Reht said:
Hieromonk said:
Reht said:
Hieromonk said:
Secondly,
Many early Guilds in EQ raided low level dungeon like Nejena, Mistmoor, etc even though those zones had no end boss, per say. And that is what Brad was talking about... that mid-level dungeons can be uber challenging, and can even offer a raid lvl boss, even if you are lvl 25. The end game wasn't just for lvl 50's...(capped players), most just didn't attempt anything at lower levels, because there was too much risk.
This right here is the reason why i am ambivalent to pre-level cap raiding. If you actually have a guild strong enough to raid, then they can raid named mobs 5-10-15 levels higher for gear that would seem like raid-level gear to them. There really is no need to build pre-level cap raid bosses if players are provided with the opportunity do other things like that. Rather than making specific raid bosses, maybe do like they did in Temple of Veeshan/Kael with the armor drops off trash mobs. My guild spent many a night in Halls of Testing area in ToV and in Kael to farm enough gear to start raiding higher level raids.
Says who..?
Yes, you are correct that you can Raid on a mob 10~ 15 levels higher. That doesn't mean success. That doesn't mean success to the tune of being able to raid that mob again for another 2 weeks, or even where it will show up next. So that in 2 months time, only a handful of people would have rare items off such a mob. Not an entire guild.... lol.
I agree with Brad and can already present many difference variations based on his concept. The closet in EQ, would be the Mini-Boss in old Cazic-Thule.. or the last living Kedge.
Veeshan/Halls of Testing were all end-game raids... utterly different than what we are discussing.
Also, the idea that a guild is going to have raid armor right away, or within the first year will be laughable... "the game is bigger than you..."
I was agreeing your statement about raiding group dungeons and trying to explain why specifically designed "Raid" encounters weren't necessary at lower levels, clearly you misunderstood what I was trying to say or I did a poor job of explaining it. Non max level characters have the option of working on group content that is higher level than they are as raid-style content. I have no idea what you are alluding to with your 2 weeks comment, I was talking about group named where a raid of lower level characters could farm a spawn(s) and hope for multiple spawns within a single session. You were focusing solely on the example I was using rather than the mechanic I was trying to discuss. The point I was trying to make with ToV/Kael and the specific gear I was talking about is that they don't have to make "raids" in order to give guilds/larger groups of lower level characters a reason to band together in groups larger than a single group to raid, they could use higher level group content. Yes, ToV and Kael were raid zones, but the monsters that dropped that specific gear (ancient silk, tarnished plate, tarnished chain and ancient leather if I remember correctly) were not raid level monsters. Many guilds used that gear as a pathway to gearing up for raids during Velious. My guild did that a few nights a week for a couple of months before we started working on the bosses. we raided groupable content. This same principle could be easily used for lower level areas.
You thinking that people won't get raid gear in the first year is even more laughable. I can understand the philosophical desire to do so, but it would be an incredibly poor business decision on their part if they were to tune the game to slow down hardcore players enough to prevent them from getting raid gear within the first year. They may be able to recreate some of the magic of EQ/VG but they cannot recreate the conditions in era during which EQ exploded and thrived, there are too many competitors out there for people to play if the game is too hard or too grindy (which Brad has already stated he didn’t want Pantheon to be).
Thank you for the clarification.
I am one of those who will be at the for front... I expect a rougher time than in early EQ. Vanguard was a solofest and levels were trivial. EQ was pure oldschool and where solving comes into play. I expect Pantheon to take me 1 full year to reach max level. Plz go and vote if you have not already. See that I am not alone.
Secondly, grind doesn't apply here...
Grind is what "OTHERS" had to do, to catch up to the 3 year Vets in EQ. When they realized they could not have... nor obtain the kewl items people where wearing... except by Making something of yourself. Or, entice a Veteran to sell his account to you for $2800. Or actually earn it.
Every game after EQ was a grind. Including EQ post Luclin/PoP. Because the game become upward, not outward.
Problem solved now.
I have been playing FFXIV of late and they do a really good job of handling dungeons and quest mobs, by making it story content and only accessible once you have done a certain amount. Then its "Use duty finder to do dungeon" they also have Daily roulette for low level dungeons where you get good xp and are level done to the appropriate cap. The system works really well and I haven't had to much trouble doing content at all. Compare that to ESO and I missed half the dungeons because it was impossible to get groups.
Applying a similar strategy to low level raids would give people an opportunity to get in on them in gating further progress or speed of progress via storyline until you had done it? Encouraging higher levels with "high xp gain" completions would help get them done and strengthen the community. Having rare items with level scaling stats would also encourage participation.