Now that I have decided to Pledge for Alpha this summer, either Pathfinder or Advisor, I want clear milestones to justify each $50 Pledge increase, both to myself, and anyone else I might encourage.
I have great respect for the developers and the Road to Alpha, but it is too difficult to find and follow on this website. It does not appear under the four major tabs on the home page, does not appear under News or FAQ, and can only be found by searching the Pantheon Forums.
Contrast this with: Alpha Tracker | Library of Pantheon
That's how it should be done, as a stand alone section, not buried in forums threads, and no more than two obvious clicks away from the home page.
Words fail to convey the longing in my heart for Pantheon. It pulls at my soul, as the Undying Lands call to the Elves of Middle Earth.
I checked to see when I bought 2 legate packages for $100 each. It was over 4 years ago. Frankly, this project looks like it's going to take another 4 years just to get to "Alpha". Reminds me of the big bucks I wasted on Star Citizen. Never again.
Bazgrim et al have done a good job with the Library. I use it often. I wish the Pantheon website was more up to date but VR has other priorities. I do think the road to alpha is a great way to keep track of progress. It's never gonna be as fast as I would like but I do think VR is expanding and that's great news.
ronjackson said:I checked to see when I bought 2 legate packages for $100 each. It was over 4 years ago. Frankly, this project looks like it's going to take another 4 years just to get to "Alpha". Reminds me of the big bucks I wasted on Star Citizen. Never again.
This exactly.
I am very fortunate to have only discovered Pantheon recently, and only Pledged $50 in March, 2022, specifically because of the Road to Alpha. I can imagine falling in love with Pantheon, but losing heart after Pledging $200 over 4 years ago. Requiring that he make his own effort to find and compare progress on the Road to Alpha is not very reassuring. Asking that he do so does not inspire confidence.
In contrast, the https://www.libraryofpantheon.com/alpha-tracker is easy to follow with just a few clicks. Based on my on my reading today, this is my admittedly aggressive criteria for increasing my Pledge:
Inital $50 => Watcher's Pledge
Already Pledged in response to the initial Road to Alpha.
Next $50 => $100 Legate's Pledge
Payday, Wednesday, June 15, to demonstrate that I am serious.
Then, another $50 each as the following three items in the Road to Alpha are COMPLETED:
Road to Alpha says:Network Overhaul: In Progress UPDATED
What it is: Development of a custom network solution to enable performant player concurrency and server-side calculations on the required scale of an MMORPG.
• We have entered into the final phase of VINL integration.
Obviously the most important and critical near-term juncture.
Road to Alpha says:Class Development: In Progress
What it is: Implementation of remaining core class components such as unique resources, mechanics, and UI.
• We are continuing to tune and refine adjustments to our core combat systems as internal playtesting takes place.
• Reminder: due to outstanding dependencies, deployment of the Ranger, Summoner and Druid classes remain on hold until the integration of our new Networking stack is complete.
The game is becoming real at this point. Pre-Alpha game play will be much more tangible.
Road to Alpha says:Zones: In Progress UPDATED
What it is: Develop game zones to support planned content and gameplay. Convert greyboxed zones to sculpted terrain and develop with unique props and environment art passes to realize aesthetic goals.
• Ongoing work in Wild’s End is currently focused on core asset development and construction of Sorhiryth.
• Current emphasis on more fully developing mountainous biomes, shape language and content areas within and surrounding Thronefast, Avendyr’s Pass and the adjacent areas.
By the time these three milestone have been reached, many others have also no doubt been completed. At this point, all doubt about Alpha has been erased. At this point, I will have Pledged $250 for Pathfinder's Pledge, the minimum Pledge that includes Alpha.
When there is a hard announcement date for Alpha, I will then consider another $50 for the Advisor's Pledge, and the Invite to Founder's Conclave.
This is how Visionary Realms will earn my money.
Keep an eye on the forums. As development progresses it is possible (far from certain) that pledge levels that currently include alpha will be changed to include only beta. They will almost surely give advance notice here and a last opportunity to pledge before the change.
I hasten to add that any change will apply only to pledges made after the date of the change and nothing will be taken away from existing pledges.
Praise be to Direct Deposit on Pay Day!
Just upgraded from Watcher to Legate.
Looking forward to the completion of VINL, and my next Pledge upgrade.
Vandraad said: Hopefully early next year instead of late next year..or the year after.
Suddenly it feels like I'm in the Twilight Zone here *cue spooky music*
Are you really more optimistic than I am about how soon we might be in Alpha?
maybe I'm just dreaming... yeah, that must be it!
:)
dorotea said:The newsletter said that maybe we would get another pre-alpha session in the Summer. Not necessarily the final pre-alpha session at that. Early next year is a rather optimistic hope at this point.
'Maybe' and 'in summer'. Quite vague, but that is what we've come to expect.
Whereas if they get a nice fat angel investor soon, we might see more hires, and alpha this Christmas.
*shrug*
The speculation - especially if negative (which is self-defeating for a crowd-funded project) - is pretty pointless when we know it is based on assumptions about a non-regular situation.
June 2022 Producer's Letter wrote:ViNL is due to complete integration in mid-June.
My next paycheck will be Wednesday, June 29, just in time to increase my Pledge another $50.
After ViNL is completed, the pace of future progress will be much easier to evaluate.
If there is a price increase in the near future, I will choose one or two intermediate milestones for upgrading my Pledge. I will not let myself be stampeded by Fear of Missing Out to rush my Pledge for Alpha. I'd rather pay $50 or $100 more later, but continue to hold Intrepid to milestones, than respond to an impending price increase by upgrading earlier without corresponding progress.
EDIT:
Upon rereading the Network Overhaul section of the Road to Alpha, there is more to completing this milestone than just finishing ViNL. Keeping my powder dry.
For those of us who don't let our depression obscure reality, enjoy the latest newsletter where VR announce significant progress made and that pre-alpha backers will be testing much of that progress in game this summer.
Can't wait. It was already a fun game in previous, much less evolved pre-alpha sessions, so it should be a blast this summer.
None of us should have put money in with specific expectations. Let alone pledge and then start demanding change to the way information is passed. The pledge is meant to be a show of support for the project in hopes that eventually a product we actually want to play is released. It's really frustrating to me that so many people seem to think that they bought something and they damn well better have it delivered right now. That being said, I think there is some degree of obligation from VR to give us info. And I think in the last 6-12 months they've made leaps forward in this area. I'm perfectly happy with the flow at the moment. I'd love to see a lot more, but I respect that they have a small team, and that they need to keep secrets. Not just so that when this thing is released that there's no mystery left, but also so that competitor studios don't steal all the good plans and (with much larger dev teams) beat VR to market with it.
On the OP's initial comments: One of the things that VR encourages is that the community be a major factor. Not just here on the forums, but on sites like the Library. They want that partnership, and having those alternative places where good information can be readily obtained fosters the comraderie they desire to carry into the game itself. Frankly I love that they not only encourage but even rely on those partnerships. The more broadly resources of informaton are spread, the more likely the project is exposed to more people, who in turn pledge, which then in turn allows VR to hire more staff and get this thing out the door faster. And if people can best get information from those alternative sources it helps those places thrive.
And to be clear, I dont think the OP is entirely misguided. I respect the idea of pledging in increments as more milestones are met. I just think it's kind of pointless to post the plan here like its some kind of threat or something.
Feyshtey said:None of us should have put money in with specific expectations. Let alone pledge and then start demanding change to the way information is passed. The pledge is meant to be a show of support for the project in hopes that eventually a product we actually want to play is released. It's really frustrating to me that so many people seem to think that they bought something and they damn well better have it delivered right now. That being said, I think there is some degree of obligation from VR to give us info. And I think in the last 6-12 months they've made leaps forward in this area. I'm perfectly happy with the flow at the moment. I'd love to see a lot more, but I respect that they have a small team, and that they need to keep secrets. Not just so that when this thing is released that there's no mystery left, but also so that competitor studios don't steal all the good plans and (with much larger dev teams) beat VR to market with it.
On the OP's initial comments: One of the things that VR encourages is that the community be a major factor. Not just here on the forums, but on sites like the Library. They want that partnership, and having those alternative places where good information can be readily obtained fosters the comraderie they desire to carry into the game itself. Frankly I love that they not only encourage but even rely on those partnerships. The more broadly resources of informaton are spread, the more likely the project is exposed to more people, who in turn pledge, which then in turn allows VR to hire more staff and get this thing out the door faster. And if people can best get information from those alternative sources it helps those places thrive.
And to be clear, I dont think the OP is entirely misguided. I respect the idea of pledging in increments as more milestones are met. I just think it's kind of pointless to post the plan here like its some kind of threat or something.
I agree. I heard those comments and nothing was ever stated emphatically or an actual release date given. I have pieced together many things that affected Pantheon's development from the snippets picked up form various streams. For example, in a previous stream, Joppa and Kyle talked about them being delayed by some deveopment and fine tuning done on Unity's game engine at one point even though they didn't go into detail. Lot's of things can happen when developing a game of this scale and the size of the team and the amount of guaranteed and consistent funds has a great affect on this game's development.
If they had released Pantheon before the refactor, they game would have been a complete mess and folks would here whining about how glitchy the game was and other complaints. They could've done like the other companies and still released a buggy mess of a game to shut up the whiners, but they stood fast on making a better game.
Like I said in a previous post, game development is not for everyone. If you are the impatient type and aren't sincerely interested in this game's development, then you should go enjoy something else. You won't miss the Alpha announement because it will be all over social media.
@Balanz,
I pledged 6 years ago now. I feel justified in my 'investement' given the very open development process and the constant interaction between devs and the community. I obviously want the game to not only come to fruition, but succeed after release; however, in the pessimistic offchance that it doesn't, I'm ok with my $100.00 pledge, if nothing else other than for some great conversations/debates, and downright arguments with some other members that ultimately have the same desire as me (for PRotF to succeed).
We've come a long way (over a relatively long development) but there are a few of us that can pretty much predict what each other's opinions on certain topics will be, and I think that is a perfect example of a small piece that is missing from modern MMOs... knowing your actual community.
Welcome to the community.
(And good point about the road to alpha being more accessible to newer members).
Also - I'm typically very pessimistic... but on the correct side of debates (haha)
sakumi said:In 2018 they said alpha was "later this year" before they really hiked pledge prices. Suckers like me pledged in droves. 4 years later here we are.
Brad said in 2018 (in a PAX East panel not specifically for Pantheon) that Pantheon "should be in Alpha by the end of the year" and he added later (on Reddit?), after he was quoted, "with an emphasis on should. When we're ready trumps everything".
Of course, we *did* get pre-alpha in 2018. Sure, if you want to be pedantic, that isn't "alpha", but since a "pre-alpha" stage of a project is something that never sees public involvement (even "alpha" never used to until it became a proxy for crowd funding at some point) and the pre-alpha was a playable game that actually had testing value, you could also *not* be pedantic and say Pantheon *did* enter "alpha" (pre-alpha) in 2018. A public, but closed, early testing phase.
Yes, I know that pre-alpha and alpha are different in the pledges (were they back then, too? I honestly can't remember). I'm sure some folks were disappointed. Personally, I think that there were quite a few people wanting to just "play the game" and not be involved in testing and that an alpha, that early, would have been a big mistake, whereas the pre-alpha that happened appeared to have a lot of good feedback and worth.
Maybe Brad should have said "pre-alpha" if anything at all, but in a panel not about Pantheon, he would have had to qualify and explain what the heck a pre-alpha was. Maybe he just misspoke a little.
The fact that Pantheon had and has a somewhat unorthadox project life cycle should be a surprise to no one.
*shrug*
If you want to know the details and more context, as usual, there's a good video by Bazgrim Visionary Realms Clarifies Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Alpha Plans
Feyshtey said:
None of us should have put money in with specific expectations. Let alone pledge and then start demanding change to the way information is passed. The pledge is meant to be a show of support for the project in hopes that eventually a product we actually want to play is released. It's really frustrating to me that so many people seem to think that they bought something and they damn well better have it delivered right now. That being said, I think there is some degree of obligation from VR to give us info. And I think in the last 6-12 months they've made leaps forward in this area. I'm perfectly happy with the flow at the moment. I'd love to see a lot more, but I respect that they have a small team, and that they need to keep secrets. Not just so that when this thing is released that there's no mystery left, but also so that competitor studios don't steal all the good plans and (with much larger dev teams) beat VR to market with it.On the OP's initial comments: One of the things that VR encourages is that the community be a major factor. Not just here on the forums, but on sites like the Library. They want that partnership, and having those alternative places where good information can be readily obtained fosters the comraderie they desire to carry into the game itself. Frankly I love that they not only encourage but even rely on those partnerships. The more broadly resources of informaton are spread, the more likely the project is exposed to more people, who in turn pledge, which then in turn allows VR to hire more staff and get this thing out the door faster. And if people can best get information from those alternative sources it helps those places thrive.
And to be clear, I dont think the OP is entirely misguided. I respect the idea of pledging in increments as more milestones are met. I just think it's kind of pointless to post the plan here like its some kind of threat or something.
I am literally in the business of fun. At the store where I work, we sell card games, board games, and pen and paper role playing games. Games people play in person with other people.
I take pride in being able to stand on both sides of the counter. I only sell the things I can identify with buying myself. I am honest and clear with my customers about the upsides and potential downsides of every transaction, including likely delays.
So, after being clean and sober from EverQuest for almost 19 years, I discovered Pantheon. I Pledged: I want Virtual Realms to succeed. I want to be an evangelist, and sell Pantheon to others. That means I need to be able to stand on both sides of that transaction. I need to be clear about benefits and risks of Pledging to Pantheon, and the possible trade offs. I need to explain how I would spend my own money, and why.
I also need to be able to look them in the eye a year or two from now. A calm assurance that patience is required will not be enough. I need to be standing beside them saying, Yes, this is the risk we took. These were our expectations. This is what happened.
I subbed. Initially to forums, shortly after as if it was a normal MMO, then I chose to sub what I would sub for a Premium MMO from a independent studio.
If I couldn't do a nice chunky amount or qualify as an investor, then at least I could add drops in the bucket.
...They say if you can find a stone where rain or water has worn a hole through the center and look through it, you can see the fairy realm or it's a window to another realm. But it has to be natural. Even if you set up a stone up in a place you know drops always fall, intuitively you know it takes a while, and the stone can't move and if you find one!- that's the real deal.