Qulash said:
Do I enjoy trade skilling ?...lets split it in two..Do I enjoy crafting ? ...Yes!
Do I enjoy selling my crafted items to the public ? ...No
Why not ? Too much competition from other players and dropped loot. Before you know it the Elite Armour of Indestructability is for sale at a 100 armorers.
Definitely agree. Also, it has to be worth the effort and time. If all the dungeon and raid gear is better, what's the point?
Trade Skills are vital to MMO's in my opinion and I thoroughly enjoy mastering Herbalism and Alchemy! In most MMO's I've played Alchemy has almost always played a huge role in the game whether its players using a health potion in that critical moment right before you die (saving you from an agonizing walk back to your corpse) or using a spell power or attack power potion to give you that boost you need to finish the job. Players from all around the land usually find some need for Alchemy. I'm always happy to offer some of my stock for a price. And if you happen to know me and we're close friends then I will even lend you some for free. Side trade skills that I also love to master are Fishing and Cooking. Some would even call me a Master Baiter >.>
In Project Gorgon I think they have done a good job with making a complex tradeskill system, but it is grindy AF. If done well, tradeskilling can add a lot of value to the game. If done wrong, it will be summarily dismissed out of hand. Hopefully Pantheon has a fun, rewarding, complex, interdependant tradeskill system in place.
Beefcake said:Definitely agree. Also, it has to be worth the effort and time. If all the dungeon and raid gear is better, what's the point?
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Tradeskills are a lot more than just "gear."
I do enjoy tradeskilling but the results need to feel worth the time commitment otherwise you are left wondering what is the point. It is a great feeling to have made something you or someone else can get real use out of. I especially enjoy finding ingredients out in the world and making food out of them. For some reason it hightens the immersive feeling of the world for me.
Usually scribing. Trade-skills seem to come secondary to combat XP and are usually a necessary evil for me. I would love to be able to have the option to toggle combat to translate to trade-skill XP, but that is a losing battle with people that actually grind trade-skill XP. I always thought that I am doing the game time let me choose what xp bucket the xp should go into. Shrug, but that will not happen, so I will be grinding a trade-skill along with others.
It would be nice if it can be done as a batch process. I.e. you need x and 2y and 3z so you get your 20x, 40y and 60z and let it run to create your batch of 20 in say 20 minutes. In those 20 minutes I could have bio'ed, eaten, checked email, was responsive in guild chat. Maybe just kicked off the batch run and go to bed. Again player choice could happen here, some people like to be interactive with the process or you have a batch option. But, again that is just wishful thinking.
Anything that revolves around buffs ie; potions are my jam. I find out where to find the mats and how to craft them and I craft like a sweat shop worker in china. This ensures I have buffs for my group and raid members that can help prevent wipes or reduce the cooldown time between wipes and fights. I also find wheres best to sell them and sit there for hours on end selling.
I do like to tradeskill.... but, I feel it should be a blend of adventuring and crafting... I don't think just making a steel sword should be what people aspire to... I think there should be parts of mobs that can go into a recipe that can make things just as good if not better then drops.... I would also like to be able to choose to add str or agility or whatever into the things I make... Someone might want str somone may need dex and so on....I would like to see it very customizable
I hope that makes sence... just a regular steel sword could be ok... but if I mixed a fang from the spider boss and steel I come up with an item that might as well dropped off a boss.... but you need adventures to get that stuff and you need crafters to make.... It would aslo be cool if we could add the drops off the bosses into our regular recipes and see what we get....
don't get me wrong... you need the regular recipes to lvl up but the truly grand recipes that stand out have both adventuring and crafters have to make and be a big part of
Plus what if you droped that same fang into a fishing pole or put in some alchemy recipe let the possibilites be endless
That is the only way I could see crafetr gear be equall to or better then dropped....
My thoughts anyway
I like it as something worthwhile to do when I'm not in the mood for all the adventure excitement. But only if it requires more from me than time. Vanguard's crafting system is the best I have tried.
I prefer to produce stuff that doesn't naturally drop from mobs. In Vanguard I was a Mineralogist who ended up building houses for people, and eventually a hall for my guild. Getting there involved a lot of hard work, but also recipies and building materials that could only be obtained thru questing, camping and group adventuring. One of my best Vanguard memories is with a group of guildies risking their lives to get me a corner stone for the guild hall.
Yes I enjoy trade skills. I do wish trade skills were independent classes, meaning a player choosing to be a blacksmith would be just a blacksmith and need an adventurer for dangerous areas, and the adventure needs the blacksmith for gear ect. Resources and crafted goods should be sought after and rare, unlike the over abundance that happens when every character is adventures-harvester-crafter, multiplied by number of character slots.
HemlockReaper said:Yes I enjoy trade skills. I do wish trade skills were independent classes, meaning a player choosing to be a blacksmith would be just a blacksmith and need an adventurer for dangerous areas, and the adventure needs the blacksmith for gear ect. Resources and crafted goods should be sought after and rare, unlike the over abundance that happens when every character is adventures-harvester-crafter, multiplied by number of character slots.
Hmm I like the concept of crafters and gatherers being separate 'entities' from adventuring characters. Would feel more 'special' and meaningful, but it might become cumbersome.
It's nice to be a blacksmith and be able to perform repairs while adventuring, for example, or to skin your kills rather than wait for others to bring you dead animals.
I quite enjoyed managing followers in SWTOR - they were the gatherers and crafters, if I recall correctly, and could be sent on tasks/missions of varying lengths to gather/craft stuff for you. I guess that meets the 'separate entity' requirement, but completely removes any effort to *do* the actually gathering/crafting.
Hmm. Worthy of some more thought. I wonder what @Nephele has to say about such a concept?
disposalist said:HemlockReaper said:Yes I enjoy trade skills. I do wish trade skills were independent classes, meaning a player choosing to be a blacksmith would be just a blacksmith and need an adventurer for dangerous areas, and the adventure needs the blacksmith for gear ect. Resources and crafted goods should be sought after and rare, unlike the over abundance that happens when every character is adventures-harvester-crafter, multiplied by number of character slots.
Hmm I like the concept of crafters and gatherers being separate 'entities' from adventuring characters. Would feel more 'special' and meaningful, but it might become cumbersome.
It's nice to be a blacksmith and be able to perform repairs while adventuring, for example, or to skin your kills rather than wait for others to bring you dead animals.
I quite enjoyed managing followers in SWTOR - they were the gatherers and crafters, if I recall correctly, and could be sent on tasks/missions of varying lengths to gather/craft stuff for you. I guess that meets the 'separate entity' requirement, but completely removes any effort to *do* the actually gathering/crafting.
Hmm. Worthy of some more thought. I wonder what @Nephele has to say about such a concept?
The crux of SWG was that crafters were a class that you devoted points to instead of combat classes. All good gear was from crafting an not from drops, until the very end there were virtually no npc drops of note and items decayed. And the kicker One Character Per Server!! There was no "I'll have my alt do that trade skill" if you wanted to craft thats what you did on that server. You could have some combat skills as a crafter but very few. It was much more efficient to put all your points into crafting and master two trees.
No game before or since has crafting been as powerful, integral or valuable as it was in SWG PRE-NGE (NGE SWG was a shitshow WoW clone that can die in a fire).
yes, as something to do when I dont have groups, or cannot solo. Materials are things I can roll on or loot up if I am with a group while hunting or questing, if questing the satisfaction comes from being able to do two things at once, do quest and get TS stuff "for later" when groups are not available or whenI dont want to group and have to work on trade skills.
Trade skills should not be work, I want to trade skillfor myself, or to give away extra stuff, but never a driver to be a seller or a marketer, because everyone can be a master eventually. Its like a MLM in that aspect, constantly requiring newbies that need the higher end crafted stuff provided its better than dropped stuff. However I do think there should be uique and special items that can only be made for the sole use of the crafter from mastery in a skill. the long rewrd for the long road taken kind of thing.
Trasak said:No game before or since has crafting been as powerful, integral or valuable as it was in SWG PRE-NGE
Was chiming in here to say the same thing. The early days of SWG really doesn't get the credit that it deserves in the MMO world. Crafting was amazing. Hell, even being a medic/doctor was amazing!
I did really enjoy how crafting was its own side of the game in SWG. I don't know if something like that would work in Pantheon, but there are definitely lessons to be learned from how SWG treated crafting. Make crafting its own side of the game, especially for major skills like smithing/tailoring. I think everyone should be able to learn to do basic cooking and fishing, perhaps gathering skills could go along with being an adventurer... but if a weaponsmith spent most of their time being a smith, and it was meaningful and rewarding, that could be excellent.
SWG had so much potential. *Sad eyes*
Big fan of crafting. Overall, I would join ranks with Nephele, Trasak and Vjek really.
If you want to talk about worlds, crafting needs to matter, especially over time and also for new players jumping in the game couple of years in.
I've enjoyed all kinds really, it really depends on how I'm pulled in the game while crafting, how the environment is contributing to the experience and the actual actions my character is doing.
I think, I've said my best on the crafting forum and on the Pantheon Crafters website, if you want to know what I'm looking for when it comes to tradeskilling.
Engaging, demanding, concentration, risk, quality, skill, influence, progressive, entertaining, active..
I hated games where crafting or gathering is just handfumbling at best or a 1 click action. Even more so when my character is just standing there in a "mute" environment.
This aspect of the game is where I've got the most anticipation for. It's a real make or break. Best of luck, can't wait to try it out ingame!
disposalist said:HemlockReaper said:Yes I enjoy trade skills. I do wish trade skills were independent classes, meaning a player choosing to be a blacksmith would be just a blacksmith and need an adventurer for dangerous areas, and the adventure needs the blacksmith for gear ect. Resources and crafted goods should be sought after and rare, unlike the over abundance that happens when every character is adventures-harvester-crafter, multiplied by number of character slots.
Hmm I like the concept of crafters and gatherers being separate 'entities' from adventuring characters. Would feel more 'special' and meaningful, but it might become cumbersome.
It's nice to be a blacksmith and be able to perform repairs while adventuring, for example, or to skin your kills rather than wait for others to bring you dead animals.
I quite enjoyed managing followers in SWTOR - they were the gatherers and crafters, if I recall correctly, and could be sent on tasks/missions of varying lengths to gather/craft stuff for you. I guess that meets the 'separate entity' requirement, but completely removes any effort to *do* the actually gathering/crafting.
Hmm. Worthy of some more thought. I wonder what @Nephele has to say about such a concept?
Crafting systems that are built around managing NPCs are a neat minigame, but they tend to lack a real connection with your own character and thus end up feeling a little artificial. For example: In SWTOR, my character is a top-ranked armstech, yet she has never crafted an actual weapon herself at all - it's always sending an NPC minion over to do it instead. (SWTOR has a lot of other flaws with their crafting and economy implementation as well, especially now after multiple expansions, so this isn't the only thing that puts people off from it).
Depending on why you're engaging in the crafting system and what you're looking for, this may not really bother you - but for many players, it prevents them from really becoming immersed in that gameplay loop. Especially in the high fantasy genre, players tend to have the idea that *they* are the blacksmith or the tailor - not that they're running a business of some kind where they have minions that do it.
There is room for NPC-management systems in various kinds of MMORPG gameplay but I think for them to land well with players they really need to be positioned in a way that fits with people's perceptions of their character's role in the world. It is very setting-dependent. So for example a traditional high fantasy setting like Pantheon doesn't necessarily lend itself very well to having a bunch of NPC minions - but in a steampunk game where players can become captains of airships with NPC crew, it might make more sense and be more accepted by players.
If I were going to try and set up NPC management in Pantheon, I would probably try to tie it to a fourth sphere of gameplay based on regional trade or diplomatic influence, player-run towns and cities, or possibly make it a form of guild gameplay where guilds could direct the actions of NPC minions that were off doing things in the world while all the player guild members were adventuring, crafting, or whatever. The trick is that it would really need to be part of a separate/new system and not a replacement for anything that players might envision themselves doing. As such it would definitely need to be a post-launch thing.
I enjoy tradeskills when I want to chat online with my guildies, but can't devote my full attention to the game for group combat. In fact, I would like 50 percent of the content to be stuff like interesting non-combat quests and harvesting and tradeskills. There are many times that I game while simultaneously doing laundry and other chores around the house. Gaming at the same time breaks up the monotony and provides "reward time" for getting stuff done.
I do enjoy trade skilling and making equipment for myself and others (for sale or guild use). I tend to tradeskill to the role of the character im playing, so in EQ1 my ranger was a master fletcher for instance. I tend to try as many roles and races as I can and I tend to trade skill as I go along, so I end up having most (if not all) trade skills covered in the end.
I have always been disappointed by the usefulness of most of the crafted gear. Arrows and supply items, upgrade scrolls and the like, are very useful, but armour and weapons were always second best to most quested gear, nevermind instance/raid gear. I dont see a difference from selling equipment from dungeons to creating equal items and selling them (as long as one or more of the ingredients are hard to come by or only available from dungeons). Controls need to be in place to make sure that staturation doesnt occur, but that is as much a problem for looted equipment as it is for crafted.
The complexity of crafting has always lacked an edge. The UIs tend to be clumsy, the "depth" tends to be minimal. Personally, I would like to see crafts having to interact with each other. Take my fletching above; it really involves multiple crafts, metal work, wood work, feather (or other flight materials) not to mention the tools needed to create them in the first place.
Games have tended to make the crafted items the end product, this doesnt need to be the case. Allow players to refine products and sell those. Allow parts of items to be created; arrow heads, shafts, hilts, guards, blades, pomels, even rivets or metal links. Then bring them together to make a final product. Each part could introduce a small stat adjustment that could lead to some interesting products that arent available in the wild but (with careful consideration) be as good as anything that drops from a dungeon.
This of course would require a good crafting inventory system and work shops with storage in them. But it could also create new and interesting tade lines.
I also think tradeskills should be more involved with quest lines or even have their own.
So to answer the thread, yes and wood work, fletching, metal work, and all others. Why? I like to think that my stuff helps others and I can earn some plat and prestige along the way. ;-)
Yes I enjoy tradeskills.
The type depends on the char, Warrior I like to smith, for a caster I like tayloring, for an enchanter in EQ it was jewelery.
I like them all as they all have there own unique items which can benefit others and yourself, and you can make some money with them.
I also support crafting and think it needs to have some significant role.
Ive always though it would be cool to be a crafter and that be my full class and be able to craft as well as go out and hunt materials in a group as the crafter and be able to still contribute to the group in ways. Maybe you can't really balance that though. But just something so cool sounding about hunting orcs in a group as a crafter and from combat learn orc cultural smithing techniques, uncover their recipes, learn tricks to modify currently known things, or learn a new technique with your hammer bashing orc skulls or be inspired for a new idea by a groupmates technique or equipment. I know I'm probably way out in left field now lol.