Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Should another player be in control of your appearance?

    • 724 posts
    July 11, 2020 8:09 AM PDT

    eunichron said:

    I would rather see an entire server of 2,000 people running around in 2,000 ridiculous costumes than for anyone to be able to dictate how other players express themselves.

    See, this is where the argument is going in circles.

    A TOGGLE IN MY GAME CLIENT IS NOT DICTATING HOW YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.

    Was that loud enough to understand? ;) You can wear what you want. You can dress as silly as you wish to. All freedom to you! And the toggle in my game client does not take that freedom away from you! So where is the problem???

    (sorry eunichron, not arguing with you directly, just in general for all the people who say that a toggle in someone else's game client somehow limits their freedom to express themselves...I absolutely really don't get it)

    • 1479 posts
    July 11, 2020 8:31 AM PDT

    Sarim said:

    eunichron said:

    I would rather see an entire server of 2,000 people running around in 2,000 ridiculous costumes than for anyone to be able to dictate how other players express themselves.

    See, this is where the argument is going in circles.

    A TOGGLE IN MY GAME CLIENT IS NOT DICTATING HOW YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.

    Was that loud enough to understand? ;) You can wear what you want. You can dress as silly as you wish to. All freedom to you! And the toggle in my game client does not take that freedom away from you! So where is the problem???

    (sorry eunichron, not arguing with you directly, just in general for all the people who say that a toggle in someone else's game client somehow limits their freedom to express themselves...I absolutely really don't get it)

     

    The issue here beeing some people consider the toggle to offer someone else the control over how their character look, while other consider the appearance tab as a way to enforce irrealism or silly outfits (which is basically an hyperbole here as most outfits in pantheon will be regular, and most people dress just to match and use favorite skins more than "to look silly").

     

    There will hardly be any common ground between player as it's either with or without. I personally tend for the first one as I would use appearance tabs to use cool sets that I farmed over a long time instead of having no use for them, but it's my own opinion.

    • 273 posts
    July 11, 2020 8:38 AM PDT

    Sarim said:

    A TOGGLE IN MY GAME CLIENT IS NOT DICTATING HOW YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.

    I understand that, but I think the piece you're missing, which I tried to allude to in the second half of my post (that you cut out of the quote), is that such an idea flies in the face of Terminus being a world crafted by VR which we inhabit. That idea of Terminus being its own living world itself is so central to the success of a game like this that I would oppose anything, up to and including a vanity toggle, that contradicts it.

    There's no question at this point that there will be cosmetic/vanity items in the game. How they will function is still up in the air, but I think it's a safe bet that they will not be the same kind of flamboyant and immersion breaking type of cosmetics we see in other games today.

    Should VR go that route of selling outlandish cosmetics, at launch or in the future, I'll simply not play the game, the same way I simply don't play other games that have done such things.


    This post was edited by eunichron at July 11, 2020 8:39 AM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    July 11, 2020 9:16 AM PDT

    Sarim said:

    A TOGGLE IN MY GAME CLIENT IS NOT DICTATING HOW YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.

    Was that loud enough to understand? ;) You can wear what you want. You can dress as silly as you wish to. All freedom to you! And the toggle in my game client does not take that freedom away from you! So where is the problem???

    You're clearly not reading my posts if you don't get it. I've explained so many times in so many ways.

    A toggle is indeed stopping how you express yourself *to others*. That is the whole point of portraying a role. It is portrayed *to others*.

    Not *some* others, but *all* others.

    It is very rare for people to worry about their *self* image in a game. I know it happens, but it's not what we are talking about here. Not many care about playing a role to themselves.

    If some (50%? 10%? 99%? Who knows?) choose to see something other than the image I have designed for my character, then the whole thing is spoiled/tainted/ruined. If I have no idea if people are seeing my carefully designed persona or the mishmash of armor underneath (that I have not designed and I don't even know what it looks like - why would I when I have *appearance* items).

    Also, there is the bizarre confusion of some seeing it and some not.

    You may disagree that portraying a role is important. In a role-playing game... Sure. Up to you. But it *is* important to everyone I know that would use appearance slots, so if there *are* appearance slots, the toggle makes it pointless, so VR may as well not bother with the feature.

    You may disagree that *some* people seeing under appearance slots does *ruin* the feature. Sure, ok. I'm just telling you it does for me and most people I know that would use the feature. You're telling me from the point of view of someone who doesn't understand the use of the feature, so maybe you might admit we know how we feel about it?

    You may disagree that the feelings of those that would use appearance slots matter as much as the feelings of those that don't want to. Sure, ok, I can understand than and we can agree to disagree.

    You may think that though /inspect allows people to see through appearance gear, isn't 'convenient' enough and that the convenience of those people that must know what my stats are is more important than the integrity of the shared experience and the intended use of appearance slots. Sure ok.

    I just want to come to an agreement and it's hard to do when some won't even accept there *is* an issue with the toggle or they pick an issue that doesn't exist to argue.


    This post was edited by disposalist at July 11, 2020 9:30 AM PDT
    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 9:27 AM PDT

    Sarim said:

    A TOGGLE IN MY GAME CLIENT IS NOT DICTATING HOW YOU CAN EXPRESS YOURSELF.

    Was that loud enough to understand? ;) You can wear what you want. You can dress as silly as you wish to. All freedom to you! And the toggle in my game client does not take that freedom away from you! So where is the problem???

    The problem is: you don‘t see that we are going to be immersing and exploring in their world, as in VR’s world of Terminus. It’s not going to be Syrif’s world nor Sarim’s world. You say others wouldn’t see your toggle, but VR would have to, so what you say is false. Again, this is their world; a tiny minority of ppl complaining/wanting their own version of a toggle is absurd. Just because I want a gigantic fire breathing dragon above my shoulders at all times via my “personal toggle” does not mean I should be able to do that. And, for example, if a char does not want a helm graphic, then that char will likely need to quest and adventure for a headpiece without a head graphic such as Circlet of Mist or Helm of Invisibility etc. There will be a tremendous diversity of gear to explore that is appropriate to the world. In Pantheon, if you are going for appearance, then that should be something you work toward (not given to you by a button like in WoW). And finally, this “toggle” is already in mainstream, so if a minority want that they can play a game like WoW, that feature is available there. For the many people who don’t want such features, Pantheon is the alternative to not have that nonsense - imo. And it’s about time there is an mmorpg available without appearance toggles in their world. This is Terminus (Azeroth should stay in Azeroth lol). 


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 9:36 AM PDT
    • 1618 posts
    July 11, 2020 12:42 PM PDT

    My in-game persona matters to me. I do not want anyone else to decide how I appear to them.

    No one else should be able to decide what clothes I am wearing.

    No one else should be able to decide what gender I appear as to them.

    No one else should be able to decide what race I appear to as them.

    No one else should be able to decide how tall I appear to them.

    No one else should be able to decide what color my skin appears to them.

    Its my character, not theirs. If they don't like my appearance, they can stay away from me.

    I choose who my character will be, not you.

    I play games to get away from modern societal requirements. Don't bring your personal need to control the appearance of others into my entertainment.

    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 1:21 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    My in-game persona matters to me. I do not want anyone else to decide how I appear to them.

    I choose who my character will be, not you.

    I play games to get away from modern societal requirements. Don't bring your personal need to control the appearance of others into my entertainment.

    Choices matter --> You choose your gender, not toggle between male or female. You choose between a helm with a graphic or a head piece/helm with no head graphic (Circlet of Mist etc), not toggle off and on. Pantheon will be immersive and at times group-play will be critical. Just like anything in Pantheon - if you are going for appearance, that should require work via questing, adventuring, exploring, strategizing, and/or grouping at times (not given to you by the click of a toggle button like in WoW). Thus, a toggle is contrary to the tenets of the vision for Pantheon. And most importantly: no one will force you where to be. You will have the choice to be in Pantheon, play WoW, play Elder Scrolls, or any other on the market. What I do know is that features in these mmorpg's will vary greatly from each other. Some may like one mmo while others may not like the other; where you decide to be will be a personal choice. VR is creating their world, and from what I have seen and studied from VR's vision, the features in Pantheon will be quite different from those like toggle widely found in WoW and the like. In my view, Pantheon being done as the clear alternative to mainstream is what myself and many find appealing. 


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 1:52 PM PDT
    • 3237 posts
    July 11, 2020 2:10 PM PDT

    As it stands, the hypothetical toggle being discussed is planned for Pantheon.  From the FAQ:

     

    4.8 What kind of equipment visualization can we expect to see on characters?

    The game world will contain thousands if not tens of thousands of items.  That said, there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players.  What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished, how high level you are, and what adventures you have undertaken to inspire others.  Cosmetic gear will also be available, with players selecting how they want to view your character by toggling between adventure and cosmetic.

     

    The toggle being discussed throughout this thread does not exist in WoW or any other MMO, to my knowledge.  Seeing that Pantheon emphasizes a shared experience and the idea of embracing the community of players alongside us, there is certainly a good argument that the toggle in question should not exist here.  It is antithetical to the core values of Pantheon.  It appears that some folks are conflating the toggle with an appearance system, for whatever reason.  They are not the same thing.  It's impossible for the community to have any real on-topic dialogue until VR clarifies the differences between adventuring gear and cosmetic gear.  Until that happens, threads like this will always be derailed by unnecessary fearmongering and/or off-topic nonsense.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at July 11, 2020 2:20 PM PDT
    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:04 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    As it stands, the hypothetical toggle being discussed is planned for Pantheon.  From the FAQ:

     

    4.8 What kind of equipment visualization can we expect to see on characters?

    The game world will contain thousands if not tens of thousands of items.  That said, there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players.  What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished, how high level you are, and what adventures you have undertaken to inspire others.  Cosmetic gear will also be available, with players selecting how they want to view your character by toggling between adventure and cosmetic.

    The toggle being discussed throughout this thread does not exist in WoW or any other MMO, to my knowledge.  Seeing that Pantheon emphasizes a shared experience and the idea of embracing the community of players alongside us, there is certainly a good argument that the toggle in question should not exist here.  It is antithetical to the core values of Pantheon.  It appears that some folks are conflating the toggle with an appearance system, for whatever reason.  They are not the same thing.  It's impossible for the community to have any real on-topic dialogue until VR clarifies the differences between adventuring gear and cosmetic gear.  Until that happens, threads like this will always be derailed by unnecessary fearmongering and/or off-topic nonsense.

    Yes, I can obv see working on an adventure set of gear and a cosmetic set of clothing for obv different situations (such as raiding vs a wedding or ceremony or guild meeting etc). How we change clothing between the two though remains to be seen and decided on. When it goes into a tiny minority demanding their own personal toggles for wanting a toggle "for this" and wanting a toggle "for that," which I have seen over the years, that's where I think it's important to realize that we will be in their (VR's) world. Regardless if it's in WoW (the ones I mentioned are), I'd think not to go that route. Fyi the OP was referring to appearance and how we are seen by others in original post, hence the appearance part of discussion~ Anyway ad7, I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth futher, but good post.


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 3:06 PM PDT
    • 18 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:19 PM PDT

    Syrif said:

    Choices matter --> You choose your gender, not toggle between male or female. You choose between a helm with a graphic or a head piece/helm with no head graphic (Circlet of Mist etc), not toggle off and on. Pantheon will be immersive and at times group-play will be critical. Just like anything in Pantheon - if you are going for appearance, that should require work via questing, adventuring, exploring, strategizing, and/or grouping at times (not given to you by the click of a toggle button like in WoW). Thus, a toggle is contrary to the tenets of the vision for Pantheon. And most importantly: no one will force you where to be. You will have the choice to be in Pantheon, play WoW, play Elder Scrolls, or any other on the market. What I do know is that features in these mmorpg's will vary greatly from each other. Some may like one mmo while others may not like the other; where you decide to be will be a personal choice. VR is creating their world, and from what I have seen and studied from VR's vision, the features in Pantheon will be quite different from those like toggle widely found in WoW and the like. In my view, Pantheon being done as the clear alternative to mainstream is what myself and many find appealing. 

     

    You keep throwing World of Warcraft under the bus on this particular topic, but it is in fact exactly how you have described your desire for appearance gear in Pantheon. There is no toggle for other people's appearance, nor is anything just given to you for appearance. If you want any equipment for transmog/appearance purposes then you have to personally go out and loot said item, and your character must also be able to equip said item (for instance, a warlock or mage cannot transmog their robe into a piece of plate armor, nor can a mage transmog his robe to a warlock specific robe and vice versa). You can choose to not show your helmet or cloak if you visit the transmog NPC in major cities, but even Everquest has the option to not display your helmet.  This is one thing I believe WoW has done right. With that said, I am very much anti toggle for the transmog/appearance items. I think character expression is important, but should be earned in regards to this topic. 

    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:32 PM PDT

    @Hurlicane Thanks for noticing I've thrown WoW under the bus. Ppl tend to do that :) Just as I've said, the universal hide helm or cloak is in WoW (and I suppose EQ-Live?) Ew EQ-Live, now that's not surprising! ;) Anyway, I am against that. Don't want your helm shown? Then quest, group, or adventure for something like a Circlet of Mist without a head graphic. The choice to wear an item with a head piece graphic or an item without a head piece graphic is yours - imo.

    That being said, I’d imagine the illusionist (the enchanter class) may have some altering tricks up their sleeve. Will these tricks be temporary? Oh my, what could they be? :) We shall see.


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 3:46 PM PDT
    • 18 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:47 PM PDT

    Syrif said:

    @Hurlicane Thanks for noticing I've thrown WoW under the bus. :) Just as I've said, the hide helm or cloak is in WoW (and I suppose EQ-Live?) Ew EQ-Live, now that's not surprising! ;) Anyway, I am against that. Don't want your helm shown? Then quest, group, or adventure for something like a Circlet of Mist without a head graphic. The choice to wear a head piece with a graphic or not is yours - imo.

     

    Pretty sure you've had the option to hide your helmet on EQ since around the PoP era. Every helmet in WoW has a graphic, it is silly to make helmets without a graphic imo. I just find it odd that you point out this little part of the comment, and fail to acknowledge that you are wrong in what you have been saying. Have you actually played the game, or is it just too "mainstream" for you so resort to lying about it?


    This post was edited by Hurlicane at July 11, 2020 3:58 PM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:48 PM PDT

    Syrif said:

    @Hurlicane Thanks for noticing I've thrown WoW under the bus. :) Just as I've said, the hide helm or cloak is in WoW (and I suppose EQ-Live?) Ew EQ-Live, now that's not surprising! ;) Anyway, I am against that. Don't want your helm shown? Then quest, group, or adventure for something like a Circlet of Mist without a head graphic. The choice to wear a head piece with a graphic or not is yours - imo.

    That being said, I’d imagine the illusionist (the enchanter class) may have some altering tricks up their sleeve. Will these tricks be temporary? Oh my, what could they be? :) We shall see.

    Hidehelm or hidecloack is actually an argument for *not* having the appearance toggle.

    The hidehelm and hidecloak functions hide those because a player doesn't want them showing *to anyone* and it is generally accepted that that is fine and others shouldn't be able to see those helms of cloaks.

    But for some reason, appearance gear that hides other pieces of gear (behind the look of another) needs a toggle to disable.

    *shrug* Weird logic.

    Also it's not just in WoW. It's been in just about every MMORPG (and single player RPG) for a long time.  There was even a hide shoes (for Hobbits) and hide shoulderpads (for those hating the look of those generally ridiculous bits) in some. In fact LOTRO had appearance slots as well as all those 'hide' options and no toggle and no one minded...

    Re. the common acceptance of hidehelm and hidecloak: I can only imagine that people think being able to show your face and your arse to everyone is more important than choosing what other gear locations look like to others? Boggles me.


    This post was edited by disposalist at July 11, 2020 3:51 PM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:49 PM PDT

    Hurlicane said:

    Syrif said:

    @Hurlicane Thanks for noticing I've thrown WoW under the bus. :) Just as I've said, the hide helm or cloak is in WoW (and I suppose EQ-Live?) Ew EQ-Live, now that's not surprising! ;) Anyway, I am against that. Don't want your helm shown? Then quest, group, or adventure for something like a Circlet of Mist without a head graphic. The choice to wear a head piece with a graphic or not is yours - imo.

    Pretty sure you've had the option to hide your helmet on EQ since around the PoP era. Every helmet in WoW has a graphic, it is silly to make helmets without a graphic imo. I just find it odd that you point out his little part of the comment, and fail to acknowledge that you are wrong in what you have been saying. Have you actually played the game, or is it just too "mainstream" for you so resort to lying about it?

    Actually, it may be a coincidence, but I stopped playing EQ after PoP because it did start taking lots of cues from WoW and other modern MMORPGs...

    But not every feature of every MMORPG since classic EQ was 'wrong'. Syrif is just quite militant about it ;^)


    This post was edited by disposalist at July 11, 2020 4:04 PM PDT
    • 3237 posts
    July 11, 2020 3:54 PM PDT

    I got the impression that Znushu (OP) was in favor of having an appearance slot system, but not the hypothetical toggle that is associated with it here.  The reason for this is simple; it ultimately comes down to a bastardization of player agency and inconsistency in logic.  If you're going to give me the option of hiding my helmet, which is a purely aesthetic choice for how I want my character to be perceived in the world, do not undermine my decision by allowing other players to simply disable that choice.  Whether or not another person wants to see the face of my character is irrelevant.  When players sign up to play in an open-world experience, they should be doing so with the strict understanding that they will be sharing the world with other, real/live players.  We aren't talking about a single-player game that is designed with a solo/exclusive experience in mind.  The world is going to be full of other real players who have thoughts, feelings, wants, and desires of their own.  We all get to control a character that will have an influence on the world.  Self-expression is not something you deactivate with a switch.  We should be enhancing player agency rather than trying to sterilize it.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at July 11, 2020 4:01 PM PDT
    • 18 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:02 PM PDT

    I think Syrif and I are actually on the same page on this topic, I just don't think wrongfully using WoW to fit his argument is helpful because he is arguing FOR how they treat transmog/appearance items.

    • 273 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:05 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    As it stands, the hypothetical toggle being discussed is planned for Pantheon.  From the FAQ:

     

    4.8 What kind of equipment visualization can we expect to see on characters?

    The game world will contain thousands if not tens of thousands of items.  That said, there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players.  What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished, how high level you are, and what adventures you have undertaken to inspire others.  Cosmetic gear will also be available, with players selecting how they want to view your character by toggling between adventure and cosmetic.

    I think it's worded very awkwardly, but to me that sounds like players themselves will be able to choose when and what gear is displayed on their character, not that other players will be able to toggle cosmetics on/off. Mount & Blade 2 does this by having different item slots for combat armor and civilian clothing, with combat armor being worn outside of towns and on the battlefield, but the player can choose which set is worn when in towns and cities.

    • 2756 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:06 PM PDT

    Hurlicane said:

    I think Syrif and I are actually on the same page on this topic, I just don't think wrongfully using WoW to fit his argument is helpful because he is arguing FOR how they treat transmog/appearance items.

    It's weird because WoW, as you say, does do it in a reasonable manner. It's still not a great example to hold up, though, because of how outlandish and over-the-top the gear looks hehe.

    If you say you want transmog like WoW, people will freak out about the ridiculous gear styling in WoW... not appreciate you mean the technical mechanics of it.

    • 18 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:10 PM PDT

    Yeah... I can see what you mean, but I am definitely not arguing for gear to look anything like the armor in WoW, I just think the mechanics of the transmog system are spot on. If you inspect a player you can mouseover each item and see exactly what piece of gear it actually is and what the stats of each item are.


    This post was edited by Hurlicane at July 11, 2020 4:12 PM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:18 PM PDT

    eunichron said:

    oneADseven said:

    As it stands, the hypothetical toggle being discussed is planned for Pantheon.  From the FAQ:

    4.8 What kind of equipment visualization can we expect to see on characters?

    The game world will contain thousands if not tens of thousands of items.  That said, there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players.  What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished, how high level you are, and what adventures you have undertaken to inspire others.  Cosmetic gear will also be available, with players selecting how they want to view your character by toggling between adventure and cosmetic.

    I think it's worded very awkwardly, but to me that sounds like players themselves will be able to choose when and what gear is displayed on their character, not that other players will be able to toggle cosmetics on/off. Mount & Blade 2 does this by having different item slots for combat armor and civilian clothing, with combat armor being worn outside of towns and on the battlefield, but the player can choose which set is worn when in towns and cities.

    Awkward is right, though I think it is clear (after a couple of reads hehe) that they mean players select how *others* look, unfortunately.

    The bit I still don't really get is the reasoning. I don't understand the "there can never be a 1:1 ratio between what you are specifically wearing and how you appear to other players". Not sure what that is getting at and also "What you’re wearing does show off what you’ve accomplished" can still be satisfied by appearance slot gear, which 1) Isn't just 'cosmetic', it is also 'real' gear used for it's look and 2) Could be more difficult to obtain and more recently obtained than the stat gear you are persisiting in wearing because of the stats.

    VR want gear to be meaningful. There is no reason whatsoever appearance/transmog/whatever couldn't be implemented in a way that is totally additive to that, not negative in any way.

    You could even restrict appearance/transmog gear to being of at least the same or greater rarity/power/level/whatever as the gear it is 'covering' and still give those wanting appearance slots the variety and choice they are after and more than meet the 'prestige', 'rags to riches' *and* include the 'I want to exclude people based on their gear power' crowd.

    • 3237 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:24 PM PDT

    The biggest issue is that there is a difference between "adventuring gear" and "cosmetic gear"  --  we know that both would be earned in-game, and that according to the FAQ (and later clarification found on this thread)  --  players would be able to leverage a toggle to determine how other players appear on their screen.  You can view other players in their adventuring gear, or in their cosmetic gear.  So what is cosmetic gear?  Well, this was clarified shortly after the FAQ revision was posted.

    Aradune said:

    My thoughts on what 'cosmetic' items are:

    Primarily they are items to change your characters appearance in a way that doesn't relate to combat -- they're for RP'ing and such, and are very important to many people in the Pantheon community.

    They *could* also, post-launch, evolve into horizontal paths of advancement and have non-combat related stats and attributes.

    Unfortunately, this is why it's very important that VR provides some sort of update to the plan.  In accordance with the FAQ and later follow-up clarification, it stands to reason, then, that players could:


    Equip cosmetic gear (as defined above) and then appear to be using non-combat gear while in-combat.  That is how it is worded.  It sounds like I would need to adjust the toggle depending on where I'm at in order to achieve any reasonable sense of immersion.  If I'm in town, I would need to have cosmetic gear toggled on.  If I'm out in the wilds, I would need to have it toggled off.  If I have cosmetic gear toggled ON while out in the wild, that would mean I would see other players adventuring in tuxedos or whatever other forms of "non-combat roleplaying gear" that might be implemented.  This kind of toggle is unprecedented in MMO's and makes the entire concept of cosmetic gear in Pantheon extremely undesirable.  Imagine having to manually toggle between adventure/cosmetic mode every time you enter/leave town in order to achieve reasonable immersion.  Nobody wants that and there is a snowball's chance in hell that VR would actually launch with these hypothetical conditions.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at July 11, 2020 4:44 PM PDT
    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:24 PM PDT

    Hurlicane said:

    Pretty sure you've had the option to hide your helmet on EQ since around the PoP era. Every helmet in WoW has a graphic, it is silly to make helmets without a graphic imo. I just find it odd that you point out this little part of the comment, and fail to acknowledge that you are wrong in what you have been saying. Have you actually played the game, or is it just too "mainstream" for you so resort to lying about it?

    Ah.. PoP.. not surprising. I am familiar with the Classic Trilogy (you know, the era of EQ Brad was a part of/made and that some VR devs played). Many would agree Classic Trilogy and PoP onward are two different games. And hmm, I don’t think I lied about WoW.. I have mentioned the hide helm with graphic feature several times.. that’s in WoW I believe. I could honestly care less about WoW, is garbage imo. Also, I don’t think it’s silly to make head pieces without a particular graphic (Brad obv didn't either) so long as they are world appropriate like a Circlet of Mist, Helm of Invisibility etc. Obviously, some will be going for appearances. There will be thousands of items to explore. I’d think working towards char’s appearance vs a transmog or a click of a button lies within the tenets of Pantheon. Well then, have fun! Thx for chat. 


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 4:38 PM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:40 PM PDT

    znushu said:

    I'm just curious what everyones stances are to this question as there seems to be divide in the community in this simple question.


    I for one don't believe another player should be in control in how you are percieved, regardless of it being just armor or race.
    How you look like to yourself should be the same for how you look like to other players, regardless. This is a World after all, am I wrong?

    I want to see what gear you are actually wearing. If you want to hide your helmet or if VR includes items that change appearances of items (ugh...) I don't want to see any of that.

    And the reason I think this way is because it’s the only way to make both people happy. I think being able to hide your helmet or other pieces and/or change the appearance should not be included in the game. But so many people insist on it, then fine let them have it, but let me look at what I want to look at which is the real armor.

    • 18 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:49 PM PDT

    @Syrif

    If you haven't bothered to read my explanation of how you are wrong or simply just don't want to acknowledge it that is fine. Simple fact is, the way you are describing wanting to change your appearance in Pantheon is how WoW does it. No cash shop items, not just a simple click of a button, you have to earn it. Only difference is there arent appearance slots, once you collect the item out in the world you must visit an NPC in a major city to apply its appearance to your gear, rather than changing it on the fly.

    • 1247 posts
    July 11, 2020 4:55 PM PDT

    Hurlicane said:

    @Syrif

    Simple fact is, the way you are describing wanting to change your appearance in Pantheon is how WoW does it. 

    You have officially lost me, Lol sorry. I do not care to entertain that anymore - reread and figure it out and make what you want of it *shrug*, thank you. 

    Add to my opposition to the helmet/cloak hide toggle (which most definitely IS in classic WoW RIGHT NOW and had been in WoW-Live for many years), imo I am against changing appearance like this in WoW as well:

    Hurlicane said:

    once you collect the item out in the world you must visit an NPC in a major city to apply its appearance to your gear, rather than changing it on the fly.


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 11, 2020 10:18 PM PDT