Old EQ had a very small optional tutorial area but you gained no xp there, it was simply for basic commands. When actually in game old EQ simply thru you in the thick of things. You figured things out quickly or you died and learned. Later on EQ added The Mines of Gloomingdeep, a tutorial zone you needed to complete before you entered the real game. Are you in favor of such tutorial zones or starter islands if done well? Or do you prefer to be in your hometown from the get go and thrown into the thick of things where you adapt or you die? Perhaps you prefer an option to choose between tutorial zones/starter islands or you home city which was how VG handled it in the end.
POLL:
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/polls/view/251/mandatory-tutorial-zones
Just Say No to Tutorial Zones.
Trial by fire. Throw em to the wolves. Swim or Drown.
I again side with, "Don't have the game do what the player base can do instead."
When you're thrown to the wolves with nothing but a note and a dagger, you're more likely (almost forced) to look for help from other players.
And thats where the beginings of the friendships and gaming community starts.
Tutorial zones generally remove the need for early communication amoung players. Hand holding from the very start is so bleh.
I prefer how EQ and VG did it. Starter areas based on your race and work your way from there. I would not mind if there was a starter zone for those who need it but don't make the armor or weapons better than what you get should you choose to go to the racial starting areas. I could see having both causing issues with finding groups at the start but I was able to level and the starter areas were typically smaller group content and as you leveled past 10 a full group became more necessary.
I don't think there needs to be a tutorial. Instead I would suggest to make short videos of actual gameplay which explain the game mechanics. Videos can also be nicely annotated with written comments (easier than to program such tutorial hints into the game, I guess). Make such videos for all important areas: basics, traveling, combat & death, trading, crafting, questing, etc.
Put these videos on the official game site, and also link to them from the launcher. Maybe also allow players to contribute videos (and offer prizes for especially well done ones)?
Over the years, tutorials simply became a way to give players better gear than they would start with if they skipped and went directly to their starting city. I definitely don't agree with that idea.
EQ had safe (mostly) areas inside the city walls and just outside of those walls. Early EQII had the nice little areas which were sections of the main city (Freeport or Qeynos) and one could feel relatively safe while learning the nuances of the game.
If any type of tutorial is done, the player should have the ability to circumvent. The tutorial should not give any armor more than what any other char would get.
I'm for just dropping the player in at their starting zone with no tutorial. The original tutorial of EQ was a single player standalone that basically was just there to give you the basic chat commands. The Mines of Gloomingdeep tried to make that more interactive but all it ended up doing was giving you better gear than what you would have before level 10, I remember thinking how overpowered the trinket you got just from talking to a few people in that zone was.
Tutorials should be for learning game mechanics, not for jump starting new players through the first few levels.
If we're going to talk about how the MMORPG player community has grown, let's consider the possibility that we've outgrown tutorials.
What do you really know to play Pantheon?
1. Actions have consequences. Most tutorials do negative reinforcement in this regard by making initial levels too easy. This also reinforces the idea that you're going to fly through levels to end game content.
2. As a new player I have very few skills to start out. The best way to learn how to use these skills is to experiment/practice as I adventure. As I gain new skills, I'll have to figure those out on my own as well.
3. The player community is your best source of help, tips and fun. Again, most tutorials negatively reinforce because they mirror the sorts of tutorials we see in single player games. The tutorial should focus on topics like "How do I communicate with other players?", "How do I find a group?" or "Where do I go to find work/tasks?"
I think most players will quickly figure out which way to aim the sparkly end of a wand or the the pointy end of a sword. I'm hoping Pantheon is going to have significant penalties for death or foolish behaviour such as trying to assassinate a local merchant. We need to relax the penalties for perhaps the first level or three, give them a warning and let them know that soon, these actions won't be forgiven as easily.
What makes a game rewarding is meeting challenges head on and figuring out things for yourself. Anyone who can't or won't take the time to explore the game (particularly at the limited scope given by a tutorial), probably isn't a candidate to play Pantheon on a long term basis anyway.
EQ mines style "tutorials" have no place in Pantheon. If you really feel a tutorial is needed then use this as an opportunity to immerse players in the lore and story line, while introducing a few basic mechanics.
Deep end of the pool. Drop them in, let them swim or drown, which EQ1 literally did in almost every starting zone in the game. If drowning couldn't kill you, falling off your town or auto-attacking your guildmaster/1st_NPC_you_attempt_chat_with did. Did anyone in vanilla EQ1 ever make it to 4 on their 1st toon without one of those three things killing them at least once? Welcome to Norrath, boys and girls, you're in for a rough ride!
Leave it like that, please. Forget learning curves, and have learning cliffs...that are jagged...and volcanic...and booby trapped...with snipers. The playerbase will love it and it will be part of the meta. Be everything to MMOs that Demon/Dark Souls is to single player RPGs, or Pillars of Eternity is to CRPGs. Welcome to the game...YOU'RE DEAD...L2play, loser!!
I liked the original tutorial in EQ. It was actually a separate .exe in the EQ folder and probably not many people even knew about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq87ECB9o8M
I believe the proper game should be fully conducive to immersion. That means, when you enter the world, you are in the world. No instance, no tutorial, what you see is what everyone else sees. It is the world. A tutorial you can access from character select that serves the same purpose as the original EQ standalone tutorial would be a good thing, but it should be optional and something you access separately.
I don't mind tutorial zones but I do think that you should be able to skip them if you want and that if you skip them it won't result in worse gear by the same level. So it if the tutorial zone is 1-5 then at 5 in a normal zone you would have comparable gear. Naturally the tutorial zone people will always have a slight advantage because they will have two areas sets of quest to select from but I think that can be managed some by rewarding the same gear slot in both areas. I also think that tutorial zones tend to act like trail zones and from what I remember the team wants to have a free trial zone area. I would rather have an instanced tutorial zone than instanced start zones.
Zaketh said:
I prefer how EQ and VG did it. Starter areas based on your race and work your way from there. I would not mind if there was a starter zone for those who need it but don't make the armor or weapons better than what you get should you choose to go to the racial starting areas. I could see having both causing issues with finding groups at the start but I was able to level and the starter areas were typically smaller group content and as you leveled past 10 a full group became more necessary.
I agree with Zaketh. (HI Z!!!) VG had 3 starter zones to choose from and each of us had out favorites. You learned game lore as you went. I would love to see this kind of option. Who remembers when faction was a issue early in the game and getting to another area was just a whole 'nother adventure lol.
I agree, no in game tutorial please! Actually, the original EQ at launch didn't have a tutorial zone in game. The tutorial was offline and completely seperate! You were a random person named soandso, and it basically taught you how to move around, attack, talk to people, use a bank, and that's about it. You then needed to log in and create a character, completely seperate of the tutorial. THAT is how it should be done IMO. This new era of "everyone starts here, then we'll port you to where you need to go" is a little lame, especially when you want to make an alt and don't want to redo it.
Also, later in EQ, but before the Gloomwater was added, they changed how you start and I didn't like it. Back in the day, you started out at the city gates (if you even started at the city at all) with a note, a rusty weapon, and a soiled tunic. You had to actually read the note which told you who to go see, then you had to go find them. You needed to learn your way around by yourself, or ask other players for help. Later they changed it so you started right next to your guild master. I liked that less, because it took the very first challenege of finding your way around out of the game.
I'll never forget how humbling my first day in EQ was. I made a Halfelf ranger, which meant that I didn't even start in Qeynos, I started in SFG. It was night and raining when I started, so I couldn't see at all. The very first thing I did was run right into the water and drown. So then I decided to make another character, this time starting in Kelethin. I sat at the elevator for a long time, and couldn't figure out how it worked. I basically sat around and waited for someone else to come along, and they made the elevator work. I didn't even realize it could be player controlled, so I assumed it was on a timer, when in reality other players were just playing elevator operator for me without me knowing. So then I get up onto the top, and incorrectly assume that there will be a safety invisible wall to keep me from falling, like so many other games. Imagine my horror when I fall off the edge and die. At that point I go back to my first character, and this time it's light out so I can see. Slowly figuring out how to differentiate an NPC from a player, learning how to ask for help, and eventually being escorted to Qeynos by another friendly player were huge in my first day of the game.
Through my own investigation, I learned how to talk to NPCs, made my first friend, and gained a respect for the world and learned to not take anything for granted in this game. Even before the death penalties set in, I already knew this world was relentless. It also instilled an image in your mind that mobs weren't going to be the only challenge around. I feel like modern games are setup that the only real challenges are mob related. In EQ, you could feel very accomplished just freaking getting somewhere. You could feel rewarded by actually exploring. I mean, I actually felt excited when I learned how to opperate an elevator for crying out loud. I think modern MMOs have too many helper mechanics to make sure you never have to struggle unless it's mob related, and even that is less of a struggle.
You can't teach those things or make friends with strangers with a tutorial involved. Also, I've noticed people are less helpful in more carebear games. If you don't know something, people are like "well why don't you go google it then asshole?" We could still go (altavista LOL) things in EQ days, but everyone was so much more understanding of newbs because they knew how hard and relentless things were, and remember learning things the hard way. They were much more likely to lend a hand, and it's a lot more fun learning the ropes from a more experienced player, then playing mentor yourself someday down the road.
i think in these days, everyone knows the basic workings of an MMO, so a tutorial is pretty much irrelevant. I prefer to be thrown into the world and figure it out myself. i think most people these days who are going to start a new mmo have friends that either already play it, or are starting together with them. i remember getting tells from low level rogues asking for advice or directions or how to do something.