+1 for PLENTY of space for the "save everything you come across" crowd. Even with the ample spaces afforded in modern day EQ and WoW, I'd still end up filling toons to the brim with tradeskill stuff, quest items, alt gear, random stuff I didn't know the use for, etc. etc.
This especially becomes burdensome for alt-a-holics with multiple tradeskills across their characters saving items not just for 2 or 3 trades, but potentially all of them.
And since technically you could just keep making mules to increase space (up to the character limit), it would be nice to save the logging / relogging process and give us plenty of room.
I suppose it really comes down to logistics like serverside character save file sizes and the technicalities giving us unlimited or mega space would create. I imagine it could potentially get buggy or out of control..
But knowing the number of different drops in the game, stack sizes, etc. the devs could make pretty good estimates of how much space any one account would need assuming someone is a loot hoarder and adjust our capacities accordingly, hopefully being generous in doing so.
Was always a pet peeve of mine being forced to thin my stocks of items i would have otherwise kept, to accomodate influx.
I like the Faction thing. If they like me they give me more Bank Space :). This would be neat with the fact that banks aren't global. Meaning If I have 10 spaces for bags amoung the Gnomes as exalted, I may only have 4 amoung Humans or something. Even with this though it means I could have tons of Bank space if you include all my Spaces in each city. Then if I have a Guild Bank or something. I think that would be really neat myself. Maybe I want to store comestic items in my Human Bank, but all my Crafting stuff in my Gnome Bank. Don't make it unlimited, but make it to where with work you can build enough rep in each city and town to have a ton of overall storage at different locations.
Saicred said:I like the Faction thing. If they like me they give me more Bank Space :). This would be neat with the fact that banks aren't global. Meaning If I have 10 spaces for bags amoung the Gnomes as exalted, I may only have 4 amoung Humans or something. Even with this though it means I could have tons of Bank space if you include all my Spaces in each city. Then if I have a Guild Bank or something. I think that would be really neat myself. Maybe I want to store comestic items in my Human Bank, but all my Crafting stuff in my Gnome Bank. Don't make it unlimited, but make it to where with work you can build enough rep in each city and town to have a ton of overall storage at different locations.
Saicred this is exactly what I had in mind as well and it gives great reason to go out and earn this. Those traders that are in good standing with many cities will have an edge over others, especially if you can only sell items in that city. We won't know how auctions will go yet.
So given a system like this, what if there was a tranfer / transport option you could pay for, arrives in "x" amount of minutes depending on distance? Maybe limit the amount of items you can transfer at once. Elite Dangerous has this method and it is really effective at removing money out of the market.
Enitzu said:Beefcake said:Let me buy in game bank space with in game currency. If I was an adventurer with money to throw around, how would that be any different then renting a storage unit/barn from some townie?
This is true but eventually those storage buildings would be rented out. Then what?
Unlimited storage to me means that there is no reason for me to ever sell anything really unless I just simply need money. I can bank all crafting mats, gear, weapons, hell everything because it just doesn't matter. I mean who knows when I'll need one of those things 2 years from now right? Limited space forces people to make choices. It forces an economy to be born. if everyone just becomes a hoarder then the economy will be pretty small.
If all the space was rented out, any merchant worth anything would build more.
Why should people be FORCED to sell anything? If people earn items, let them keep them.
Too many people here want everyone to be FORCED to do something.
If we are looking for a long lasting gold sink then we need to purchase bank slots and pay a regular fee for them. Which is decently unrealistic
Otherwise its only an early game gold sink that loses effectiveness once you get as many slots as you want.
I like the idea of a bigger bank, that way people who don't want to sell the cool stuff they find right away can hold onto it. Also you can get things set up for alts/progenys. Those who buy/sell equipment for a profit always need big banks. I see no reason to restrict them too much.
Beefcake said:If all the space was rented out, any merchant worth anything would build more.Why should people be FORCED to sell anything? If people earn items, let them keep them.
Too many people here want everyone to be FORCED to do something.
Yep. And of course, at first glance, that seems terrible. How awful, to force people to things!
Yet when you think about it, that's how the world works. People are forced to use stop signs, to refrain from murder, to maintain their homes in fancy neighborhoods...
Humanity in general is chaotic and there are some people, as we all know, who like to go into schools and mass murder children. I think we can all agree that preventing that is a good thing... and once we know that you want people who mass murder children to be forced out of schools... then we just need to know your price, so to speak. If you can agree any degree of force is acceptable, then we know that the only thing we need to do is find your threshhold of who should or shouldn't be forced and to what degree.
In the game, do you want everyone forced to a level playing field, or do you want people to be able to pay money for Godmode?
Do you want people forced off the server if they are intentional griefers (banned for exploiting/ griefing, etc.?)?
Do you want everyone forced to a level playing field without pay to win? Or do you want pay to win because "it's fair and shouldn't be prevented"?
The question isn't whether it's good or bad to force people to certain behaviors, playing fields, etc. The question is whether this particular issue is one that should be enforced, forced, or optional.
Everyone wants people forced to something. That's just reality. And in a game like this, things like people being forced to go get their body back DOES matter, because of the degree of fear it inspires, which impacts the sense of "reality" of the game (which is what brings people back over and over again).
In every single game dynamic, someone is forced to something. A person who is against unlimited banks will be forced to have one if that is implemented. If pay-to-bank is implemented, people who want unlimited (or X limited) banking will be forced to use the pay-to-bank system that exists whether they like it or not. There's no way to "not force" something in this particular scenario. I do NOT want to pay for bank space, and I sure as heck do not want to pay a monthly fee to maintain it. If that system goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it just like everyone else. I do NOT want an unlimited bank with no tabs. If that goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it like everyone else.
"Forced" is going to be part of this discussion one way or another. Everyone wants everyone forced to their own play style to some degree or another. If we can just be honest about that and not pick on each other for it, we'll have far more free and open discussions.
"I want everyone forced to limited banking." "I want everyone forced to unlimited banking." "I want everyone forced to pay for their banking." "I want everyone forced to faction-based banking."
Now it's an honest conversation without the side-rail of, "STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE!"
Whatever dynamic ends up in the game, you WILL BE FORCED TO USE THAT. Even if options are presented, you are FORCED to choose between only the available options. That's just a fact.
In the USA, we were forced to a choice just recently... vote for Hillary, vote for Trump, don't vote, or waste your vote. The option to get someone else in the white house just didn't exist. Period. That's a fact.
Everyone wants their own banking style in the game and everyone will be forced to use it, one way or another--or forced to not use it. Still... the end result is "forcing".
Let's not belittle each other for wanting the game made the way we want it to be made. It's human nature and it's perfectly okay. The devs will do what they will do, ultimately.
Amris said:Beefcake said:If all the space was rented out, any merchant worth anything would build more.Why should people be FORCED to sell anything? If people earn items, let them keep them.
Too many people here want everyone to be FORCED to do something.
Yep. And of course, at first glance, that seems terrible. How awful, to force people to things!
Yet when you think about it, that's how the world works. People are forced to use stop signs, to refrain from murder, to maintain their homes in fancy neighborhoods...
Humanity in general is chaotic and there are some people, as we all know, who like to go into schools and mass murder children. I think we can all agree that preventing that is a good thing... and once we know that you want people who mass murder children to be forced out of schools... then we just need to know your price, so to speak. If you can agree any degree of force is acceptable, then we know that the only thing we need to do is find your threshhold of who should or shouldn't be forced and to what degree.
In the game, do you want everyone forced to a level playing field, or do you want people to be able to pay money for Godmode?
Do you want people forced off the server if they are intentional griefers (banned for exploiting/ griefing, etc.?)?
Do you want everyone forced to a level playing field without pay to win? Or do you want pay to win because "it's fair and shouldn't be prevented"?
The question isn't whether it's good or bad to force people to certain behaviors, playing fields, etc. The question is whether this particular issue is one that should be enforced, forced, or optional.
Everyone wants people forced to something. That's just reality. And in a game like this, things like people being forced to go get their body back DOES matter, because of the degree of fear it inspires, which impacts the sense of "reality" of the game (which is what brings people back over and over again).
In every single game dynamic, someone is forced to something. A person who is against unlimited banks will be forced to have one if that is implemented. If pay-to-bank is implemented, people who want unlimited (or X limited) banking will be forced to use the pay-to-bank system that exists whether they like it or not. There's no way to "not force" something in this particular scenario. I do NOT want to pay for bank space, and I sure as heck do not want to pay a monthly fee to maintain it. If that system goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it just like everyone else. I do NOT want an unlimited bank with no tabs. If that goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it like everyone else.
"Forced" is going to be part of this discussion one way or another. Everyone wants everyone forced to their own play style to some degree or another. If we can just be honest about that and not pick on each other for it, we'll have far more free and open discussions.
"I want everyone forced to limited banking." "I want everyone forced to unlimited banking." "I want everyone forced to pay for their banking." "I want everyone forced to faction-based banking."
Now it's an honest conversation without the side-rail of, "STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE!"
Whatever dynamic ends up in the game, you WILL BE FORCED TO USE THAT. Even if options are presented, you are FORCED to choose between only the available options. That's just a fact.
In the USA, we were forced to a choice just recently... vote for Hillary, vote for Trump, don't vote, or waste your vote. The option to get someone else in the white house just didn't exist. Period. That's a fact.
Everyone wants their own banking style in the game and everyone will be forced to use it, one way or another--or forced to not use it. Still... the end result is "forcing".
Let's not belittle each other for wanting the game made the way we want it to be made. It's human nature and it's perfectly okay. The devs will do what they will do, ultimately.
Please refrain from IRL politics here. Your whole argument is complete hyperbole/overkill to what I was discussing. Clearly, this conversation has gone off the rails. Enjoy your day.
BeaverBiscuit said:If we are looking for a long lasting gold sink then we need to purchase bank slots and pay a regular fee for them. Which is decently unrealistic
Otherwise its only an early game gold sink that loses effectiveness once you get as many slots as you want.
I like the idea of a bigger bank, that way people who don't want to sell the cool stuff they find right away can hold onto it. Also you can get things set up for alts/progenys. Those who buy/sell equipment for a profit always need big banks. I see no reason to restrict them too much.
I would agree with a regular rent fee for extra bank space, not just a one-time fee.
Beefcake said:Please refrain from IRL politics here. Your whole argument is complete hyperbole/overkill to what I was discussing. Clearly, this conversation has gone off the rails. Enjoy your day.
No, it isn't hyperbole. I fully intend that it be taken seriously. I said what I meant, I meant what I said, and no one gets to tell me that I didn't intend for it to be taken seriously.
Whatever choice they make, people will be forced to use it. That's not hyperbole, it's fact. Everyone wants to argue for their own preference, and that's another fact. What's hyperbole is "don't ask to force people to things". That cannot be taken seriously because, whoever 'gets their way' in this issue, everyone else will be forced to their method.
Because you don't like what I said doesn't mean you get to dismiss it as hyperbole. The speaker gets to decide whether their words are hyperbole, no one else.
Amris said:Beefcake said:If all the space was rented out, any merchant worth anything would build more.Why should people be FORCED to sell anything? If people earn items, let them keep them.
Too many people here want everyone to be FORCED to do something.
Yep. And of course, at first glance, that seems terrible. How awful, to force people to things!
Yet when you think about it, that's how the world works. People are forced to use stop signs, to refrain from murder, to maintain their homes in fancy neighborhoods...
Humanity in general is chaotic and there are some people, as we all know, who like to go into schools and mass murder children. I think we can all agree that preventing that is a good thing... and once we know that you want people who mass murder children to be forced out of schools... then we just need to know your price, so to speak. If you can agree any degree of force is acceptable, then we know that the only thing we need to do is find your threshhold of who should or shouldn't be forced and to what degree.
In the game, do you want everyone forced to a level playing field, or do you want people to be able to pay money for Godmode?
Do you want people forced off the server if they are intentional griefers (banned for exploiting/ griefing, etc.?)?
Do you want everyone forced to a level playing field without pay to win? Or do you want pay to win because "it's fair and shouldn't be prevented"?
The question isn't whether it's good or bad to force people to certain behaviors, playing fields, etc. The question is whether this particular issue is one that should be enforced, forced, or optional.
Everyone wants people forced to something. That's just reality. And in a game like this, things like people being forced to go get their body back DOES matter, because of the degree of fear it inspires, which impacts the sense of "reality" of the game (which is what brings people back over and over again).
In every single game dynamic, someone is forced to something. A person who is against unlimited banks will be forced to have one if that is implemented. If pay-to-bank is implemented, people who want unlimited (or X limited) banking will be forced to use the pay-to-bank system that exists whether they like it or not. There's no way to "not force" something in this particular scenario. I do NOT want to pay for bank space, and I sure as heck do not want to pay a monthly fee to maintain it. If that system goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it just like everyone else. I do NOT want an unlimited bank with no tabs. If that goes into the game, I'll be forced to use it like everyone else.
"Forced" is going to be part of this discussion one way or another. Everyone wants everyone forced to their own play style to some degree or another. If we can just be honest about that and not pick on each other for it, we'll have far more free and open discussions.
"I want everyone forced to limited banking." "I want everyone forced to unlimited banking." "I want everyone forced to pay for their banking." "I want everyone forced to faction-based banking."
Now it's an honest conversation without the side-rail of, "STOP TRYING TO FORCE PEOPLE!"
Whatever dynamic ends up in the game, you WILL BE FORCED TO USE THAT. Even if options are presented, you are FORCED to choose between only the available options. That's just a fact.
In the USA, we were forced to a choice just recently... vote for Hillary, vote for Trump, don't vote, or waste your vote. The option to get someone else in the white house just didn't exist. Period. That's a fact.
Everyone wants their own banking style in the game and everyone will be forced to use it, one way or another--or forced to not use it. Still... the end result is "forcing".
Let's not belittle each other for wanting the game made the way we want it to be made. It's human nature and it's perfectly okay. The devs will do what they will do, ultimately.
First of all, much of what your bring up here has nothing to do with games, real life logic and game logic rarely mix to make valid arguments. second, political rhetoric is generally forbidden on forums due to the controversy of opinions surrounding it.
We don't need unlimited space, but we do need adequate space. The problem has been in recent games, “adequate” has usually leaned towards to the side of barely any at all, making it very difficult for dedicated crafters, while hack n slash adventures generally go unaffected since they sell most stuff immediately.
The idea of renting bank space is preposterous to me, I don't horde items just for the sake of it, I keep supplies around for crafting purposes, and if I had to pay rental fees that just means I cant build up a stock of supplies or I'm increasing my overhead. That means ill have to accept an order before ever getting the supplies, and I don't like working that way, so I wont. Id rather pay 1000X the cost to buy over renting even if its “cheap”.
Half the fun for me is gathering supplies, I enjoy it, it keeps my cost down ect… renting would mean items stored in the bank were constantly adding to the cost of the items they were used to make, and for what a gold sink? No, find one that affects everyone equally and not just crafters.
You can ignore the validity of my point and focus as hard as you can on everything you didn't like about what I said. It doesn't change anything. Whatever dynamic they choose, everyone will be FORCED to use it. With regards to banking and everything else.
Or you can just not play the game.
Telling people to stop asking that people be forced to use strategy or be forced to experience negative consequences for griefing, etc. etc. is disingenuous--or more realistically, blatantly dishonest and hypocritical. Pretty simple.
Amris said:You can ignore the validity of my point and focus as hard as you can on everything you didn't like about what I said. It doesn't change anything. Whatever dynamic they choose, everyone will be FORCED to use it. With regards to banking and everything else.
Or you can just not play the game.
Telling people to stop asking that people be forced to use strategy or be forced to experience negative consequences for griefing, etc. etc. is disingenuous--or more realistically, blatantly dishonest and hypocritical. Pretty simple.
My comments were about banking, brokering, etc, which were the subject of the thread. You decided to take it to a whole new level about griefing, strategies, and other off-topic nonsense.
Just keep on topic and we will be fine.
HemlockReaper said:The idea of renting bank space is preposterous to me, I don't horde items just for the sake of it, I keep supplies around for crafting purposes, and if I had to pay rental fees that just means I’m cant build up a stock of supplies or I'm increasing my overhead. That means ill have to accept an order before ever getting the supplies, and I don't like working that way, so I wont. Id rather pay 1000X the cost to buy over renting even if its “cheap”.
Half the fun for me is gathering supplies, I enjoy it, it keeps my cost down ect… renting would mean items stored in the bank were constantly adding to the cost of the items they were used to make, and for what a gold sink? No, find one that affects everyone equally and not just crafters.
I can get on board with owning bank space instead of renting it. For a higher price, you should be able to have permanent space, such as buying a storage barn versus renting it.
I don't like to sell everything. Between the wife and I, we usually horde things, especially crafting materials. No point in selling something that may become valuable and useful later. Also, many items change through nerds/buffs, etc. One day an item is junk, the next it's the absolute meta.
Beefcake said:My comments were about banking, brokering, etc, which were the subject of the thread. You decided to take it to a whole new level about griefing, strategies, and other off-topic nonsense.
Just keep on topic and we will be fine.
It's completely on topic, which is what you ignored. Some people want banking to be another level or form of strategizing. Some want that to be strategizing their ability to afford their banking maintenance, some want it to be managing limited space, and some want it to be unlimited banking where some folks might struggle to find their items.
Regardless, everyone on every side of this issue wants something forced. Even you. So why do you want everyone forced to your preference, but they can't say they want people forced to their preference?
You can't get away from forcing people on any issue in this game. Someone's going to have to live with something they don't like about the banking system no matter what they do.
You want people to have to CC instead of AoE in another thread. How is that any different?
Beefcake said:HemlockReaper said:The idea of renting bank space is preposterous to me, I don't horde items just for the sake of it, I keep supplies around for crafting purposes, and if I had to pay rental fees that just means I’m cant build up a stock of supplies or I'm increasing my overhead. That means ill have to accept an order before ever getting the supplies, and I don't like working that way, so I wont. Id rather pay 1000X the cost to buy over renting even if its “cheap”.
Half the fun for me is gathering supplies, I enjoy it, it keeps my cost down ect… renting would mean items stored in the bank were constantly adding to the cost of the items they were used to make, and for what a gold sink? No, find one that affects everyone equally and not just crafters.
I can get on board with owning bank space instead of renting it. For a higher price, you should be able to have permanent space, such as buying a storage barn versus renting it.
I don't like to sell everything. Between the wife and I, we usually horde things, especially crafting materials. No point in selling something that may become valuable and useful later. Also, many items change through nerds/buffs, etc. One day an item is junk, the next it's the absolute meta.
Amris said:Beefcake said:My comments were about banking, brokering, etc, which were the subject of the thread. You decided to take it to a whole new level about griefing, strategies, and other off-topic nonsense.
Just keep on topic and we will be fine.
It's completely on topic, which is what you ignored. Some people want banking to be another level or form of strategizing. Some want that to be strategizing their ability to afford their banking maintenance, some want it to be managing limited space, and some want it to be unlimited banking where some folks might struggle to find their items.
Regardless, everyone on every side of this issue wants something forced. Even you. So why do you want everyone forced to your preference, but they can't say they want people forced to their preference?
You can't get away from forcing people on any issue in this game. Someone's going to have to live with something they don't like about the banking system no matter what they do.
You want people to have to CC instead of AoE in another thread. How is that any different?
Not sure what specifically set you off today. If I offended you somewhere, I apologize.
My comments are to allow options, multiple ways of doing something, and allowing players to CHOOSE which way they want to do something. If you want to have limited bank space, keep the defaults. You want more space, spend hard-earned in game coin to get more. It's a choice of different styles, of which both are valid and have their points.
As you claim, all rules/systems involve inherent restrictions. However, allowing multiple balanced options, is good game design.
But, you are wrong. Not everyone wants to force everyone else to do something a specific way. Some so, true. But many of us just want balanced options to be available. VR will determine what balance is appropriate and we will give feedback. If they agree, they will change it. If not, we will still play in their world.
HemlockReaper said:Beefcake said:HemlockReaper said:The idea of renting bank space is preposterous to me, I don't horde items just for the sake of it, I keep supplies around for crafting purposes, and if I had to pay rental fees that just means I’m cant build up a stock of supplies or I'm increasing my overhead. That means ill have to accept an order before ever getting the supplies, and I don't like working that way, so I wont. Id rather pay 1000X the cost to buy over renting even if its “cheap”.
Half the fun for me is gathering supplies, I enjoy it, it keeps my cost down ect… renting would mean items stored in the bank were constantly adding to the cost of the items they were used to make, and for what a gold sink? No, find one that affects everyone equally and not just crafters.
I can get on board with owning bank space instead of renting it. For a higher price, you should be able to have permanent space, such as buying a storage barn versus renting it.
I don't like to sell everything. Between the wife and I, we usually horde things, especially crafting materials. No point in selling something that may become valuable and useful later. Also, many items change through nerds/buffs, etc. One day an item is junk, the next it's the absolute meta.
LOL, of course. Only Nerds want Nerfs.
+1 for the infinite bank space if VR makes banks local and not global.
But if you choose to put loads of stuff in your bank you need to pay a heavy weekly fee to keep using all of the extra bank space.
I like the faction idea. Question would be what happens if your faction falls below a level and you lose a bank space you currently have something in?
Not a fan of just giving everyone unlimited. I like supporting crafters ability to make larger bags and boxes. I am not a crafter so I cannnot relate to those that horde everything, but I always appreciated knowing someone that could craft me a large bag, especially early on in the game when money and space is limited.
I also like options. Do I want to save money, or faction grind, or even quest to get more spots? Also a shared bank is a must.
Graivus said:I like the faction idea. Question would be what happens if your faction falls below a level and you lose a bank space you currently have something in?
I have no actual knowledge, but I would guess you would lose access to those items until your faction was back up. Similarly to how many free to play games work. You can have a boatload of characters, but once you unsubscribe and go FTP, you lose access to all that is not allowed under the FTP system.
Graivus said:I like the faction idea. Question would be what happens if your faction falls below a level and you lose a bank space you currently have something in?
Not a fan of just giving everyone unlimited. I like supporting crafters ability to make larger bags and boxes. I am not a crafter so I cannnot relate to those that horde everything, but I always appreciated knowing someone that could craft me a large bag, especially early on in the game when money and space is limited.
I also like options. Do I want to save money, or faction grind, or even quest to get more spots? Also a shared bank is a must.
Losing faction would be kind of like not being able to pay your monthly bank fee. I guess if they did put that in they could make it like corpse runs and put all of your items in a box near the bank?
I also like your idea of bigger bags and admit I hadn't thought about it that way. I agree, screw big banks, give crafters and farmers their due and make bags/boxxes necessary for banks. You could even have bags and boxxes that only work in banks that are maybe bigger. In fact, you could mix it with the bank fee idea to appease both sides a little better. TBH I don't like the idea of one time fees payed to NPCs because they aren't lasting gold sinks and won't be effective long.
I actually agree with shared bank between characters, but if you mean between continents I don't really like that idea. I'll be a buy/seller and my bank will be wherever people are most likely to buy things haha. Also it could work towards a bigger bank since I could allocate things I'm not likely to use for a while to some other area.
Beefcake said:Not sure what specifically set you off today. If I offended you somewhere, I apologize.
My comments are to allow options, multiple ways of doing something, and allowing players to CHOOSE which way they want to do something. If you want to have limited bank space, keep the defaults. You want more space, spend hard-earned in game coin to get more. It's a choice of different styles, of which both are valid and have their points.
As you claim, all rules/systems involve inherent restrictions. However, allowing multiple balanced options, is good game design.
But, you are wrong. Not everyone wants to force everyone else to do something a specific way. Some so, true. But many of us just want balanced options to be available. VR will determine what balance is appropriate and we will give feedback. If they agree, they will change it. If not, we will still play in their world.
To hopefully clear things up for you beefcake, you clearly said you don't like it when people try to force others to do things. That is a very general statement about much more than bank sizes, or any other single topic. Amris had reason to heat up to your statement. Imagine someone calling you a fascist, in a much more subtle and insulting manner. Even if you aren't like him and don't feel you said that, please do be respectful, you set him off.
Though Amris went a bit far in his argument, his idea remains true. Even giving people options is forcing people to do something. Even a complete and total sandbox forces people to play in a complete and total sandbox, particularly with the pressures of the sandbox community. And with competition, they will be forced to play the best possible way in that sandbox. We all like our own opinions and are like to believe them fair, but you will always find people who feel your opinions are just as forceful as you think theirs are. You will just need to accept it. Remember that even something so basic as the Pantheon game tenants are VR forcing us to play Pantheon in a way they feel we should. Heck, even telling someone not to force people to play how they want them to play is trying to force someone to do something.
P.S. Well played hemlock=)
