Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Should another player be in control of your appearance?

    • 90 posts
    July 16, 2020 7:19 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Final Fantasy? Lol. No thanks. Look up High Fantasy. It tends to be Lord of the Rings style. Obviously 'fantasy' but nothing ridiculous.

    Sorry Final Fantasy fans, but that style is bizarre, outlandish nearly Sci Fi, never mind 'fantasy'. Like most Eastern fantasy, it tends to be way over-the-top and unbelievable.

    You get races with stuck on bunny ears, never mind cosmetic bunny ears lol.

    We all have to suspend our disbelief to some degree, but something less childish and freaky for me, please.

    I'm sure nobody complains about unrealistic armor, that's because they know exactly what they are in for with Final Fantasy. Complaining about unrealistic armor in Final Fantasy would be like complaining about hugely endowed, skantily clad women.

    "You can even make your armor invisible so it looks like a person is just running around in their skivies" Lol. Yeah great.

     

    "less childish" /eyeroll

    Funny how suspension of disbelief always has to stop at the armor aesthetics. Fasntasy used to be about fun and escapism, remember those days, pepperidge farms remembers.

    Like i said if it ends up being like EQ2 people will get sick of the armor aesthetics. It was the biggest complaint in EQ2. People gave up looking for cool looking armor and were just looking for stats. 

    Lots of armor in EQ1 were sought after because of their unique and stylish look like the robe of Nejena, scarab armor, Lambent armor, and rubicite armors. 

    All look what the most popular mods are for games, it's always armor mods. It always the first thing to get changed in the mod community and the most popular. 

     

    If they don't have good armor design then I see no point in having appearance gear. What you got on is what people see. 

    • 303 posts
    July 16, 2020 9:42 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Final Fantasy? Lol. No thanks. Look up High Fantasy.

     

    lmao thats some hardcore fedora tipping

    • 1247 posts
    July 16, 2020 10:19 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Final Fantasy? Lol. No thanks. Look up High Fantasy.

    I really agree.  

    • 810 posts
    July 16, 2020 7:54 PM PDT
    What do you all think of the environmental gear and transmog? I assume it will fit the part, warm cloaks and boots, masks to filter the sand, ash, poison, etc. If you need to wear various special armor to survive the environment, should it really just magically look like your normal armor?

    I think the pirate rogue and the beggar monk will look out of place in a blizzard. While many will claim it is your character and your look, I say it is my world. If you are not dressed to survive the climate you should die in it. If you want to throw immersion out the window then why draw the line at tanking in tuxedos? Is it really different than weathering the blizzard in rags?
    • 3237 posts
    July 17, 2020 8:52 AM PDT

    My understanding is that acclimation will be handled by glyphs, for the most part.  Glyphs do not have a physical appearance that is projected on your character.

    • 2756 posts
    July 17, 2020 9:38 AM PDT

    Jobeson said: What do you all think of the environmental gear and transmog? I assume it will fit the part, warm cloaks and boots, masks to filter the sand, ash, poison, etc. If you need to wear various special armor to survive the environment, should it really just magically look like your normal armor? I think the pirate rogue and the beggar monk will look out of place in a blizzard. While many will claim it is your character and your look, I say it is my world. If you are not dressed to survive the climate you should die in it. If you want to throw immersion out the window then why draw the line at tanking in tuxedos? Is it really different than weathering the blizzard in rags?

    Joppa did mention that *some* gear may have *some* effect on acclimation (one of their stats), but (As 1AD7 said), the majority of acclimation is via non-visible glyphs, so, yes, VR do intend us to be enduring climates with no indication from our clothing.

    What would be really cool if you could collect appearance gear that you could put on *over* your stat gear so you could look the part in a strange climate, even though it wouldn't be what you are 'really' wearing... But appearance gear is evil?...

    • 3 posts
    July 17, 2020 7:04 PM PDT
    I like lore. I like the weapons to reflect the lore. If "Great axe of insanity" does not look like "Great axe of insanity" its just stupid.
    "Hey, yeah we defeated this crazy dragon and got this insane magical axe, i changed it looks to a butterknife but it does the same job and have the same stats".

    Im fine with you having your gear looking like whatever on your screen, but not Come ruin my fantasy world.

    If they add transmogify/glam i do not have the choise to do anything with it. But if they do not add it, you can still equip whatever you want and look the way you want.
    • 810 posts
    July 22, 2020 4:38 AM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Joppa did mention that *some* gear may have *some* effect on acclimation (one of their stats), but (As 1AD7 said), the majority of acclimation is via non-visible glyphs, so, yes, VR do intend us to be enduring climates with no indication from our clothing.

    What would be really cool if you could collect appearance gear that you could put on *over* your stat gear so you could look the part in a strange climate, even though it wouldn't be what you are 'really' wearing... But appearance gear is evil?...

    If Glyphs are the primary / only way people are going to survive climates without changing into climate armor then it would be nice to see people not using the right glyphs and NEEDING climate armor to survive.  I certainly don't go around inspecting everyone. 

    While taking the bait, yes, it appearance gear is evil as it makes people look out of place nomatter what.  You know the same heavy winter furs look would be used by people in an active volcano zone. 

    They are going to have appearance changes, I hope they keep them to the simple adventurer armors since as soon as they add in anything themed it will make the game look silly.  Scuba Steve should not be running around in a blizzard and that is what your idea would lead to. 


    This post was edited by Jobeson at July 22, 2020 4:39 AM PDT
    • 888 posts
    July 28, 2020 1:35 AM PDT

    I really don't understand objecting to transmog and cosmetics based on lore.  Using an in-game feature to change the appearence of an item is basically a form of crafting--you take one group of items and combine them to make something else.  If a crafter combined iron ore into a mace, would we give other players the option to see the mace as iron ore?  In a fantasy game where most players have access to very powerful magic, why is it a problem to transfer the magic essense of an item into a different item?  

     

    There seems to be a failure to understand that people play MMORPGs for different reasons and that different things are important to them.  Some people enjoy creating a character identity and backstory, and that is often enhanced by trying to stick to a specific look and using specific types of equipment.   Aestetic changes are used in service of trying to fulfill the player's vision for the character.  It has nothing to do with being shallow and these players are often just as interested in making sure Pantheon is challenging.

     

    Allowing transmog also serves an important purpose for game development since it allows a game to be realeased with less time spent on creating as much equipement--we can fill in the gaps by taking the stats of one type of equipment and using it on a different type that never really had enough good items developed.    

    • 63 posts
    July 28, 2020 1:52 PM PDT

    I am surprised by the amount of debate over this. I really thought that more people here would be against transmogs, with such a large number of old MMO and EQ players. 

    Personally, I hate the idea of cosmetics. The real heart of the reason I don't like transmogs is that I feel they are duplicitous. I don't like that I might not be seeing anything a player is actually wearing. I feel it is important to be able to judge people's achievements and current power at a glance, without having to /inspect. However, this is just an opinion, and I am not saying anything that hasn't been said here already numerous times.

    So, I will leave it at this: if this really is an important enough issue to so many people, and so many people really do enjoy the aspects of the game that transmogs and other cosmetics bring to it, than I think that my distaste for it doesn't compare to the detriment of so many to not have an aspect of the game which they really enjoy. 

    I do think we should have some compromise though. And no, not in the form of a toggle, because I can see where that invalidates having it at all in the game to those people who want it. All I ask for is that we compromise by not having custom appearances that are too out of alignment with the fantasy world around them. I don't want neon-purple armor set dyes, and I don't want to see a transmog where someone cleverly put together a few niche items to make themselves look just like Aquaman from the comics. 

    I will forfeit my tastes and desire to be able to know everyone’s gear strengths at a glance if the cosmetic crowd agrees that the options should be tasteful and Terminus fantasy appropriate. 

    • 2756 posts
    August 2, 2020 7:07 AM PDT

    @snocap Good gods! How dare you be so reasonable! Hehe

    I have to say, pretty much everyone, even those really wanting transmog/cosmetics/appearance slots/wardrobe/costume/whatever are against stuff that is outlandish, over-the-top or not in-keeping with the lore and aesthetic of Terminus in any way.

    I keep saying it again and again, but I think a lot of those 'against' it or insisting on a toggle wouldn't be if they trusted it could and would be implemented in a sensible way, like you do.

    • 1315 posts
    August 2, 2020 9:12 AM PDT

    Agreeing with you both.  Many of the people who want cosmetics, at least in this subgroup, actually want it in order to tone down outlandish pieces of gear that look bad or just do not fit with the rest of their gear.

    Properly done dyes could leave the 3d mesh alone and recognizable while still being able to tone down miss matching colors that come with gear gather at random.  An "About Body" gear slot like battle robes, surcoats and tabard could also be a general compromise as well though those will often leave many pieces hiddenm but only half of a characters equipment is visible anyway.

    • 38 posts
    August 3, 2020 11:59 PM PDT

    Chalk me up for the toggle group. If it was just up to me, I would prefer no transmogs, however.

    I will probably want to be able to know your gear at glance at least part of the time, although I would probably leave it on intended look most of the time. For RP purposes, it might be fun to toggle on the transmog look now and then.


    This post was edited by Grogoo at August 4, 2020 12:02 AM PDT
    • 228 posts
    August 4, 2020 6:17 AM PDT

    Chalk me up for the no-toggle group, then.

    I, too, prefer no transmogs at all, but that's an easy stand for me to take because I doubt I would ever wear any appearance gear, let alone struggle to obtain it. There is real value in seeing at a glance that somebody wears some very special items, though.

    What matters more to me is that we're all in the same virtual world together. For this illusion to be as complete as possible, I think it's important that we all see the same things. If disposalist shows up in rags because he is role playing a beggar although everybody knows he's one of the richest guys in the server and probably wearing some invaluable bad-ass gear underneath it, it's something we should all realize, so the inevitable jokes are understood by everybody.

    [Edited for spelling]


    This post was edited by Jabir at August 7, 2020 5:01 AM PDT
    • 1428 posts
    August 6, 2020 8:28 PM PDT

    after much deliberation, i'm okay with a no toggle if the cosmetics are bought via cash shop.  if aesthetics are obtained without cash shop, by rallos zek there must be a toggle!  just don't make the base armour dog shh ugly.

    • 370 posts
    August 6, 2020 11:00 PM PDT

    So here is my thought... and I'm going to use EQ, WoW, and FF14 to compare.

     

    In EQ a lot of high end gear was very rare, that meant wearing it made you unique. Even lower level gear had a decent variation in styles. A group of 6 people going into a dungeon, at nearly any level, very rarely looked the same.

     

    WoW and FF14 have set items that all look the same for each class and are fairly easy to obtain. Everyone looks the same. It is and was bland. Transmog/Glamour came out which let people look unique. I love FF14 but I don't want to see that level of glamour customization in Pantheon. I don't need half naked people in gimp masks running around.

     

    Pantheon needs unique gear not part of "sets". There needs to be variation at nearly all levels of the game in gear style. When I join a group I don't want everyone in the exact same gear. So assuming Pantheon achieves this I see no reason to alter the appearance of our outfits.

    I do not think anyone else should have the ability to alter my characters appearance, regardless of which system they use. 

    • 888 posts
    August 7, 2020 10:19 AM PDT
    High-end gear that is iconic is really meant to feel unique (though that's not really practical in MMOs). It's often even made and named as if it were unique. This gives it great recognition but it's also somewhat immersion-breaking. It's like the "I told them we already got one" gag from Monty Python and The Holy Grail.

    A bunch of players running around in identical, named gear all dropped by a specific boss seems absurd. It makes more lore-sense if enchanted shards of equipment were looted instead and had to be crafted into gear.
    • 70 posts
    August 7, 2020 4:24 PM PDT

    Simple, regardless of what types of items are possible to obtain, or how they are obtained:

    I see what I am actually wearing on my screen, and every other player also sees the same items on me that I see.

    If I am wearing a red santa claus cap with white trim and a white ball at the top, guess what I and every other player's screen shows me wearing on my head? Go ahead, I'll wait ...
    (how or why a Santa Claus cap is even available in the game world would be a separate issue)

    People trying to liken the issue of seeing different items on a character than they are actually wearing at the moment, to using their own graphics card options to tint the screen, change the gamma or resolution, are ridiculous. It is a bogus attempt at conflating individual game client control over how your external "4th wall" lense peers into the game world scene, with changing the singular modeled reality of the game world scene itself.

    • 1428 posts
    August 7, 2020 4:50 PM PDT

    aint no shame if every caster is running around in a firiona vie outfit.  20usd lets go!  show some love!  rumor has it 10k purchases within the first week of launch kilsin is going to do a livestream cosplay as firiona!  100k gets us joppa!  rally up!

    • 129 posts
    August 10, 2020 11:08 AM PDT

    Dark Souls has no need for toggles. I don't see why we do here. Armor should look how armor looks. The only toggle that should exist is if they have vanity gear. We should be able to toggle off your vanity gear. if they want an actual feature to "hide" your super epic high level dungeon raid drop so you can stealth pwn some nubs, then they should enable cloaks that cover most of the body that are not part of vanity.