Forums » General Guild Discussion

Guild Discussion

    • 206 posts
    May 23, 2016 11:28 AM PDT

    Amsai said:

    I like this thread, has a lot of solid ideas. I will say I am not really that concerned with the multiple Guilds thing, but thats probably to be understood as I come from a FFXI background. That being said I understand some of the issues that come up with that, so its not a make or break issue for sure. However, I would like some type of organized group thats more than a friends list but maybe less than a Guild. FFXI had Linkshells instead of guilds and the endgame community policed itself. So yes it was frowned on to have more than one endgame guild, but people usually had several social/other guilds. And very often endgame guilds had social counterpart guilds or "Orientation" type guilds where the Vets got to know the newbies a bit before that upgraded them to full member status. So I would love to have something like this.

     

    My primary reason is I dont want to join a social guild early on and later on want to do endgame activities and have to leave my guild because of a 1 guild rule. As Im sure many of you know, over a year or more, guild members can become very close, so I wouldnt want to ditch them just because I want epic adventure. You could fall in early on with a great group of people, only to discover later on that all they really want is more casual gaming or leveling Alts. And this is precisely what did happen to me in FFXI. I was with a guild for about 3 years and when I was ready to do endgame, no one else really wanted too (about 40 members). Luckily I didnt have to ditch them to do endgame. I just kept them as a social guild and joined an endgame guild that was recruiting. Eventually over time the endgame guild  also became my primary social guild too. But I never quit the other guild  and still would hang out with them and help with things from time to time as well.

     

    So either have a guild specify its purpose endgame, social, everything, etc. Or have the 1 Guild rule, but allow for smaller organizations like a Fellowship or Club.

    Before I played GW2 I would have said you must only be in one guild at a time. This was a rule that was taught to me by raiding guilds from EQ1. I had a similiar situation as Amsai in GW2 and eventually joined multiple guilds. I never ran into any negatives with the system and I do understand this was probably because when I played GW2 the game didn't really have any raiding in it at the time. I was in a casual guild of old guild members and a world vs world guild. When I was doing quest and 100% map completion I would have my casual guild tag up enjoying my time with my friends. When I wanted to fight in large scale battles I would swap my tag over to my other tag.

    I don't think Pantheon has a need for folks to be in multiple guilds but like others suggest channels could be created for folks to chat together in. Here is my idea when you create a channel you can view a small list like a friends list. The person who created the channel can manage who can enter/view the channel. I know you can do a /who "channel name" but this extra window/tab can be viewed and managed a lot easier. You could add lots of other features to the channel just like a friends list or guild window.

    • 1016 posts
    May 23, 2016 11:40 AM PDT

    Amsai said: @ Ox I hope I didnt give the idea that I dont want guilds to matter or that I dont like the idea of guild loyalty and guilds working together to common unified goals. Because I think its essential. However I still would like a way to be able to join groups or at least a group a little less seriously. Specifically for the reasons I cited before. I dont want to have to abandon people because my goals differ or change over time in game. Nor do I like the idea of being obligated to choose a group of folks based on their in game goals only. It makes it complicated issue to me. I could see how people coming over with a guild they have played with for years this would not be an issue though. Afterall you likely wouldnt be with them still if you didnt like them and your goals didnt line up. In the mean time Ill be lucky if I bring over my brother and 1 old guildie fron XI. I also plan to get heavy into endgame activities and raiding but possibly not on my first character. Because I might progeny to Bard so no point gettibg involved in endgame at that point. But that doesnt mean I dont want a home (read Guild). I dont want to be homeless but dont want to join the "wrong " guild. Thoughts

    I understand the need to be flexible but it has been my experience that this does not work very well.   From EVE to WoW I have been in guilds that tried to be open with this sort of path and it ended in major dramatic battles and in two cases complete guild collapse.  I think the concept would work with mature players and even that is a stretch with the one wild card being us as human beings.

    I am not saying it can’t be done it’s just not a method I support. That’s my 2 cp on that.

    I have been in very strong guilds that would not allow this in any way.   Loyalty was the main focus and part of the prestige of being that guild. It gave a sense of stability and support.

     

    I am one of those players that looks for a guild and will not join one if they are not the right fit. Hard to do and it takes patience these days. I can also see scenarios that people would want this. The new social concept is the norm now but some of us old school players won’t like it.   You are right on how complicated the guild issues can get. I used to think that online games were all like minded folks …back in 1999 but these days you have no idea who these people are and how you will mesh with them. I run with a small group these days due to that issue.

     

    In the end it is a game and we need to have fun or we don't or won't play.  Playing with others is why we play MMO's.

    Ox


    This post was edited by Oxillion at May 23, 2016 11:41 AM PDT
    • 2013 posts
    May 24, 2016 9:11 AM PDT
    @Ox

    I get why you are against multiple guilds. But does that also extend to a lesser group like I discussed before? Is there no room for something more than a friends list but less than a Guild with significantly less features? Like a very simplified and limited named private chat with ssy a 20 man limit?
    • 1016 posts
    May 25, 2016 12:58 PM PDT

    Amsai,

     

    I wonder if that could be like a fellowship or something along those lines?  I wonder if that could be done with a raid though?  Sorry not trying to squash your idea or playstyle in anyway.  I have to expand my way of thinking sometimes so that is why these discussions are fun to do. 

    I guess this opens a new line of thinking on how we group as players. Group is one thing being in a guild is another. Maybe and alliance feature could be put in here that does not affect your guild status. This way your still in a guild and you don’t have to be in multiple? Just throwing out ideas here.

    Ox

    • 2013 posts
    May 25, 2016 6:39 PM PDT

    Maybe make it where only groups or alliances that are in a specific guild or allianced guild can form large groups? Basically making something like fellowships only glorified private chat rooms with permissions. No prestiege, no guild housing, no banks, etc. I wouldnt want to take away from Guilds so maybe something like this. I believe Guilds shouldnt be intimidated by a lesser group structures though.

     

    The other alternative is people just making out-of-game voice chat groups (which will happen). At that point, whats the difference? I completely support guild loyalty, but I dont think we should, nor is it even possible to prevent betrayal such as through using voice chat. Like guild member from Guild A getting on teamspeak to let his buddy in Guild B know a raid target is up. It could happen with or without multiple guilds.

     

    I really would like something like a fellowship or club type status for hanging out with friends without the heavy commitment of a Guild. On the other hand, if that doesnt happen it wont make or break the game for me. But I will consider it to be a huge annoyance. I just dont get why my in game goals has to be the reason I want to be able to join a larger group structure. I mainly just want to be able to more easily socialize without the heavy commitment. When Im ready to make that commitment Ill join a Guild with a serious endgame focus. It would be that simple for me.

    • 92 posts
    July 2, 2016 10:51 AM PDT

    Reht said:

    I would rather have an [O] or [GL] preceding their name than have a different color

    My thoughts exactly. Much cleaner and less of a chance of confussion

    • 92 posts
    July 2, 2016 11:30 AM PDT

    #1 -  I agree with everything in the OP except for one. On the subject of an alliance system vs player created chat channels. Player created chat channels are great, but if you have an alliance chat channel created for 3 different guids, and a player gets booted from a guild, are they then denyed access to this player created chat channel? You would have to change the password to the channel and get that information to every member of each guilds that is a member of the alliance. With an alliance system that has a built in alliance chat channel, when a player leaves a guild they are automatically removed from the alliance as well and nothing more to do. Either way, alliances will be nothing more than an additional chat channel, but why make it more difficult to manage the access to it than it needs to be.

    Now if one of your concerns is another chat channel to create spam then I am sure it could be filtered just like any other game created chat channel.

    #2 - I did not see this mentioned anywhere. If it was, I am sorry I missed it. This thought is actually prefaced with a couple questions and will tie into #1 above.

    a)Guild size limit. Is there going to be one? If so how big?
    b)Will we have an account/family name?

    In many games, you join a guild, find out it's a great place for you, and you want to bring in your alts. But this in itself caan create future problems. If a player leaves or is removed from a guild, you have to locate all their alts and get them out too. For some guilds this is easy because they are very organized and have all the alts marked. For some its a little more difficult. This also helps if there is a guild size limit because the account/family would only count as ONE even is a player has 4 alts. If the answer to question "b" above is yes, then when a player is invited to a guild their entire account/family is invited. No need to ask "Hey can someone invite my alt?" This also solves the issue of missing someones alts when they get removed from a guild.

    The way this ties into #1 is that when a family is removed from a guild, BAM! They are removed from the alliance and no possibly forgotten alt becoming a spy.

    Now I know someone is going to say that they like the freedom of being able to join one guild with one character for one purpose, and join another guild with an alt for something else, Maybe something like rollplaying, casual play, or raiding. Also, sometimes people want to play, but they dont want to be bothered. This is just something else to consider.

    Well, This is my thoughts. Let me know what you think.

     

    • 201 posts
    July 3, 2016 8:31 PM PDT

    I hope that there is a minimum number of characters required to create a guild and you need to gather those members and speak to someone to create it. 

    • 406 posts
    July 12, 2016 4:46 AM PDT

    Something potentially missing:
    A seperate "Founder's Guild" (as in the Adviser's upwards Pledge reward) tab/switch or will that be a seperate menu/thing? I don't know. *shrugs*

    • 309 posts
    July 14, 2016 12:28 PM PDT

    I know they said before that they will not be allowing mutilple guilds (except on different characters). The Founders Guild would be something special setup specifically for founders but it would be unique and not avaiable as a multi-guilding tool for anyone else.

    • 132 posts
    August 14, 2016 7:37 PM PDT
    What is the consensus for guild tithes? I know in Rift we could set it up so you were given extra coin on mobs and then it was given to the guild bank to provide for repairs etc.

    I was a guild leader in EQ2 and EQ as well. We had a tribute system there that would be good possibly also...would be a good plat sink.

    Also, thinking about it...perhaps a portion of the cash recieved from things sold to a certain merchant could be used to fund a repair fund or guild upkeep fee. Have the $ recieved kept track in the guild bank window and only viewed by leaders, and then they can keep track of who has paid into the fund.

    Just a few thoughts!
    • 132 posts
    August 14, 2016 7:43 PM PDT
    Oh, one other thing. I would love to be able to do guild invites when people are offline. In Rift, you can send a guild invite at any time, and if that person was offline, it would go to their mailbox and they could accept the invite when the logged back online.

    Another thing? In EQ we only needed one person to start a guild. Many people do this just to have additional bank slots, especially craters.

    Should we do something like this in Pantheon or stick with the 6 persons online deal?
    • 174 posts
    August 15, 2016 10:57 AM PDT

    Keep it simple no achievement system, buffs or any of that non sense, just basic tools like Kilsin posted.

    Your guild trophies are what your members are wearing, no guild crafting stations, merchants, banking, portals etc.. these activities should stay in the starting cities.

    I'm agaisnt anything that takes players out of the general population. I want a massively multiplayer online game where you can have interactions with everyone, not just guild members.


    This post was edited by Obliquity at August 15, 2016 11:03 AM PDT
    • 2013 posts
    August 18, 2016 7:18 AM PDT
    Rather than colored names or G by the name I'd rather it be guild emblems on gear if shown and if not you have to examine the person to see guild affiliation or title. I really don't want a bunch of clutter over people's heads either way.
    • 28 posts
    August 19, 2016 12:03 PM PDT

    Haseno said:

    Multiple guilds was horrible. I despised it in Elder Scrolls Online. So much in-fact, it was one of my main reasons for leaving.

    • 11 posts
    August 23, 2016 2:44 PM PDT

    One thing I would really like, as a guild leader on Vanguard, is the ability to link up people's alts.  I was an alt whore, my guild had lots of alt whores. We even had a "Filthy alt" rank for them.  But it would be nice if there was some way we could flag them as belonging to a main, just for easy mantainance. This would really come in handy for officers and leaders. (This might come in handy for Raid/DKP too if people base it on the player and not the character).

    As an artist, I would love it if we could upload a guild emblem, even if it's a simple two color gif of a single color logo and a single color background (or transparent alpha layer).  I know, quality control would be needed because people will upload dicks. But I still think it would be neat to have your symbol on a flag in your guild hall, or maybe even wear it into battle.

    Lastly, about multiple Guild Leaders, I do like the idea of having more than one leader, we did this in my guild too.  But I feel like the original leader should still be above the regularly appointed leaders. Call it the Guild Founder if you will.  They're the only people will the power to demote a Guild Leader.  And they, themselves, cannot be demoted by others.  Guild Leaders would still have powers above all the functions of the guild. Just wanted to put that out there.


    This post was edited by Jakkal at August 23, 2016 2:44 PM PDT
    • 132 posts
    August 25, 2016 4:00 PM PDT
    I like the idea of a founder rank as mentioned above. Makes sense!
    • 1012 posts
    September 1, 2016 9:17 PM PDT

    Searched for an hour to find this thread... (there's no search capability with this phone.) And then only read the first 2 pages of the thread before I posted.

    Editing this message to save future people wasting time reading a repeat of whats already being discussed.

    sorry all rookie move!

     


    This post was edited by Zorkon at September 7, 2016 10:36 PM PDT
    • 14 posts
    September 3, 2016 1:58 PM PDT

    Amsai said: @Ox I get why you are against multiple guilds. But does that also extend to a lesser group like I discussed before? Is there no room for something more than a friends list but less than a Guild with significantly less features? Like a very simplified and limited named private chat with ssy a 20 man limit?

    Amsai (and Ox),

    This less-than-a-guild, more-than-a-chat-channel thing you describe is exactly what linkshells are in FF14 (where more formal guilds, only one of which you can join, also exist).

    • 31 posts
    September 4, 2016 1:14 PM PDT

    Do we know  yet what the guild cap for member size might be ingame for the guild system? The most recent game I played in was BDO and the hard cap was 100 players and my guild had close to 400, so we had to spread out across 4 ingame guilds...huge PITA!

    • 1541 posts
    September 8, 2016 9:46 AM PDT

    Sidly said:

    Do we know  yet what the guild cap for member size might be ingame for the guild system? The most recent game I played in was BDO and the hard cap was 100 players and my guild had close to 400, so we had to spread out across 4 ingame guilds...huge PITA!

    Hopefully there won't be a limit on the number of members in a guild. Say you have 50 members and each member has 2 alts that is 150 members and it would already take you over the 100 character limit. Guilds can quite easily end up with hundreds of members especially if some of them are on a break from the game and come back while you have recruited more members to replace them.

    • 31 posts
    September 8, 2016 10:37 AM PDT

    Yup, I really hope that it is something the devs take into account when building the guild system.

    • 96 posts
    September 9, 2016 8:52 AM PDT

    In EQ, I had a guild and also a regular group of friends that I loved to adventure with once or twice a week. I had a couple of people who I would have fun as a duo with, too. EQ had the means to create/join a relatively private channel for chatting. That was enough to keep our group together. If someone didn't join the channel, then they wanted to be left alone or at least, not distracted while they did something with their guild or other friends. I'd like to see the ability to create a chat channel like that and not have it go away every time you log off.

    Some guilds do not use DKPs to track who gets to loot. In fact, I despise the whole looting system of EQ for creating a situation where a group of 60 people spend five hours mashing buttons, only to fight over 5 useful items which may or may not work for your class at all. Add to that the human factor and raiding seems rather anti-social after the bad guy is dead. If we were to change that; to change looting to something more worthwhile; I believe that we would have much fewer bottlenecks in the system.

    Bottlenecks, such as random loot tables and singular drops are what makes things like raids "Mandatory" and fosters enmity between people when they feel that their time should be rewarded when they did a great job. This is why I feel that Rift had a genius idea in awarding DKPs in the form of currency to go purchase amazing gear from vendors. When you take away the ability of a few or even one person to dictate who gets what, then it makes everyone feel that they earned something. Participation currency or Dragon Kill Coins (DKC) are awarded by the game, based on your participation level. Guild Wars 2 had something close to this in the form of the XP bonus award, which was based on how well or how much you participated.

    I want to earn DKCs and, if I play well enough, perhaps see a random drop thrown into my award window on top of that. Quest items should be rewarded to everyone that doesn't already have one or who has already completed the non-repeatable quest.

    When a list of the drops was revealed by the guild leader (who was always the master looter), I jumped for joy when something I could use popped up. That's the thrill people love about raiding. However, despite being a raider who showed up to every call, I was passed over for great items almost every time. When we started using DKPs, I earned lots of them and did my job very well. Still, I never seemed to have the DKPs to win an item. I even saw the loaning of DKPs among friends to characters of my class who were alts of the higher ranked guild members! They did this to outbid me, when I was already spending too many DKPs to finally get something of worth. Human nature is a bear and it will bite you on the rear when limited resources are involved.

    Now you may say that I should have joined a better guild and you are right. However, I was a regular member by this point, having spent years building friendships and earning a name for myself. To join another guild would feel like betraying all those who weren't in the elitist clique. I was rather vocal and probably came off as a *****, but I still would never leave my friends, choosing instead to forget about looting. It was depressing.

    So when I joined The Old timers Guild, it was because they don't put up with drama. It was because they aren't full of themselves and willing to step on others to show favoritism to a select few. Will they use the DKP system? If they have to, I suppose they will, but I think it would fit our guild better and the game better to have DKCs instead of DKPs. Maybe I'll learn to like the end of raids again as well.

    • 23 posts
    September 10, 2016 7:53 AM PDT

    I alos hope that there is no cap to guild size, or if there is it is way up there like 500. What would also be nice is if they went the BDO route and had alts automatically entered into the guild. I know some people would like to keep an alt or 3 out just to do their own thing with, so maybe add a check box saying you don't want that alt in the guild. It wll also make guild clean-up easier; boot the main and the alts go with it, no more wondering if you got all of them out or accidentally booting the wrong guy.

     

    As for raid loots I feel like Suicide Kings is one of the easiest and best methods to use; basically you set up a list of the people raiding (can be divided how ever you wish); for the initial list i did in Archeage we all just did a /random and list was populated from highest to lowest, if a new member joined they was added to the bottom. As good loot dropped person at the top had the choice to take it or pass; if they took they went to bottom of list, if they passed it went to next; and so on until someone took it or it became vendor trash handed out by /random. Alternates could be rewarded for at least showing up ready to go by moving up the list even if they were not actively participating in the raid, so when they did get to raid they at least felt like they were rewarded for beign ready and on call. You can also punish someone that is consinently late or not ready for the raid by moving them down the list (never had to do that, but the option was there). There are actually a few good websites that makes keeping track of it all very easy, and quick. 

     

    Another thing I like from BDO that I wouldn't mind seeing in Pantheon (and other MMOs at that) is that if the Guild Leader goes MIA for a time period (BDO has it set to 5 days) then the officers can remove them as Leader and appoint a new one. That way the guild can continue on without having to reform or try to get the GMs to switch it around.

     

     

    • 12 posts
    September 13, 2016 3:56 PM PDT

    I will add my grain of sand with my experience as Guild Leader (I can say for decades... omg we are geting really old) of what Guild options we should have/avoid:

     

    Multiple Guilds:

    • I have suffered this before, if we are making a social game, then we are making a game where compromise means something. Please NO.

     

     

     

    Guild Ranks:

    • Options to create/delete/rename/move ranks.
    • Options for almost every action (even writing and/or reading chat + speaking in the integrated voice system) I remember we had a rank called "Jail" where nobody could participate in chat, it did wonders to end fights or take them to private.

     

     

     

    Guild Chat:

    • Color the nick for different ranks. Maybe we would want different levels of officers. Let it be a scale based on Guild leader chosen color. For example, everyones name is green in guildchat, Guild leader choses Black, then the leader is black and different officers are dark grey, grey, light grey. Blue would be Dark blue, blue, pale blue, etc... This can also be fixed, not guild leader choice, but more than 2 colors for leader + officers would be great.
    • Message Of The Day. This is important, could also prompt when you log in (maybe leader/officers decission to toggle on just for special events)
    • Announce of dings, or accomplishents by other guild members (toggle). Helps shy/new members to integrate by guildmates encouraging or giving "Grats bro" =P. Also makes people feel proud of their mates.
    • Temporary invites to non guild chars into guild chat. Really helps for applicants to get the feeling of the guild they are applying, very welcoming experience. Also helps when inviting a group of people to guild event. I know all this can be done creating new chat channels, but players feel "at home" in their guild chats.
    • Guild Bot: Let me explain before you ban me =P. Is just a way to get deeper in inmmersion. When the guild itself send information to you. Instead of SYSTEM or NOBODY, this bot (is just a name) will do it. If my guild is: Destroyers, and i am leader, i rename "Guild Bot" to "Destroyers Herald". It can tell members thisgs as the MoTD and more than that. IE Now when Kilsin levels up everyone gets: Destroyers Herald: Its my pleasure to inform you that our (GuildRank) (Name) has reached (level). In example: Destroyers Herald: Its my pleasure to inform you that our Recruit Kilsin has reached Level 8! It could also have different speeches for the same event, Maybe next time he will say: Destroyers Herald: Hey (your name), have you heard that our (rank) (name) has hit (level)?. It could also announce other things like epic quests, difficult or hidden skills achieved, important lore quests or factions, etc... All this options should have a toggle to let decide officers and leader how much info the bot shares with players. He may also do it publicly(guildchat), sending whispers or mixing both styles randomly (toggled by officers again). When something really important is achieved by the guild or its members, this bot could also share it in zones where guild members are so everybody knows how competent the guild of your groupmate is. Of course public info should be game regulated (maybe just for very important achievements) and the guildbot name should be policy restricted.

     

     

     

    Guild Raid: Here i am gonna comment toold who will save 80% of the time that destroys officers/leaders social life.

    • Buttons for various records. IE Raid puntuality, some guild add some extra DKP to everyone who is in place at an specific time. If raid leader (Or anyone he gives permission) pushes [In time Check] button and game records who i in the same zone than the one who did the check, and auto adds the DKP. That saves a lot of work to raid leaders, officers, etc...
    • Button for Raid Start, Raid Checkpoint, Raid End. Some DKP systems, in order to be fair, doesnt just give points by killing bosses but for being a certain amount of time. Let the leader configure how much DKP are awarded for every check to all players in raid. It can tipically be, 0 for raid Start, 5 for raid checkpoint and 5 for raid end with 10 extra for players that had been in the raid in every check. This is very important because sometimes guilds give DKP for other events that dont involve killing bosses.
    • Button for Single raid dkp gain. Window with: Reason and points. IE Reason: Killing Tunare 1st attempt Points:10
    • Raid Stash in raid window: An option of every single coin, item, harvesting goodies, etc... that mob drops directly go to raid stash. You dont have to stop the action and the Rythm of the events if is no needed. Everything goes there and, in any moment during or after raid, raid leader decides if shares money and loot, gives them to a certain player/s, or maybe stablish a DKP/money bid/sell on certain items. Make toggle if people can look whats in raid stash anytime or not.
    • Recommended DKP: It doesnt have to make you crush your brains, as developers i am sure you have an internal level number for items, based on stats, race/class usage etc... just add that number as recomended dkp. That will help us to decide how valuable is everything and im sure most guilds will adapt their point system to those values. If guild decides for example that weapons should cost less, is as simple as, when the prompts asks: Are you sure you want to give [Fiery Avenger] to Aradune for (548) DKP? you simply can click on the number, write the new value (272) and hit yes. The Guild DKP should instantly reflect the loss of 272 DKP by Aradune by acquisition of his new Sword.

     

     

     

    Guild Library:

    • Just some part of UI where different posts (tomes) can be added by officers, i know most if this can be just done in guild forum at website, but could be nice to add many things like guild rules, guild fiction, guild statements, etc... into the actual game.

     

     

     

    Guild Notes on character profile:

    • Something i always loved of EQ was the idea of writting a bit about you that people could see when tehy inspect you. Id love to see it implemented in pantheon, but i also would like that each rank of the guild (or at least the guild itself) could have a small amount of that space. IE: "Kilsin is also a proud recruit of Destroyers. This player is applying to join our ranks, if you have a positive or negative experience with him please let us know!" or Aradune is the Guild Leader of "Truth is Good", his legendary achievements... etc. Maybe just a "RECRUITING IS OVER ATM"

     

     

    And for now this is what i have to say, the rest have been told or confirmed that will be implemented. Tomorrow i'll post more insight about a different topic =P


    This post was edited by OldTony at September 13, 2016 4:00 PM PDT