My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
Butch said:My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
Fear not. Here's the current plan:
Gathering:
- Players will be able to pick up all five gathering professions (mining, woodcutting, harvesting, skinning, and fishing) at a basic level.
- Players will be able to specialize in two of those professions. Specialization adds additional techniques like limited node tracking and makes you more effective.
- Players will be able to master one of the two specialized gathering professions.
The reason for setting gathering up this way is that we view gathering a little bit differently from most MMORPGs out there today. In our game, gathering is heavily risk/reward-based. Exotic resources generally come from dangerous areas - often very specific dangerous areas - where you will need some backup if you want to gather them in any kind of quantity. So your endgame activity as a gatherer may revolve around literally gathering your friends/guild and mounting expeditions to some far-flung and dangerous location in order to acquire that powerful ore or wood or the hide of some beast.
Second, we view gathering as a social, group-oriented activity. Partly because of that risk-reward paradigm, and partly because we plan to have large-scale collaborative crafting projects where you may need lots and lots of resources (for example, building player-owned sailing ships). As a result, we want your group members to be able to pitch in and help when you're working on gathering things. The envisioned gameplay will be similar to the group gathering experience in Vanguard, where you can take some friends out with you and they can help you gather more than you could on your own.
Specialization is the balance to this approach. So even though everyone may learn woodcutting at a basic level, you will probably want a specialist woodcutter with your group if you are going after those rare and special trees, as an example.
Crafting
Crafters will be able to select two professions, one from each group:
Group A
- Blacksmithing
- Woodworking
- Outfitting
- Jewelcrafting
Group B
- Provisioning
- Alchemy
So you could choose to be an Outfitter and a Provisioner, a Blacksmith and an Alchemist, or any other combination of one profession from each of the two groups.
You may have noticed that those professions are very, very broad. Within each of those professions, there's a specialization system that allows you to decide how you want to focus. So for example as an Outfitter, you may decide to specialize in Leatherworking - or you may go even further and specialize in Leather Tanning. This would make you very good at tanning leather (really important for using those high-end pelts) but you also would only have mediocre skills at best in working with cloth. Meanwhile, someone who chose to specialize in Tailoring might be able to easily produce really amazing cloth items, but would need to rely on you for fancy leather.
The reason for the Group A/Group B split has to do with the different types of items each profession produces. Provisioning and Alchemy are primarily focused on consumables, and those simply behave differently with regard to supply/demand than durable goods like weapons or armor do. While there will be some consumables that are produced in town using specialized crafting stations, our consumable professions actually do a lot of their stuff "in the field" at campfires, so they can make supplies for their groups to use without having to go back to town all the time.
Things may always change of course - we may actually add a third Group B profession at some point - but this is the plan for now!
Nephele said:
Butch said:
My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
Fear not. Here's the current plan:
Gathering:
- Players will be able to pick up all five gathering professions (mining, woodcutting, harvesting, skinning, and fishing) at a basic level.
- Players will be able to specialize in two of those professions. Specialization adds additional techniques like limited node tracking and makes you more effective.
- Players will be able to master one of the two specialized gathering professions.
The reason for setting gathering up this way is that we view gathering a little bit differently from most MMORPGs out there today. In our game, gathering is heavily risk/reward-based. Exotic resources generally come from dangerous areas - often very specific dangerous areas - where you will need some backup if you want to gather them in any kind of quantity. So your endgame activity as a gatherer may revolve around literally gathering your friends/guild and mounting expeditions to some far-flung and dangerous location in order to acquire that powerful ore or wood or the hide of some beast.
Second, we view gathering as a social, group-oriented activity. Partly because of that risk-reward paradigm, and partly because we plan to have large-scale collaborative crafting projects where you may need lots and lots of resources (for example, building player-owned sailing ships). As a result, we want your group members to be able to pitch in and help when you're working on gathering things. The envisioned gameplay will be similar to the group gathering experience in Vanguard, where you can take some friends out with you and they can help you gather more than you could on your own.
I loved VGs crafting system and a major part of that as a Jeweller at the time was my specialisation. I cuold discover new recipes and at the time only I could make them as I knew how I discovered them. This was huge. The whole system was great. The gathering and major build undertakings (Castle / Boats) were also superb so any nod to thiese is well received.
Returning to these forums after about 3 years to use my pledge on the Pre-Alpha invites for Alphas pledgers, I like everything I read above. Very refreshing news.
Adding that level of depth is a strong feature plus for me.
1 request/suggestion - I am not sure how easy this is to deliver on - VG had a great system where on my character sheet on the website, it stated how many of my items I made (larger more durable items from the Group A selection above) were in use by players in the game. This was such an excellent feature and it drew me into crafting to hone my craft. Very much a representation of my "fame" as a crafter. Time wise.... I played VG from beta to launch +18 months where I left the game.
Nephele said:Butch said:My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
Fear not. Here's the current plan:
Gathering:
- Players will be able to pick up all five gathering professions (mining, woodcutting, harvesting, skinning, and fishing) at a basic level.
- Players will be able to specialize in two of those professions. Specialization adds additional techniques like limited node tracking and makes you more effective.
- Players will be able to master one of the two specialized gathering professions.
The reason for setting gathering up this way is that we view gathering a little bit differently from most MMORPGs out there today. In our game, gathering is heavily risk/reward-based. Exotic resources generally come from dangerous areas - often very specific dangerous areas - where you will need some backup if you want to gather them in any kind of quantity. So your endgame activity as a gatherer may revolve around literally gathering your friends/guild and mounting expeditions to some far-flung and dangerous location in order to acquire that powerful ore or wood or the hide of some beast.
Second, we view gathering as a social, group-oriented activity. Partly because of that risk-reward paradigm, and partly because we plan to have large-scale collaborative crafting projects where you may need lots and lots of resources (for example, building player-owned sailing ships). As a result, we want your group members to be able to pitch in and help when you're working on gathering things. The envisioned gameplay will be similar to the group gathering experience in Vanguard, where you can take some friends out with you and they can help you gather more than you could on your own.
Specialization is the balance to this approach. So even though everyone may learn woodcutting at a basic level, you will probably want a specialist woodcutter with your group if you are going after those rare and special trees, as an example.
Crafting
Crafters will be able to select two professions, one from each group:
Group A
- Blacksmithing
- Woodworking
- Outfitting
- Jewelcrafting
Group B
- Provisioning
- Alchemy
So you could choose to be an Outfitter and a Provisioner, a Blacksmith and an Alchemist, or any other combination of one profession from each of the two groups.
You may have noticed that those professions are very, very broad. Within each of those professions, there's a specialization system that allows you to decide how you want to focus. So for example as an Outfitter, you may decide to specialize in Leatherworking - or you may go even further and specialize in Leather Tanning. This would make you very good at tanning leather (really important for using those high-end pelts) but you also would only have mediocre skills at best in working with cloth. Meanwhile, someone who chose to specialize in Tailoring might be able to easily produce really amazing cloth items, but would need to rely on you for fancy leather.
The reason for the Group A/Group B split has to do with the different types of items each profession produces. Provisioning and Alchemy are primarily focused on consumables, and those simply behave differently with regard to supply/demand than durable goods like weapons or armor do. While there will be some consumables that are produced in town using specialized crafting stations, our consumable professions actually do a lot of their stuff "in the field" at campfires, so they can make supplies for their groups to use without having to go back to town all the time.
Things may always change of course - we may actually add a third Group B profession at some point - but this is the plan for now!
Nephele,
Can you please clarify the use of the word 'player'? Your response while illuminating doesn't necessarily answer the OP's question. I assume your use of the word 'player' rather than 'character' would suggest that this is an account wide decision you must make, but your response doesn't explicitly say that. So the original question stands. Can I just have a master crafter on each character multiplied by however many character slots I have?
Mornroc said:Nephele,
Can you please clarify the use of the word 'player'? Your response while illuminating doesn't necessarily answer the OP's question. I assume your use of the word 'player' rather than 'character' would suggest that this is an account wide decision you must make, but your response doesn't explicitly say that. So the original question stands. Can I just have a master crafter on each character multiplied by however many character slots I have?
Unless there has been a recent change that wasn't made clear to the PA testers, Nephele just wasn't being precise when using the term player rather than character. Everything we've learned in PA has indicated that each Character on an account can participate equally and independently in Crafting.
Leveling crafting in Pantheon is quite a process already, for example there are already something like 24 profession skills. Blacksmithing already looks like it can branch into Plate, Chain, Weapons and Smelting which would require 4 characters to master just that single Group A skill. With Capentry, Fletching, Woodcarving, Tanning, Weaving, Clothworking, Leatherworking, Gemcutting, and Jewelcrafting already being additional mastery paths you are talking like 14 characters to master everything.
Skill levels are capped by character level so that means maxing all of those characters in level as well. I say if someone wants to do that and that is how they enjoy the game then let them, it will take a massive investment of time and resources and they would deserve that reward.
This is already shaping up to be one of the best crafting/gathering/economy systems and there will be players that want to concentrate their efforts on economy and they should be allowed to do so. Plus, limiting it by account will just mean they establish multiple accounts which brings its own pros/cons as does nothing to prevent your op's concerns.
Butch said:My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
What you also forget is that if you can do every profession you need huge amounts of bag space to having all professions is not realistic for 1 character
ghrast said:Butch said:My largest complaint with newer MMO's is that there is no individuality among players. If everyone has multiple character slots thus more master cooks, skinner's, chemists etc. then people will not stand out. EQ1 originally had 1 slot you could master meaning if you were in a group with a cook you had an advantage with food buffs or a bowyer could make on the spot ammo. Please do not allow every player to max out every profession.
What you also forget is that if you can do every profession you need huge amounts of bag space to having all professions is not realistic for 1 character
A valid point I realized quickly during the testing. While they gave you the ability and quests to do everything, it was rapidly not feasible due to bank and inventory storage limitations.