ranger tank Xegony one time.  They had - situationally - some of the highest dps in the game. They were a great melee class, and had great utility. With that said, you did not see a huge over-saturation of rangers running around. Why? Because of the AMAZING class diversity EQ had. Class selection meant so much more than tank/healing/dps. Every. Single. Class. was desired in that game for one reason or another. With that much diversity, you can get away with making a class like the ranger, with all its skills and abilities, and not ruin game balance.

    Also, you asked about why/how were rangers underpowered before the PoP era. There are a few answers to that, but the primary one would be AAs (There were no AAs prior to Luclin). AAs gave archery a very potent role in the game, made ranger nukes do some actual damage, and made them able to tank in a pinch, and easily tank in exp groups (assuming you had the gear for it). The other answer to that question was their melee potency. During Velious, Verant realized rangers were underpowered, and gave them a big bonus to their ATK in the following patch:

    October 8, 2001

    - Rangers have their Double Attack skill cap raised to 245. They have
    also gained an innate offensive bonus that starts at level 55 and
    increases until level 60. Ranger's Defense skill cap has been raised to
    220, and their Riposte skill cap has been raised to 185.

    When they did this, rangers now had the highest attack in the game compared to other classes at max level (assuming comparable gear). Rangers who weren't used to doing so much damage started dishing out actual damage, and therefore started taking aggro and dying a lot. This definitely contributed to all the dead ranger jokes out there!

    Arksien: I somewhat disagree with your desire to make melee the primary source of dps. For me to get the maximum enjoyment out of a fantasy rpg of any kind, I got to have a class who's ultimate strength is with a bow. And looking at Pantheon's class list, the ranger looks to be the only option for that role. I do agree, however, that archery should be situational. There should be some kind of game mechanic that creates incentive for the ranger to pull out his/her swords and go toe to toe. For a ranger to maximize their potential, they should have to utilize archery and melee depending on the situation.

    I agree with you about their spells. In Planes Of Power, ranger nukes were fast casting and were VERY much worth casting, especially with nuke AAs. So that was a slight improvement. But ya, synergizing ranger offensive spells with other pure caster spells could be a cool concept for sure.

     Dekaden: Playing a ranger as your main gives you thick skin, as the jokes were always relentless. I remember one time in Plane of Earth, I got rezzed into a group of baby armidillos that only conned light blue, but being freshly rezzed and naked meant pretty much an instant death. I never heard the end of it, up until the day Al'kabor got shut down, *cries*.

     


    This post was edited by Linkamus at January 18, 2016 1:17 PM PST
    • 23 posts
    January 19, 2016 12:15 PM PST

    Arksien: I somewhat disagree with your desire to make melee the primary source of dps. For me to get the maximum enjoyment out of a fantasy rpg of any kind, I got to have a class who's ultimate strength is with a bow. And looking at Pantheon's class list, the ranger looks to be the only option for that role. I do agree, however, that archery should be situational. There should be some kind of game mechanic that creates incentive for the ranger to pull out his/her swords and go toe to toe. For a ranger to maximize their potential, they should have to utilize archery and melee depending on the situation.

     

    Disagree with this pretty heavily. Without knowing all the in game mechanics, Rangers should be able to pick what weapon they want to spec in - be it 2 handed or 2 weapons or ranged. As I posted in another thread - the range in ranger is not referring to weapon style it is to where they spend most of their time.  I could talk more to what utilities they should have if I knew more about the game but they should have survival skills - be it urban or rural. If that is spells or skills or whatever that is fine and that is what should set them apart from other pure dps classes. Speaking on class dependency (something this game needs to live off of) they should have skills that make them "wanted" in raids and in groups. 

     

    Anyway good discussions.

     

    Sab

    ECI Ranger

    • 71 posts
    January 20, 2016 6:13 AM PST

    Sabatour said:

    Arksien: I somewhat disagree with your desire to make melee the primary source of dps. For me to get the maximum enjoyment out of a fantasy rpg of any kind, I got to have a class who's ultimate strength is with a bow. And looking at Pantheon's class list, the ranger looks to be the only option for that role. I do agree, however, that archery should be situational. There should be some kind of game mechanic that creates incentive for the ranger to pull out his/her swords and go toe to toe. For a ranger to maximize their potential, they should have to utilize archery and melee depending on the situation.

     

    Disagree with this pretty heavily. Without knowing all the in game mechanics, Rangers should be able to pick what weapon they want to spec in - be it 2 handed or 2 weapons or ranged. As I posted in another thread - the range in ranger is not referring to weapon style it is to where they spend most of their time.  I could talk more to what utilities they should have if I knew more about the game but they should have survival skills - be it urban or rural. If that is spells or skills or whatever that is fine and that is what should set them apart from other pure dps classes. Speaking on class dependency (something this game needs to live off of) they should have skills that make them "wanted" in raids and in groups. 

     

    Anyway good discussions.

     

    Sab

    ECI Ranger

    I would be fine with this as well!! Being able to choose whether or not you spec in archery or melee primarily could be cool too. I prefer the EQ1 ranger approach, obviously, but this would also be cool.

    • 251 posts
    February 8, 2016 12:20 AM PST

    Sabatour said:

    Disagree with this pretty heavily. Without knowing all the in game mechanics, Rangers should be able to pick what weapon they want to spec in - be it 2 handed or 2 weapons or ranged. As I posted in another thread - the range in ranger is not referring to weapon style it is to where they spend most of their time.  I could talk more to what utilities they should have if I knew more about the game but they should have survival skills - be it urban or rural. If that is spells or skills or whatever that is fine and that is what should set them apart from other pure dps classes. Speaking on class dependency (something this game needs to live off of) they should have skills that make them "wanted" in raids and in groups. 

    I strongly agree with this.  Somewhere along the line ranger's in MMO's got turned into this 'master of ranged dps' which really isn't consistent with the lore the class is based on.  I personally think they should be great swordsmen and very durable fighters, but I'm sure how they get implemented in Pantheon will have a lot to do with the nature of the content that's provided.  Taking the EQ ranger as an example, they were fairly durable and had decent dps, so along with their utility they were great in group content.  However, in raids there were many expansions where they couldn't bring much to the table because they weren't tuned to do the dps of the other dps classes, and didn't tank well enough to serve in that role in raid content.  Not to say I didn't show up on parses in raids, or never took hits from boss mobs, but in general, you'd get better dps from a rogue or better survivability from a knight (and I'm not saying it shouldn't be that way).  Invariably this would lead to periods where ranger dps got overtuned and then the class became overpowered.  My personal hope is that the real difference in Pantheon will be raid content that's more involved than just tank-and-spank on a single hard-hitting mob all the time.  For me, the events in EQ that were the most fun were the chaotic ones that meant that sometimes I had to focus on dps, or sometimes I had to keep my eyes open for a loose mini or trash mob and lock it down for a while.  Or even throw out a heal from time to time.  One of the biggest shortcoming of a lot of EQ's raid content was that it didn't really incorporate mechanics that made use of class-specific abilities.  I can think of only a handful of events that ever made use of tracking, for instance.  And post-Luclin, how many events required rogues to pick locks, and when did an event ever require a druid to port (other than getting to the next event, a utility that was lost when the guild hall porting pad was introduced)?  If raids in Pantheon don't make use of class-specific abilities, then rangers will need to have their dps tuned to every other dps class and I'm afraid that will come at the cost of other abilities that the ranger should possess.

    • 109 posts
    August 11, 2016 1:35 PM PDT

    I mained a ranger back in EQ1.  I played on a PvP server so I geared him a bit differently out of nessecity.  My ranger only used a 2hander, wore a mix of HP and resist gear instead of DEX gear.   In PvP, I played him more like a Shadowknight.  

    In PvE, I would use the swarmcaller (proc slow), switch to a big damage 2hander, have my damage-shield up and regen, and would tank some group stuff (light blues to certain dark blues).  Yes I died some, but it was fun.

    My point is I chose to break the mold of a "Legolas" style bow kiter. 

    I hope to have such options in Pantheon aswell.

     


    This post was edited by Greattaste at August 11, 2016 1:45 PM PDT
    • 515 posts
    August 11, 2016 7:35 PM PDT

    And dont forget their most important ability!  Ranger port!

    • 270 posts
    September 7, 2016 6:46 PM PDT
    damage 2hander, have my damage-shield up and regen, and would tank some group stuff (light blues to certain dark blues). Yes I died some, but it was fun.
    My point is I chose to break the mold of a "Legolas" style bow kiter.
    I hope to have such options in Pantheon aswell.

    Exactly how i played as well and it was a blast! I'd also pull if harmony could be used and cc with root if needed. Honestly wont roll a ranger if it's archery based. Not appealing to me. Especially if arrows are consumable.
    • 4 posts
    November 1, 2016 5:16 PM PDT

    Is it confirmed the Ranger will be a pet using class?  I'm not a pet lover myself so will not using a pet make me too weak to bother or will there be options for non pet Rangers?

    • 474 posts
    November 3, 2016 2:08 PM PDT

    I really would hope that the Ranger is not a pet class. What I would love to see is a spell or ability that would allow the Ranger to summon a pet for support purposes. A wolf that would allow you to "Bind Sight" and then control the pet to do recon. The wolf would be immune to agro from animals, making the Ranger the prime scout while outdoors. Maybe make it a hawk instead and allow it to be completely agro immune?

    Summon a unicorn or wild horse as a mount, with a fixed duration, that would be comparable to purchasable mounts speed that do not have a fixed duration. This would add a little something to the class while not being entirely overboard. Yes they get a free mount but it can only be used for 5-10 minutes and the cooldown would be... 15-20 minutes maybe? If you want a mount that will not expire you'd need to obtain one through the same means as everyone else.

    Summon a Lynx that would allow a higher rate of regen, both HP and Mana for the group. Out of combat regen only of course, combat would cause the pet to despawn. Cooldown timer of say 5 minutes. Everyone feels more relaxed and healthier when petting a kitty right?

    There could be others, but this would allow the Ranger something unique and nature based without being a right out combat pet for those who do not wish to have a pet and don't want to suffer in DPS.

    In anycase I would fore sure be a Ranger as my go to class.

    • 101 posts
    December 9, 2016 10:19 PM PST

    I believe the ranger must ABSOLUTELY not be primarily a physical ranged DPS class.  Create an archer if that is desired.  Rangers in almost every fantasy setting is a melee class.  Jack of all trades, master of none...other than weilding various weapons.

    For this fact, I love the EQ ranger class and even though I played all other classes in EQ, the ranger was always first and foremost in my heart.  It would do this game a disservice to have an exact copy of the EQ ranger for Pantheon, but I do agree that a lot of aspects of the EQ ranger should be brought forward and possibly tweaked if required.

    As for tanking: Archers shouldn't be tanks, but rangers should be a chain wearing tank.  Rangers will not have the mitigation of plate classes but should be able to tank single group content.  Let the beefy badboy tanks have all the raids and uber bosses, but there will be a need for a lower tiered tank when no plate tanks are available. 

    Having the group trinity means that if there is no tank, there is no group.  Every group role should have viable substitutes if no primary classes are available.  It just allows the group to continue to have fun when someone has to leave.

    • 10 posts
    December 14, 2016 1:12 PM PST

    I agree with many of the ideas in this thread and even with many of the rebuttals against the ideas I liked! I'd like to see rangers be able to use both melee and archery based on the situation. Maybe have archery be a slower but sustained DPS due to being at a "safer" distance and their melee damage be more burst and get out of the way. Some sort of aggro reduction ability would be nice too so long as other DPS classes like the rogue/monk will get one as well (Feign Death/Vanish). 

    I also played during the early days of EQ1 when rangers were a pure joke. I REALLY hope that this won't be the case at release in PRotF.  Ranger's lacked a real role in the early days just as many have already stated. I think the whole "hybrid" idea in general is kind of a bust since in most cases almost any class will and could, in an emergency, jump and or change roles within reason. If the tank goes down and the rogue/wizard gets aggro how many times have we seen them kite tank?

    I'm totally on board with tracking being a HUGE skill for rangers. I'd really like to see rangers sliding into a "main puller" role like the Monks/SK's/Bards of EQ1. Let rangers have the edge when pulling outdoors while monks have it on the indoor maps. Give rangers some nice mob splitting and or single pull abilities like a "Distracting Shot" AoE that he could fire into a group to debuff them and then single out one NPC. I'd even really be okay with a feign death type ability, could give it a more "rangery" name like "Playing Opossum" or something to that effect.  Traps would also be a neat idea used to split mobs: snares, pits, spike traps could work well so long as their CD's weren't garbage.

    I'm not really a fan of rangers being "half Druids" either. If rangers are going to have spells those spells should be more or less unique to the ranger and focus mainly on things a woodsman would have like: run/swim speed increase, enduring breath, night vision, resists to various elements, charm animals, ect… I like the idea of having a pet that can be summoned and used for various purposes such as like a DoT for DPS or as already stated before certain animals will give/create specific effects. I'd like to see rangers being able to charm animals as use for temporary DPS pets as well much as the Enchanters did in EQ2. Any NPC mob with an "animal" archetype up to the caster's level could be charmed and used to fight with. This would also give a rangers a bit of an edge in outdoor zones since that’s where you typically will find said creatures.

    All in all, I think that for rangers to be a viable and competing class they need a skill that only they or one other class can bring to the group that makes it worth adding them.  DPS alone won't do it if Rogues/Monks/Wizards are the better option for DPS. Tanking won't do it if Knights/Warriors are always going to be the better option. If I have learned anything in my two decades of playing MMO's it's that the vast majority will always want the "optimal" group and most will wait and or hold out until they fill each spot with the "meta" archetype (it's sad but true). With the focus of PRotF being heavily into community and group content each of the classes need to have something that makes you wish you had a 7th spot in your group. 

    • 26 posts
    December 15, 2016 10:57 PM PST

    I think that the Ranger class should be geared more toward the Support role. We know Patheon will have a quaternary system (Tank, Heal, Damage, Support) and will include 12 classes at launch. We know that each role will be equally important and the developers have really been stressing that the quaternary system will be a staple to a group composition. With this is mind, let's assume that the classes are split equally between the 4 roles.

    Tank - Warrior, Crusader, Dire Lord

    Heal - Cleric, Druid, Shaman

    Damage - Rogue, Monk, Wizard

    Support - Enchanter, Ranger, Summoner

    That being said, a few cool ideas that could be added to the Ranger class to give them some extra flavor would be to allow for Warden like abilities. Be able to mind control out door creatures would be cool. Also taming animals to perform various activities akin to taming a bird to scout ahead. 

    Personally I do not like the idea of the Ranger being a "Legolas" type class. I like the "Aragon" type Ranger more. Vesristle with multiple weapons including the bow. Ability to track. Perhaps the ability to tame animals as pets for DPS/Support, maybe has Warden-like abilities. I think if pulling is an aspect of the game, that the Ranger class should be the best and go to "Pull" class.

    I diffenitely think the Ranger should be utilizing traps and split pulls, etc. I think that if the Ranger is a Support class (which I strongly think they will be), then they will need to have lots of cool utility spells. I think Rangers are to be scouts, pullers, CC with traps, make use of tamed animals to either off-tank or DPS, can support DPS in either range or melee depending on the situation, be able to root adds, be able to grant speed buffs to allies, etc. 

    They need to be on par with the support that an Enchanter can supply to the group, but in a way that makes sense to the lore and class mechanics or a Ranger. I think a support Ranger is much more interesting then a weak melee DPS or the WoW Hunter class.


    This post was edited by Korashi at December 15, 2016 11:19 PM PST