Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Appearance Gear and Weapons

This topic has been closed.
    • 9115 posts
    September 21, 2015 3:35 AM PDT

    Appearance gear and weapons - Do you like being able to change your characters appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons, even if a few others have it too?

     

    http://on.fb.me/1FXb6sp

    • 79 posts
    September 21, 2015 3:53 AM PDT

    In my opinion, being able to have gear appear to be other gear is one of the worst features you could have in a MMO.

    • 308 posts
    September 21, 2015 4:07 AM PDT

    i like the idea that if i do a raid and get "Chestplate of Awesomesauce" It has a special look. i dont want someones banded mail to be able to look like my "Chestplate of Awesomesauce". even if the appearance items have graphics that are all their own, you shouldnt be able to dress in rags and still look like the king of a country.

     

    so no for appearance items. maybe illusion items, with effects like clickie skeleton illusions, or things like clickable aura items that just make clouds or butterflies float around you, but nothing to cover up the gear.

    • 1434 posts
    September 21, 2015 4:20 AM PDT
    Happytrees said:

    In my opinion, being able to have gear appear to be other gear is one of the worst features you could have in a MMO.

    I agree with this in part.

     

    I like the idea of being able to change an item somewhat, but not simply hide an item you are using while showing another you are not. It seems pretty silly in EQ2 with casters running around with plate armor and warriors tanking in robes. However, I did like the ability to dye armors in other games.

     

    I am all for realism when it comes to this. If something like "Appearance Gear" is used, I believe its crucial for every client to have the option of hiding appearance gear. Especially when it comes to PvP or looking at potential members you group or raid with, its nice to see that people are using the appropriate items, without having to inspect them. 

     

     


    This post was edited by Dullahan at October 7, 2015 11:16 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    September 21, 2015 4:51 AM PDT

    I share the same opinion as you guys, I think appearance gear is great as long as you have to remove your armour and replace it with appearance gear/weapons, I do not personally think they should replace the skin of the earned armour.


    For example, if I want to put on a hooded robe as a Rogue and walk around towns looking shifty and eyeballing peoples pockets, I would need to remove my awesome raiding armour gear and lose all the benefits associated with it to wear the robe. this allows role playing and customisation to a degree without breaking immersion or allowing OP players running around in rags or cloth armour while tanking tough mobs etc.


    Appearance is pretty important in my opinion and this is my personal opinion, I don't speak on behalf of the team. just sharing my thoughts as I see a lot seem to agree on these forums and FB ;)

    • 338 posts
    September 21, 2015 5:33 AM PDT

    Let me start by saying that I am absolutely against appearance gear in the way most games have implemented it with another rag doll that you can fill up with the gear that is showing...

     

    But one thing I really liked was in an unlikely game called Warhammer Online... they had features where you could dye some parts of your armor that made sense but the big thing were trinkets...

     

    Trinkets were little embellishments that could be placed in a tiny slot on some of your armor pieces like belts and shoulders and I thought this was cool as hell and totally original.

     

    Are you a paladin well maybe you would seek out holy trinkets or are you a shaman well you're gonna need some shrunken heads to go on your belt or staff.

     

    I know this is probably hard to implement but I really thought it was a cool way of giving characters diversity without ruining armor looks with appearance gear.

     

     

    Thanks for reading and I'd like to hear more opinions on this,

    Kiz~

    • 999 posts
    September 21, 2015 5:38 AM PDT

    I'm against dyes and other appearance changing items as I liked the prestige you could gain in Vanilla EQ from gear/weapon recognition - it added another dimension to immersion.  In games where I've seen appearance changing items, gear was much less recognizable . However, some of that recognition in EQ was due to there being very minimal gear/gear sets at launch - if Pantheon is as vast of of a world as VG, then, by nature, due to the abundance of gear, that recognition would be less.

     

    I think this topic actually falls in line with another as well though in that I'd rather there be fewer, but more recognizable/memorable gear options, than tons of rare/epic items that become watered down.  I realize without instancing (for the record I want no instancing), there would be arguments that there wouldn't be enough gear/camp spots, but I think that's another discussion as well by having non-static spawns, or multiple spawn points for named mobs, etc.

     

    With all that said, if "Appearance Gear" is a separate gear set for roleplay, then I would be ok with it as long as the clothing reduced the appropriate stats and wouldn't create a blending of classes.   Example... a rogue wearing only a Hooded Black Robe gives +5 to Hide/Sneak skill while detracting AC, etc. from not wearing armor.  The only issue I see with it is carrying yet another gear set.  If Pantheon requires Resist Gear, Appearance Gear, Adventuring Gear, Crafting Gear, etc. then it would be teetering on overkill.

    • 11 posts
    September 21, 2015 6:41 AM PDT

    I think separating the two is vital. There should be an appearance tab that can kick in when not in combat. It's an easy investment for massive sandbox replay-ability. RP'ers need this, and well pretty much necessary for a game that's supposed to be social...

    do you all go to BBQ's and birthday party's in your work clothes?

    When you're in a major city you need to stand down, you need to disarm your weapons either at the gates or at the inn door.

    I do agree I don't want to see a mage wearing full plate. But I haven't seen that really. Even in WoW, you could only transmorg (whatever it was called) in the same class (cloth, leather, plate, dagger, 1 hammer..etc). It was also a reason to do old content, so it added replay-ability to old content, and I believe that was a major reason listed for adding it to the game.

    And more to the point what if you just loved or had the best memories of defeating a dungeon or rare or etc... why not be allowed to put that plate armor appearance onto your newest raid armor? its your choice... if you cant undo... So I don't see the harm.

    With rational rules, an appearance tab on the character sheet or a transmorph gear ability is great for social interactions, can be a gold sink for the economy etc. etc. I think then every type of player can get what they want.

    • 1434 posts
    September 21, 2015 6:49 AM PDT

    Just wanted to +1 Kilsin's suggestion. I like the idea of wearing items solely for the look, as long as it takes the place of your normal equipment you'd wear in combat. It would be neat if there were different forms of casual and formal wear that could be crafted or purchased, or perhaps special sets that become available in a city given the necessary faction. Maybe a set of guard armor or a robe worn by class trainers.

    • 83 posts
    September 21, 2015 7:54 AM PDT

    Would come down how many different looks the various armor sets have, seeing 20 warriors look exactly the same does get old at some point, being able to dye the more common stuff like crafted items might be an option, another but much more development heavy option, would be to make armors look different on each race ie. bp of awesome on a human looks nothing like the ogre version.

     

    Cloaks might be a good slot where you can allow a pure cosmetic cloak to replace look of your stat cloak, with a hood up/down toggle, that one slot alone could give a set of armor several looks/feel to it, add in option to dye 1 or 2 portions of the cloak for even more variety :)

    • 160 posts
    September 21, 2015 8:02 AM PDT

    The items people earn through regular play - raids, quests etc - should be visible, and that look should not be obtainable by faking it.

     

    I'm even against the ability to dye armor, it usually creates a clash of colors and it's not as recognizable any more.

     

    If you do put appearance items in, at least make it so people have to take off their regular gear and put the appearance items - with no stats or minimal ones - in their place. And appearance items that drastically change how you look - for example, a caster robe that can be equipped by a tank - should be rare and not so easy to obtain (and with no stats or weak caster stats, it should be for role-play, and not be usable as a tank gear)

     

    I'm against adding appearance "trinkets", since every item you can graphically imagine as an add-on, is a possible item slot for real items (for expansions if nothing else), and ideas for real item slots are too precious to waste them on appearance items.

     


    This post was edited by Aethor at October 7, 2015 11:16 AM PDT
    • 179 posts
    September 21, 2015 8:08 AM PDT

    I would honestly have to disagree with everyone above me. :)

    I like the ability to have an appearance slot for my gear and would even like to have an appearance slot for weapons. In saying all this I don't believe you should be able to wear items in your appearance slot that your class can't equip. So for all you casters trying to wear plate. I'm sorry you are stuck wearing dresses. :) 

    When I earn an item like an "Epic weapon" I want to continue showing off that weapon for as long as I please because I'm proud of that achievement. I don't want to enter a new expansion and have one drop in the first dungeon replace that item. I camped out of Everquest not with the highest DPS weapons I had but with the swiftwind/earthcaller equiped on my ranger. I've even downloaded the game just to log into the game and look at those weapons and then camp out. I'll give you another example I wore my APW set on my rogue in VG until the servers were taken down. I enjoyed wearing this set because it looked awesome, I always felt proud wearing it because of the memories of obtaining it with my guild, and because I hated the way the next tiered raiding gear looked. If I don't enjoy the way my character looks for example I don't enjoy the character as much. Their is a reason people spend real money on appearance items in other games.  It makes them enjoy the character more. I don't want a cash shop but I like being able to continue wearing an item I've already obtained/wearable for my class. I also don't mind being able to die armor. It's a perfect addition to a tradeskill.

    Edit

    Somebody mentioned this on Facebook. You can set an option to view items people are wearing or their appearance slot. The user decides what gear they want to view. Kinda like using old Everquest models or the new Models it should be up to the user what they see.


    This post was edited by Anasyn at September 26, 2015 9:23 PM PDT
    • 62 posts
    September 21, 2015 8:13 AM PDT

    What you get is what you wear. I don't think you should be able to keep the appearance of another item by swapping its "skin" with another weapon or armor piece. I DO, however, think that if you find a complete set of armor, it should look SLIGHTLY nicer and better put together than if you just have random pieces of armor on. I also think it would be neat that by having all the same named pieces of armor on, it should bump up all the stats by a significant amount, making it GOOD to wear the matching armor - unless there is that rare solo piece out there that's better.

     

    Just my $0.02

    • 89 posts
    September 21, 2015 8:35 AM PDT

    I'd rather know what someone is wearing just by looking at them.  It gives gear a bit more mystique.  Something is definitely lost in games that allow glamour or appearance gear as compared to EQ.

    • 179 posts
    September 21, 2015 9:10 AM PDT

    Lets not take a step backwards when a developer can easily create a solution that fits every bodies needs.

    The developers could create an option to view items people are wearing or their appearance slot. The user decides what gear they want to view. Kinda like using old Everquest models or the new Models it should be up to the user what they view.

     

    • 79 posts
    September 21, 2015 9:57 AM PDT

    Oh if we are talking about being able to paint items, I definitely don't mind that. I was meaning things like "transmogrify" or whatever it was called in WoW.

    • 1434 posts
    September 21, 2015 10:46 AM PDT

    I really don't see the problem with customizing your items. That breastplate of awesome should be identifiable by more than just its color. I'm hoping we see some unique patterns or ornamentation that will still be recognizable regardless of the color.

     

    Regarding "moving backwards" by doing away with look set items... thats really not a viable argument. In fact, those sort of "progressive" features that moved away from realism are just what most of us hope Pantheon will not emulate.

    • 74 posts
    September 21, 2015 4:18 PM PDT
    Kilsin said:

    Appearance gear and weapons - Do you like being able to change your characters appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons, even if a few others have it too?

     

    Would an /inspect (or similar inspection mechanic) exist if such items existed? 

     

    Personally, I'm not a fan of appearance gear distorting what is actually being worn. It's somewhat immersion breaking with silly costumes being worn during actual combat/technical times. There's a time and a place in my opinion. If there's appearance gear, I'd prefer it have no stats and be an appearance piece or an actual piece. This allows role playing and "event" flair without breaking immersion when out of context.

     

    I've played a lot of games (mostly ones with cash shop appearance items) that take appearance items to an extreme and you'd be in a raid with people dressed as chickens, bobble heads, skateboarding, etc and that sort of stuff taints a game for me visually.

     

    The artists spend time creating an atmosphere or feel of a dungeon and here comes Mr Bobblehead helmet appearance, Plate appearance wearing wizard, wielding his holiday candy cane event staff, that fires confetti instead of destruction. What was pulling you into a game world is somewhat broken by the ridiculousness of appearance items that can get to extremes.

     

    I'm all for appearance items though for purposes of events, role playing, etc. They can add flair in the right setting without distracting or breaking immersion (so long as jet pack capes don't get added, no offense gnomes).

     

    I cringe though what I've seen other games do with appearance items and would help some level of moderation and context of the game world would be considered in any case.

     

    Beyond the appearance aspect, I've seen players intentionally mask their "noob" gear with appearance items then lie their way into groups and raids only to be dead weight. If appearance items were to be a new visual of currently equipped gear, I'd hope an /inspect would be added.

     

    I remember in EQ1 (back around Kunark), my character looked pretty clown like wearing all sorts of different sets/colors of stuff. It was borderline absurd looking. When I played Vanguard though, I don't see to recall the same level of absurdity when mixing sets, they seemed to flow better together. 

     

    Some examples of what I cringe to:

     

     

     

     

     

    There's other examples, but kind of the extremes things "can" get to..


    This post was edited by spyderoptik at October 7, 2015 11:21 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    September 21, 2015 8:34 PM PDT
    spyderoptik said:
    Kilsin said:

    Appearance gear and weapons - Do you like being able to change your characters appearance in-game or would you rather all players be known for their accomplishments by allowing everyone to see their earned armour and weapons, even if a few others have it too?

     

    Would an /inspect (or similar inspection mechanic) exist if such items existed? 

     

    Personally, I'm not a fan of appearance gear distorting what is actually being worn. It's somewhat immersion breaking with silly costumes being worn during actual combat/technical times. There's a time and a place in my opinion. If there's appearance gear, I'd prefer it have no stats and be an appearance piece or an actual piece. This allows role playing and "event" flair without breaking immersion when out of context.

     

    I've played a lot of games (mostly ones with cash shop appearance items) that take appearance items to an extreme and you'd be in a raid with people dressed as chickens, bobble heads, skateboarding, etc and that sort of stuff taints a game for me visually.

     

    The artists spend time creating an atmosphere or feel of a dungeon and here comes Mr Bobblehead helmet appearance, Plate appearance wearing wizard, wielding his holiday candy cane event staff, that fires confetti instead of destruction. What was pulling you into a game world is somewhat broken by the ridiculousness of appearance items that can get to extremes.

     

    I'm all for appearance items though for purposes of events, role playing, etc. They can add flair in the right setting without distracting or breaking immersion (so long as jet pack capes don't get added, no offense gnomes).

     

    I cringe though what I've seen other games do with appearance items and would help some level of moderation and context of the game world would be considered in any case.

     

    Beyond the appearance aspect, I've seen players intentionally mask their "noob" gear with appearance items then lie their way into groups and raids only to be dead weight. If appearance items were to be a new visual of currently equipped gear, I'd hope an /inspect would be added.

     

    I remember in EQ1 (back around Kunark), my character looked pretty clown like wearing all sorts of different sets/colors of stuff. It was borderline absurd looking. When I played Vanguard though, I don't see to recall the same level of absurdity when mixing sets, they seemed to flow better together. 

     

    Some examples of what I cringe to:

     

     

     

     

     

    There's other examples, but kind of the extremes things "can" get to..

    I have played AA and similar games to man and yes, those things bug me personally to no end! lol


    We had an /inspect command in VG along with /anon to stop prying eyes, I have put forward a huge ~50 page command and suggestion list to Dan a few months ago, so I am not sure what will make it through or not but both /inspect and /anon were on it as I had saved every slash command in VG and added them to the list :)

    • 85 posts
    September 21, 2015 9:50 PM PDT

    I like the idea of having town clothes, or party clothes, and the like.  I mean, I really don't want to have to carry a shield or wear armor to go hang out in the pub with my friends, or go to some guild or dev event where I won't be fighting.  Plus, sometimes I want to look pretty.  (And face it, sometimes adventuring gear is not that cute.)  But pretty dresses should not have any real stats... (Social stats would be cool...charisma, charm, guile, etc...that's a whole other thing though.)

    That being said, I think in combat, or out adventuring in the world, you need to be dressed for it.  Party clothes just won't cut it...because they have no stats. I mean, I guess you COULD wear them out in the world, but you'll look funny climbing a mountain in that tux or that dress, and it will be ripped to shreds by the talons of the first harpy you look at sideways.   

    Also, I don't think any old adventuring gear should be usable in appearance gear slots at all.   Party clothes should look like party clothes and armor should look like armor. And, I know your adventuring gear is cool.  I know you're proud of it.  Wear it around if you want, but you don't get to wear something 10 times more powerful underneath your super awesome, glowy level 10 Chest Plate of Doom.  That's false advertising.


    So, I guess I want both types of gear....just no stats on the fancy stuff...but you have to wear one or the other.  (Oh, I also want crafting and harvesting clothes...ala VG...so add those to the list.) 


    One thing I don't want, however, is to have to drag around a whole other set of gear all the time.  I mean, what if I happen to be going to a party right after this raid??  I think an appearance tab with slots could work, but it should be either toggled on or toggled off...maybe even with a long "cast" time or a cool down?  If you're out adventuring, you can have your appearance gear toggled on, but you'll get eaten, fast.  If you're at a party, you look like an itchy gorilla in that suit of armor.  You don't get the best of both worlds, no instant switching to adventuring gear just because you are now in combat...you fight (or party) in what shows.


    Also, this could be super fun for a PvP server.  If you want to be fancy at a party, you better make sure that everyone there is a true friend or be ready to change your clothes pretty quick...because if some baddie shows up in armor and sees you in a tux, you could be toast.  

         

     


    This post was edited by Sylee at October 7, 2015 11:23 AM PDT
    • 21 posts
    September 22, 2015 2:22 AM PDT

    i like the appearance slot. i might like the looks of lower set of armor but when i get something better i'd still like to keep the looks. It makes me feel like the story is truly mine when i can choose what i wear. the appearance slot also is used by the RP crowd. in no way want an end game item replicated as an appearance item. I do not want or need stats on appearance item. The whole rags masking the gear thing is used mainly for pvp anywho....I just was my character to look and feel the way i want it to without being hindered( IE i like robe X style but robe Y is BiS). As a tailor or tanner or armor smith i think appearance items could be crafted. In AA the library costumes gave no stat bonus yet took for ever to collect the mats to make...yet that was one of my proudest moments when i finally got the costume i wanted..... Taken from my FB post.....

     

     

    But I also hate the new age appearance items in a fantasy genre game and all the weird costumes like AA does

    X

  • September 22, 2015 7:03 AM PDT

    I don't mind different appearances if the slotted items must be replaced to show the different appearances.  

     

    There is no reason a player, who wants to wear a dress or a dress shirt and the like, cannot remove their adventuring gear and put on their go-to-town gear.  It's realistic.  It's not an absurd expectation of the player.  It takes no time to replace the slotted items with dress clothes. 

    What is absurd is a character who looks naked, or is wearing a dress shirt and slacks, while fighting a dragon.

     

    Also... why use developer time to code a 'button' forcing those who want to protect continuity and immersion, in a game promoting such ideas, to push the button in order to play the game they thought they had signed up to play?  :)   It's just not that difficult to right-click and choose equip.

     

     

    Edit*  When I say I don't mind different appearances, I mean within the context of traditional high fantasy.


    This post was edited by BloodbeardBattlecaster at September 22, 2015 2:32 PM PDT
    • 179 posts
    September 22, 2015 9:20 AM PDT

    I agree I don't want to see appearance gear in this game like the awful looking gear posted above. I dislike cash shops.

    I do however want a system very similar to Vanguard. If you look at the attached video and forward to 4:34 you can see an example of how it was handled in Vanguard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDwnDsLsAoE&feature=youtu.be

     

    This is how my Rogue looked using her APW armor instead of her Pantheon looking armor. Her APW armor set was in the appearance equipment tab.


    This post was edited by Anasyn at September 23, 2015 2:55 AM PDT
    • 557 posts
    September 22, 2015 10:59 AM PDT

    The fundamental problem with most MMORPGs is that everyone in a particular class tends to gravitate toward the same gear so you end up with a lot of clones running around in game.   The period where you really distinguish yourself by having a unique item is relatively short in relation to the time before you start seeing many mirrors of your character.

     

    Some players like their character to be a flamboyant peacock with shiny, coloured armour, dual flaming swords in hand as they run around setting fire to the hair of every merchant in town.  They want to be sure everyone knows how awesome they are from a good distance away.

     

    Other players would prefer their character to perhaps be draped in a dark cloak with their uber gear largely disguised so they can sit quietly in a pub, enjoy their pipe and a stiff drink or move subtly through the woods or a market area scarcely noticed.   When it comes time to do battle, their awesomeness is apparent only by the blood of the foes which lay beneath their feet.

     

    I'm hugely in favor of appearance gear, so long as it's lore appropriate for my race/class.  I'd like to be able to change up my look without giving up the stats on items which I've worked very hard to acquire.   I think a separate paper doll for appearance items can work well.   LoTRO handled this very well and didn't require that you completely change out your gear.   You selected which paper doll to use to show the world.  They actually had a fair amount of appearance gear in game and you had multiple appearance paper dolls.   If you chose an appearance set which didn't have specific slots filled, your actual gear showed through for that slot.    This created a wide variety in player appearances without creating a nightmare from a client/bandwidth perspective.

     

    I'm also in favour of implementing a dye system similar to what EQ had in what was maybe Luclin era or perhaps implement a dye system that's part of the crafting environment.   I'm still pushing that the best in-game items should be crafted from rare drops and this would be a great point where some colour customization or some unique design element from the craftsman could be introduced to the look - making not only the item unique but the maker identifiable on inspection.

     

    Just don't give us a world where all the level 50 warriors look like identical extras from "Make Love, Not WarCraft".

    • 85 posts
    September 22, 2015 10:46 PM PDT

    I dont mind to "skin over"  my gear.. As long as the costumes are relevant to the game. Dont want to see blue jeans in pantheon or some stupid animal costume.