Forums » The Rogue

Rogue Must haves

    • 1 posts
    August 11, 2015 7:42 AM PDT
    The rogue was my main on early EQ so it's always held a special spot for me. The things I loved were the viscous backstabs, pick pocket, and surprisingly to some the corpse drag. I guess it's the feeling of being needed at the worst of times. My fondest times on EQ was sneaking around Hate dragging multiple corpses back to safety. The bad part of being a rogue early on was getting a group and then the inability to solo greens while you waited for a group. Still enjoyed the challenge of proving my worth.
    • 357 posts
    September 20, 2015 2:39 PM PDT
    Chaam said:

    For me the must haves for a Rogue to keep it unique

    1)  Backstab, high damage

    2)  Stealth in and out of combat as long as the Rogue does not have agro

    3)  Proficient with Daggers and Bow

    4)  Short/Long sword should reduce Rogue damage

    5)  Lots of different types of Rogue only crafted Poisons.

     

    Other Items that are important

     

    Pick Pocket / Pick Locks,  PP to obtain various items. 

    The armor they wear should reflect the dps output and survivability.  Lighter armor = more DPS and more squissie and so on.  I am sure there is alot more in my head.

     

    If a Rogue jumps out of a tree or off a wall and hits you the Rogue DPS should be Doubled or more depending on the force from the jump as well.

     

    imo

    yup i like it sounds like a rogue to me!

    • 206 posts
    September 26, 2015 10:19 AM PDT

    I'm sure Kilsin will be fighting for a very fun to play Rogue. I used to play a rogue beside him on many raids in Vanguard but I got to go with my man Brad in this game and try out another one of his Rangers.

    • 75 posts
    October 10, 2015 12:20 PM PDT

    You guys will probably hate the idea... but I really liked having a group utility like Sap in WoW as a rogue. It would be cool if we saw something similar in Pantheon. Being able to CC one mob is useful, interesting and doesn't really step on the toes of a true CC class.

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    October 10, 2015 6:11 PM PDT
    Prindan said:

    You guys will probably hate the idea... but I really liked having a group utility like Sap in WoW as a rogue. It would be cool if we saw something similar in Pantheon. Being able to CC one mob is useful, interesting and doesn't really step on the toes of a true CC class.

    That very small CC ability was nice, in VG we had:

    Blackjack - melee hit from behind which is basically like a club over the head (60 secs)

    Sleep Dart - ranged thrown dart that only worked on 1 mob at a time, if you threw one at another mob the first one would wake up (30 secs)

    Rogues are well-known for leaping from the shadows with devastating force, their trickery and also their ability to stun, sleep or confuse their opponents, so I am sure we will have something like that included.

    • 75 posts
    October 10, 2015 8:03 PM PDT

    Glad to hear that Rogues will have some CC related goodies in Pantheon. I raided with a rogue in EQ2 and WoW, but never tried one in Vanguard as I was too busy having fun on the BloodMage :D

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    October 10, 2015 8:52 PM PDT
    Prindan said:

    Glad to hear that Rogues will have some CC related goodies in Pantheon. I raided with a rogue in EQ2 and WoW, but never tried one in Vanguard as I was too busy having fun on the BloodMage :D

    I can't confirm that they will have it, Prindan, I just meant that due to EQ and VG having them, in my opinion, we will most likely see something similar but don't hold me to it, the Devs may have something else entirely planned. (they better not though /shakes fist lol)

    I am a Rogue main and agree with you, the CC ability helped us for small group utility, even though our main focus should be on being the top melee dps class. ;)

    • 77 posts
    February 15, 2016 10:13 PM PST

    Rogue must haves were pretty much summed up in the second post lol. 

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    February 16, 2016 12:58 AM PST

    Furty said:

    Rogue must haves were pretty much summed up in the second post lol. 

    Unfortunately, the first page and posts prior to 2015 got archived, so the quote was the only thing that saved Chaams post, so it may look a bit weird in some subforums.

    • 1568 posts
    February 16, 2016 1:02 PM PST

    I adore the Rogue class (though it is not a playstyle that I prefer I must admit) and all the sneaky things they can potentially do. What I disagree with is this sentiment "Stealth in and out of combat so long as the Rogue does not have aggro".  To me, that is beyond what is my ability to susped my disbelief.  A rogue and I are standing in the middle of a well lit hallway.  The rogue goes into stealth mode and vanishes from my sight?  Really?  I'm staring right at the guy...not even am arms length away.

    Remember, his ability is not magical, he's not casting a spell that cloaks him in invisibility.  He is merely attempting to move about making as little noise and attracting as little attention to himself as possible.  Doing that while I'm staring right at the guy should be impossible.  In combat or not, he's being directly observed. 

    The same must be said for stealthing down a straight, well-lit hallways which has no shadows, or other obstructions the entire length of the hallway.  There are 2 guards standing at the end.  By no means should a rogue be able to traverse the length of the hall undetected.  If the hallway is poorly lit (just a few torches) with buttresses or other protrusions/indentations in the walls which could hide the Rogue, or even if the hallway had a tall ceiling with large beams running across it that the rogue could sneak-walk on I can accept them being undetectable.

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    February 16, 2016 4:18 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    I adore the Rogue class (though it is not a playstyle that I prefer I must admit) and all the sneaky things they can potentially do. What I disagree with is this sentiment "Stealth in and out of combat so long as the Rogue does not have aggro".  To me, that is beyond what is my ability to susped my disbelief.  A rogue and I are standing in the middle of a well lit hallway.  The rogue goes into stealth mode and vanishes from my sight?  Really?  I'm staring right at the guy...not even am arms length away.

    Remember, his ability is not magical, he's not casting a spell that cloaks him in invisibility.  He is merely attempting to move about making as little noise and attracting as little attention to himself as possible.  Doing that while I'm staring right at the guy should be impossible.  In combat or not, he's being directly observed. 

    The same must be said for stealthing down a straight, well-lit hallways which has no shadows, or other obstructions the entire length of the hallway.  There are 2 guards standing at the end.  By no means should a rogue be able to traverse the length of the hall undetected.  If the hallway is poorly lit (just a few torches) with buttresses or other protrusions/indentations in the walls which could hide the Rogue, or even if the hallway had a tall ceiling with large beams running across it that the rogue could sneak-walk on I can accept them being undetectable.

    That is the fantasy element though Vandraad, if we are now going to compare all classes abilities based on real life, we will have a very dull game indeed!

    We have to mix the real with the fantasy to create our own world like what was done in EQ and VG and the Rogue has typically always been able to enter stealth as long as they were not in combat or had aggro as they are the masters of trickery and deceit, they have the ability to vanish before your very eyes, it's what they specialise in and most of the time they use powder or smoke bombs in those situations to enter stealth but to remove their ability to disappear in plain sight also would render the stealth ability fairly useless in many situations and would require that we make the same sweeping changes to all classes, which really would take a lot of the fun out of the game.

    Fantasy doesn't have to make sense all the time, which is the beautiful thing about it. Why are you ok with classes using FD to fake their own death right in front of your eyes while staring directly at them knowing they are pretending or Mages casting spells out of nowhere to create an illusion meant to fool you, even though you see them cast it, yet a master of stealth can't disappear from your very eyes? ;)

    • 1568 posts
    February 16, 2016 5:23 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    That is the fantasy element though Vandraad, if we are now going to compare all classes abilities based on real life, we will have a very dull game indeed!

    We have to mix the real with the fantasy to create our own world like what was done in EQ and VG and the Rogue has typically always been able to enter stealth as long as they were not in combat or had aggro as they are the masters of trickery and deceit, they have the ability to vanish before your very eyes, it's what they specialise in and most of the time they use powder or smoke bombs in those situations to enter stealth but to remove their ability to disappear in plain sight also would render the stealth ability fairly useless in many situations and would require that we make the same sweeping changes to all classes, which really would take a lot of the fun out of the game.

    Fantasy doesn't have to make sense all the time, which is the beautiful thing about it. Why are you ok with classes using FD to fake their own death right in front of your eyes while staring directly at them knowing they are pretending or Mages casting spells out of nowhere to create an illusion meant to fool you, even though you see them cast it, yet a master of stealth can't disappear from your very eyes? ;)

    Believe me I struggle with the suspension of disbelief quite often but it really is just this one particular aspect that always leaps out at me.  Don't get me wrong, I love it that Rogues can do exactly what I'm saying should be impossible because they can provide that last hope of saving a group/raid using that ability.  I guess it comes down to 'ability' vs 'magic' and I guess here is where I forget that an ability can indeed be magical.

    • 77 posts
    February 20, 2016 12:52 AM PST

    i would be happy if we were the best DPS in a sustained fight when it comes to the melees, assuming we're equivaly geared. When i think of rogue, i'm thinking high damage with melee weapons, mainly dagger.  i say sustained fight because we just keep going and going...of course i'm biased towards the EQ rogue, and that's all we did.

    • 15 posts
    March 15, 2016 10:27 AM PDT

    I do not care if I am the highest damage dealing class. I want to be useful. I want things that nobody else can do, make poisons, backstab, throwing daggers, shooting darts and attracting attention. I want to jump out of the bushes like "Boo!" and take off running. Leading the orcs to their inevitable demise.

    It would be neat to see a rogue as (from EQ) a puller prospective. Can draw attention by throwing rocks or shooting the small darts. Kind of lead monsters to the group quietly. With Sap or something similar it would definitely be doable.

    It would also be neat to have a disguise ability. I don't know how you would put it in the game though.

     


    This post was edited by Frostilion at March 15, 2016 10:28 AM PDT
    • 36 posts
    March 22, 2016 10:04 PM PDT
    I'd like a couple high end skills that were in PoP.

    #1 Escape. You disappear, mobs forget.
    #2 Sneak that nothing can see. Great for scouting and corpse recovery.
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    March 23, 2016 2:13 AM PDT

    Thunndar said: I'd like a couple high end skills that were in PoP. #1 Escape. You disappear, mobs forget. #2 Sneak that nothing can see. Great for scouting and corpse recovery.

    Yeah, these were great in VG too and added a lot to the class :)

    • 254 posts
    March 23, 2016 1:48 PM PDT

    Loved playing my Raki rogue and the animation that came along with going into sneak, "poof!" and I'm gone.. was what kept me playing for a long time

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    March 23, 2016 6:03 PM PDT

    Nuemcy said:

    Loved playing my Raki rogue and the animation that came along with going into sneak, "poof!" and I'm gone.. was what kept me playing for a long time

    So did I, good to see another Raki Rogue from VG around! :)

    Smoke trick was awesome to move unseen behind the mobs and attack and having stealth (with levels of stealth) and the ability to skill up sneak/hide was very cool it actually helped with your stealth level if you put work into it, plus all the pieces of rare stealth gear hidden around the world!

    Oh the memories :)

    • 69 posts
    March 27, 2016 9:32 AM PDT

    Gawd said:

    Chaam said:

    For me the must haves for a Rogue to keep it unique

    1)  Backstab, high damage

     

     

    Now I know it's early, but during the video it seemed excessive and OP.

    I'm sure Kilsin enjoyed it, but when everyone is doing normal damage around 30 pts, the BS was doing 834!

    I think i saw him hit the mummy for 950+

    I'm all for BS being high damage, but...

    If anything, it was fun to watch as well.

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    March 27, 2016 4:29 PM PDT

    Lakland said:

    Gawd said:

    Chaam said:

    For me the must haves for a Rogue to keep it unique

    1)  Backstab, high damage

     

     

    Now I know it's early, but during the video it seemed excessive and OP.

    I'm sure Kilsin enjoyed it, but when everyone is doing normal damage around 30 pts, the BS was doing 834!

    I think i saw him hit the mummy for 950+

    I'm all for BS being high damage, but...

    If anything, it was fun to watch as well.

    Backstab will be high damage but what you saw in the stream was unbalanced and OP, I have now got that backstab up to 1460 and can one-shot nearly anything but none of it has been balanced properly which is why I stopped using it and only brought it out during "oh crap" moments for the interest of time so I could make sure you guys got to see the end boss ;)

    • 69 posts
    March 28, 2016 4:12 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Backstab will be high damage but what you saw in the stream was unbalanced and OP, I have now got that backstab up to 1460 and can one-shot nearly anything but none of it has been balanced properly which is why I stopped using it and only brought it out during "oh crap" moments for the interest of time so I could make sure you guys got to see the end boss ;)

     

    Thanks for the reply. It did prompt a follow up question though.

    During the video we heard of the message saying "weapon not effective" and I started to think about undead. Not using any functional organs to sustain life and the fact that it is a sharp blade, is VR also bringing this into play for special abilities like BS as well? Or is it a simple yes or no you can backstab on bad guy x?

    If you guys are going into this type of depth already, I can only imagine how great this game will be.

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    March 28, 2016 5:23 AM PDT

    Lakland said:

    Kilsin said:

    Backstab will be high damage but what you saw in the stream was unbalanced and OP, I have now got that backstab up to 1460 and can one-shot nearly anything but none of it has been balanced properly which is why I stopped using it and only brought it out during "oh crap" moments for the interest of time so I could make sure you guys got to see the end boss ;)

     

    Thanks for the reply. It did prompt a follow up question though.

    During the video we heard of the message saying "weapon not effective" and I started to think about undead. Not using any functional organs to sustain life and the fact that it is a sharp blade, is VR also bringing this into play for special abilities like BS as well? Or is it a simple yes or no you can backstab on bad guy x?

    If you guys are going into this type of depth already, I can only imagine how great this game will be.

    I can't talk much about this yet but what I can say that has already been said is that weapons will matter, my daggers, for instance, will not be as effective against undead skeletons as a mace or club would for the exact reasons you mentioned, they are just a walking pile of bones with nothing much to stab as for individual abilities, we have not discussed that much of the mechanic yet but more will come as development progresses ;)

    • 163 posts
    March 28, 2016 10:17 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Lakland said:

    Kilsin said:

    Backstab will be high damage but what you saw in the stream was unbalanced and OP, I have now got that backstab up to 1460 and can one-shot nearly anything but none of it has been balanced properly which is why I stopped using it and only brought it out during "oh crap" moments for the interest of time so I could make sure you guys got to see the end boss ;)

     

    Thanks for the reply. It did prompt a follow up question though.

    During the video we heard of the message saying "weapon not effective" and I started to think about undead. Not using any functional organs to sustain life and the fact that it is a sharp blade, is VR also bringing this into play for special abilities like BS as well? Or is it a simple yes or no you can backstab on bad guy x?

    If you guys are going into this type of depth already, I can only imagine how great this game will be.

    I can't talk much about this yet but what I can say that has already been said is that weapons will matter, my daggers, for instance, will not be as effective against undead skeletons as a mace or club would for the exact reasons you mentioned, they are just a walking pile of bones with nothing much to stab as for individual abilities, we have not discussed that much of the mechanic yet but more will come as development progresses ;)

     

    pssst, "hey buddy, wanna buy a blackjack?  Hardly used.  I'll sell it to you cheap.  Make quick work of them pesky skellies..."

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    March 28, 2016 3:14 PM PDT

    Chimerical said:

    Kilsin said:

    Lakland said:

    Kilsin said:

    Backstab will be high damage but what you saw in the stream was unbalanced and OP, I have now got that backstab up to 1460 and can one-shot nearly anything but none of it has been balanced properly which is why I stopped using it and only brought it out during "oh crap" moments for the interest of time so I could make sure you guys got to see the end boss ;)

     

    Thanks for the reply. It did prompt a follow up question though.

    During the video we heard of the message saying "weapon not effective" and I started to think about undead. Not using any functional organs to sustain life and the fact that it is a sharp blade, is VR also bringing this into play for special abilities like BS as well? Or is it a simple yes or no you can backstab on bad guy x?

    If you guys are going into this type of depth already, I can only imagine how great this game will be.

    I can't talk much about this yet but what I can say that has already been said is that weapons will matter, my daggers, for instance, will not be as effective against undead skeletons as a mace or club would for the exact reasons you mentioned, they are just a walking pile of bones with nothing much to stab as for individual abilities, we have not discussed that much of the mechanic yet but more will come as development progresses ;)

     

    pssst, "hey buddy, wanna buy a blackjack?  Hardly used.  I'll sell it to you cheap.  Make quick work of them pesky skellies..."

    Exactly, a weapon change would be in order to be more effective and blackjack for Rogues is perfect ;)

    • 77 posts
    March 29, 2016 5:20 AM PDT

    going along those lines of using a blackjack against those pesky skellies for bonus dmg and having piercing obviously be inneffective and by extension backstab, how bout if we have to switch to a blackjack type weapon, our backstab skill changes to something more blunt related. obviously wont be as much dmg as backstab, but this way we wont be too worthless on fights we cant backstab with. i cant think of a proper name for the skill other than blackjack lol