Koreno said:I do not like the idea of an unlimited bank size by default.
However, I have seen bank typically setup in one of 3 ways.
- Either like EQ and EQ2 where you have a set number of bank slots where you can but any sized bag you can get within that slot. The bigger the bags the bigger the bank.
- Like WoW where there was separate bank tabs you had to purchase.
- The other way I seen it is a single bank tab/bag that you could expand.
As I have said in many other threads, creating enough money sinks is one of the major challenges for developers. If you started with an unlimited sized bank you eliminate a big one. A lot of money is spent to craft all those bags people buy to put in all their alts banks. So my proposal is as such....
I propose we start with 2 bank tabs. a Personal tab and a Shared tab. Personal is for that specific character and the shared tab is for all characters on that account. Each tab starts with a limited number of spaces. However, each tab could be expanded via purchase. Each time you expand a tab, the cost of the next expansion grows. You could do this forever as long as you had the money for it.
This would solver 2 issues
- The players that feel the never can get enough space could now expand their banks forever.
- We would get a money sink that would get biigger and bigger helping manage one of the biggest problems in MMOs after they been out for a while.... INFLATION!
Completely agree. By purchasing extra bank space, I presume you mean with ingame coin right? =) Could be a 'one time purchase' or even maybe some sort of rent system. If you fail to pay the rent, you wouldnt be able to get to your stored items =)
DazL said:Koreno said:I do not like the idea of an unlimited bank size by default.
However, I have seen bank typically setup in one of 3 ways.
- Either like EQ and EQ2 where you have a set number of bank slots where you can but any sized bag you can get within that slot. The bigger the bags the bigger the bank.
- Like WoW where there was separate bank tabs you had to purchase.
- The other way I seen it is a single bank tab/bag that you could expand.
As I have said in many other threads, creating enough money sinks is one of the major challenges for developers. If you started with an unlimited sized bank you eliminate a big one. A lot of money is spent to craft all those bags people buy to put in all their alts banks. So my proposal is as such....
I propose we start with 2 bank tabs. a Personal tab and a Shared tab. Personal is for that specific character and the shared tab is for all characters on that account. Each tab starts with a limited number of spaces. However, each tab could be expanded via purchase. Each time you expand a tab, the cost of the next expansion grows. You could do this forever as long as you had the money for it.
This would solver 2 issues
- The players that feel the never can get enough space could now expand their banks forever.
- We would get a money sink that would get biigger and bigger helping manage one of the biggest problems in MMOs after they been out for a while.... INFLATION!
Completely agree. By purchasing extra bank space, I presume you mean with ingame coin right? =) Could be a 'one time purchase' or even maybe some sort of rent system. If you fail to pay the rent, you wouldnt be able to get to your stored items =)
I guess you could have a weekly fee to own a bank. And the fee would increase the larger your bank got. With no limit to the number of times you could expand your bank, the fee you have to pay could really get substantial. Another great money sink.
This would also make it harder to get super big banks and something to aspire to.
Koreno said:I propose we start with 2 bank tabs. a Personal tab and a Shared tab. Personal is for that specific character and the shared tab is for all characters on that account. Each tab starts with a limited number of spaces. However, each tab could be expanded via purchase. Each time you expand a tab, the cost of the next expansion grows. You could do this forever as long as you had the money for it.
This would solver 2 issues
- The players that feel the never can get enough space could now expand their banks forever.
- We would get a money sink that would get biigger and bigger helping manage one of the biggest problems in MMOs after they been out for a while.... INFLATION!
Koreno probably inferred this, but the shared tab should cost more than the personal tab. I like this approach.
To this day I have still not found any one game which has addressed bank/bag/keys and this is a major factor why I quit games Elder scrolls is a classic example they provide loads of dropped goodies but not enough space to put the dang stuff. All this bollocks of having to buy extra bag space for real money is a turn off for me and another reason I stopped playing other games. I get that we should not be able to carry 10,000 items everywhere but for the love of god please make a sensible up to date system for keys and bag/bank space.
This is a major reason why I have made full complement of additional character in the spare slots, not for me to play but to store **** in! I'm a crafter and I always need more space and i have even had to create second accounts some times so I can pass stuff from one account to the other. So I hope they did what they did in EQ and have shared bank slots to allow for sharing to use the space. I also hope they don't go down the none drop avenuse for basic items as I want to do as I please with my items weather that be give them away or melt them down these are things which should be in a modern game IMO...Rant over!!!
+1 For unlimited bank space. I enjoy holding onto unique items for various reasons. I have a lot of unique items in other games that are no longer available and are nice reminders of how long I have been playing and really cool to hold on to even if it has no use anymore. But the problem I found in other mmo's was there was limited bank space and I had to delete or throw away a lot of items that I would have loved to hold onto because I ran out of bank slots. I also hate having to make alts to hold onto things for me, it just gets annoying.
Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
If the city hates you - NO BANK FOR YOU!
City tolerates you? - 10 slots - NO BAGS
City thinks of you like this : Meh! - 10 slots - 1 bag slot
City thinks you're friendly - 15 slots - 2 bag slots
City ADORES you - 20 slots - 3 bag slots
City worships the ground you walk on - 20 slots - 4 bag slots
They should offer paid sub maybe 1.99/month more for increased banking.
Dhampir said:Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
If the city hates you - NO BANK FOR YOU!
City tolerates you? - 10 slots - NO BAGS
City thinks of you like this : Meh! - 10 slots - 1 bag slot
City thinks you're friendly - 15 slots - 2 bag slots
City ADORES you - 20 slots - 3 bag slots
City worships the ground you walk on - 20 slots - 4 bag slots
I like the idea of tying banking to faction. I think most things should be tied to faction, including all the merchants.
Beefcake said:Dhampir said:Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
I like the idea of tying banking to faction. I think most things should be tied to faction, including all the merchants.
Yes to both of these ideas.
No to paying rl money for exta banking slots. Or anything else (besides montly sub), for that matter.
Beefcake said:Dhampir said:Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
If the city hates you - NO BANK FOR YOU!
City tolerates you? - 10 slots - NO BAGS
City thinks of you like this : Meh! - 10 slots - 1 bag slot
City thinks you're friendly - 15 slots - 2 bag slots
City ADORES you - 20 slots - 3 bag slots
City worships the ground you walk on - 20 slots - 4 bag slots
I like the idea of tying banking to faction. I think most things should be tied to faction, including all the merchants.
Merchant pricing is usually faction locked, why not banking space (and perhaps monthly banking dues)?
I fully agree.
I dunno, I've never been a fan of "who has the most gold has the most perks". It's true to real life, though. But the idea of purchasing bank tabs at increasing prices but having an unlimited amount available seems like it could be bad in the long run. But I'm not toally sure.
Honestly, I'm against infinite bank space...but I'm not sure why. I'm a packrat in games, so it would certainly help me (limited bank space forces me to make interesting decisions sometimes about what I do and don't want to keep and shows me which things I really price and which I don't...but at the same time, it can be frustrating). And my opposition to unlimited bank spaces is mostly based on physical reality/immersion because in physical reality, nothing is TRULY infinite...
...and yet, the more I think about it, the less I have a good reason for NOT having unlimited space. In theory, a big enough bank building can store effectively an infinite amount (effectively) of stuff. I mean, you can fit a LOT of shoe boxes into the average house, a bank with huge underground vaults would be able to store all of what any one person would want to store. And especially with a system based on magic making looking up and retreiving items fairly simple as well.
So the more I think about it, while it seems "logical" at first glance to NOT have infinite bank space, and it seems like a thing that forces interesting choices on people...the reality is, this is ONE area where immersion actually dovetails with convenience: In real life, you can buy as many safety deposit boxes or self-storage lockers as you have the money to buy. Granted, in real life you're charged rent, not a one-time fee, but this effectively grants you infinite "bank space" in real life. So this is one area where real life/immersion/convenience actually makes sense...
...with the caveat that in real life/immersion sense, physical banks shouldn't have a shared vault across the entire gameworld.
...with the SECOND caveat that if there is a magic bank, that SHOULD have shared vault access across the entire gameworld, because teleportation is a thing in a world that has magic...
I dont want to pay upkeep for my bank slots, even in RL i deposit my money where i dont have to pay for it. (Keep it simple i dont need 15 trillion versions of money sinks in game especially not some who charge me while im offline or cant play for awhile)
Unlimited bank slots sounds like it would be abusable.... imagine 1 billion items in bank.....
But while where at it, an app to sort your accounts bank while at work or put some items on sale would be cool.
I’m not in favor of having heavy restrictions on banking space. Crafting alone is going to require a lot of space, and then there’s the extra slots needed to manage the various gear we will need for different adventuring situations. Compounding or even causing this problem is the small stacking limits “usually” placed arbitrarily on users. (not saying pantheon will go this route)
To many limitations on banking space means I wont gather or craft, and thats two thirds of the game for me. I’ll gladly buy more space to progress, I will not rent though. Aside from Server limitations lets not hinder banking.
Dhampir said:Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
If the city hates you - NO BANK FOR YOU!
City tolerates you? - 10 slots - NO BAGS
City thinks of you like this : Meh! - 10 slots - 1 bag slot
City thinks you're friendly - 15 slots - 2 bag slots
City ADORES you - 20 slots - 3 bag slots
City worships the ground you walk on - 20 slots - 4 bag slots
I like this Idea a lot...+1 from me!
While there is a wide gap between the camps who advocate 'unlimited spaces' and those for 'very few', I suspect that finding a 'middle road' is not necessaarily the answer.
However, when formulating my opinion I try (don't always succeed) to remember that the aim of these forums is to present the developers with ideas/opinions/options for how a given mechanic might work... perhaps what the downsides might be... hopefully present enough information for them to make a considered 'developement effort' vs 'game benefit' for this option!
1. General stuff
'Muh bank space is not enough!'
Well, I am all for a basic number of bank slots being offered by a banker for your use! Eg you get a letter from your class trainer to take to the bank giving you access to a basic 4-8 slots. How many slots may depend on many things, not least is FACTION with your trainer! The banker is paid to do business with you (as long as you meet a certain minimum faction) at the behest of your Class trainer (sponsor).
If I want more bank space, then i need to either :
get it myself (pay banker for added slots/upgrade - may need more banker faction)
OR
get my sponsor to make arrangements (need increased faction/kudos/reputation with Class trainer)
NOTE: Since banking is regional, I will have to make contact with Banker directly, or local Class trainer in order to get a bank opened at another regional city. This, again, requires a sponsor and a certain level of faction with either Class trainer or Banker/city-merchants.
2. Keys and important stuff
Small but important stuff that (probably) shouldn't be in your backpack slots!
Probably considered attached to belt. Perhaps 1 Belt holds 2-8 'pouch slots'.
Gem pouch : gemstones (eg spell components) 8-24 slots of stackeable gems
Herb pouch : herbies (for potions/alchemy) 12-48 slots
Rune pouch : runes for researching spells etc 12-48 slots
Scroll Case : holds scrolls/maps etc 8-24 slots
Key ring * : keys, 4-12 'slots' by key-size : Large (3 'slots'), Med (2 'slots'), Small (1 'slot')
Money Bag : holds your cash (perhaps can be pick-pocketed unlike backpack)
* Key ring may be placed round neck perhaps?
3. Crafting stuff
It occurred to me that while most games had you put your gear (including crafting stuff) in your bank, this was merely for the sake of convenience. More bank spaces were easy to code and didn't require any changes in GUI, apart from perhaps creating bank tabs.
My suggestion is that you can store stuff in your bank if you like (ineffiicient for the crafter) or you can rent space in whichever NPC Trader/Crafter Guild you get access/affiliation with. Getting acceptance from them may require some work (crafting) for them, faction gains and/or payment. This would get you access to their storage facilities. How many slots etc would depend on faction, cost etc. but it could be a large number, dependent on the Village, Town or City size.
Indeed, unlike the regional banks, goods kept in a warehouse could, possibly, be moved by NPC carters from trader warehouse to trader warehoue. This would not be instant, but take many in-game days to accomplish dependent on distance to be travelled etc. It also would presume you have made contact with the destination town and got access to a crafter/trader warehouse there in advance. Thus crafters woulod need to travel to far off places and work (by crafting, faction, or payments) to gain access to their warehousing if they everwant to be able to move stuff across the owrld - or even store materials locally without filling up what little bank space they had!
4. Clothing
Clothing Bundle : Cloth roll that allows storage of (only) clothing.
Tied to outside of backpack - may have weight reduction, but slower to 'wear' clothes inside
Small Bundle : holds 4-6 pieces of clothing
Medium Bundle : holds 6-12 pieces of clothing
Large Bundle : holds 8-16 pieces of clothing
Fashion victim Bundle : holds 12-24 pieces of clothing
5. Resources
Same principle as Clothing (see above), except the 'bundle' contains node gathered resources,
eg : Chopped Wood, Ore chunks, animal pelts, etc.
A given bundle could only hold one type of material. Ie: woods only, ores only etc
This leaves space in your bank for all those other important things adventurers collect on their voyage through the world!
Hopefully, from a development POV, the overheads are moderate. It requires bags to have restrictions by 'type' and the creation of 'bag slots' in the belt (for belt pouches) and back (for backpack and bundles). Since each of these can be increased/upgraded indipendently of each other, players can easily tailor their loadout to match their playstyle. Crafters, Magic researchers and exploring rangers would have wildly differing selections of slot usage. If these items (bags, bundles etc) are all craftable as well as dropped, this also increased the strength of crafting within the world.
I am in support of bigger storage options but like the idea of having to earn the space. Whether it is from crafting bags, quests, faction improvments, rare drops... Anything that enhances your storage capabilities is great. I am a packrat for sure and love to organize all of my stuff.
What I really want is an organized bank. If I could organize it myself, with custom labels!?! OMG!! So the bank would be tabbed and either trade items could go in one tab, or one tab per trade skill. I'd pay for more tabs and the ability to name them. For example, in Minecraft, I actually had rooms for certain things. Like cobblestone got is total own storage room cut into the ground with unlimited expansion potential. I'd love that, but maybe with tabs. I would pay to add a cobblestone tab. :p That way, when you get 900 stacks of something, you can pay to not have to search for 10 hours for the two stacks of food buried in there somewhere.
I don't want it tied to faction. Maybe on the RP server. Just because the world will be so vast, that just getting to a bank or vendor will be annoying enough. OR, conversely if travel is easy and fast, then no will bother and will just go "home" to bank anyway. Vendor pricing penalties are already enough. Being forced to sell wanted items at extreme low prices because you can't even store them is just overkill.
As far as infinite banking as a whole, I don't like it. I'm a hoarder, so you'd expect me to go the other way, I suppose.... but deciding what you're going to have to clean out is an important detail. Am I going exploring for food items, when I have too much wood working stuff? Is that a good idea?
In P1999, I just had to decide what to do with a whole bunch of foraged food...I decided to cook it up, which led to other important interactions. I made friends from it, got rid of most of it, and promptly ran out of food--oops!
If i had unlimited storage, I would have just put it all away and not had to make any crucial decisions. Each decision leads to another, leads to another.
Not to mention, the only way I'm likely in games to bother throwing anything it is if I have to. Total opposite in my real life, lol.
Like I said, I had endless rooms filled with cobble in Minecraft. I could have dumped it, but why? There was no motivation to do so... No strategy involved in inventory except building storage areas.
Inventory should be another area of strategic thinking.
Mod Edit: Consolidated double post as it is against forum guidelines.
I'm definitely for unlimited or nearly unlimited bank space. Obviously there needs to be a limit programmatically, but make it high enough that it's unrealistic that anyone would ever hit it within reason.
Also, give us a way to search for items in our bank easily. Having to remember where stuff is in your bank tabs can be annoying, so it would be nice if you could quickly search your bank by item name, slot, stats, quest items, etc.
Guess I'm the odd ball here. Unlimited bank space is great in theory but in reality it could easily become a nightmare for VR. Limiting bank space also forces us to make choices. Hell it's the whole reason I usually have 1-2 bank alts that simply sit at a bank to move things.
I am all for expensive bank space purchasing as a way to take money out of the economy but there has to be a limit.
As for sahred banking, yes please. Nothing more annoying than having to get someone to run over to you to transfer things to an alt. If no shared bank at least let us mail things to alts.
Sevens said:Dhampir said:Tie bank sizes to faction. And since we know banks aren't going to be world-wide and will be that if you have items in City 1 - City 2 is a completely different and empty bank.
If the city hates you - NO BANK FOR YOU!
City tolerates you? - 10 slots - NO BAGS
City thinks of you like this : Meh! - 10 slots - 1 bag slot
City thinks you're friendly - 15 slots - 2 bag slots
City ADORES you - 20 slots - 3 bag slots
City worships the ground you walk on - 20 slots - 4 bag slots
I like this Idea a lot...+1 from me!
Not a fan -1 for me
I like to be organized. I'll play an inventory management game all day. Mailing to alt's would be great idea. The idea though if we are going to need equipment pretty easily accessible to switch during different environements though an inventory would have to be somewhat sizeable, be it bank or bag. Unlimited though would take away from needing to be strategical in planning as well as from cooperative trading amongst crafter/adventurer.
Beefcake said:Let me buy in game bank space with in game currency. If I was an adventurer with money to throw around, how would that be any different then renting a storage unit/barn from some townie?
This is true but eventually those storage buildings would be rented out. Then what?
Unlimited storage to me means that there is no reason for me to ever sell anything really unless I just simply need money. I can bank all crafting mats, gear, weapons, hell everything because it just doesn't matter. I mean who knows when I'll need one of those things 2 years from now right? Limited space forces people to make choices. It forces an economy to be born. if everyone just becomes a hoarder then the economy will be pretty small.