Hey fellow Pantheon fans (and hopefully Kilsin or another representative)! I wanted to give my feedback about the most recent monk stream in a place where a VR rep is most likely to see it. Full disclaimer - I'm just a regular guy who likes playing video games and the MMO genre, so my word is far from gospel, but I know VR tries to take in feedback from players so hopefully some of this can be useful to them.
Overall, I really, really enjoyed the stream. I'll be honest, I skipped the class matrix because I don't think that needs 15 minutes of video and a simple PNG will suffice, but I understand some people are much more into game lore than I am so they can watch that if they like it and I can skip it. However, I will admit I've watched the monk gameplay probably like 6 times and listened to the community Q&A a couple times. For whatever reason, I find the gameplay section of the video extremely relaxing and find myself wishing I could sit down and lose myself in the world of Terminus for a few hours. It looks absolutely great, and Tehom in particular really seems like he's got a clear vision of how combat should be.
That said, a few things I can nitpick on, mainly on the visual side of things, which I understand is a work in progress of course and I will largely refrain from any commentary on the aesthetics of the UI as I know that's largely in a placeholder state (as are the enemy NPC models).
The sprint animation looks decent but there are a few minor issues, some noticed by commenters on YouTube as well. For starters, the head looks way too stationary and it gives the whole thing a very unnatural feel. The head probably needs to bounce side to side a bit as his weight shifts from leg to leg, and maybe even back to front a bit. The whole body probably needs to bounce up and down just a little bit as well. He's also landing too flat-footed. Sprinters land on the balls of their feet, often without their heels touching the ground at all - if the heels do touch, they touch only for a millisecond AFTER the initial impact.
The "strike" technique displayed at 21:33 in the video looks a little too fluid on what should be its impact. I feel like it should really snap into and out of impact. Right now it almost feels like more of a gentle push than a strike.
Combat "reaction" animations to getting hit aren't really in yet, but I did notice one or two combat graphics. One was very subtle - almost looks like little poofs of dust coming off the deer at 21:15 in the video. The second was much more noticeable - at around 33:20 in the video, the bear hits the player with an ability called "maul" and there's a very obvious clawmark graphic that appears on the player. There are some design decisions around how "realistic" a game should appear, and obviously having 3 verical slice marks appear on your character when getting mauled by a bear isn't realistic, but from the viewpoint of the fact that we are playing a videogame with our camera panned out, the maul graphic reads much more clearly than the little poofs of dust that I could barely see. In real life, you don't need anyone to tell you that you just got mauled by a bear - you can feel it (at least I assume you can; I've never done it). But in a videogame, that graphic is a really great visual cue that "I just got mauled" and I would love to see more effects like that. The poofs of dust are just too subtle.
The player's level would be great to see on the UI without having to open a menu or window - maybe on the XP bar somewhere? Maybe on the character's unit frame? This isn't really an aesthetic choice, this is a functional one, so I consider it fair game for feedback even this early in UI's development.
Similarly, while having other players' names hover above their head is useful information, having my own name hover above my head is not - that's information I should simply already know, and if I don't it is visible in my character's unit frame 100% of the time anyway. Possibly toggleable, but I would prefer this to be off, not on.
I am sure the words "idle animations" have been said numerous times, but those poor monk NPCs at the start of the stream desperately need something to do other than stand in place as if entranced.
Also please don't make us type /sit to sit. A hotkey would be ideal. The fewer times I need to type a /command in a console when playing a game, the better.
That's pretty much it. Everything else is fantastic. The combat - both what I saw and what the team described - seems interesting and engaging. The fact that I can see relevant information on the UI - buffs, debuffs, my enemy's level, how their level compares to mine, their health, and so on - wonderful stuff. Also I have no doubt the "jaw dropping" changes to rocks and mountains will be exactly that - even though rocks and mountains and dirt may seem like a very mundane detail in a game, the fact that they often take up a very large portion of our screen's real estate means that graphical improvements to them will make a tremendous difference in how the scene appears, so I'm very much looking forward to those ivory white mountains getting some texture.
Again, these are just the opinions of a fan (and I'm sure some will be disagreed with by other fans), and I want to reiterate I give them as respectfully as possible with the hope that they can help by giving feedback.
Thanks for your time. Cheers.
Iksar said:Is player level really important information to display at all times? Do many people forget what level they are often and not want to press one key to see their character sheet?
It may vary from player to player. You're probably right that it's not critical information, but we're talking 2 digits of text that shouldn't take up but maybe 20 pixels height and width.
Vandraad said:Ya know, there's already a thread about monk stream feedback still on the first page.
Indeed. I thought since that thread was largely dedicated to specifically discussing one user's feedback, it wouldn't hurt to have a fresh thread for my feedback instead of dumping 10+ paragraphs into his replies.
Heebs said: Indeed. I thought since that thread was largely dedicated to specifically discussing one user's feedback, it wouldn't hurt to have a fresh thread for my feedback instead of dumping 10+ paragraphs into his replies.
A significant aspect of Vandraad's comment, which would have made sense to mention due to your low post count, is that VR prefers us to keep discussion topics on a single thread as much as possible. The purpose is to allow easier access to community opinions, both for the Devs and for new forum members.
It's not a huge deal, just something to know. Along with that, necroing an old thread that you wish to revive discussion on is also preferred to starting a new one on the same topic.
As to your points, I agree about the look of sprinting. I didn't notice as much as you did, but did notice one scene where the head seemed to float thru space on a perfectly smooth, level trajectory that looked unrealistic to me.
I've long tuned out any animation issues as I know 'polishing' them is not at the top of the priority list. Expressing opinions about them is certainly quite reasonable though. I'll certainly do more of it when we get closer to Beta. Combat animations are in that category for me as well.
As far as other players on my screen, I think it would be nice to see their level when I'm grouping with them. I'd prefer that to be on the 'group list' UI on my screen. There is a mechanic of 'considering' NPCs, and I would assume we will be able to do it to other PCs as well. I'd expect to see level and a bit more info than that when I consider another player who isn't in my group. There hasn't been any discussion I've yet seen on the subject of exactly how much.
As far as my own level, I just can't imagine often wondering "what level am I?". And as an altaholic planning to play 6-8 characters, I could certainly get confused when hopping between several of them LoL! That said, other games have given players some choices on what is displayed on their own nameplate. It could just show a name or also include level, class, title, guild, etc. Choices are good. Of course so is the choice to turn off other players' nameplates if one finds them a distraction :)
To address several points at once: VR has stated more than once that their goal is to have all of your UI customizable by each player. To give you the ability to move individual parts of it around where you want, make them bigger or smaller, and to turn them on or off to suit your need for info. This should be a solution to several of the things you wish to see.
Also, we will definitely have macros. You will be able to make /sit a macro. You will be able to keep it on an 'auxilliary hotbar' (that doesn't affect your LAS) and click it if you want. If you think it more important, you will be able to bind it somewhere on your keyboard.
Iksar said:Is player level really important information to display at all times? Do many people forget what level they are often and not want to press one key to see their character sheet?
I imagine this game will be widely streamed and having the player level available for reference at a glance be important for streamers and viewers alike. The devs have mentioned the UI will be customizable, so perhaps this is something that will be a user choice.
Jothany said:As to your points, I agree about the look of sprinting. I didn't notice as much as you did, but did notice one scene where the head seemed to float thru space on a perfectly smooth, level trajectory that looked unrealistic to me.
I called it the Terminator Sprint on stream. Probably a little mean but I had a very visceral reaction to the sprint when we saw it. I felt like the other animations were all great, just needs some reactions from the mobs when you land a hit. And maybe some dodge animations, too. I noticed Minus dodge a few times but I think it was in regards to a technique he used. Also some nice, loud crunching noises.
For nameplates and stuff, a super customizable one sounds great, but also one that just displays level, name and health would be more than fine as well. You can always turn yours or others or both off. Obviously that's a future project they don't need to worry about right now but I hope they at least add a black or white shadow to the nameplate text soon because I had a super hard time reading it at many points on stream.
Byproducts said: I called it the Terminator Sprint on stream.I hope they at least add a black or white shadow to the nameplate text soon because I had a super hard time reading it at many points on stream.
Two thumbs up for the Terminator Sprint LoL!
I think I recall names being difficult to read in several games over the years. I also hope VR makes some progress on this issue.