Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

The Ideal Guild System

    • 9115 posts
    March 10, 2015 7:46 AM PDT
    Sevens said:
    Kilsin said:
    Rivacom said:

    I know lots of players will vote againest this.  But I am a big fan of Guild Housing.  The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed.  But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities.  I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.

     

    Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.  

    Guild Halls in Vanguard were something to be proud of, they took insane amounts of resources and crafting just to make let alone decorate and they cost 20-30 plat for a plot, so that was very hard to come by unless people cheated and duped like most towards the end of the game.

    If we do housing in Pantheon, I would love to see a similar Guild Hall system to VG's :)

    To be honest I am against a guild hall system unless done VERY carefully so as not to impact the cities

    In EQ2 Qeynos and Freeport were bustling cities till the guild halls went in then they were ghost towns

    You could do everything, and I mean everything in a guild hall...buy, sell, broker, craft, travel....they even had gatherers that would go out and gather resources for the guild so you always had items on hand (except rares) to craft with. Each guild became its own insulated little community and there was not alot left to do in the cities

    I did not experience that as I only ever tried EQ 2 via a free trial while VG was down for maintenance one time, I only have experience in the VG Guild Hall system which had none of that mate, just a huge Guild Hall that we could decorate and place a few big storage chests with permissions set by the guild leaders and it was a recall point but usually out in a big housing area or an island away from major cities.

    There was sometimes public crafting stations around the same area with a mailbox and two Npcs (usually, not always) that had bank options and housing merchant to buy some housing items, nothing much though, the bulk was crafted by players.

    I would never want a Guild Hall or House to take away from the cities or towns at all, I see them as storage and recall area's that you can have fun and decorate to show friends, no gatherers or anything game breaking, with a game like Pantheon it is very important we don't take anything away from the gameplay or original experience as that is intended to be very player interactive and emergent.

    • 50 posts
    March 10, 2015 10:02 AM PDT
    Kilsin said:
    Sevens said:
    Kilsin said:
    Rivacom said:

    I know lots of players will vote againest this.  But I am a big fan of Guild Housing.  The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed.  But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities.  I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.

     

    Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.  

    Guild Halls in Vanguard were something to be proud of, they took insane amounts of resources and crafting just to make let alone decorate and they cost 20-30 plat for a plot, so that was very hard to come by unless people cheated and duped like most towards the end of the game.

    If we do housing in Pantheon, I would love to see a similar Guild Hall system to VG's :)

    To be honest I am against a guild hall system unless done VERY carefully so as not to impact the cities

    In EQ2 Qeynos and Freeport were bustling cities till the guild halls went in then they were ghost towns

    You could do everything, and I mean everything in a guild hall...buy, sell, broker, craft, travel....they even had gatherers that would go out and gather resources for the guild so you always had items on hand (except rares) to craft with. Each guild became its own insulated little community and there was not alot left to do in the cities

    I did not experience that as I only ever tried EQ 2 via a free trial while VG was down for maintenance one time, I only have experience in the VG Guild Hall system which had none of that mate, just a huge Guild Hall that we could decorate and place a few big storage chests with permissions set by the guild leaders and it was a recall point but usually out in a big housing area or an island away from major cities.

    There was sometimes public crafting stations around the same area with a mailbox and two Npcs (usually, not always) that had bank options and housing merchant to buy some housing items, nothing much though, the bulk was crafted by players.

    I would never want a Guild Hall or House to take away from the cities or towns at all, I see them as storage and recall area's that you can have fun and decorate to show friends, no gatherers or anything game breaking, with a game like Pantheon it is very important we don't take anything away from the gameplay or original experience as that is intended to be very player interactive and emergent.

    I have to say after playing nearly every mmo to come to market that some of the most enjoyable aspects of games can be a properly done guild housing system.  Player housing can be a mess, but if done right guild housing can actually add to a game.  One way I would suggest in getting around the isolation factor of guild houses is simply to make them a limited number of plots within established cities that can establish a guild house.  Then put a system that requires a guild holds a particular progression or rank on the server to be able to even possess the lot.  They don't have to be abnormally huge, but rather simply a place to hang trophies.  I wouldn't put crafting stations or anything that makes a player leave the public areas, but a guild stash may be something worthwhile.  

     

    If you design each city to have say 5 plots and with a total of 45 plots in the game it could be viable?  It would mean that guild would have to earn and maintain status to keep the plot while also making guild houses a rarity and treasured.  This is a much better way than simply letting every guild have their own guild hall because it establishes worth to them and removes the need to have them instanced.  It also removes the need to have a plotting system because they would be at established locations.

    • 48 posts
    March 11, 2015 12:54 PM PDT
    Sarim said:

    There's one point in that list that I hope NOT to see in Pantheon, and that is "Member log on alert". I don't want my online presence to be announced...if I feel like it, I will just say "hi" in guild chat.

     

    Another idea, since there was talk of a guild API (for roster etc). Maybe you can add a button in the guild window "Export", which will export the roster in XML (or some other text format).

     

    The way EQ2 did it was you could select if you wanted your log on announced in guild chat it was a simple toggle in the UI. That was you could still lurk if you wanted to.

    • 201 posts
    March 12, 2015 5:49 AM PDT
    DJay said:
    Kilsin said:
    Sevens said:
    Kilsin said:
    Rivacom said:

    I know lots of players will vote againest this.  But I am a big fan of Guild Housing.  The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed.  But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities.  I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.

     

    Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.  

    Guild Halls in Vanguard were something to be proud of, they took insane amounts of resources and crafting just to make let alone decorate and they cost 20-30 plat for a plot, so that was very hard to come by unless people cheated and duped like most towards the end of the game.

    If we do housing in Pantheon, I would love to see a similar Guild Hall system to VG's :)

    To be honest I am against a guild hall system unless done VERY carefully so as not to impact the cities

    In EQ2 Qeynos and Freeport were bustling cities till the guild halls went in then they were ghost towns

    You could do everything, and I mean everything in a guild hall...buy, sell, broker, craft, travel....they even had gatherers that would go out and gather resources for the guild so you always had items on hand (except rares) to craft with. Each guild became its own insulated little community and there was not alot left to do in the cities

    I did not experience that as I only ever tried EQ 2 via a free trial while VG was down for maintenance one time, I only have experience in the VG Guild Hall system which had none of that mate, just a huge Guild Hall that we could decorate and place a few big storage chests with permissions set by the guild leaders and it was a recall point but usually out in a big housing area or an island away from major cities.

    There was sometimes public crafting stations around the same area with a mailbox and two Npcs (usually, not always) that had bank options and housing merchant to buy some housing items, nothing much though, the bulk was crafted by players.

    I would never want a Guild Hall or House to take away from the cities or towns at all, I see them as storage and recall area's that you can have fun and decorate to show friends, no gatherers or anything game breaking, with a game like Pantheon it is very important we don't take anything away from the gameplay or original experience as that is intended to be very player interactive and emergent.

    I have to say after playing nearly every mmo to come to market that some of the most enjoyable aspects of games can be a properly done guild housing system.  Player housing can be a mess, but if done right guild housing can actually add to a game.  One way I would suggest in getting around the isolation factor of guild houses is simply to make them a limited number of plots within established cities that can establish a guild house.  Then put a system that requires a guild holds a particular progression or rank on the server to be able to even possess the lot.  They don't have to be abnormally huge, but rather simply a place to hang trophies.  I wouldn't put crafting stations or anything that makes a player leave the public areas, but a guild stash may be something worthwhile.  

     

    If you design each city to have say 5 plots and with a total of 45 plots in the game it could be viable?  It would mean that guild would have to earn and maintain status to keep the plot while also making guild houses a rarity and treasured.  This is a much better way than simply letting every guild have their own guild hall because it establishes worth to them and removes the need to have them instanced.  It also removes the need to have a plotting system because they would be at established locations.

    I think i stated it in the first post but the whole system has to only benefit cities.  So if freeport is the main city, make the guild houses in the heart of the main city.  Make prime real estate cost more, and make some cheaper houses outside the main areas of the city.  That way players are still in or around it.  To keep the guild halls active, keep a pretty decent upkeep on it based on size etc.  And auto delete any guilds that are inactive or deleted.  Or maybe have a auction system for vacant halls.

    • 9115 posts
    March 14, 2022 4:45 AM PDT

    This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the necro'd discussion and have fun! :)

    Community Opinion - The Ideal Guild System - [Necro Thread] Join in on this community-created post from 2015 and let us know what the Ideal Guild System would be for you in Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen. https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1780/the-ideal-guild-system/view/page/1 #MMORPG #CommunityMatters #Guilds

    • 3852 posts
    March 14, 2022 8:20 AM PDT

    Where Kilsin wants comments it is wise to oblige. It means there is a high probability that the developers are actively considering what to do, or expect to be doing so within less time than the half-life of the universe - and will actually consider our suggestions and opinions. What more could we ask for?

    1. Critical is a good system for new players to see what guilds are out there and learn something about them. Beneficial side-effect - this reduces looking for new members/looking for guild spam in chat channels. EQ2 has the best system I have seen though it is far from perfect. Ideal might be a system allowing a player to call up a list of guilds where he or she can filter what appears and where information is given about each guild shown. Either information from the game (average number of members on over the last month for example) or information the guild chooses to provide (primary timezone, preferred playstyle, general chat mostly typed or voice and the like). By filter I mean the player might only ask to see guilds of certain sizes or where guild management has input certain information into a guild recruiting page e.g. desired size, whether or not roleplaying, time zone, type of chat or many other things.

    2. Debatable is whether a guild should give "buffs". I would say the right answer is in the middle. As usual. Nothing nearly as extreme as SWTOR which encourages players that have no desire to participate in a guild to join one anyway and then contribute nothing and never even talk in guild chat. It is demoralizing to see 20 guildmates on and 19 of them totally ignore anything you say or do. But a minor benefit to encourage people to give it a try would be beneficial. Cosmetics sell - maybe the ability to wear a special guild cosmetic item like the WoW tabard I remember from many years ago. Maybe even something useful but not gamebreaking. Like a 1% bonus to cash drops. I use this to illustrate what I have in mind as slightly useful there are many possibilities.

    3. Debatable whether there should be incentives for guilds to "gain levels" or otherwise accomplish things. I say "yes" as an inducement for guildmates to participate in guild activities. Thus guild "levels" should be based on accomplishment not simply longevity as in LOTRO. Guild "levels" can be tied to crafting and adventuring and exsploring or other in-game activities.  I would greatly prefer this to be done in a way where size doesn't equate to level. Let us not push people into the large mega-guilds. That will happen enough as it is. So if a guild level is helped by members earning experience in the name of all the Gods make it average xp per member not aggregate xp. And maybe have this kick in only after a guild reaches a certain size so 5 ambitious guild founders can't boost guild levels unrealistically.

    4. What can a guild be given as a reward? Increased use of guild functions such as guild chat or message-of-the-day or guild mail, as in LOTRO. No - all guilds should be able to function. Ability to build or buy a larger guild house if such is in the game? Maybe. Wider choice of cosmetic guild appearances? Maybe. Increased useful buffs for members? 1% faster runspeed or 1% bonus xp or 2% bonus cash instead of a starter 1%? Maybe.


    This post was edited by dorotea at March 14, 2022 8:21 AM PDT
    • 416 posts
    March 14, 2022 1:39 PM PDT

    I do hope there is a good guild LFG tool that allows guilds to post if they are looking for members and what they are about, which players then can use to find a good match.

     

    I also really hope that there are no guild levels or guild buffs, no game mechanics that give added advantages to being part of a guild. Being part of a guild already comes with the advantage of being a part of that community, no other incentive is needed.

     

    That said, I think it would be cool if guilds could create cosmetic items to represent themselves. For example, crafters could make tabards, armor, or shields with a guild's crest on them. Maybe this is where a guild's faction with a particular city or area could come in. If the guild's faction is high enough, they could register fancier or more elaborate crests that then could be crafted.

    • 256 posts
    March 14, 2022 3:07 PM PDT

    I don't want a guild system where people feel like they have to be a part of one to gain access to certain required perks or features. That being said, I would love to see a guild system that rewards members for interacting with other members of their guild.

    Most games have switched the focus off of group base gameplay for the majority of their content. This switch has led to a change in player mentality, and I honestly believe this change has caused guilds to suffer. I've been in a number of guilds that are dead quiet with 100 members online. I have seen players come in expecting carries through raids and leave the minute the guild hits progression content. I've seen some of those same players join a different guild two days later, only to repeat the same process with that guild. 

    I would like to see a system that incentivizes players to stay and work with their guilds. I don't think anyone should feel forced to stay with their guild if they decide they really want to leave. However, I also think that choosing to join or leave a guild should at least be a choice that holds some weight. 

    • 454 posts
    March 14, 2022 3:42 PM PDT

    Grand thread.

    Id like to see a guild hall be a physical building where land must be bought in every city you want to have a guild hall. Thus your guild should aspire to owning multiple guild halls.  A guild hall in Thronefast, and a guild hall in Faerthale. No fast travel from the guild hall in Thronefast to the guild hall in Faerthale.

    No guild buffs.

    No guild levels.

    No craftings stations in guild halls, I do like a guild bank.

    Nothing to usurp the need to go to towns.

    A guild should have:

    what time zone/country it's in. (Excellent idea!)

    Guild ranks

    Guild chat.

    Guild membership chart, by rank, class, craft ability, and name.  So four lists.

    MOTD

    Guild wide mail

    Guild calender

    Guild LFMembers chat channel

    Guild tabard or Cape symbol

    The ability to display trophies of guild kills.  Example the head of Marg the impaler, L25 Orc Boss, saying when it was killed.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • 888 posts
    March 14, 2022 4:22 PM PDT

    If guilds offer in-game advantages, consider a NPC guild that players can join. These would offer the same basic perks as player guilds, but are for people who aren't interested in joining a real guild. There would be no guild chat, so it's not intended to feel like a real guild. This could then allow guilds to offer better advantages without everyone feeling forced to join one. 

     

    Guilds should have halls / businesses,  but most of the building (all services like crafting) should be open so others can see the people inside.  This keeps the cities feeling more populated.  Even better  is if there are a few locations where all the guild halls are near each other,  kind of like a giant bazaar.

    • 752 posts
    March 17, 2022 10:16 AM PDT

    Guild tools should be there to help organize and communicate. I don't see a reason to provide "extra" benefits over not having a guild. If a guild wants to show off thier status by spending money then lets let them. But why should i have to join a guild to gain the special benefits - Unless there is a solo player version. Yes, guilds are important and i want to see all the cool tools, but lets not try to force people into guilds just for the sake of gaining a stat. 

    • 143 posts
    March 18, 2022 12:31 PM PDT

    At first I was super excited thinking about guild group missions and perks. Then I read Kilsin's post about keeping guilds as simple as possible, and thought back to my most memorable guild experience. 

    We were a fairly small guild. There were no bonuses or perks for being with them aside from getting to play with people I looked forward to gaming with every day. The guild was about the players in it and nothing else. Even people who quit the game would continue to banter with us through the game's forums (and maybe help trash talk in good fun). We had alliances and kill on sight guilds. 

    For me in those days, the most important thing was my pride in that guild tag over my head because of the group it represented. All the extras added to modern guilds create systems that heavily benefit large or rich groups. Let's make it equally beneficial to be a part of the smaller more socially focused guilds again. Or at least let's stop making it detrimental to players who prefer that environment. 

    I miss you, RotSB. 

    • 15 posts
    March 19, 2022 10:31 PM PDT

    The Guild Hall should just simply be the same building for everyone (in the outside) where you just zone to an instance which reflects your actual Guild Hall, no ghost towns that way

    • 161 posts
    March 20, 2022 12:10 AM PDT
    As regards Guilds, I definitely look forward to building a Guild, whether as an Officer or not. Of all the things I miss from EverQuest are my Guild and Guildmates.

    I strongly agree with Kilsin, especially their paste from pjpantheon. If anything, err on the side of simplicity. Perhaps some tools, like a calendar, are best handled out of game. Perhaps VR could support a website that hosts out of game functions, like guild calendars and forums.

    As much as I enjoyed it back in the day, I hope there is never anything like the Plane of Knowledge, with travel to and from almost trivial, and faction trivialized. At best, I can imagine, long after launch, the creation of a central neutral city, as the result of a long, player driven storyline, and such a city could support guild houses and the like. In the short or medium term, I could imagine something like a post office in every major city with guild boxes that operates something like a guild bank with some other minor services available.

    But I am not very interested in Guild Halls and the like, and don't see how they are compatible with travel in Terminus.

    I also have little interest in Guild Buffs, except possibly some reduction of downtime and sharing of adaptations to environments. I do not want to see Guild Levels. I am not interested in Guild Achievements, except possibly for access to Raids.

    I am interested in the idea of Fellowships, smaller, simpler proto-guilds, easier to create and manage, and which can eventually graduate into a real Guild. A stepping stone. I would not want to see Guilds as composed of multiple Fellowships.

    I also like the idea of formal Alliances of Guilds. Maybe the tools for resolving conflicts over Raids and the like could be at that level. Perhaps if there were to be Guild Halls with a Hall of Heroes and the like, it could be at the Alliance Level. I can imagine very simple tools to allow Guilds to join an Alliance, communicate among members, and a voting council of guild leaders, and see what emerges.


    • 303 posts
    March 20, 2022 3:11 AM PDT

    I want the guild interface to have somewhere that allows for clickable hotlinks so you can easily get to the guild's discord/website/whatever without having to type it.

    A calendar would be super nice too! Maybe a guild bank? Although I never had any issues with the bank being on one of the officers' alt characters I know there have been some pretty epic heists with things like that :P

    Other than that I wouldn't mind if it was kept quite simple, don't think there's much need for guild levels or other gamification of the guild system.

    • 888 posts
    March 20, 2022 3:40 AM PDT

    If there is some kind of guild xp or guild coin earned by players to support the guild, it should be set-up so only the top 10 most productive members of a guild actually generate xp / coin.  This will prevent pressure on all guild members to be constantly logged in and grinding xp / coin, thus allowing guilds to not be pressured to replace more casual players iwth hardcore players who are always on.

    • 1860 posts
    March 23, 2022 7:45 AM PDT

    Counterfleche said:

    If there is some kind of guild xp or guild coin earned by players to support the guild, it should be set-up so only the top 10 most productive members of a guild actually generate xp / coin.  This will prevent pressure on all guild members to be constantly logged in and grinding xp / coin, thus allowing guilds to not be pressured to replace more casual players iwth hardcore players who are always on.

    That seems like one of those 2 types of players should find a guild with people who have a playstyle more similar to their own.

     

    • 888 posts
    March 23, 2022 8:50 PM PDT

    philo said:

    Counterfleche said:

    If there is some kind of guild xp or guild coin earned by players to support the guild, it should be set-up so only the top 10 most productive members of a guild actually generate xp / coin.  This will prevent pressure on all guild members to be constantly logged in and grinding xp / coin, thus allowing guilds to not be pressured to replace more casual players iwth hardcore players who are always on.

    That seems like one of those 2 types of players should find a guild with people who have a playstyle more similar to their own.

    That's a fair point, though this suggestion also has the benefit of making smaller guilds less disadvantaged, allowing for more guilds to earn the rewards that attract members. And allowing the top members to earn allows those who enjoy this kind of game play to participate. I hope to avoid forcing players to choose between joining a guild they actually feel connected with and joining a mega guild just so they can get the niceties and rewards they want. 

    • 1860 posts
    March 23, 2022 10:37 PM PDT

    I don't think we will see any serious "mega guilds" due to the raid size cap.  Sure there may be large social/casual guilds but that doesn't relate to players :

    "joining a mega guild just so they can get the niceties and rewards they want. " 


    This post was edited by philo at March 23, 2022 10:41 PM PDT
    • 2138 posts
    March 25, 2022 9:03 AM PDT

    Major cities. Guild Halls. Keeping playerbase connected to playerbase. Keeping playerbase connected to world. Seperate but Equal, Mr. Tibbs. High-Rollers suite behind the velvet rope at the club. The cone of silence. "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

    The problem is real estate. The management would have to be coded. Vacant for so long and poof, if you come back, you pick a spot.

     

    What I mean is guild halls with a glass front wall. Everyone can see in and out but cannot "hear" what is being said inside. People inside can hear what is being said outside. You can see the entirety inside. located outside major cities?. Yes, the problem is volume. but I think it would lessen the complete seperateness and allow people to see when the guild is gathering.

    • 810 posts
    March 25, 2022 4:20 PM PDT

    I want perma guild barges on the ocean to be the standard guild hall system once ships come into the game.  I don't like the idea of instanced halls and don't think we need 5,000 halls and homes in each city.  The ocean is plenty of space and player's personal ships vanishing when you are offline is acceptable to most players I think.  I would be in favor of rafting my way out to a guild yacht to buy off a random guilds vendor so I do not have to pay the AH cut.  Seeing and possibly exploring their layout a bit. 

    I desire guilds/players building outposts in the world, but I also know it will ruin the world due to how small the world really is compared to how many guilds there would be.  I would love to have a guild set up an outpost in a dangerous area a small safe respite in the middle of nowhere is very thematic.  The problem is it would be 50 such locations everywhere you want to go.  For this reason I hope VR makes us able to support NPC factions who are building out then maintaining the curated outposts that don't ruin the world with endless amounts of them. 


    This post was edited by Jobeson at March 25, 2022 4:23 PM PDT
    • 1860 posts
    March 25, 2022 5:14 PM PDT

    Manouk said:

    Major cities. Guild Halls. Keeping playerbase connected to playerbase. Keeping playerbase connected to world. Seperate but Equal, Mr. Tibbs. High-Rollers suite behind the velvet rope at the club. The cone of silence. "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

    The problem is real estate. The management would have to be coded. Vacant for so long and poof, if you come back, you pick a spot.

     

    What I mean is guild halls with a glass front wall. Everyone can see in and out but cannot "hear" what is being said inside. People inside can hear what is being said outside. You can see the entirety inside. located outside major cities?. Yes, the problem is volume. but I think it would lessen the complete seperateness and allow people to see when the guild is gathering.



    Guild halls have been talked about as Guild Outposts...which are Pantheons version of housing that is guild based.  It's been slotted for post release for many years now.  I don't think we are going to see guild halls like you mention until the outpost system is implemented down the line.

    • 690 posts
    March 25, 2022 6:45 PM PDT

    Questaar said:

    Grand thread.

    Id like to see a guild hall be a physical building where land must be bought in every city you want to have a guild hall. Thus your guild should aspire to owning multiple guild halls.  A guild hall in Thronefast, and a guild hall in Faerthale. No fast travel from the guild hall in Thronefast to the guild hall in Faerthale.

    No guild buffs.

    No guild levels.

    No craftings stations in guild halls, I do like a guild bank.

    Nothing to usurp the need to go to towns.

    A guild should have:

    what time zone/country it's in. (Excellent idea!)

    Guild ranks

    Guild chat.

    Guild membership chart, by rank, class, craft ability, and name.  So four lists.

    MOTD

    Guild wide mail

    Guild calender

    Guild LFMembers chat channel

    Guild tabard or Cape symbol

    The ability to display trophies of guild kills.  Example the head of Marg the impaler, L25 Orc Boss, saying when it was killed.

     

    Sounds perfect to me! I especially like the idea of the guild chart, maybe with little nameplate pictures as well.

    I'd also like the idea of a guild rules and messages area, that reminds players of the next raid or what's not allowed.