I was playing Eq on the p99 server last night. And had a lightbulb moment... regarding the issue of maps!
I am aware there have been many suggestions from No maps to full maps and anywhere in between. IMO a good way to handle maps would be to have maps like the drawing on p99. they are accurate enough (the /loc is always +/- 200points) off. By having that up alongside the game one can navigate their way around, but at the same time it doesn't lead to one just staring at a map 24/7 to get around, there is still an element of exploration.
For instance with such a map I would not be pro having a marker to pinpoint my current location. A player can use coords to figure that out. IMO it is the personal pointer on a map that suddenly makes it detracting from the game experience.
Another way to explain it is: If we want realism and/or an accurate method to facilitate exploration and travel, why not have ordance survey style maps in game! Using one of those certainly doesn't take away from the adventure in real life, and I certainly would'nt go exploring vast areas without one. It would make sense our digital hero was smart enough to think the sameway!
What do people think?
There has been a lot of discussion previously regarding maps. And the developers have said there won't be any in-game maps and that players can use fan sites for in-game maps if they so choose. I am opposed to player's being granted in-game maps, but there has been several discussions here on a cartography tradeskill that would be neat if it could be practically implemented.
Just do a search of "cartography" in the search box on the forum here and you can find a few of the past threads discussing it.
Raidan said:
the developers have said there won't be any in-game maps and that players can use fan sites for in-game maps if they so choose.
Alrighty then! that settles that...
I'll give cartography a search and see what people ahve come up with.
Yeah, I would be in a favor of having no official map, but having maps be drawable by players. Right kicking on a map and compass in your inv would allow you to crudely navigate the world. Collections of maps could be put together into atlases. The whole system could fit into a simple writing and drawing system that would allow you to make unique scrolls and books.
Saphreal said:
Yeah, I would be in a favor of having no official map, but having maps be drawable by players. Right kicking on a map and compass in your inv would allow you to crudely navigate the world. Collections of maps could be put together into atlases. The whole system could fit into a simple writing and drawing system that would allow you to make unique scrolls and books.
Anyone remember some of the originals? They were basically bad Word/Visio diagrams of each zone connected to each other via Boxes and lines.
Saphreal said:
Yeah, I would be in a favor of having no official map, but having maps be drawable by players. Right kicking on a map and compass in your inv would allow you to crudely navigate the world. Collections of maps could be put together into atlases. The whole system could fit into a simple writing and drawing system that would allow you to make unique scrolls and books.
Yep the races of Terminus have mastered powerful magics, their can wield epic items that can kill Dragons, challenge the gods, cast spells to enchant beings, control their very nature.
However they are completely incapable of the simple concept of cartography, since the dawn of homoerectus we have manage to grasp this, but they sadly cannot.
I do not want a pinned map either, however a basic overland map would be desirable. If for no other reason then the sheer inability for me to conceptualize that the races of terminus with all their power, have not grasped such a simple concept. Even better if we could antonate it as we go, it begins as a rather bland very rough over land map, and it fills out with much better features and detail as you explore and you can add notes and points.
I mean the first guy to look out off a cliff didn't think "how cool it would be for me to draw what I see on a piece of paper, and fill it in as I explore....nah thats dumb I just cast exterimnate dragon on that wyrm over there, I'll walk down into that valley and get lost, cuz a map is stupid."
I realize why people do not want maps, they send messages of simple, cheating, easy to them. However mapping is a simple process, and its rather hard to grasp that no one would have thought about it and then done it. A very rough map like old school VG, then as you explore it fills out the features and details, and we can add points we find and see. A bonus for exploration is an in game full color detailed map as an added reward.
Exmortis said:
Saphreal said:
Yeah, I would be in a favor of having no official map, but having maps be drawable by players. Right kicking on a map and compass in your inv would allow you to crudely navigate the world. Collections of maps could be put together into atlases. The whole system could fit into a simple writing and drawing system that would allow you to make unique scrolls and books.
Yep the races of Terminus have mastered powerful magics, their can wield epic items that can kill Dragons, challenge the gods, cast spells to enchant beings, control their very nature.
However they are completely incapable of the simple concept of cartography, since the dawn of homoerectus we have manage to grasp this, but they sadly cannot.
I do not want a pinned map either, however a basic overland map would be desirable. If for no other reason then the sheer inability for me to conceptualize that the races of terminus with all their power, have not grasped such a simple concept. Even better if we could antonate it as we go, it begins as a rather bland very rough over land map, and it fills out with much better features and detail as you explore and you can add notes and points.
I mean the first guy to look out off a cliff didn't think "how cool it would be for me to draw what I see on a piece of paper, and fill it in as I explore....nah thats dumb I just cast exterimnate dragon on that wyrm over there, I'll walk down into that valley and get lost, cuz a map is stupid."
I realize why people do not want maps, they send messages of simple, cheating, easy to them. However mapping is a simple process, and its rather hard to grasp that no one would have thought about it and then done it. A very rough map like old school VG, then as you explore it fills out the features and details, and we can add points we find and see. A bonus for exploration is an in game full color detailed map as an added reward.
I really feel like this would be the best way to approach it. A simple Overland map like OG Vanguard to just see the size and layout of the world that through exploration could say become and HD more detailed map that you could possibly zoom in on, but it would leave dungeons, and detailed city maps out. As EX said it's kind of far fetched to believe no one had though of drawing a map.
Exmortis said:
Yep the races of Terminus have mastered powerful magics, their can wield epic items that can kill Dragons, challenge the gods, cast spells to enchant beings, control their very nature.
However they are completely incapable of the simple concept of cartography, since the dawn of homoerectus we have manage to grasp this, but they sadly cannot.
Remind me, was Columbus using maps?
Kayd said:
Exmortis said:
Yep the races of Terminus have mastered powerful magics, their can wield epic items that can kill Dragons, challenge the gods, cast spells to enchant beings, control their very nature.
However they are completely incapable of the simple concept of cartography, since the dawn of homoerectus we have manage to grasp this, but they sadly cannot.
Remind me, was Columbus using maps?
Probably no, but I bet you anything, he drew maps of where he went!
borgy95 said:
Kayd said:
Exmortis said:
Yep the races of Terminus have mastered powerful magics, their can wield epic items that can kill Dragons, challenge the gods, cast spells to enchant beings, control their very nature.
However they are completely incapable of the simple concept of cartography, since the dawn of homoerectus we have manage to grasp this, but they sadly cannot.
Remind me, was Columbus using maps?
Probably no, but I bet you anything, he drew maps of where he went!
So yes, he would have returned with a beautiful map of how to get to India. He could put it on the wall next to the Viking map showing where ships fall off the edge of the world, and the map showing "here be dragons" :) While maps did exist, the farther they got from the settled part of the world the more rare and inaccurate they became. Now if players are suggesting we have inaccurate maps for more remote regions of the world, that might be novel! The bottom line is the concept of exploration is inconsistent with maps. I can't quibble with maps of cities and areas close to civilization, but I just don't like the idea of having maps of high level dungeons and raid zones.