What are some of the unwritten rules of MMORPGs player etiquette that you would like to see people respect in Pantheon? Also, are there any that you feel have become somehow outdated and would like to see done away with one way or another? Do you think camps should be respected? What if a team gold sellers has a mob camped 24/7 , is it then ok after I certain point to make your move on that camp?
One thing I've always felt was a very kind thing to do when you pass by people in your travels is give each other buffs. It's not only beneficial for both parties, but it's a good way to meet people and kind of break the ice.
Another thing I've always noticed for larger dungeons in VG is to ask other groups in the dungeon what they're going for and if possible to go in different directions. If both parties are seeking the same mob, finding a way to compromise before trying to steam roll past them.
I'm a pretty nice guy, and if someone has a mob camped, I'll almost always leave it to them. With that said, I don't think you should expect others to leave because you have something camped. If another group comes, maybe you can work out a compromise, or maybe you're just going to have to contest and may the group better at getting ownership win. Now, if a group has a mob camped 24/7, and no one else is able to access or even attempt this content, I think there is more wrong with the game design rather than the players respect levels. The mobs spawn is too rare or maybe too long. The drop chance on a piece of loot is extremely low, im talking .05 to .005 or something. It could even be there just isnt enough other content for players to pursue.
I've always thought the time honoured tradition of doing camp checks was a civilized approach to contended content and an essential part of game etiquette. Hand in hand with that is the idea of creating a list to join groups or take over a camp when someone leaves. While CC requests in busy zones can get a bit annoying at peak times, the courtesy and chance for players to interact positively often generates some interesting zone wide dialogue. Kind of nice to have a bit of discussion happening if you're embedding in a long camp.
Xeravik said:
One thing I've always felt was a very kind thing to do when you pass by people in your travels is give each other buffs. It's not only beneficial for both parties, but it's a good way to meet people and kind of break the ice.
This reminds of the first time I was given Clarity in West Commonlands EQ1. I remember it to this day. Enough said
It helped me to grow up and eventually make 10k Plat a night casting KEI in The Nexus.
Celandor said:
I've always thought the time honoured tradition of doing camp checks was a civilized approach to contended content and an essential part of game etiquette. Hand in hand with that is the idea of creating a list to join groups or take over a camp when someone leaves. While CC requests in busy zones can get a bit annoying at peak times, the courtesy and chance for players to interact positively often generates some interesting zone wide dialogue. Kind of nice to have a bit of discussion happening if you're embedding in a long camp.
I remember camp checks, and asking if someone needs help before just barging in and taking the mob over. This activity became rampant in games like Wow, which is another reason I refused to play any more. No such thing as game etiquette for those folks.. in the old days, (EQ) if I was camping something, and someone asked to join I would invite them...share the experience and have someone to chat with whilst camping. Hoping to see some of that again..with Pantheon.
Amsai said:
Finding a replacement for yourself before leaving a leveling party. Couldnt stand it in XI when people just up and leave. Granted sometime it could be an emergency and thats fine.. As for RMTs. In XI on Garuda server, if we knew them to be RMTs we would usually just MPK them (monster player killing). XI was mostly a PvE game aside from a few instanced things. So you could drag a mob over to the RMTs and drop it on them. Usually pretty hilarious. Especially if you could maintain claim but give the RMT aggro. Then the RMT would get attacked and would be unable to fight back. A little evil, but I have no sympathy for RMTs
I played a pvp spider...in Lotro, we would do the same, we knew where all the farmer bots stuck themselves, in the Ettenmoors, we would run around in a group a couple times a day, and wipe them all out. Great revenge on gold farmers. :) Free points too. :D
Manouk said:
No begging. Innate concept and application of the good of "need before greed".
THIS...very annoying. Specially if they message you and you go why did you message me...I'm busy. lol Played Rift and the need before greed got circumvented a lot...it turned into greed and greed. I would just leave the group. You can't explain to those people that they should roll on stuff for themselves not their alts.
CanadinaXegony said:asking if someone needs help before just barging in and taking the mob over. This activity became rampant in games like Wow, which is another reason I refused to play any more. No such thing as game etiquette for those folks.. in the old days, (EQ) if I was camping something, and someone asked to join I would invite them...share the experience and have someone to chat with whilst camping. Hoping to see some of that again..with Pantheon.
This is what I was gonna say! Unless it looks like someone is about to die, I won't jump into their fight. I'll ask if they need help... most of the time I get no response of course but sometimes.... sometimes they do answer and need the help ... or don't but they appreciate the offer. lol I have really started to question what is the appropriate etiquette these days.
Manouk said:
No begging. Innate concept and application of the good of "need before greed".
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you!
On camps - I want the game admins to be consistent. If you take the SOE approach of "we do not recognize camps" and jacktard camp stealers parrot that nonsense when they camp steal, then the admins need to also "not recognize this thing you call 'pulled a train' for revenge." Either the refs choke on the whistle or they call it both ways, but don't favor one over the other.
In fact, my enchanter got her mezz/charm chops from derailing trains at pissed off groups who didn't like enchanter-equipped groups conquering too many camps at once, and they'd run trains to try and bounce us out of the dungeon. LGuk and Seb intentional trains were boot camp for me. Never petitioned a single person ever for running a train, and I never took a camp anyone had claimed in /ooc campcheck. I put them on my DO NOT GROUP list and all that, but players can handle this stuff on their own, no admins needed. And it goes the other direction too. If my necro does what necros do, which is wreck face on camps solo some people can't group with 4 people, well that's too bad. Take one of my spawns, and I will bring you many friends and then feign death right on top of you...whoops. Do it enough times, and yeah, I am spending the next week logging in and griefing you wherever I can find you, relentlessly, until the play nice policies of the community sink in. Admins need to let that kind of gameplay happen. For more on letting players police themselves, please see "EVE Online."
Beggars/gold sellers - I create a macro that does "/r Die in a fire" in every online game I ever play that has a chat window. I like my one and only answer hotkeyed for convenience. That said, while /ignore is nice and necessary, the gold spammers simple cycle through new players on the same account. I get that they are subscribing and helping with the bills, but I'd really like to see a dev start dropping IP bans if the person making the complaint can show proof in their chatlog that they got spammed. Hate spammers in my chat window, and Play Nice policies don't work because they aren't players, they are the intermediaries selling the real player's wares.
Group/raid finder - I understand the convenience, I get the methodology, and I used them in WoW, FF XIV, SW:TOR...but I would actually like it if P:RotF didn't have the mechanic. MAKE PEOPLE TALK TO EACH OTHER, even if only going into Trade/Merchant chat channels and hawking the LFG thing there, or just have an LFG page people can bring up, to make viewing LFG people easier than scrolling a chat window. But no "auto group, land you at dungeon entrance, never speak to teammates" stuff. The community atrophies with those auto group, auto locate tools. P:RotF will hopefully rise above that. Players should send tells to people..."hey saw you LFG for XYZ zone. If I join you for that, mind helping with ABC dungeon after? What say ye?"
Buffs - In every game since "SoW kplzthx" drove every EQ1 druid crazy, every forum for every in-demand buff caster in every game ever has griped...use complete sentences, be polite and while tipping is not mandatory, neither is me paying attention to you, so don't hop up and down and run around me in circles with your nonsense. I am all about class interdependency, but the WoW-kiddies of the world make that buff class a real annoyance. Given that, everyone should be allowed to be /anonymous and block /inspect. You want to saintly druid handing out SoW, the enchanter dropping KEI on everyone at the tree in PoK or the saintly MP giving out the mochies in Newland...whatever, but for people who want to play without being a buff dispenser for an hour, hopefully the devs give a way to turn off any indicator of what class you are.
Amsai said:
Also If you were in a party and your class was a specific role you were expected to perform your role. The only time a class was paid typically was for a service outside battle or agreed upon up front. Like a teleport, raise or a Power Level. Im not familiar with tipping. Could you explain this in more detail? Was/is this a common EQ practice?
Tipping was and is used to show thanks for a specific class performing a service for another player. This could be a Druid port, Shaman SoW, Enchanter Clarity, etc. This occurred outside of groups; no one was expected to tip for getting buffs from group members and it would be considered socially unacceptable to hold your group ransom for buffs. As you say, within a group players were expected to play and buff according to their specific roles.
@Amsai - I was speaking only of the town buff thing, not in groups while on the job. On the job, everyone should know their spellbook and buffs and be doing things the way they are supposed to be done. No questions asked.
I was referring to being the buffing t00n in a town where everyone pounds on you for that one buff everyone likes. In EQ1, that was Spirit of the Wolf (runspeed buff), Clarity (mana regen buff), and ports (druid/wizard speed travel). In Anarchy Online, it was Mochams Gift (huge Metaphysicist buff to every casting skill) and Gridspace Freedom (Fixer runspeed buff). Every game has that buff. And the people that can cast those spells get hammered by every person in the game. There's two ways to play that, one is rude, the other is polite. Polite people speak in whole sentences, offer tips (actually trading coin for the service), and say thank you. Having been both EQ1 enchnater and AO metaphysicist, maybe 30% of the player population is polite, the other 70%...not so much.
Less specifically, I like it when a game allows for unwritten rules, as opposed to putting in requirements/absolutes.
Allow us to tag mobs to pull, and people are expected to be civil and let you have your chance at the mob - not simply try to pull it off of you and steal it for their group. If I pull the reanimated hand in guk, I will be watching it's health the whole way back to frenzied camp, and if it drops a tic then I will be chasing down whoever stole it to out dps them or drag the guk lord onto their camp in hopes they learn.
Choosing to be an afk leecher in a group, or a complete loot whore, will either get you kicked from the group or worse. I can recall dragging a loot whores corpse to hide it on them. Wiping in Chef in sebilis due to a person who went afk for 15+ minutes without any word. His corpse ended up being left at sebilis exit.
IMO people need the opportunities to show their true colors, and just as well learn from others as to how they should be treating the community - otherwise they will find out in a social game that there is a black list for most players and reputation matters.