A cool mechanic in Everquest is that everyone needs to at some point rest in order to gain back, mana, health, stamina. And due to this groups need to develop rest areas where everyone can safely sit and rest and heal each-other and buff one another. In these rest areas is where people develop relationships and friendships develop. But in everquest for the most part people only rest with people they are grouped with. It would be cool if there was benefits to all players who rest in the same area together weather grouped or not. Lets say a solo ranger can sit a rest next to a bard and gain some bard songs and while the solo ranger is resting next to the bard and his group it gives a ranger rest bonus like forage, or eagle eye. I think this type of system would bring people together fluidly and in an organic way that would be really cool. Player congregation is very important in a social gaming experience. If 2 or 3 groups sharing a rest area is greatly beneficial to everyone perhaps it would mitigate feuds between multiple group interaction.
kinda liking the idea, but was thinking more along the lines of a campfire. More people might yield a greater bonus, a "feeling of safety" and as a result faster regeneration. Possibly make it so it makes lower level spawns roam away from the area to steer clear? (I'm sure people could/would find a way to utilize this outside of a solo use with this effect). And adversely it might attract a larger npc if there is one in the zone.
One thing that makes me really like the concept, is that it'd encourage people to be happier about seeing other solo players in an area - instead of "ugh, now I have to share spawns, possibly avoid being trained" etc.
But I wonder if it'd be a bad thing ultimately? It doesn't effect how the fights go, just the downtime, right? So it still leaves soloing to those who are able - but now bolsters their downtime and makes them more efficient about it. =/ okay maybe not a good idea?
I would be okay with a 'camping' skill, much like SWG had but newer and better. The only caveats would be it must be outside, those within the camp must still be attackable (firelight and food would draw the attention of others...AI would be good here), and it doesn't provide any buffs, except for minor types like increased charisma, slower food/water use, better night vision (though that would be an odd one in the case of a fire ;) )
If the 'area' provided buffs, too fast of a regen, etc... it would simply be abused instead of used as a social system. People would just run in and out, in and out, without speaking or interacting.
I like your idea! I agree it would have the potential to foster cooperation and hopefully community. Especially for two solo adventurers. I think it would be tricky figuring out what benefits to provide though. If they are too weak then it wouldn't matter, too strong people might feel like I would need to camp every time their party heads out... or whenever a new member joins. I'm sure it wouldn't be too tough to figure out though!
Valith said:
(2) Maybe multiple people will create a "bonfire" with even more benefits and if a bard joins well, then that's a party!
I wanna hang out at this party. I'll bring the wine. :)
BloodbeardBattlecaster said:
I would be okay with a 'camping' skill, much like SWG had but newer and better. The only caveats would be it must be outside, those within the camp must still be attackable (firelight and food would draw the attention of others...AI would be good here), and it doesn't provide any buffs, except for minor types like increased charisma, slower food/water use, better night vision (though that would be an odd one in the case of a fire ;) )
If the 'area' provided buffs, too fast of a regen, etc... it would simply be abused instead of used as a social system. People would just run in and out, in and out, without speaking or interacting.
i like where this is going, my own personal thought is that in order to use the skill, fuel would need to be purchased from vendors. also instead of the area giving a buff, how about it just increases regen and makes all buffs cast in the area of 15m around the fire hit everyone in that 15m area? and the buff thing could even be something that only comes into play when the skill is maxxed, along with regen increasing with the camping skill.
In some zones, depending on the areas and location (maybe make it something players must discover/reason out), if the campfire area is maintained for a long enough duration, then a traveling merchant will come thru and allow people to vendor?
It'd be kind of cool if the dev's took liberties with it and made various outcomes. Some npc's that wander into the campfire might be friendly, others might start friendly but would turn aggressive later? Or turn into a quest npc looking for an escort.
This is intresting. After playing Darksouls 2, bonfire areas were like a sight to behold after exploring. The zones would need to be extensive to take advantage of these little areas but it would be a nice social feature. Perhaps to fit in with the game and lore, it was a somewhat the same deal with druid rings and wizard spires in EQ.
Maybe the ports in locations can act as these areas in some zones. Just a thought.
There would need to be some restrictions in place. Only 1 campfire in a given radius because if the campfire is to give any bonuses to regeneration (health and/or mana) you shouldn't be able to stack campfire buffs. Any buff from a campfire is immediately removed if the player engages in combat.
Bloodbearbattlecaster's idea that the campfire could draw the attention of unwanted monsters is warranted. Sure, mindless creatures like bears and lions might naturally avoid a campfire but sentient monsters, bandits and undead might be attracted to it from quite a distance (after all the fire can be seen from much further away than you can see out from the campfire.) The use of a campfire could be a viable means to gain XP if NPCs change behaviors based upon the time of day.
Vandraad said:There would need to be some restrictions in place. Only 1 campfire in a given radius because if the campfire is to give any bonuses to regeneration (health and/or mana) you shouldn't be able to stack campfire buffs. Any buff from a campfire is immediately removed if the player engages in combat.
Bloodbearbattlecaster's idea that the campfire could draw the attention of unwanted monsters is warranted. Sure, mindless creatures like bears and lions might naturally avoid a campfire but sentient monsters, bandits and undead might be attracted to it from quite a distance (after all the fire can be seen from much further away than you can see out from the campfire.) The use of a campfire could be a viable means to gain XP if NPCs change behaviors based upon the time of day.
I was only going for a safe spot to sit and rest, I'm not sure about buffs, maybe just an areas where mobs don't path. Now danger still exists as another player can drag in a aggro mob.
There is an feature to donate items for buffs at altars so I woun't put buffs at these so called bonfires. As a high level char, I want to come vists these areas and say, Hey, free regen at x location. ect ect
I think if the portin locales can be tied into this, it would suffice.
could be interesting ... a little oasis where you could park your character. Gotta eat dinner? Putting the kids to bed? No problem ... run to the campfire and either take your chances of being trained (if you leave your character standing there unattended) or camp out there. Zone into relative safety while still being close to where you were previously playing. Interesting idea, for sure.
xtnpd said:could be interesting ... a little oasis where you could park your character. Gotta eat dinner? Putting the kids to bed? No problem ... run to the campfire and either take your chances of being trained (if you leave your character standing there unattended) or camp out there. Zone into relative safety while still being close to where you were previously playing. Interesting idea, for sure.
Exactually. Or exploring as a group, 10-15 min break.
Group rest gets dynamtic, as if say people need a break for 20min but can play after and dont want break up the group, can go to the evac or port-in area/rest area. Chill and chat. The risk is with trains and also the risk of losing said camp spot. Adds many dynamtics.
Man I am glad I dredged this back up. This was on the last page of topics. (That bored)
Did I ever mention my dream job was game design, coming up with ideas and solutions? *cough VR cough*
Not sure buffs are a "good enough" reason alone to bring people together myself. You need something a lil more solid kinda like how they're already doing with the players vs the world enviroment. Imagine everyone needing to avoid a sand storm or risk getting lost/bumping into unseen enemies then waiting it out in a small cave/rest area makes sense. (this is just one of many examples they might do). Now think about ice/snow too, floods, firestorms, etc etc. Now add in small rest/protected areas and wah la... social engagment with good reason.
Nimryl said:Not sure buffs are a "good enough" reason alone to bring people together myself. You need something a lil more solid kinda like how they're already doing with the players vs the world enviroment. Imagine everyone needing to avoid a sand storm or risk getting lost/bumping into unseen enemies then waiting it out in a small cave/rest area makes sense. (this is just one of many examples they might do). Now think about ice/snow too, floods, firestorms, etc etc. Now add in small rest/protected areas and wah la... social engagment with good reason.
Thats reminds me of a episode of the latest start trek tv show Enterprise, where Captain Archer and T'Pol wait out a storm with another Vulcan in a cave. Nice idea.
munge said:A cool mechanic in Everquest is that everyone needs to at some point rest in order to gain back, mana, health, stamina. And due to this groups need to develop rest areas where everyone can safely sit and rest and heal each-other and buff one another. In these rest areas is where people develop relationships and friendships develop. But in everquest for the most part people only rest with people they are grouped with. It would be cool if there was benefits to all players who rest in the same area together weather grouped or not. Lets say a solo ranger can sit a rest next to a bard and gain some bard songs and while the solo ranger is resting next to the bard and his group it gives a ranger rest bonus like forage, or eagle eye. I think this type of system would bring people together fluidly and in an organic way that would be really cool. Player congregation is very important in a social gaming experience. If 2 or 3 groups sharing a rest area is greatly beneficial to everyone perhaps it would mitigate feuds between multiple group interaction.
I generally like your idea. This seems related to a post I just made about how proactive we should be in helping people find groups, find friends, sell and buy items, etc. How much help should we give the player? And, then, how much should we leave to the players to develop organically? Obviously there are extremes, and we have always leaned towards an open world feeling, players doing what they will, and organic and emergent behavior welcomed. The other extreme, where the game matches you up (dungeon finders and such) and does all this artificial stuff doesn't usually build community and help things anyway, so I'm not talking about that, don't worry.
But I am talking about providing things here and there to help and be proactive. The post above, where there are rest areas that not only help the group, but anyone who comes by... that could encourage community building and have a positive effect. So what are your thoughts? Should we do little things like this to help foster community, grouping, cooperation, free trade? If so, where should we draw the line before it starts interfering with the open world we want?
Thanks in advance for your ideas and thoughts.
-Brad
Aradune said:I generally like your idea. This seems related to a post I just made about how proactive we should be in helping people find groups, find friends, sell and buy items, etc. How much help should we give the player? And, then, how much should we leave to the players to develop organically? Obviously there are extremes, and we have always leaned towards an open world feeling, players doing what they will, and organic and emergent behavior welcomed. The other extreme, where the game matches you up (dungeon finders and such) and does all this artificial stuff doesn't usually build community and help things anyway, so I'm not talking about that, don't worry.
But I am talking about providing things here and there to help and be proactive. The post above, where there are rest areas that not only help the group, but anyone who comes by... that could encourage community building and have a positive effect. So what are your thoughts? Should we do little things like this to help foster community, grouping, cooperation, free trade? If so, where should we draw the line before it starts interfering with the open world we want?
Thanks in advance for your ideas and thoughts.
-Brad
Thanks for responding.
I think we are looking for small social hubs within zones, that require a rest. In EQ, these were created by clearning mobs then waiting on respawn timers. I've actually rested next to a group killing mobs before for safety lol. The days. But these happened after you got to camp. I'm thinking in terms of exploring, these can be small respits or as I put ti above the port in locations for the port classes.
Maybe theese so called campfires or something can be player driven. They will need supplies of wood wtc to keep active or fall to ruin. Lots of options.
Aich said:Aradune said:I generally like your idea. This seems related to a post I just made about how proactive we should be in helping people find groups, find friends, sell and buy items, etc. How much help should we give the player? And, then, how much should we leave to the players to develop organically? Obviously there are extremes, and we have always leaned towards an open world feeling, players doing what they will, and organic and emergent behavior welcomed. The other extreme, where the game matches you up (dungeon finders and such) and does all this artificial stuff doesn't usually build community and help things anyway, so I'm not talking about that, don't worry.
But I am talking about providing things here and there to help and be proactive. The post above, where there are rest areas that not only help the group, but anyone who comes by... that could encourage community building and have a positive effect. So what are your thoughts? Should we do little things like this to help foster community, grouping, cooperation, free trade? If so, where should we draw the line before it starts interfering with the open world we want?
Thanks in advance for your ideas and thoughts.
-Brad
Thanks for responding.
I think we are looking for small social hubs within zones, that require a rest. In EQ, these were created by clearning mobs then waiting on respawn timers. I've actually rested next to a group killing mobs before for safety lol. The days. But these happened after you got to camp. I'm thinking in terms of exploring, these can be small respits or as I put ti above the port in locations for the port classes.
Maybe theese so called campfires or something can be player driven. They will need supplies of wood wtc to keep active or fall to ruin. Lots of options.
Yeah, I like the way your approaching it -- good stuff.
This screams slippery slope to me. We don't want to create hubs that people won't venture far from, or have an advantage in leveling over those who adventure far from one of these safe areas. Engendering a since of community is great, but I really hope if this is a thing, that it is implemented in a manner that prevents or avoids players yoyo-ing between killing a mob and running back to the safe area because it is more efficient. That's not going to promote good gameplay, imo.
Krixus presents a strong counterpoint; safe havens are usually well removed from combat areas to prevent exploits or general player fast tracking. I realize most of us are not necessarily saying that campfires would be "safe," but they're certainly going to become a major gameplay consideration if downtime perks are involved. I love the idea of an increasing buff based on the amount of players around a campfire for social purposes. I think with the right emotes it could be a great way to interact with other players in dangerous areas.
Perhaps campfires are a static location strategically placed by the devs, and players can come along and "ignite" them using reagents they're carrying with them, much like modern trails and campsites today. Different materials could provide different buffs, or smoke signals could draw travelers or NPC's to the campsite for various reasons. In this setup, the location of the camp has been carefully considered, effectively cutting down exploits while bolstering the positive impacts of social interactions - trade, LFG, etc.
Krixus said:This screams slippery slope to me. We don't want to create hubs that people won't venture far from, or have an advantage in leveling over those who adventure far from one of these safe areas. Engendering a since of community is great, but I really hope if this is a thing, that it is implemented in a manner that prevents or avoids players yoyo-ing between killing a mob and running back to the safe area because it is more efficient. That's not going to promote good gameplay, imo.
Lots of great ideas and concerns. If I may suggest similar to EQ's design of guards protecting low level players if they couldn't handle a mob they could run by them and they would kill it for them. The trade off was they avoided death but they didn't get any experience. Perhaps to avoid creating a "safe haven" that fosters abuse, as noted by the "yo-yo" concept there needs to be some real limits or restrictions created for something like this to be fair. Perhaps making them quite a distance from higher level mobs would inhibit abuse as well?
I see the real advantage of the rest area being a strategically placed area that offsets too much "sandbox" feeling, allowing for a rallying point to form.
In Everquest, these areas tended to be the entrance of dungeons, as mostly all of the dungeon entrances were safe to be at outside of trains, and tended to be the place you would meet up and form groups. Creating safe areas seems like a good idea, and was also done in Everquest.
The whole campfire thing is alright, but if you give benefits for being in that area, groups may end up pulling mobs to there, and groups may end up butting heads when AOE's are going off damaging other groups members, getting people killed etc.
There were tons of areas you could camp out safely and log back in safely in EQ, even in the most dangerous of places, that were found organically. The problem with creating safe areas beyond the zone-in and zone-out areas of a dungeon are that if you assume the area is safe to camp out, and then log back in later and nobody is there, you're left with trying to get out yourself, or to just die.
I like the idea of rest areas (safe spots where people can gather). Campfires are a great idea, but I just wanted to let everyone know that the idea is from TERA. http://tera.wikia.com/wiki/Campfire ; We used to throw cards in the fire to give us and all around the campfire buffs. No reason why Pantheon cannot have them as well, I just wanted to enlighten.
Aradune said:munge said:A cool mechanic in Everquest is that everyone needs to at some point rest in order to gain back, mana, health, stamina. And due to this groups need to develop rest areas where everyone can safely sit and rest and heal each-other and buff one another. In these rest areas is where people develop relationships and friendships develop. But in everquest for the most part people only rest with people they are grouped with. It would be cool if there was benefits to all players who rest in the same area together weather grouped or not. Lets say a solo ranger can sit a rest next to a bard and gain some bard songs and while the solo ranger is resting next to the bard and his group it gives a ranger rest bonus like forage, or eagle eye. I think this type of system would bring people together fluidly and in an organic way that would be really cool. Player congregation is very important in a social gaming experience. If 2 or 3 groups sharing a rest area is greatly beneficial to everyone perhaps it would mitigate feuds between multiple group interaction.
I generally like your idea. This seems related to a post I just made about how proactive we should be in helping people find groups, find friends, sell and buy items, etc. How much help should we give the player? And, then, how much should we leave to the players to develop organically? Obviously there are extremes, and we have always leaned towards an open world feeling, players doing what they will, and organic and emergent behavior welcomed. The other extreme, where the game matches you up (dungeon finders and such) and does all this artificial stuff doesn't usually build community and help things anyway, so I'm not talking about that, don't worry.
But I am talking about providing things here and there to help and be proactive. The post above, where there are rest areas that not only help the group, but anyone who comes by... that could encourage community building and have a positive effect. So what are your thoughts? Should we do little things like this to help foster community, grouping, cooperation, free trade? If so, where should we draw the line before it starts interfering with the open world we want?
Thanks in advance for your ideas and thoughts.
-Brad
I think the key is to have it PLAYER driven...if you put in campfires, they have to be started and maintained by players. No areas that are safe spots and provide a buff or bonus, I understand you want to have safespots in dungeons for players to camp out at and stuff and thats cool but please if you want them to provide buffs or other benefits make it so the players have to provide the firewood, the fuel the whatever else. No one thought to bring fire wood...tsk tsk tsk no bonfire for you