These are great ideas everyone. I too would like to see 'focus' play a role in casting spells while on the move. I also think that certain powerful spells should require that you channel them in a static state.
disposalist said:I would like to see some class equality and balance here. I don't see why it's just casters that need to concentrate or be intricate in their movements to succeed in their abilities.
I think that tanks and melee classes could use 'balance' instead of focus. 'Balance' could be maintained by holding your position, using 'balancing' abilities, and reacting to certain moves from your opponents. Things that might decrease balance: stuns, wild or overly strong attacks on your part, large amounts of damage in a short period, certain spells, mob abilities, and environmental effects.
Nanfoodle said:So I have seen it said a few times now that there is no kiting in this game or its been nurfed. Can I ask how so? This post seems to say otherwise but it is 2 years old.
I've seen no mention of kiting not being in this game or it being nerfed. Where have you read this?
Iksar said:Nanfoodle said:So I have seen it said a few times now that there is no kiting in this game or its been nurfed. Can I ask how so? This post seems to say otherwise but it is 2 years old.
I've seen no mention of kiting not being in this game or it being nerfed. Where have you read this?
On a few different forums including mmorpg.com
Nanfoodle said:Iksar said:Nanfoodle said:So I have seen it said a few times now that there is no kiting in this game or its been nurfed. Can I ask how so? This post seems to say otherwise but it is 2 years old.
I've seen no mention of kiting not being in this game or it being nerfed. Where have you read this?
On a few different forums including mmorpg.com
That doesn't really mean anything. mmorpg.com is still outsiders looking in. They could have misunderstood. Personally I only go off of what I hear directly from the devs. And not once have I heard them say kiting won't be possible or even nerfed, so I'd just disregard that. In fact, quite the opposite - with the ability to move while casting most spells, kiting will be even easier in some cases. That was confirmed in the recent FAQ update.
Yeah Nanfoodle, I haven't seen anything that would prevent kiting so far, they have used roots and snares in the stream, and I think kiting has been mentioned as a possible crowd control method? Somewhere? Now, will a snare last for 15 minutes like EQ did? I'm thinking probably not, but haven't seen info on that in particular.
I believe this idea originated from a post that Kilsin made on mmorpg.com that another user (who as near as I can tell doesnt even like the game) misinterpreted and ran with. Now I do think that with the behaviors and dispositions and just smarter AI in general its possible this wont be a tactic you can use with just any mob. Maybe they are long distance casters/shooters? Maybe they can outrun you as they are a faster type of mob? But I can imagine a stupid or slow melee type mob being kitable to the end of the earth. That being said I dont think every mob should be kitable nor should it be something you can keep up for a long time. At some point you should run out of resources and need to med or something. And then say you can CC while you do that? Fine, but then at some point it should become immune or highly resistant to this to prevent abuse.
So while I think it shouldnt be a go to or too convenient a strategy, it should still be possible in some cases. Just not OP as hell and abusable.
Amsai said:I believe this idea originated from a post that Kilsin made on mmorpg.com that another user (who as near as I can tell doesnt even like the game) misinterpreted and ran with. Now I do think that with the behaviors and dispositions and just smarter AI in general its possible this wont be a tactic you can use with just any mob. Maybe they are long distance casters/shooters? Maybe they can outrun you as they are a faster type of mob? But I can imagine a stupid or slow melee type mob being kitable to the end of the earth. That being said I dont think every mob should be kitable nor should it be something you can keep up for a long time. At some point you should run out of resources and need to med or something. And then say you can CC while you do that? Fine, but then at some point it should become immune or highly resistant to this to prevent abuse.
So while I think it shouldnt be a go to or too convenient a strategy, it should still be possible in some cases. Just not OP as hell and abusable.
That's a very good point. Perhaps that's what the writer misinterpreted. I did mention in another thread that more intelligent mobs will make it so that they are less likely to just follow you around in circles while you drain their life, because they will pretty quickly realize that that's a losing strategy and will change their tactics and adapt. Players will have to be more creative to be successful rather than repetitively abusing poor AI and pathing. But it's still a bit of a stretch imo to then say that kiting has been nerfed.
The FAQ talks about movement while casting saying "Most spells can be cast when you are moving, however they will more often than not slow down your movement speed. Some spells will require you to stand and not move; likewise, some spells may not slow your movement speed. Additionally, while most spells are spoken, some are gestured, the latter being very handy when an area is silenced by a player or NPC." Which leads me to believe that quad-kiting and the like will be muuuch more difficult if possible at all.
Nanfoodle said:Hmmm thanks for the post, maybe Kilsin will clear things up if he has time =-) If not we wait and see.
You guys just need to flick back to the first page, Brad answers this quite clearly, which is why it is important to start reading the thread from the beginning, rather than reading the last few posts and inserting an opinion based on other peoples opinions, more often than not myself or another team member will answer the question in the first few pages, if it is not already available via FAQ or other sources ;)
"Here is the plan -- more details to follow as we approach/start beta:
1. Some spells will allow you to move at normal speed when casting
2. Some spells will slow you down when casting, but you are still moving
3. Some spells will require you to stay in one spot while casting.
It's the how many, what are the percentages of each, and which ones, etc. that probably won't be answerable until beta because that's when we'll have people in testing.
It's I guess a mixture of EQ & VG, although that may be an over-simplification."
Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
Kilsin said:It's the how many, what are the percentages of each, and which ones, etc. that probably won't be answerable until beta because that's when we'll have people in testing.
That's the answer right there. Will kiting be a thing? Magic 8 ball says "Try again later." Too much to consider that is involed in kiting to have an answer right now.
Rominian said:Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
But isn't that what you do while kiting? :D
It answers the question by saying we will have variable casting options, some spells will allow you to move while casting = kiting, others will slow you down = not ideal but could work for short distances with speed buffs and some spells will make you stop and concentrate = not ideal for kiting, unless you have a death wish and love living life by the seat of your pants lol :)
Kiting is essentially running around in circles and weird patterns to stay away from a mobs attack radius while casting something to damage the mob, and since we will allow players to run and answered the casting question, it should now be crystal clear my friend :)
Rominian said:Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
I agree that question would be more centered around mob AI, and less so about spells and casting movement, as the kiting was a mere result of predictable mob behavior. If Pantheon has a more robust AI, then kiting may not be possible, or may be but with some tweaks or alternate style.
Kilsin said:Rominian said:Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
But isn't that what you do while kiting? :D
It answers the question by saying we will have variable casting options, some spells will allow you to move while casting = kiting, others will slow you down = not ideal but could work for short distances with speed buffs and some spells will make you stop and concentrate = not ideal for kiting, unless you have a death wish and love living life by the seat of your pants lol :)
Kiting is essentially running around in circles and weird patterns to stay away from a mobs attack radius while casting something to damage the mob, and since we will allow players to run and answered the casting question, it should now be crystal clear my friend :)
From experiance (Quad kilting Wizard in EQ)
Really? Everquest does not allow moving while casting damage spells. Yet there is kiting
Not as crystal clear as a Rogue might think my friend.
/em rolls eyes
There is a lot more to kiting than casting while running arround in circles, or at least there is in other games. Your saying thats all there is to it in Patheon?
Zorkon said:Kilsin said:Rominian said:Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
But isn't that what you do while kiting? :D
It answers the question by saying we will have variable casting options, some spells will allow you to move while casting = kiting, others will slow you down = not ideal but could work for short distances with speed buffs and some spells will make you stop and concentrate = not ideal for kiting, unless you have a death wish and love living life by the seat of your pants lol :)
Kiting is essentially running around in circles and weird patterns to stay away from a mobs attack radius while casting something to damage the mob, and since we will allow players to run and answered the casting question, it should now be crystal clear my friend :)From experiance (Quad kilting Wizard in EQ)
Really? Everquest does not allow moving while casting damage spells. Yet there is kiting
Not as crystal clear as a Rogue might think my friend.
/em rolls eyes
There is a lot more to kiting than casting while running arround in circles, or at least there is in other games. Your saying thats all there is to it in Patheon?
You're*
Yes, I had to be that guy....lol sorry carry on
As long as mobs take the full force of a spell cast on it while the mob is moving (currently less in EQ, at least on TLP, hence kiting nerfed), there is snare and there is SoW, there will be kiting. Don't see how there wouldnt be. Someone will figure it out in beta rather quickly I'd bet.
Sevens said:Zorkon said:Kilsin said:Rominian said:Respectfully, Brad's original response answers the spell casting question, but not what Nanfoodle asked about kiting, which was what we were responding to, I think. As far as I can tell, whether or not a spell is cast on the move is not relevant to kiting being possible, since I could routinely quad kite mobs, sit and med for a few seconds, get up and run off, being forced to look at a spell book on my screen as I did so. All I had to do was learn to count. :) I would think mob AI and duration of snares would be far more impactful to this particular technique. Perhaps commenting on kiting is premature, which I totally understand.:)
But isn't that what you do while kiting? :D
It answers the question by saying we will have variable casting options, some spells will allow you to move while casting = kiting, others will slow you down = not ideal but could work for short distances with speed buffs and some spells will make you stop and concentrate = not ideal for kiting, unless you have a death wish and love living life by the seat of your pants lol :)
Kiting is essentially running around in circles and weird patterns to stay away from a mobs attack radius while casting something to damage the mob, and since we will allow players to run and answered the casting question, it should now be crystal clear my friend :)From experiance (Quad kilting Wizard in EQ)
Really? Everquest does not allow moving while casting damage spells. Yet there is kiting
Not as crystal clear as a Rogue might think my friend.
/em rolls eyes
There is a lot more to kiting than casting while running arround in circles, or at least there is in other games. Your saying thats all there is to it in Patheon?
You're*
Yes, I had to be that guy....lol sorry carry on
You Are correct, thanks for the assist.
