I would like real achievements like in WoW, EQ and every steam game out there. I think the best thing would be secret achievements that you only see when you actually get them. I think it would add to the immersion! :)
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/polls/view/223/achivements
Discuss and vote!
I wouldn't personally like a ton of achievements that just pop every 5 seconds when you take a step or open your bag etc. but I would like a title system that shows your achievements in the form of a title next to your name.
At least with titles you can toggle them on or off and still gain respect for wearing a very hard to get title making you the envy of everyone around you ;)
But nothing too over done like WoW, that system was just too easy-mode in my opinion.
Agreed. Achievements are good, but nothing too overdone. I personally like what they did in SWTOR with the codex system, which was just their version of achievements. You would get them for clicking certain things in the environment (which encouraged exploration), doing certain quest lines, and from defeating raid bosses. The cool thing about codexes (sp?) is that they would give a description about the planet, quest, or raid boss that was defeated, so you could go back and read if you wanted. On a side note, I also like when MMO's keep track of your completed quests, so that you can later read through all of the old quests you've completed.
Kilsin, I like your idea of how certain achievements would be tied to titles.
However Achievements are done it doesn't really matter, but I think it's important to at least have them to give players just one more thing to work towards in game.
If there are achievements, I want them to be achievements. Killing 50,000 gnolls is not an achievement. It's something everyone will do by simply playing long enough.
Now, earning "Chef" in WoW, that was actually an achievement.... and getting the cooking done in the panda expansion - only those of us most tolerant to taking a dozen needles, heating them, and sticking them in your eyes finished that (I did).
An achievement has to be something that takes something to - well - achieve... Could be any of these (or more): Effort, stubbornness, skill, patience, etc...
But nothing you get just by playing.... You know, world exploring in WoW. The game sends you to every possible location in the game, then gives you an achievement for doing so.
Wandidar said:
If there are achievements, I want them to be achievements. Killing 50,000 gnolls is not an achievement. It's something everyone will do by simply playing long enough.
Now, earning "Chef" in WoW, that was actually an achievement.... and getting the cooking done in the panda expansion - only those of us most tolerant to taking a dozen needles, heating them, and sticking them in your eyes finished that (I did).
An achievement has to be something that takes something to - well - achieve... Could be any of these (or more): Effort, stubbornness, skill, patience, etc...
But nothing you get just by playing.... You know, world exploring in WoW. The game sends you to every possible location in the game, then gives you an achievement for doing so.
What you said about achievements being achievements, reminded me of a fun achievement in the Stanley Parable: "Click Door #430 five times".
It sounds pretty easy, but not so fast. For those of you who aren't familiar with the game, here's a video walkthrough of it...
I like the idea of achievements and I don't mind if they just pop up and let you know that you achieved it. In my mind as long as it is just something on your account profile that says "You killed 50,000 gnolls" its fine. That way you can keep track of what you have been doing with out it actual being an in game disruption. If it tells me I achieved something silly like killing a certain type when I am logging in or out that great and even interesting. When its in game though it is distracting.
Wandidar said:
If there are achievements, I want them to be achievements. Killing 50,000 gnolls is not an achievement. It's something everyone will do by simply playing long enough.
Now, earning "Chef" in WoW, that was actually an achievement.... and getting the cooking done in the panda expansion - only those of us most tolerant to taking a dozen needles, heating them, and sticking them in your eyes finished that (I did).
An achievement has to be something that takes something to - well - achieve... Could be any of these (or more): Effort, stubbornness, skill, patience, etc...
But nothing you get just by playing.... You know, world exploring in WoW. The game sends you to every possible location in the game, then gives you an achievement for doing so.
I liked the Tome of Knowledge in Warhammer, it was your personal journal ..that kept track of EVERYTHING you did ingame. Seemed like there were thousands of things to do. Kept me busy. There were achievements attached, rewards (fluff stuff).
Cana
Wandidar said:
If there are achievements, I want them to be achievements. Killing 50,000 gnolls is not an achievement. It's something everyone will do by simply playing long enough.
Now, earning "Chef" in WoW, that was actually an achievement.... and getting the cooking done in the panda expansion - only those of us most tolerant to taking a dozen needles, heating them, and sticking them in your eyes finished that (I did).
An achievement has to be something that takes something to - well - achieve... Could be any of these (or more): Effort, stubbornness, skill, patience, etc...
But nothing you get just by playing.... You know, world exploring in WoW. The game sends you to every possible location in the game, then gives you an achievement for doing so.
I hope Pantheon does not resemble Wow in any way shape or form (sorry...:))
Cana
I'm in agreement with Wandidar here - I think the name "Achievement" says it all - that you achieved something. An achievement isn't something that should occur just from playing the game, but that you went out of the ordinary into the extraordinary to accomplish something.
I'll use employment as a comparison example. Employees can typically get a regular raise if they just do their job; however, they typically are (or should be) rewarded and recognized based off of merit and achievement that goes above the expected job requirements. So, in game terms, if you just level your character to 50, you shouldn't get a "Level 50 Achievement" for just getting there, but how you go about getting 50 should be the achievement - whether that is as a Grandmaster Blacksmith, Completion of the Rights of Passage System, Epic quests, etc.
Also, I like meaningful titles, but, the purist in me doesn't want there to be hundreds (thousands) of watered down titles where they ultimately don't mean anything, and, with expansions, I don't see how you can get around having excessive titles. Conversely, in EQ, there were no titles at launch; however, just obtaining your Surname at 20 was a Huge accomplishment and a cool event when the GM granted your last name - I know it was more memorable than any title I received in EQ (or any other MMO). I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I would be ok with not having any titles and having the "surname" be my title like EQ.
Raidan said:
I'm in agreement with Wandidar here - I think the name "Achievement" says it all - that you achieved something. An achievement isn't something that should occur just from playing the game, but that you went out of the ordinary into the extraordinary to accomplish something.
I'll use employment as a comparison example. Employees can typically get a regular raise if they just do their job; however, they typically are (or should be) rewarded and recognized based off of merit and achievement that goes above the expected job requirements. So, in game terms, if you just level your character to 50, you shouldn't get a "Level 50 Achievement" for just getting there, but how you go about getting 50 should be the achievement - whether that is as a Grandmaster Blacksmith, Completion of the Rights of Passage System, Epic quests, etc.
Also, I like meaningful titles, but, the purist in me doesn't want there to be hundreds (thousands) of watered down titles where they ultimately don't mean anything, and, with expansions, I don't see how you can get around having excessive titles. Conversely, in EQ, there were no titles at launch; however, just obtaining your Surname at 20 was a Huge accomplishment and a cool event when the GM granted your last name - I know it was more memorable than any title I received in EQ (or any other MMO). I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I would be ok with not having any titles and having the "surname" be my title like EQ.
And please...no 3 yard long titles...that block the view, get a crowd happening with all those lonnnnng titles and it is pretty unattractive. Better yet, give us toggle to turn all that off. lol
I will still want an achievement tab and achievements popup window like in WoW, but I don't want progression achievements (instead I want a logbook: https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1659/stats-log-book-tab )
What I do want is achievements that matters! Achievements I actually can be proud to show off. Like you guys have said I must have DONE something to earn them
There is likely a good argument to be made for capturing statistics. It's sort of fun to know that I:
- Killed 56,254 gnolls
- Caught 10,892 fish
- Looted 9,762 platinum
It's just that those things are just that - statistics. That's probably a good first cut on whether something should be an achievement. If it can be considered just a statistic, or perhaps more appropriately counting some number of something you did... then it's likely not an achievement.
Here are some examples of what I would consider achievement worthy:
"Better red than dead" - Solo a red con mob with no intervention from another player. This includes buffs, heals, etc...
"Sweeper Keeper" - Kill 10 consecutive spawns of a zone sweeper without it killing another player.
"Chef" - Master the fine art of cooking, including at least 10 exotic recipes
And I think it would be cool if there were achievements that only certain classes could get. For example:
"Thief" - Enter the caverns of 40 mobs every 6 inches. Get to the throne room and steal the kings keys. Get back out of the caverns. You must complete all of this without being detected.
Wandidar said:
There is likely a good argument to be made for capturing statistics. It's sort of fun to know that I:
- Killed 56,254 gnolls
- Caught 10,892 fish
- Looted 9,762 platinum
It's just that those things are just that - statistics. That's probably a good first cut on whether something should be an achievement. If it can be considered just a statistic, or perhaps more appropriately counting some number of something you did... then it's likely not an achievement.
Here are some examples of what I would consider achievement worthy:
"Better red than dead" - Solo a red con mob with no intervention from another player. This includes buffs, heals, etc...
"Sweeper Keeper" - Kill 10 consecutive spawns of a zone sweeper without it killing another player.
"Chef" - Master the fine art of cooking, including at least 10 exotic recipes
And I think it would be cool if there were achievements that only certain classes could get. For example:
"Thief" - Enter the caverns of 40 mobs every 6 inches. Get to the throne room and steal the kings keys. Get back out of the caverns. You must complete all of this without being detected.
I really love your ideas.
Hmmm interesting idea... my line of thinking is be consistent with things.. IF you do not want frivolous things on the website( i.e. post tracking, thanked, points.scores for doing stuff on the forums) then you should not have "Achievements" in game either.. If you want them in game then they should be allowed on the website/forums.. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I do not try to complete every achievement in game or even on the forums but I do want for both to be as fun and enjoyable as possible.
Sogotp said:
Hmmm interesting idea... my line of thinking is be consistent with things.. IF you do not want frivolous things on the website( i.e. post tracking, thanked, points.scores for doing stuff on the forums) then you should not have "Achievements" in game either.. If you want them in game then they should be allowed on the website/forums.. Personally, I don't care one way or the other. I do not try to complete every achievement in game or even on the forums but I do want for both to be as fun and enjoyable as possible.
I don't know. I disagree. The forums are completely different than the game, especially these forums which were designed to assist development.
One doesn't affect the other. If they decide to have achievements in game, it doesn't mean they should be required to have separate achievements for the forums also. The forums is not the game, Pantheon is.
Sogotp said:
IF you do not want frivolous things on the website( i.e. post tracking, thanked, points.scores for doing stuff on the forums) then you should not have "Achievements" in game either.. If you want them in game then they should be allowed on the website/forums..
I don't agree at all! The forum is not a game! I don't see how you can make that connection at all to be honest. :S
So, I listened to the Jan. 15th podcast, and Brad went into some detail on the theory about what he wants the 'Achievement System' to be.
Now, it's my understanding that the OPs post about 'achievements' and the developments team 'achievement system' can be two different beasts. I like to refer to the OPs 'achievements' more as challenges, which of course upon completion can be quite the achievement. Some are as simple as going to an area, others like acquiring all of 'x' item, or even as challenging as beating a game without dying.
Pantheons achievement system, from the sound of it, is to be more of an exploration or expedition system. The activities involved in this system would generally be more straightforward...you know, "go here, talk to him/her, uncover the mystery of such and such dungeon." I do think the activity itself should be pretty straightforward, because the intention is to promote physical and social exploration. If there's one thing that sucks its grinding mobs in areas you've already been, and of course the grinding itself, even if you are just trying to level an alt, and I think it is AMAZING that there will be a system in place that encourages players to see and learn new content, who knows, they might even find a new favorite area.
Going back to those 'challenges.' I do think challenges/achievements have a great place in any game. It shows discipline and dedication, but only if the challenges are actually challenging/meaningful. Yeah, killing 50000, or even 5000000 gnolls isnt really an achievement...sorry boys...(i guess you can have a gnoll slayer title..congrats, it will give us all a chuckle)
Maybe settlements/hubs/other players can share these challenges with you and put it into a log book. Now for the real question, what is the reward for completing challenges. Well, I guess that depends on the challenge! I know in previous games ive played, I've really enjoyed cosmetic or humorous items you can earn. Heck, If I see another player wearing some sweet garb, im sure as hell gonna ask him what he did to get it and probably try and complete the challenge myself.
Well..im done blabbing...im not even sure im discussing the same thing as the OP or this topic anymore =P
Xeravik said:
So, I listened to the Jan. 15th podcast, and Brad went into some detail on the theory about what he wants the 'Achievement System' to be.
Now, it's my understanding that the OPs post about 'achievements' and the developments team 'achievement system' can be two different beasts. I like to refer to the OPs 'achievements' more as challenges, which of course upon completion can be quite the achievement. Some are as simple as going to an area, others like acquiring all of 'x' item, or even as challenging as beating a game without dying.
Pantheons achievement system, from the sound of it, is to be more of an exploration or expedition system. The activities involved in this system would generally be more straightforward...you know, "go here, talk to him/her, uncover the mystery of such and such dungeon." I do think the activity itself should be pretty straightforward, because the intention is to promote physical and social exploration. If there's one thing that sucks its grinding mobs in areas you've already been, and of course the grinding itself, even if you are just trying to level an alt, and I think it is AMAZING that there will be a system in place that encourages players to see and learn new content, who knows, they might even find a new favorite area.
Going back to those 'challenges.' I do think challenges/achievements have a great place in any game. It shows discipline and dedication, but only if the challenges are actually challenging/meaningful. Yeah, killing 50000, or even 5000000 gnolls isnt really an achievement...sorry boys...(i guess you can have a gnoll slayer title..congrats, it will give us all a chuckle)
Maybe settlements/hubs/other players can share these challenges with you and put it into a log book. Now for the real question, what is the reward for completing challenges. Well, I guess that depends on the challenge! I know in previous games ive played, I've really enjoyed cosmetic or humorous items you can earn. Heck, If I see another player wearing some sweet garb, im sure as hell gonna ask him what he did to get it and probably try and complete the challenge myself.
Well..im done blabbing...im not even sure im discussing the same thing as the OP or this topic anymore =P
Your hunch is absolutley right Xeravik: Acheivements in this thread is different from the achievement system you heard in the video and it has been renamed "Rites of Passage" to differentiate it. There is some chatter about the Rites in this thread if you are curious : https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1634/concerning-the-rites-of-passage
I absolutely agree with you that challenges should be meaningful and I like your idea of "Maybe settlements/hubs/other players can share these challenges with you and put it into a log book. "
Whenever achievements are mentioned I immediately think of the WoW system of Achievements. Most of them meant absolutely nothing... "Oh wow, I just dinged level 20 without dieing, I just dinged level 25 without dieing.. etc? Ooo look I just found a new zone/area where there are at least 50 other people int he zone right now.. Oh, hey, I just survived a dungeon without losing XXX amount of hitpoints." In my opinion putting an achievement system in is pointless because ULTIMATELY it is the community that decides what is noteworthy on each server.. I have no idea what Pantheon will be but I suspect that if there is a lot of fluff put into the game then there will be less substance. I would prefer more substance to the point that it would take me two or even three different characters to grasp just how much thought and lore and everything else went into the game.
Speaking of WoW achievements. For the most part, working WoW achievements nets you 2 things:
Points - as in "I have 9 bazillion achievement points and you only have 8 bazillion! I'm more achievy (my own word) than you!"
Mounts - as in "Hey cool, now I have a blue gazelle mount to go with my purple, green, yellow, orange, and chartreuse gazelle mounts!"
To be fair, they have added more stuff of late. Fluff pets, etc...
I don't currently have some grand idea about what a proper reward system should be for completing achievements of varied difficulties... but, looking at WoW (and most other games out there) - I know it isn't that.
One idea I like is a "trophy" system of sorts - where, say if you killed "the bandit king" you might get something as a trophy that you could wear in a special trophy inventory slot that was visible (so people could see the trophy). Sort of like a title, but not words - an actual, visible, wearable thing.
Problem there is banking all of that - so maybe include a "trophy" bank or whatever.
Anybody else hate the current achievement reward ideas in MMO's and have other ideas?
Sorry for necro bump, but didn't want to create a new thread. I would like more discussion on this. I've found achievements to be something that has been a great additions to the MMO world as it has provided more things for people to do and usually adds some emphasis to do some content that might otherwise be ignored.
I am however not a fan of a couple achievements. 1st being world first achievements. There are many factors as to why someone may not be world first to something. As a collector even more it is disheartening at times knowing there is achievements you cannot get. I would suggest doing a time stamp on when achievements are obtained and just leaving it at that. The community can make world firsts if they want. 2nd being a plethora of easy achievements. I mean why is it an achievement to enter a city or something? Exploring an entire map? Sure that may be a little more justifiable, but discoving an open area that required no effort to get to in that zone? No thanks.
Sevens said:I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but I would be ok with not having any titles and having the "surname" be my title like EQ.
I would agree with this!
Agreed.
I also don't think achievements should be on some list.
I would rather real information just be added to my journal as I accomplish different things or talk to different people. If I spoke to an old hermit and somehow coaxed some important backstory or info out of him, I'd like to just see that info in my journal. I don't need a list telling me where to go and what to do in order to get a gold star.
I really hope this juvenile pandering sort of achievements that have become so prevalent are not a part of Pantheon.