If Pantheon did adopt some sort of AA system at some point, would you like to see it be a late game thing exactly the way EQ did it, or would you prefer it to start in some way at an earlier level? Or.... would like it to be an end game thing where not only do you have to be max level of whatever that is when the system is implemented, but also you would have to do some sort of questing as well for each ability? Perhaps all or some of such abilities could be done via quests instead of filling up an AA XP bar for a "mini ding" ?
As a side question, those of you who played EQ, did you usually max your characters level out before turning on the AAs? Or did you mix it up somehow? On my non raiding "just for fun" toons I often turned off normal xp and put 100% of xp into AAs at the earliest allowed level just so I could continue hunting in my favorite old zones such as Old Seb.
If Pantheon adopts a system like the AA system I would lean towards it being at max level. I view this system as some have previously stated as a way to keep players engaged at max level. Adding longevity to the characters progression over time. With the leveling and class specialization we have heard about I feel we will probably have enough to do while leveling that this should be saved for max level.
To you second question I think that will be hard to answer depending on how the death mechanic works with exp loss. In EQ I would reach max level the put a 50/50 split on the exp to ensure I had a good buffer of exp in my level to make I would not "un Ding" during a lengthy raid that might not be going so well. After I reached safe point it would go full AA exp.
I think you should add an option "D) Not at all".
As Raroic pointed out, AA's were about keeping the high end characters engaged. They were an afterthought where SOE discovered "Oh crap, our best players are starting to lose interest."
So if I have to pick one, I'd say that the concept of AA's needs to in there from the beginning but that the implementation should be handled through class specialization mechanics that are integral to the way I'm going to level my character. There should be lots to focus on at any level besides staring at the experience bar, praying that it will move faster.
Inevitably there are going to be players who will cap out any system you put in place. I would suggest that just tossing more AA's on top of an existing leveling system is a stop gap measure. In reality you're not competitive at the raid level unless you have enough AA's, maxed out gear, etc... because the devs have to start putting content in place which requires the added advancement. There's nothing "alternate" about it really when it becomes mandatory.
What I really liked about AA's was how it let me customize my character. Looks like we're going to have lots of specialization options in Pantheon so that aspect of AA's is perhaps being absorbed into the core game design where it really belongs. I know this will not likely be a popular suggestion, but I'd like to see some sort of cap on these specializations. It's not really special if everyone in my class has all the exact same specs. Taken to it's extreme that's along the same line of thought of letting every class have every ability.
If there has to be some sort of AA system, I'd like to see it more like a spec tree where there are some mutually exclusive choices. The spec should have some significance and reflect more of the player's skill and choices made, not just how long they've been grinding.
It seems like the system they've described so far could (or is) meant to increase longevity of characters. Based on the round table discussions, they said there will be different specs, abilities and items to improve and diversify your class. It wouldn't be very hard to continue to add some sort of scrolls, quests or other means to improve your class abilities or introduce new ones over time. It might not be the traditional AA system where you spend points in a UI window, but the principle would still be the same.
I would prefer it be towards max level. I typically looked at AA's as a way to further improve my character beyond the standard max level. I also used it as a reason to continuing playing in PvE groups with a purpose.
For the most part I would start raising them at max level. I would usually get about 2 deaths worth of experience into the level then set my AA to 90% and level xp to 10% until I was one kill from the next level (when the expansion came out) then went 100% AA.
The only exception would be if I was trying to stick around the same level/xp rate as somebody else, then if I played when they were not on I would have thrown the AA experience on in order to be the same "level" as them... even though at this point we could group regardless.
I always chose my AA's based on what I felt was the most important role for me. So, for my monk (the main I stuck with), early on I focused on FD aa's. I then put a few into DPS, and then worked completely for defense (which I felt helped me with pulling).
Dullahan said:
It seems like the system they've described so far could (or is) meant to increase longevity of characters. Based on the round table discussions, they said there will be different specs, abilities and items to improve and diversify your class. It wouldn't be very hard to continue to add some sort of scrolls, quests or other means to improve your class abilities or introduce new ones over time. It might not be the traditional AA system where you spend points in a UI window, but the principle would still be the same.
I would be curious to see what all they do choose to do with the idea. They really could do a lot using the idea as a base. It could be expanded on in many ways, such as using AA points to purchase skills which then need to be leveled up by other means- using the skill in/out of combat, traveling , survival (defensive or escaping), etc.
I really like the idea of quested skills or dropped skill scrolls that like the EQ aa system beneficial for any class. i would also like to see those skills have an evolution over time with use, kinda like a trivial, or a skill exp bar. maybe a few skills for archetype too. these things could be mixed in with the colored mana concept, taking a different color of mana to use based on what the skill is used for if it is an active skill. allowing players to gear up with mana outside of the two types that their class uses (maybe from jewelry or something) which could give players a unique feel to their personal character.
if quested skills or dropped skills are implemented i would expect it to be verry difficult to obtain. think in terms of Epics from EQ1 if its quested. (not really needing a raid for all of em maybe but there are other ways to make it difficult besides raids)
the benefit to linking this with the colored mana system would be that it allows for the making of a unique playstyle without being too OP because the amount of colored mana you could gain thru equips would be limited.
I prefer that type of system to begin at max level because of two reasons (well possibly two reasons). The first reason is so that the player does not feel that void once the levels stop coming and the skills/abilities stop coming. The second reason is only possible if the developers create a particular AA system.
What I would do and what I would love for Pantheon to do is to have an AA system (whatever it may be and called) that begins once you reach max level and what this system would do is allow players to 'fine-tune' their class to their play style. Not sure if this is how EQ functions now with their AAs but at one point WoW sort of did something like this. Just not with AA's, they had their 3 trees of skills where each tree allowed the class to play in a specific way. Before max level the player gets a broad sense of what their class is to be. And once they hit the max level the AA system allows them to tweak their class to a more unique play style. Using my paladin scenario again, with AAs you could fine-tune your paladin into more of a tank or more of a damage dealer or more of a healer. With AAs you could ultimately create a functioning paladin healer to possibly even main heal raids depending on how far you want to take the system.
Either way, the AAs would allow the player to hone in their class. A ranger could narrow his class to being more of a magic user than a physical based archer. A druid could focus more on healing rather than nukes. A bard could function more as a damage dealing bard rather than a buffing support bard. Etc etc.
When AAs were first released in EQ, my character was near max level, so that's when I raised them. However, with any alt I created afterward, I typically leveled them at old max level thresholds, so Mid-game at that point - 60, 65, 70, (although 71 was a good level), 75, 80, etc.
So, I think having AAs that are available at different level ranges whether that be Pantheon's right of passage system and droppable/learning mob abilities/skills or UI based like EQ is a very good thing - it provides options on how/where/what to level in an MMO even at max level, which adds a great deal to its longevity (I'd bet EQ would have been sunset by now without AAs).
I think you should be able to collect them at any level you want, the way EQOA did it. Some CM's (AA's) had level requirements though, so it wasn't like you could just farm them until you had the beefiest character ever. You could collect some though to help make lower leveling easier. I kind of like the idea of being able to get AA's at any level. Of course, AA's work just like regular levels, don't they? So after you get a couple, they start getting harder to farm - hence why you'd want to wait until you're getting more exp in higher levels.
In short, I say make them available at like, level 5+
Castwell said:
I'll just say this about the dark side of EQ's AA system, For those that were playing when they came out, they cool and gave us something to do. But if you look at where is at today, if were just starting or leveling a new toon, getting to lvl 105 isnt a big issue. Now you have start and aquire 10 - 15k AAs (don't know what the actual number for max is) and even at 105 it still almost more work than getting to 105. Something to keep in mind as you discuss this subject....
I view that as a good thing though - yes 15,000 AAs would be daunting to a true "newbie" to EQ (do those still exist?); however, if Pantheon runs into the problem of having 15k AAs (or whatever system they use) than that is an extremely good thing as it speaks to its longevity similar to EQ at 16+ years. This is also why I choose the "Mid level" route ultimately in EQ and achieved AAs appropriate to the milestones after the level cap reached 70-75-80-85-90-95-100; however, I would be ok with less vertical treadmill exp/content with each expansion release that EQ used and more horizontal based content and progression in Pantheon.
I liked AA's probably because it gave me another form of progression and goals. I'm one of the finicky players who has to have character progression everytime I log into my persona in a virtual world. I dunno i guess im just weird like that. I tell you one thing tho.. the reason im not playing eq is not because of the AA's its because of the 20 year old graphics