There haven't been many posts regarding guild systems so I thought I might start the conversation. What would be your ideal guild structure? Are there any specific games out there currently (or in the past) that you think did it right? Is there something you would like to see that you haven't seen in a game yet?
Should the traditional ranking systems have greater benefits? For example, if "guild experience" was a game metric, would higher ranks add greater experience? Would your buffs on guildmates last longer? Do you think having a more beneficial ranking system would increase guild loyalty?
One guild system I always think of is Guild Wars 2. Your guild gained influence points whenever it grouped together for quests, dungeons, etc. You were then able to spend those points on guild-wide benefits. These included increased bank size, 24 hour buffs (experience, gold find, dungeon experience, crafting buffs, PvP buffs, etc), access to guild-only purchasable items, and many other things. GW2 also added "Guild Missions". These were tasks out in the world that members had to complete together. Guild Bounties required almost raid-level participation in order to capture or kill the target. Guild Puzzles - pretty self-explanatory. Guild Trek - finding POI's out in the world for the Exploration Society. Among other things. It was a fun way to pull the guild together and do something outside of the regular grind (not that Pantheon is going to have anything to do with the "regular grind").
Anyways...what would you like to see? What's worked in the past? What hasn't work? What do you dream about when you sleep at night (about guilds...I don't want to know anything else that goes on in your head at night...) ;)
I think EQ's current guild structure is just about perfect. I don't mind the guild being able to turn in rotting loot for tribute to pay for passive attribute effects that members can use, but i am not a fan of the perk system used by WoW, it just encourages the never ending spamming of guild invites of people who are offering you a level 25 guild and all the perks in exchange for the guild back (guild leader) getting all the bonus gold the guild receives when a member completes a quest. One thing i did like about Daoc's guild system is that a guild could join an alliance which gave all the guilds within the alliance a shared chat channel. In addition to an alliance channel, i would also like a built in officer channel. It can get annoying trying to manage autojoined channels in eq when you have to reset them.
Reht said:I think EQ's current guild structure is just about perfect. I don't mind the guild being able to turn in rotting loot for tribute to pay for passive attribute effects that members can use, but i am not a fan of the perk system used by WoW, it just encourages the never ending spamming of guild invites of people who are offering you a level 25 guild and all the perks in exchange for the guild back (guild leader) getting all the bonus gold the guild receives when a member completes a quest. One thing i did like about Daoc's guild system is that a guild could join an alliance which gave all the guilds within the alliance a shared chat channel. In addition to an alliance channel, i would also like a built in officer channel. It can get annoying trying to manage autojoined channels in eq when you have to reset them.
Reht said:
I think EQ's current guild structure is just about perfect. I don't mind the guild being able to turn in rotting loot for tribute to pay for passive attribute effects that members can use, but i am not a fan of the perk system used by WoW, it just encourages the never ending spamming of guild invites of people who are offering you a level 25 guild and all the perks in exchange for the guild back (guild leader) getting all the bonus gold the guild receives when a member completes a quest. One thing i did like about Daoc's guild system is that a guild could join an alliance which gave all the guilds within the alliance a shared chat channel. In addition to an alliance channel, i would also like a built in officer channel. It can get annoying trying to manage autojoined channels in eq when you have to reset them.
I also agree we need to curb zerg guilds that get the most people for the most what ever they can offer and then no one really works with each other etc.
Ah, guilds. Let's see...
This perspective will come from a thoroughly anti-social person, who, traditionally, has used guilds as a chat channel for help and correcting stupid people. Also to occasionally stir up drama through taboo conversation topics. The amount of times I've contributed to a guild bank with the expectation of withdrawing a similarly beneficial boon can be counted on one hand.
One thing I'd be against is getting some kind of buff or benefit that acts at a distance, spookily. There shouldn't be a benefit you can get that somehow helps your guildy more than a random stranger. If that type of benefit is a good idea, I'd like it to be obtained at, for example, a guild altar, before leaving town.
In other words, I'd like to keep it physical, local. There should be a guild hall, equipped with valuable things, in which people gather. A... dare I say it... commune.
The benefit acquired by obtaining or joining a guild hall should come from the proximity of needed things; crafting stations, crafting material stockpiles, beasts of burden housing, lucrative contract posting boards, etc.
I can't really think of anything else... Social gatherings just aren't my thing.
BlueEyedGator said:
As for Alliances, I like it. Question is, how many is too many? And when do they get too big?
This would depend heavily on what common cause brings them together. Could go either way, imo.
ImmerseMe said:
BlueEyedGator said:
As for Alliances, I like it. Question is, how many is too many? And when do they get too big?This would depend heavily on what common cause brings them together. Could go either way, imo.
Exactly, it really was mainly a persistent chat channel for those guilds to more easily stay in contact for grouping, etc. Of course daoc's game structure was a little different, while there were some uberguilds that rivaled and even surpassed EQ's in size, that really wasn't the norm and i don't think they had chat channels you could join that could do the same thing in the beginning.
I was in two guilds, at different times, that were within the same alliance. both had about 20 members each. The main guild within the alliance had about 40 or 50 and it had 2-3 other guilds the same size as mine. It allowed us to maintain our own guilds, but a constant larger pool of players to pull from if we wanted to raid or take keeps when we weren't doing 8v8. My thought wouldn't be anything that limits the number of guilds within an alliance but rather limit a guild to being a member of one alliance at a time. Ultimately it boils down to what the end game is going to be in Pantheon. In reality, it's really more of a convenience thing,
i would like ot have not only guilds but also Fellowships. say a group of no more than 12 people and you would get a fellowship chat channel for getting together to level and camp gear. for guilds i think there should be some kind of super-quest that would take about 30 players to finish acting in concert, and this would result in the allowance by the NPC's of the world to form a guild. (it soent have to be a raid, just some kind of quest that takes alot of players and good coordination)
Gawd said:i would like ot have not only guilds but also Fellowships. say a group of no more than 12 people and you would get a fellowship chat channel for getting together to level and camp gear. for guilds i think there should be some kind of super-quest that would take about 30 players to finish acting in concert, and this would result in the allowance by the NPC's of the world to form a guild. (it soent have to be a raid, just some kind of quest that takes alot of players and good coordination)
For me personally, I believe the guild doesn't need to gain levels and experience or have alliances artificially included, for me the fun and reward is in the guild itself and the members.
You are united under one name and that should fill you with pride and make you want to be the best you can be while interacting with other players or your guild members.
I remember seeing other guild systems with experience gained buffs and level structures for doing guild quests and overcomplicated things that were tacked on to promote being in a guild but back in the old days, we didn't need incentive other than to be surrounded with like minded players who shared similar goals in game and we formed bonds and friendships on that alone, plus it was always cool to have friendly help on call via guild chat.
Chat channels and the ability to create your own is pretty much the only tools you need to create alliances with other guilds, that and guild/alliance websites created by those guilds and their members but adding to the guild system by including these things for me, takes the fun out of the guild itself and all the politics, challenges and experiences you get from being part of that guild.
This is of course personal opinion and from my experience leading guilds in different games. I believe if you allow guild to be created by having minimum of 4-6 players in a group (to stop guild creation spam and taking names etc.) and allowing chat tabs and good options, a good UI interface and good tools for guild leaders/members to use to keep track of each other and their progress and communication, then other guilds will create chat channels to stay in touch, create alliances and work together via diplomatic means, which adds to the whole experience of being in a guild.
I had a very detailed post over at pjpantheon.com about this very subject with some great input from the community that listed bullet points on what should be included for guild tabs, UI functions etc. but it appears as if the site is down again now, so I can't retrieve it to show you. (I was able to find a cached version to paste below)
The game is being created with groups and raiding in mind, so we will need to get guilds right without breaking away from our simplistic and harsh theme carried over from EQ and VG. I personally do not want many bells and whistles, just a really well thought out tab, UI, options for leaders/members and the ability to communicate via player created chat channels, the rest the guild and it's members do themselves.
Pasted from pjpantheon.
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I really hope there is something like this done properly for guilds, since this game is going to be largely group based, guilds will be a very important part of the game and the community as a whole.
If we learn from mistakes other games have made and build on the good features we have come across, I believe we can implement something that will work well in game and allow easy set-up and management of a Pantheon guild.
Must Haves:
- Ranking Structure - Guild Leader, Raid Officer, Officer, Recruiter etc
- Permission system - preferably with a lot of toggle options for different ranks
- Easy to use interface - Nice simple layout that possibly incorporates a tab system
- Find a Guild list/tab/page - Advertising and easy to use interface for anyone to search for any guild and see if any recruiters are online...ask questions or just enquire about Guild needs
- Notes - allow us to make notes next to members names, tag as alt/main/recruit/date etc
- Coloured name tags - In guild chat, coloured name tags help separate Guild Leader/Officer/Member chat
- Guild Chat Channels - Officer chat, Members chat etc
- MOTD - Guild Message of the day broadcast to the member upon login
- Member Information
- Member log on alert
- Guild Description/Info
- Show Guild member status
- Show Guild members offline
- Show Guild members alts
- Tag someone as a guild recruiter
- Points/DKP system - This can be just a blank box that can be written in for Dkp or similar
- Name/Level/Class/Location/Crafting/Diplomacy/Harvesting descriptions and levels
- Ability to edit and reorder Ranks and names for Guild Leader/Officer/Recruit etc
- Guild Calendar - editable boxes that are dated with a simple time format system or even just a blank box with date to allow guilds to upload/log guild events for all members to see and prepare for.
- Pre-Launch Guild Set-up - Allowing for easy transition into the game on the same server
- Player/Guild Stats page - Similar to Vanguard Players page but without the disco photo or any other issues that caused it to be taken down, this was valuable to guilds, allowing us to check players alts, gear, stats etc
Please share your thoughts, I would like to especially hear from fellow guild leaders, to see what has worked for you in the past or what you would like to see, my points above are just my personal opinion and a starting point for discussion.
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That is what I posted over at pjpantheon back on the 27th Jan 2014.
There's one point in that list that I hope NOT to see in Pantheon, and that is "Member log on alert". I don't want my online presence to be announced...if I feel like it, I will just say "hi" in guild chat.
Another idea, since there was talk of a guild API (for roster etc). Maybe you can add a button in the guild window "Export", which will export the roster in XML (or some other text format).
Sarim said:
There's one point in that list that I hope NOT to see in Pantheon, and that is "Member log on alert". I don't want my online presence to be announced...if I feel like it, I will just say "hi" in guild chat.
Another idea, since there was talk of a guild API (for roster etc). Maybe you can add a button in the guild window "Export", which will export the roster in XML (or some other text format).
Options like that can be toggled on/off, so people who do like it can use it and others who don't can leave it off and ignore it, just to give everyone an option. I personally like it on only because I get excited to see a name pop online after waiting for them, so I can them flood them with PMs to come and help with something cool before there screen has even loaded the game yet lol
medousa said:
In the recruitment part of things, if there is a window, could we possibly label the guild as 'US', 'AUS', 'euro' etc and actually have a part where u can search for a particular time zone? This was touched upon on a different section of the forums, just wanted to bring it here and see what others think of it
That is a great idea mate, I was thinking about how to incorporate it in after seeing the poll earlier.
Also a drop down list with all the countries to choose from like how you would select your country when filling out a form online etc. would be great too and allow multiple selections for guilds that cater to all countries or maybe an option or two that includes everyone and all timezones...
I might start this up in App Dev for more detailed and focused discussion so we do not derail this thread, which has some great discussion going on.
In the end of my tenure with Rift it didn't matter what "level" your guild was. The only thing that really "mattered" was if you could kill the latest and greatest boss/raids. That's how most people define a certain "guild" regardless if you are casual or not. You look up to the people that do the "time" and educate themselves on "raids" "class" "crafting" or whatever nich you are into. A guild doesn't need to be this big bloated thing that nobody cares about, and is just a grind.
I completely agree Kilsin. For me the most important thing about Guilds was the community. It is sad that many guilds these days have degenerated into achievement hunters (the in-game designed achievements) and are less focused on creating and maintaining a community with each other. While, like I said originally, I did enjoy some of the "guild missions and buffs" I did not like them at the expense of having fun and creating friendships. It just became so political and formal..."If you can't log on at this specific time to do guild bounties for 4 hours so we can get the points then you can't be here"...that sort of mentality.
I also don't like, as many have said, the benefits of these guild point systems being in the hands of a few people. It shouldn't be about the numbers of recruits you have but the community you have created. I would rather be in a guild of 5 people who I love hanging out with that a guild of 200 where I don't know anyone. Additionally, any "benefit" achieved through the guild should affect everyone not just a few. The buffing system in GW2 worked that way, leaders activated buffs that went out to all guild members; if you earned extra gold it went to you not the guild, etc.
Great thoughts from everyone! Keep them coming!
Kilsin said:medousa said:
In the recruitment part of things, if there is a window, could we possibly label the guild as 'US', 'AUS', 'euro' etc and actually have a part where u can search for a particular time zone? This was touched upon on a different section of the forums, just wanted to bring it here and see what others think of itThat is a great idea mate, I was thinking about how to incorporate it in after seeing the poll earlier.
Also a drop down list with all the countries to choose from like how you would select your country when filling out a form online etc. would be great too and allow multiple selections for guilds that cater to all countries or maybe an option or two that includes everyone and all timezones...
I might start this up in App Dev for more detailed and focused discussion so we do not derail this thread, which has some great discussion going on.
I haven't played a whole lot of mmopgs but I have a few ideas off the top of my head...maybe all or some have already been done.
Guild Vault
- Would like to see a unique look for each guild somehow. Maybe if your guild completes certain epic guild quests you can get visual upgrades to the inside or outside of your guild hall if there is such a thing. Picture your guild having a giant vault and depending on how much gold is deposited it changes visually.. ( piles of gold and loot ) .same with epic encounters like dragons and such you may see a dragon claw from vox your guild took down at one time.
Class Achievment Halls
- How bout class halls. You walk into the hall of warriors and there are say 9 statues of visual representation of your top guilds warriors ( actual model of the characters in stone ) and their names set in stone on a plaque. The game just tracks which in the guild of that class that has the most achievments/levels or whatever you want.
Games Room
- Perhaps a games room where players can sit and play virtual games maybe poker? Players can use in game gold or items to wager.
Guild player to player quests
Say a lvl 40 needs items scattered around the world for a quest but involves weeks of killing low level mobs. Why not set up a system where a player can create a quest. Choose what items are needed and then submit an item or gold so whoever brings all those items back gets whatever reward the player set in the quest. Maybe the player can set the amount of days the quests needs to be completed and have the quest locked until time is up or a player brings back the quest items.
Goreblade said:
Guild player to player quests
Say a lvl 40 needs items scattered around the world for a quest but involves weeks of killing low level mobs. Why not set up a system where a player can create a quest. Choose what items are needed and then submit an item or gold so whoever brings all those items back gets whatever reward the player set in the quest. Maybe the player can set the amount of days the quests needs to be completed and have the quest locked until time is up or a player brings back the quest items.
I like this idea. I have never been one to participate in guilds, but this could motivate me to join one.
*edited to be more than a "me too" post
I know lots of players will vote againest this. But I am a big fan of Guild Housing. The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed. But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities. I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.
Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.
Rivacom said:
I know lots of players will vote againest this. But I am a big fan of Guild Housing. The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed. But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities. I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.
Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.
Guild Halls in Vanguard were something to be proud of, they took insane amounts of resources and crafting just to make let alone decorate and they cost 20-30 plat for a plot, so that was very hard to come by unless people cheated and duped like most towards the end of the game.
If we do housing in Pantheon, I would love to see a similar Guild Hall system to VG's :)
Kilsin said:
Rivacom said:
I know lots of players will vote againest this. But I am a big fan of Guild Housing. The ability for a guild to create a hall for themselves and display trophies of their accomplishments is something I've always enjoyed. But they need to place these in known cities so not to create this vacant void of cities. I did enjoy EQ2 and SWG's guild housing.
Also a lot of these comments go long with my pre-launch guild API i mentioned in another thread.
Guild Halls in Vanguard were something to be proud of, they took insane amounts of resources and crafting just to make let alone decorate and they cost 20-30 plat for a plot, so that was very hard to come by unless people cheated and duped like most towards the end of the game.
If we do housing in Pantheon, I would love to see a similar Guild Hall system to VG's :)
To be honest I am against a guild hall system unless done VERY carefully so as not to impact the cities
In EQ2 Qeynos and Freeport were bustling cities till the guild halls went in then they were ghost towns
You could do everything, and I mean everything in a guild hall...buy, sell, broker, craft, travel....they even had gatherers that would go out and gather resources for the guild so you always had items on hand (except rares) to craft with. Each guild became its own insulated little community and there was not alot left to do in the cities