Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Appearance Gear and Weapons

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    • 48 posts
    September 9, 2016 8:48 AM PDT

    I'm not a fan of appearance gear at all, but I would make one exception. Allow non-stat appearance gear that people can wear in place of their fighting gear around town. You could even make it craftable-only to give tradeskillers a unique marketable ability. It would have to be game appropriate, but it could be fancy 'dress up' style clothing. In some ways it would even be more realistic. Who's going to go to a social event in a full suit of armor?

    • 393 posts
    September 9, 2016 5:33 PM PDT

    tachyon said:

    I'm not a fan of appearance gear at all, but I would make one exception. Allow non-stat appearance gear that people can wear in place of their fighting gear around town. You could even make it craftable-only to give tradeskillers a unique marketable ability. It would have to be game appropriate, but it could be fancy 'dress up' style clothing. In some ways it would even be more realistic. Who's going to go to a social event in a full suit of armor?

    Pretty straightforward and it makes so much sense to have crafter's influence on items. Falls in-line with the idea of a having a player driven economy. It must fit the game visually.

    Allow for dyeing. Also influenced by crafters. Blacksmithers can dye heavy armor, leather workers can dye leathers, etc. Possibly allow dyes for dropped loot with exceptions.

    Because of the necessity of situational gear, I think keeping the gear system as simple as possible would be a good thing.

    Please don't allow for people to rush off into combat wearing dressy city clothes.

    I want cloaks.


    This post was edited by OakKnower at September 9, 2016 5:41 PM PDT
  • Luf
    • 7 posts
    September 10, 2016 10:05 PM PDT

    Anasyn said:

    Lets not take a step backwards when a developer can easily create a solution that fits every bodies needs.

    The developers could create an option to view items people are wearing or their appearance slot. The user decides what gear they want to view. Kinda like using old Everquest models or the new Models it should be up to the user what they view.

     

    This ^

    A simple toggle option so players who do not want to see 'appearance' based gear will see a players true gear. This will have a 2 birds 1 stone effect by allowing for an in-game shop to sell appearance through microtransactions, keeping the game well funded and alive for all, while allowing those who disagree with the apperances to enjoy their preferred visuals.

    • 690 posts
    February 10, 2017 2:24 AM PST

    Gear to me should be realistic yet awesome. I'd post a picture suggesting my idea, but alas, it has curses on it.

    The picture found on any image search with "wrpg vs jrpg" is of your average rpg hero, and of a hero from Dark Souls. 

    The average hero, though decent in looks, has no realism at all about him.. no helmet (though i dont mind an invisible helmet feature!) spiky fingers that would mess up your bum hole if you scratched, weird spiky... armor joint protrusions, a pointless cold-colorless cape, belt spikes, a completely uncovered sword arm, etc.

    The dark souls character has a sheath for his sword, a surcoat, a pouch, extra shield arm protection, a full helmet, and even a neck warmer since the armor set came from a cold area. And on top of all the things you might find on a cold guy in knight's gear, he even looks AWESOME. 

    I always reference dark souls or modded skyrim when I post about character fashion=) but with good reason. I do hope some effort is put into our gear to make it customizable, realistic, and have some very tasteful skins. 

    P.S. Dont forget the surcoats/tabards!!


    This post was edited by BeaverBiscuit at February 10, 2017 2:25 AM PST
    • 187 posts
    February 10, 2017 4:36 AM PST

    I was initially of the feeling that I would not want this. I really loved in EQ where "high end" items were known and distinct. Looking at a bard in full Lambent in any zone of the game, you KNEW what that bard had accomplished. Then people started coloring their plate blue and every bard ran around in 'full lambent' even at lvl 5.

    So my first instinct is to say, "Please keep it epic and knowable to all."

    But lately, seeing the "women" characters and how androgynous they are, and hoping there will be some feminine looking armor in the game... I now want to transmog ONLY so I can look like a recognizable woman instead of looking androgynous. :(

    The sense of 'self' or perhaps reflection of the self through your character should not be compromised. If women are going to be androgynous and men are going to be beefcakes, then I really do want to wear clothing that allows people to immediately recognize my character as feminine. I HATE to say that, because my feelings on "recognizability = prestige" is really SO strong.

    • 3 posts
    February 10, 2017 10:29 PM PST

    I'd have to say I also fall into the camp of being wary of the concept of appearance gear. Seeing specific pieces of equipment on a character and learning something about where they are in their journey seems like such a great feature to me, and one very easy to remove with addition of re-skinning to the game. I think talk of obnoxious novelty skins is a bit of hyperbole, but I can easily see people changing their armor to look like a favorite, recognizable low-level set and if I were grouped with that person during high-level combat I would personally feel more than a bit annoyed.

    Crafted armor seems like a perfect system to introduce customization via colors and designs, considering that if someone is making something, they should be able to affect the end-product. But, I would also be bothered if an 'average' piece of armor with stats for a certain level looked like unique, epic, or low-level equipment.

    If re-skinning was implemented, I feel like the personal toggle to show all worn gear as 'true' would be the most ideal, but I would also mention that I would play on a server that didn't allow it, if available. 

    For me, I guess it comes down to a fear of well-meaning feature-creep. Take WoW, for example. I don't know exactly when the game I used to like turned into something I no longer desire to play, but nearly every time something was added for convenience or accessibility, I thought it was a good-enough idea with little downside.

    • 284 posts
    February 11, 2017 8:28 AM PST

    For me the problem with glamour is not necessarily that people would swap their appearance to even cohesive lower or alternative armor sets that are at least plausible for the dungeon setting. The problem lies entirely where people (and people will do this all the time, it's the most popular use of this feature) use joke armor set gear. Nothing looks worse than doing some story quest and that one guy rolls up in his underwear appearance armor with the goofiest helm possible. It's one of those things where, for me, you get snapped right out of the suspension of disbelief. I just hate the idea entirely.

    I like the idea of town gear though, perhaps even a set of slots you can hotswap to in towns and other safe havens. I'd just prefer not to have people in full mascot suits running around dark dungeons, just one game where the game has enough respect for its own setting.

    If they're going to do cosmetic stuff it could be in the form of things like:

    1. Since light sources (at least torches, hopefully more stuff) will be a thing, perhaps you could have a wide variety of cool looking torches / lanterns / magical sources that are functionally the same but have different appearances. This gives them latitude to make some rare versions that people can use to match with armor.
    2. Mount barding. Works well in FFXIV, although I'd assume it'd be more realistic here than adding random spikes everywhere.
    3. Maybe limited dyes. This one is borderline, since a hot pink surcoat is close to the underwear jackass, but as long as it was conservatively allowed it seems like not so much of a problem.

    As long as appearance options don't lead to my nightmare scenario I'm pretty cool with it.

    • 3 posts
    February 11, 2017 9:27 AM PST

    @Jimmayus

    I totally agree, a joke armor set would totally put me off if I saw it. I was just trying to explain that even a well-meaning re-skin would bother me. Anything past that would be progressively worse in my eyes. I like your other ideas as well. I hope a happy balance can be struck.

    • 151 posts
    February 11, 2017 9:32 AM PST

    It would be neat if merchants in town were leary of armed customers and gave you a better price if you were in town garb instead of armored up.

    • 563 posts
    February 11, 2017 10:55 AM PST

    Maximis said:

    It would be neat if merchants in town were leary of armed customers and gave you a better price if you were in town garb instead of armored up.

    This is a very cool idea :D I can see maybe the blacksmth not caring to much but don't go into the bread shop looking like you might cut them down :P

    • 999 posts
    February 11, 2017 11:30 AM PST

    Rachael said:

    Maximis said:

    It would be neat if merchants in town were leary of armed customers and gave you a better price if you were in town garb instead of armored up.

    This is a very cool idea :D I can see maybe the blacksmth not caring to much but don't go into the bread shop looking like you might cut them down :P

    This is a very cool idea - an expansion of the charisma attribute.  And you could take it a step further also and if a system like diplomacy was implemented an ogre dread in plate my be more likely to "intimidate" than have slight of hand, conversation etc.

    • 1618 posts
    February 11, 2017 1:17 PM PST

    IMHO, in a fantasy world where laws are not well enforced, rogues and monsters are everywhere, why would ANYONE walk around town without a weapon? You would be a target for all the rogues.

    Maybe not full armor, but definitely armed. Of course, most games, including old school DND used the excuse that magical armor automatically adjusted touch your size and comfort, so people could wear it all the time.

    In most fantasy/Renaissance,  people normally walked around armed. It's only our modern society that disagrees with carrying weapons when shopping.

    • 399 posts
    February 11, 2017 2:12 PM PST

    Great posts. Great memories.

    Here's my input.

    1) Dropped gear's appearance should not be able to be changed.

    2) Crafted gear's appearance should be able to be changed but moreso than just a color. 

     -  Would it not be awesome if there was a way (perhaps a game within a game) which would allow crafters to truly give their crafted gear a unique appearance in such a way that that particular pattern could only be created by that particular crafter? So that, if someone wanted that particular cloak, robe or armor set, they'd have to contact that one crafter? Isn't that how it would really work?
     

    • 284 posts
    February 11, 2017 3:25 PM PST
    Durp the last thing is probably just not feasible. It would require modeling each unique version of the gear which is just way too much to ask.
    • 120 posts
    February 11, 2017 8:06 PM PST

    Sorry, not really reading the last 12 pages, but please don't make this EQ 2.0 when it comes to gear. One of, if not the biggest turn offs in EQ for me was EQ after Luclin and how armor ALWAYS looked the same (till recently obviously). It was dull and made upgrading gear not as exciting.

    • 47 posts
    February 11, 2017 9:31 PM PST

    Please do not include an appearance type system!  It pulls away from immersion because instead of people seeing your gear for your acoomplishments, everyone just uses to "coolest" appearance and everyone ends up looking the same!

    • 134 posts
    February 11, 2017 11:46 PM PST

    I want NO appearance gear.

     

    toop said:

    Anasyn said:

    Lets not take a step backwards when a developer can easily create a solution that fits every bodies needs.

    The developers could create an option to view items people are wearing or their appearance slot. The user decides what gear they want to view. Kinda like using old Everquest models or the new Models it should be up to the user what they view.

     

    This ^

    A simple toggle option so players who do not want to see 'appearance' based gear will see a players true gear. This will have a 2 birds 1 stone effect by allowing for an in-game shop to sell appearance through microtransactions, keeping the game well funded and alive for all, while allowing those who disagree with the apperances to enjoy their preferred visuals.

     

    This also opens the door for all the cool looking armor to be cash shop. We aren't getting a cash shop.


    This post was edited by Dhampir at February 12, 2017 12:15 AM PST
    • 39 posts
    February 12, 2017 12:11 AM PST
    Another vote for no appearance gear here. One of the most motivating things in EQ for me was seeing the first player decked out in rubicite. Kind of loses its effect when you can dye armor.
    • 399 posts
    February 12, 2017 3:53 PM PST

    Jimmayus said: Durp the last thing is probably just not feasible. It would require modeling each unique version of the gear which is just way too much to ask.

    Probably is the key word here Jimmaymus.  Hence the reason I said "wouldn't it be awespme...." 

    I do however feel strongly that crafted items should be customizable.  Perhaps, like some have said, just appearance items without stats.  As a crafter, I have many ideas that would not take away from the immersive feel of an mmorpg, yet would make crafting so much more fun.  But, that's for another thread.

    I would like for sure a date/person/server stamp on the first time some item was looted/crafted (for bragging rights, to eliminate disputes as to who was first etc. but also to reward those who put in extra effort into whatever it was that got him/her that item.  That should not be hard. It should be available on a /inspect (but perhaps on a separate tab under /inspect?)

    • 159 posts
    February 12, 2017 4:12 PM PST

    While I normally use appearance slots in games with them I'm very happy to pass on them.  What I'd like is what swtor has (had?  It's been awhile), the ability to make your gear match the color of your chest armor.  I personally loathe the walking tin clown effect of mismatched armor.  Brad pointed out if you wear a mithril BP then everyone should know in his opinion.....That's great, but let the rest of my gear match it.

     

    This and hide helm and I'm all set.


    This post was edited by Xilshale at February 12, 2017 4:12 PM PST
    • 15 posts
    February 16, 2017 7:48 PM PST

    *begins incantation to necro old thread*

    I would like a system to change appearnace for role-play reasons. I plan on playing a Human Druid, and have always imagined him to be a simple guy who does his work in exchange for donations. Donations like food and water, cast off gear, the odd gem or so. I want to deal in cash as little as possible. I also really would like to have a simple look. I don't want to be a flashy guy with "cool" looking gear. My dream outfit would be plain brown robes. =)

    One thing I liked about Aion was the ability to skin my gear. I played a chanter and had him skinned to wear simple "kungfu" pants and shirt instead of the more ornate, flashy stuff.


    This post was edited by kdavis at February 16, 2017 7:49 PM PST
    • 8 posts
    February 16, 2017 10:59 PM PST

    The problem is that a lot of people think last top tier gear will have the best appearence in game.

    This is wrong, I played Eq / Eq2 long enough to know this is not the case, because art design is by definition subjective.

    What can be great for some, will be bad for others.

    That is why an appearence system (in a way or another) is now implemented in most games.

    Personnaly I don't ask to be able to wear exotic clothes that don't match Terminus design, but I would like to be able to use as appearence the gear I loot at previous Tiers.

    And for those who absolutely do not want to see appearence gear, a toggle option can always be added...

     

    • 763 posts
    February 16, 2017 11:27 PM PST

    The appearance of gear is, naturally, subjective!

    From what Kilsin and others (Brad etc) seem to be saying :
    1.  More powerful gear will have a more 'powerful' look,
         i.e. higher level characters will look the part,
    2.  Individual pieces will (hopefully) be visible on your character,
         i.e. you can see the scarf on your model as you wear it -
         - though obviously can't have a 1:1 item:look ratio!!

    Personally, I hope they have a system somewhat like (i.e. plagiarised from) TERA (i think it was) where you could find/make a 'crafting template' from a piece of gear, then combine (craft) this template with another (compatible) piece of gear to create something with the stats of the 2nd item, but the look of the 1st.

    This, I feel, would add another strong string to the crafting bow (for tailors/armourers etc). If making templates was not trivial, but required the destructive reverse-engineering of many examples of the item/gear whose look you want to capture in the template, then this too would be good from a game perspective as it would remove items (and, hence, their value) from the game.

    There would need to be limitations, obviously. Only 'like -> like' (cloth to cloth, leather to leather etc) and perhaps exclude some more powerful or unique items (eg Epics or Aradunes 'Fiery Sword of OP-ness').

     

    Evoras, thinks this could also be extended to the 'look' of pets...

    • 2752 posts
    February 17, 2017 10:59 AM PST

    I'm alright with glamour/transmog if it only applies to you. So you see your character in whatever outfit you want but others see you in whatever armor you are actually wearing. 

    • 56 posts
    February 17, 2017 11:57 AM PST

    Iksar said:

    I'm alright with glamour/transmog if it only applies to you. So you see your character in whatever outfit you want but others see you in whatever armor you are actually wearing. 

    I like this idea. As for the poll on the first page of the thread I can't really vote in it because I don't use facebook.