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Community Debate - Boss Mechanics

    • 9115 posts
    March 10, 2022 3:36 AM PST

    Community Debate - What is your most feared Boss mechanic in any Boss fight to date and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 256 posts
    March 10, 2022 3:46 AM PST

    I fear group-wide one-shot mechanics. I fear the resentment and toxicity they can breed, I fear the lack of adaptability they can foster, and I fear damage they can do to pugs and the community as a whole. 

    • 23 posts
    March 10, 2022 3:52 AM PST

    Was never a big fan of Death Touch rotation or heavy RnG mechanics. 

    • 2419 posts
    March 10, 2022 7:11 AM PST

    Any mechanic that developers deliberaty put in to make that NPC or event impossible to defeat because the content past that NPC/event is unfinished and the developers don't want to admit they shipped out a game/expansion that was knowingly unfinished.

    Other than that, nothing.

    • 3852 posts
    March 10, 2022 8:15 AM PST

    I will give a general answer that may be a bit off-topic since the operative word is dislike - maybe even hate - more than fear.  Sorry.

    Any mechanic that turns the encounter into a dance rather than a fight.

    Having to do damage to a boss and any additional enemies, use crowd control strategically, heal group members and focus enemy attention on one or more tanks should be the way an encounter is resolved. Ideally with a significant level of randomness and/or intelligence in how and when the enemies use their own damage, crowd control, heal and taunt abilities, when and even if reinforcements are summoned and the like.

    What I call dance mechanics are when the encounter is not decided based on how well we play our classes (together with some luck - good or bad) but rather by how well we memorize a script and follow it. As in we wipe if Fred doesn't go to a certain box and click it when the boss is at 75% and Sally doesn't click a bookcase within 2.1 seconds of when Fred clicks the box. The running from pixel to pixel on a script routine that FFXIV is absolutely notorious for and not in any good way. 

    In fairness - no FFXIV doesn't have worse scripts than other MMOs but they have so accursed many of them in routine dungeons that *must* be done to progress the main storyline as distinct from other MMOs that tend to save them for raids or special boss encounters.

    • 727 posts
    March 10, 2022 10:15 AM PST

    The self healing ability of the boss.  It causes the growing sense of hope that I am making progress towards the defeat just deflate.  "Hey I'm doing well, I'm making progress I'm.....did all the past effort just disappear because the boss healed himself and now I have to start over with diminished resources?"   

    I much rather the boss start with double or triple the hit points than have some huge self heal that boss can perform itself.

    Extra mobs that heal the boss are fine, even if they spawn into the fight at times. 

     

    • 258 posts
    March 10, 2022 11:02 AM PST

    I dislike bosses that have a reflective shield that one shots you if you hit them. I grin every time I die because of one. lol

    • 413 posts
    March 10, 2022 11:20 AM PST

    Fear is the wrong word, but  The boss with a random AoE teleport to a random location, random climate, random Minions.  Now, Allow a Keeper the abilty gleen details of possible final destinations.

     

    But What woudl stopa group from Inviting a Keeper to Inspect the Boss, provide details, kick the Keeper and insert a traditional Role type player?

    • 2070 posts
    March 10, 2022 11:53 AM PST

    dorotea said: Any mechanic that turns the encounter into a dance rather than a fight.

    I'd say this is what I dislike the most. Not suggesting that I shouldn't have to pay attention to NOT standing in the fire LoL. But having to move to multiple, specific points in the room during the fight is tedious to me.

    StoneFish said: The self healing ability of the boss. 

    I admit this can be pretty demoralizing. But I have to expect that any self-healing Boss VR creates will have some kind of 'tell' that we can learn, and thereafter interrupt so as to demoralize HIM!

    • 67 posts
    March 10, 2022 3:04 PM PST

    The original "Twisters" from FFXIVs Coils Of Bahamut Twintania fight.

    Twisters are invisible land mines that spawn underneath multiple random players (with no inidcation whom) and tracked them around the map (still invisible) before exploding after a short amount of time one-shotting any player caught in the explosion.  Additionally if any two invisible twisters touch they would explode killing both people.

    This was terrible for many reasons, the mechanic tell was very difficult (impossible) to see, the chat log entry was easy to miss, the Twisters were totally invisible, instantly killed anyone and it applied to multiple people.

    • 2138 posts
    March 11, 2022 7:29 AM PST

     

    BigBadAzz1 said:

    I dislike bosses that have a reflective shield that one shots you if you hit them. I grin every time I die because of one. lol

     

    Jothany said:

    I admit this can be pretty demoralizing. But I have to expect that any self-healing Boss VR creates will have some kind of 'tell' that we can learn, and thereafter interrupt so as to demoralize HIM!

     

    Interestingly, I'm not so bothered by random death touches, the need to re-adjust strats or fill in the ranks on the fly is kind of thrilling. What I would like to see is: Knowing that player leadership will optimize  synergies among classes in group construction for multi-group or raid targets, let the Devs design a multi-group/raid encounter that forces the group to act as a group unit without entire raid support (no AE heals, for instance, or AE performance enhancement buffs).  OR- oooh this is devilish as I was thinking of the raid boss name being "non-standard" , the monster name now being "Non-standard finder" where the seasoned and optimized raid force goes in, engages in mini bosses and then when faced with final boss named: "non-standard finder",  the BOSS takes over raid controls and reassigns groups  randomly and ports each group to a series of 3 trials they have to complete as a group before they can recombine for final fight. If one group completes their three trials first, they can find another group that is struggling and help them from afar or in the manner of PK'ing. Only when they have all completed the trials will raid controls be regained and leadership can reassign for the final event which could be hokey and cute.

    That'll teach those Power levelers. That will exonerate those "natural" players that were more about adventure and socialization no matter who or what class and grouped with whomever when they were young and learned- LEARNED- how to function fine in non-standard groups, even all warrior groups- yeah, best time I ever had. Of course we died alot but it was a riot, got the epic piece too. We all improved our bind wound skill that day, Kind of thing. Learned how to fight in the gnomish way. Oh how allegorical like martial arts movies where the monk watches a praying mantis and says ah-ha while developing an exercise regimen on praying mantis moves while balancing a bowl of water on his head, or wax-on, wax-off.

    Anyways, back to original question...I hate reflect damage unless there is a kind of tell, it can even be a short tell. But turnabout is fair play. If I have a reflect damage spell? I should also be able to use it and have it have just as devastating effect- to the shock and awe of my peers and players- if I use it at just the right time. Boss Death touches? I happen to be situationally aware enough to tell when he is about to death touch? I say something and no one bothers to comment or even acknowledge to even sagaciously refute what I am assuming? Then when I cast reflect spell on myself just when the bopss casts Death touch on me and he Death touched himself and dies instantly!- yes, I want that to happen. event over, we won. what's he got for loot. :)


    This post was edited by Manouk at March 11, 2022 7:53 AM PST
    • 690 posts
    March 11, 2022 2:22 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - What is your most feared Boss mechanic in any Boss fight to date and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    When bosses hurt you because they are so big that even walking or running causes damage. I think it makes taking down that boss that much more rewarding when they are that much more destructive than you.

    • 200 posts
    March 12, 2022 3:42 AM PST

    Hey. :)

    I fear nothing. :)

    But there are some mechanics i do not like:

    * oneshot the entire raid because one player made a mistake

    * not avoidable AoE damage

    * not avoidable AoE fear

    * primitive "after X minutes fighting the boss goes crazy"-enrage timers

    * primitive "the healer's mana bar is the enrage timer"-enrage timers :)

    * guaranteed killing abilities of a boss like Vaelastrasz's Burning adrenaline

    * when you have to memorize where you have to stand after X seconds of a fight (many FFXIV bosses)

     

    Cheers

    • 888 posts
    March 12, 2022 11:18 AM PST

    I strongly dislike these elements:

    1. Success requiring the proper execution of a memorized sequence. I prefer dynamic fights that require shifting tactics,
    2. Requiring we frequently and quickly recognize area / specific threats and move to a new location. It sucks for healers especially since we have to be hyper-vigilant on HP bars and constantly having to shift focus to avoid side-scroller-like effects / attacks is annoying.  I don't expect to stand stillthe whole fight,  but constantly shifting is twitch gaming.
    3. Only one way to win. 
    4. Always in the same place. 
    5. Little variation each time. 
    6. Terrain that looks designed  specifically for the fight and doesn't feel like part of an immersive,  believable world. 
    • 454 posts
    March 12, 2022 2:26 PM PST

    My biggest fear is that ALL mob ai will be smarter/faster/more knowledgeable than any group I'm in.  If any mob can analyze my group, my attacks/defense spacing and can react faster than any human.

    • 2 posts
    March 12, 2022 3:48 PM PST

    Most fun mechanic that i remember was blindness, so much fun the first time when your screen goes Black, I was neve sure if your monotor had just died or if  this was some strange loading screen, nope jsut blind lol

     

    • 947 posts
    March 12, 2022 6:57 PM PST

    A couple of people mentioned it, but I hate boss mechanics that are both unavoidable and one-shot a player.  A good example of that is the Death Touch in EQ.

    • 258 posts
    March 13, 2022 11:47 AM PDT
    @Maouk, yeah. An unnanounced reflective shield that you weren't aware how it happened. Most reflective shields you can see but not all. I hate it lol
    • 258 posts
    March 15, 2022 3:34 PM PDT

    .


    This post was edited by Arzoth at March 15, 2022 3:35 PM PDT