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Get yer May 2020 Newsletter here.

    • 769 posts
    May 22, 2020 9:05 PM PDT

    Vander said:

    LeeLoo said:

    So, how many "pre-alpha" phases are there?  10?

    You know Ive tested almost every mmorg out there since DAOC and this is getting a tad bit looney.    Oh PA5 WOOT  /rollseyes

     

     

    Shh..  The radicals that plague these forums will attack you if you give honest feedback like that. I agree that we have too many PA's and from my understanding from what I read PA5 is going to have more than one session. So in other words we are going to have PA5, PA6, PA7 and maybe more.

     

    Haha, I might be considered a radical i dont know, Honest feedback is great, uninformed doom and gloom is likley to get biteback, but still i think its worth posting your feelings even if it is gloomy, but you have to appreciate that people will want to rebut somthing they feel is not correct, and thats ok :)  

    What i am fairly certain of regarding your post is the multiple sessions relate to PA5 and not other PA's, so while there may be more series of PA's after 5, the multiple sessions they are referencing are within the PA5 testing stage.

    this was a post I put on Reddit, that i think is fairly relevant.

    I'd say they are really trying to ensure pa5 is as polished as possible, probably much more so than we would have initially expected, if it holds up with players and the now virtually complete list of faerthale systems actually work but only need tweaking moving forward, then we might just be heading straight to alpha once that pa5 is complete (with the expected gap in between the two of course) if these same systems are needing to be reworked, then on to pa6

    Pretty decent chance we are moving towards alpha after this next pa5, fingers crossed… they seem to be hinting that building the system up in the way they have had left them plenty of flexibility to have the game functional at PA5's level and tweak on the run without 1 system breaking another in an unrelated way

    • 147 posts
    May 22, 2020 10:32 PM PDT

     uninformed doom and gloom is likley to get biteback, but still i think its worth posting your feelings even if it is gloomy, but you have to appreciate that people will want to rebut somthing they feel is not correct, and thats ok :)  

    What i am fairly certain of regarding your post is the multiple sessions relate to PA5 and not other PA's, so while there may be more series of PA's after 5, the multiple sessions they are referencing are within the PA5 testing stage.

     

    I'd say they are really trying to ensure pa5 is as polished as possible, probably much more so than we would have initially expected, if it holds up with players and the now virtually complete list of faerthale systems actually work but only need tweaking moving forward, then we might just be heading straight to alpha once that pa5 is complete (with the expected gap in between the two of course) if these same systems are needing to be reworked, then on to pa6

    Pretty decent chance we are moving towards alpha after this next pa5, fingers crossed… they seem to be hinting that building the system up in the way they have had left them plenty of flexibility to have the game functional at PA5's level and tweak on the run without 1 system breaking another in an unrelated way

     

    One of the problems with social media is you can not see the person demeanor. So a lot of what we read on an individual level goes by our own personal interpretation. So with that said good sir you honestly lost me when you said "  uninformed doom and gloom is likley to get biteback ". I do not see this uninformed doom and gloom. The other gentleman was venting his frustration. With that said he wasn't the only one venting frustration and I was reading all these cheap shots people were making and it was irking me at the lack of common courtesy and / or respect. So I made a general statment without calling any fellow pledger(s) out by name in hope to bring some common courtesy and respect back to this thread. So I hope that explanation helps in understanding my motives.  Secondly I just return to these forums after taking a month away from them because of the same lack of common courtesy and respect. How ever I did poorly in that case. After turning the other cheek 3 or 4 times I lost my cool and I regret that I let my anger get the best of me when I was the target of attacks. I promised myself I'll not let that happen again. It is hard for me as a retired Marine that is used to fighting to walk away. I'm still adjusting to being a civilian. It is kicking my butt.   

    Now as for me saying PA5,PA6,PA7 let me copy and paste the article here.

    This is what VR team wrote --->  please be ready to test for the first sessions of Pre-Alpha 5. As much as we want to get your feedback on organic gameplay, we will start by setting a specific focus for each test session.  < ---

    As I stated already good sir. I didn't see the person from VR that wrote that. So I have no clue about his or her demeanor. So I am going off on my own personal interpretation. First sessions of PA5 to me is more than one more PA. Calling PA5 session 2 is to me the same thing as calling it PA6, Calling PA5 session 3 is again to me. PA7...

    Now my personal frustration is this. I have no problem with the VIP pledgers getting the perk of getting into these PA's, but it seems like we are having an endless amount of PA's. It looks like we are going to have seven or more PA's and I fear we'll only get maybe 3 at the most alphas and 1 or 2 beta. ( I hope I'm wrong) But that in my eyes isn't just a perk. That is treating the VIP pledger like they are enlitist and the rest of the pledgers are just peasants. I take issue with that...  I hope that long explanation help to shine some light on my motives and demeanor.  /Salute

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Vander at May 22, 2020 10:39 PM PDT
    • 420 posts
    May 22, 2020 10:56 PM PDT

    Interesting argument based on guesses.  But even if what you say is 100% accurate...how would you suggest they do this?  They don't need a ton of people for the PA phases.  If they just let us all in then they won't get the specific info they're looking for.  I guess I'm just not sure why you feel like a "peasant" when we have the option to sign up for Pre-Alpha just like anyone else. 

    • 170 posts
    May 23, 2020 12:07 AM PDT

    Your interpretation of what PA5 is holds absolutely zero weight.  For each PA the devs have goals they wish to accomplish.  If PA5 takes 50 play tests... yes testing. Patching. Tweaking. Having the PA test server up for 50 separate tests. Then thats what it takes for PA5. That doesn't mean its PA 55....  

    Sounds to me like they are going to have very controlled testing environments for the first few PA5 sessions. Which is normal in PA and gathering precise data.

    Awesome to see them talking and fixing the net code in their last Dev stream.  Doing it right.  Keep up the hard work VR!  

     


    This post was edited by Kastor at May 23, 2020 12:08 AM PDT
    • 769 posts
    May 23, 2020 4:20 AM PDT

    Vander said:

     One of the problems with social media is you can not see the person demeanor. So a lot of what we read on an individual level goes by our own personal interpretation. So with that said good sir you honestly lost me when you said "  uninformed doom and gloom is likley to get biteback ". I do not see this uninformed doom and gloom. The other gentleman was venting his frustration. With that said he wasn't the only one venting frustration and I was reading all these cheap shots people were making and it was irking me at the lack of common courtesy and / or respect. So I made a general statment without calling any fellow pledger(s) out by name in hope to bring some common courtesy and respect back to this thread. So I hope that explanation helps in understanding my motives.  Secondly I just return to these forums after taking a month away from them because of the same lack of common courtesy and respect. How ever I did poorly in that case. After turning the other cheek 3 or 4 times I lost my cool and I regret that I let my anger get the best of me when I was the target of attacks. I promised myself I'll not let that happen again. It is hard for me as a retired Marine that is used to fighting to walk away. I'm still adjusting to being a civilian. It is kicking my butt.   

    Now as for me saying PA5,PA6,PA7 let me copy and paste the article here.

    This is what VR team wrote --->  please be ready to test for the first sessions of Pre-Alpha 5. As much as we want to get your feedback on organic gameplay, we will start by setting a specific focus for each test session.  < ---

    As I stated already good sir. I didn't see the person from VR that wrote that. So I have no clue about his or her demeanor. So I am going off on my own personal interpretation. First sessions of PA5 to me is more than one more PA. Calling PA5 session 2 is to me the same thing as calling it PA6, Calling PA5 session 3 is again to me. PA7...

    Now my personal frustration is this. I have no problem with the VIP pledgers getting the perk of getting into these PA's, but it seems like we are having an endless amount of PA's. It looks like we are going to have seven or more PA's and I fear we'll only get maybe 3 at the most alphas and 1 or 2 beta. ( I hope I'm wrong) But that in my eyes isn't just a perk. That is treating the VIP pledger like they are enlitist and the rest of the pledgers are just peasants. I take issue with that...  I hope that long explanation help to shine some light on my motives and demeanor.  /Salute

     

    Dont worry you were right, there wasnt doom and gloom, that was actually the point.  I was replying to your post shh... saying the radicals will attack you etc, by saying well they wont unless you throw out uniformed doom and gloom, no attacking going on here at all, hopefully didnt feel like that.  

    • 210 posts
    May 23, 2020 7:48 AM PDT

    I can only hope these guys are keeping at the speed they are.

    I'm patiently waiting myself, but I understand the concern of others with the rate of speed of development. There are circumstances that have slowed development down which is completely understandable, but even before those circumstances, it wasn't like there was GREAT momentum. Rather, a steady trecking to get the job done.

    PA5 has only been announced - not active, and it's been over 3 years since the announced first session of Pre-Alpha testing. At this rate, they are going to be playing catch up with the graphics, movements, etc. New games come out; they introduce us to new mechanics and graphics for gaming, now we want to see this in future released games. Some people have been here since 2014. That's 6 years, and we're still in Pre-Alpha. If it takes 10 years to get the ball rolling and then even with money backed by your own supporters, you still can't get more people into game at a faster rate, that should be something to be talked about. It shouldn't take a game 10 years to develop. And if it does.... that's even worse. By the time it's released, either the game itself or certain aspects are going to be outdated.

    With that being said, I'm still looking forward to playing this game. I love the idea of a solid foundation for the game, I love the team behind the game, and I love the community. If you're going to make us wait 10 years for this game to be released in full - you better make sure it was worth the wait!

    • 42 posts
    May 23, 2020 7:48 AM PDT

    Vander said:As I stated already good sir. I didn't see the person from VR that wrote that. So I have no clue about his or her demeanor. So I am going off on my own personal interpretation. First sessions of PA5 to me is more than one more PA. Calling PA5 session 2 is to me the same thing as calling it PA6, Calling PA5 session 3 is again to me. PA7...

    The problem there is that you're wrong. It's not even something that is subjective or up for debate. Every pre-alpha is going to have an overarching goal to be met before moving on to the next pre-alpha phase. Those goals are reached by focusing on different game systems with each testing session. Testing sessions can be one hour or one week, it depends on the system being tested, but as long as those sessions fall under the meta of the goals of PA5, they are not separate phases.

    Sure, it's entirely possible that PA5 sessions will highlight some other issues with the game's systems that might necessitate a PA6, and so forth, but your "personal interpretation" is meaningless garbage.

    • 15 posts
    May 23, 2020 8:34 AM PDT

    I kind of actually agree with Vander, here. Sorry but thats you opinion and not fact.

    • 42 posts
    May 23, 2020 9:13 AM PDT

    Motive7 said:

    I kind of actually agree with Vander, here. Sorry but thats you opinion and not fact.

    Then you don't really understand the difference between opinion and fact.

    Here's a fact that some of you seem to have trouble coming to terms with; none of us, regardless of pledge level, get to dictate VR's development cycle.

    You can be disappointed, frustrated, or angry about so-called delays, and you can express that disappointment, anger, and frustration, but it doesn't change the fact that the only people here who have any control over when Pantheon is released are VR themselves.

    Given that fact, Vander's opinion, and consequently your opinion, are still meaningless garbage.

    • 420 posts
    May 23, 2020 10:29 AM PDT

    And on the note of "waiting 10 years" for a game to release...the only reason this feels like a problem is because this is a crowd funded game which means many of you were here from the very first day.  Other games that we've enjoyed over the years may have also taken 10 years to develop but we just didn't know about them until the final few years.

     

    They're doing a great job, at least since I pledged.  I get the frustration from those that have been here 4 to 6 years, but as a newer pledge I can tell you that the excitement is still here.  

    • 147 posts
    May 23, 2020 3:56 PM PDT

    eunichron said:

    Motive7 said:

    I kind of actually agree with Vander, here. Sorry but thats you opinion and not fact.

    Then you don't really understand the difference between opinion and fact.

    Here's a fact that some of you seem to have trouble coming to terms with; none of us, regardless of pledge level, get to dictate VR's development cycle.

    You can be disappointed, frustrated, or angry about so-called delays, and you can express that disappointment, anger, and frustration, but it doesn't change the fact that the only people here who have any control over when Pantheon is released are VR themselves.

    Given that fact, Vander's opinion, and consequently your opinion, are still meaningless garbage.

     

    What is with all the hate and anger???   I do not care if you don't agree with me, but pushing your strongly opinionated views as facts while attacking other people that clearly stated they were giving their opinions is a little odd to me.  You gave me a good laugh.  I needed that. I hope you get what ever the uderline issues in your life are that make you so angery resolved soon. Until than you have a great day "if you can". Now this is were you say something you deem to be clever because you're full of hate and determine to get the last word... This is also when I walk away.

    • 6 posts
    May 23, 2020 6:25 PM PDT

    I was under the impression that PA5 was the last PA phase. After PA5, we are supposed to move to plain old alpha aren't we?

     

    • 192 posts
    May 23, 2020 6:42 PM PDT

    bigphillystyle said:

    I was under the impression that PA5 was the last PA phase. After PA5, we are supposed to move to plain old alpha aren't we?

     

     

    I think that is their hope/intent but depending on how it goes there could possibly be a PA6.

    • 769 posts
    May 23, 2020 10:03 PM PDT

    General question to devs and others...

    I am wondering if we are still heading towards the PA5 (i think it was 5) streamer program? Or did that come and go in PA4? 

    I am not a PA5'r or a streamer but i am keen as mustard to see some general unscripted gameplay (hopefully in the Faerthale)

    Btw: Thanks for the great announcement VR! 

    • 1170 posts
    May 24, 2020 7:04 PM PDT

    bigphillystyle said:

    I was under the impression that PA5 was the last PA phase. After PA5, we are supposed to move to plain old alpha aren't we?

     

    They KNOW there is going to be a PA5,

    They have said they could need a PA7, but for now PA5 is the only for sure.

     

    ANY PA is just a Test, knowbody can know the current PA is the last until AFTER after (or at least well into) the test and see what they find.

    Unless of course they choose to go to the next step while the current step is broken.

    • 420 posts
    May 24, 2020 7:29 PM PDT

    I don't disagree with you but there is one big difference this time.  This statement: "This is an important part of the process because we need to ensure everything works on a massive, live scale before we can stamp it ready for alpha consideration."  This implies that the best case scenario is that this test goes well and the NEXT step is Alpha.  With that said, the chance of a best case scenario is probably pretty small.  The purpose of the test is to find problems so it'll obviously depend on what problems are found and how difficult they are to fix.

    • 1 posts
    May 25, 2020 2:21 AM PDT

    I have a question regarding the UI. I know the Graybox UI are kind of placeholders.

    But what is the goal for the finished UI? Will it feature a "fantasy" themed UI (i.e. WoW, LOTRO, Hearthstone)? Or will it be more like Asian MMOs (Tera, Black Desert)?

    The alpha footage so far looks like icons, healthbars, targetbars, etc. are going to look kind of sci-fi like due to the bright colors and contrasts. And I have to honestly say, that I personally don't "feel" that kind of UI in a medieval based fantasy game.

    So where are we going with the UI?

    • 210 posts
    May 25, 2020 4:35 AM PDT

    I read up on a couple games that had release dates near 10 years. Most of them flopped pretty heavily. There are a few that had great success, though.

    But its 6 years and we're only in PA5. It's crowd funded with some angel investors, so no, they don't HAVE to release anything ahead of their schedule. And of course there are problems that are going to arise that need to be fixed that prolong this release.

    My point wasn't that this game should be released soon, I and no one else here knows the release date. I'm simply stating, they have a fan base that is trying their hardest to remain patient, while receiving only minor details that quench their thirst. For some, PA5 is great news to hear. For others, they say "I guess I'll check back in a couple months". I get that they can't dedicate some of their time to always do streams or videos, and I love the monthly newsletters. But you have to understand peoples' points of view in order to understand why people are losing hope in games today.

    I've backed 3 other games that still have no release date in sight. And I look forward to their releases because I love their game concept. These devs don't even have the same amount of backing or as large of a team as Pantheon. Yet, this is their 5th year in the Pre-Alpha/Alpha phase. The term somewhat lost it's meaning with these steam games, so people don't truly understand where Pantheon is at in development and why the testing phase is more important for testing than playing.

    All I'm saying is; people are patiently waiting, and some people don't understand why it's taking so long. It's best to help explain (even if you have to do it 500 times) than to get mad at people over asking a question. I'm also saying that there have been games that had 10 years of development and flopped. Please, oh please, do not let this be Pantheon's fate. 

    Suggestion: maybe for certain PA phases, throw out some weekend keys. I know some people might not feel great about that because they spent money to get access, but they have access for every phase and session. Drumming up some hype for just a chance to play only 2-3 days of PA wouldn't be all that harmful and it might bring back some hype. Especially to some of the streams! See those numbers soar when you announce weekend PA keys. Fresh eyes might also help with testing ;)

    • 420 posts
    May 25, 2020 9:20 AM PDT

    fancy said:

     

    Suggestion: maybe for certain PA phases, throw out some weekend keys. I know some people might not feel great about that because they spent money to get access, but they have access for every phase and session. Drumming up some hype for just a chance to play only 2-3 days of PA wouldn't be all that harmful and it might bring back some hype. Especially to some of the streams! See those numbers soar when you announce weekend PA keys. Fresh eyes might also help with testing ;)

    I think they should only do this if they don't get the turn out they need from the current testing pool.  I do agree that it might bring some hype, but it might be a little too early to worry about hype.  We don't want the masses begging for the game to be released, we want the masses to wait in bliss (ignorance) that the game even exists.  Then when there is a release date turn up the hype.

    Camelot unchained has had problems getting enough testers.  I signed up for beta access with them but they've been inviting ALL backers to tests because they aren't getting the turn out they need for the testing phases.  To me that's a bad sign, not a good sign.  I guess in short, I just want them to do what's best for the game, even if that means keeping us in the dark most of the time.


    This post was edited by Ranarius at May 25, 2020 9:21 AM PDT
    • 239 posts
    May 25, 2020 9:41 AM PDT

    Vander said:

    LeeLoo said:

    So, how many "pre-alpha" phases are there?  10?

    You know Ive tested almost every mmorg out there since DAOC and this is getting a tad bit looney.    Oh PA5 WOOT  /rollseyes

     

     

    Shh..  The radicals that plague these forums will attack you if you give honest feedback like that. I agree that we have too many PA's and from my understanding from what I read PA5 is going to have more than one session. So in other words we are going to have PA5, PA6, PA7 and maybe more.

     

    What does "too many PAs" mean?  Are you part of the dev team and have inside info that the game is ready for Alpha and we don't really need more PAs?  Or are you armchair producing and have no idea what it takes to build a game of this scale with a small team?  There probably will be more PAs and then there will be Alpha.  That's kinda how this works.

    If you're really that impatient waiting for this game then don't wait.  Go find another game to play, build an addition to your house, restore a classic car. Whatever. But griping about PRotF's release schedule on fan forums won't get you anywhere and isn't a good look.

    • 147 posts
    May 25, 2020 12:42 PM PDT

    osyris said:

    I have a question regarding the UI. I know the Graybox UI are kind of placeholders.

    But what is the goal for the finished UI? Will it feature a "fantasy" themed UI (i.e. WoW, LOTRO, Hearthstone)? Or will it be more like Asian MMOs (Tera, Black Desert)?

    The alpha footage so far looks like icons, healthbars, targetbars, etc. are going to look kind of sci-fi like due to the bright colors and contrasts. And I have to honestly say, that I personally don't "feel" that kind of UI in a medieval based fantasy game.

    So where are we going with the UI?

     

    Just about every stream update VR does they talk about the UI. At this point the talk about UI is just "filler" to make for more content when VR does do a stream update.  I have been here for a good long time now and I have no clue about the UI. What VR tells us in one stream update about the UI is darn near obsolete by the next stream update VR does. Sorry I can not give you a better anwser.. I'm sure VR is going to talk about the UI again in this upcoming stream they do. I recommend you to ask VR in chat on the next twitch stream they do. 

    • 147 posts
    May 25, 2020 12:44 PM PDT

    fancy said:

    I read up on a couple games that had release dates near 10 years. Most of them flopped pretty heavily. There are a few that had great success, though.

    But its 6 years and we're only in PA5. It's crowd funded with some angel investors, so no, they don't HAVE to release anything ahead of their schedule. And of course there are problems that are going to arise that need to be fixed that prolong this release.

    My point wasn't that this game should be released soon, I and no one else here knows the release date. I'm simply stating, they have a fan base that is trying their hardest to remain patient, while receiving only minor details that quench their thirst. For some, PA5 is great news to hear. For others, they say "I guess I'll check back in a couple months". I get that they can't dedicate some of their time to always do streams or videos, and I love the monthly newsletters. But you have to understand peoples' points of view in order to understand why people are losing hope in games today.

    I've backed 3 other games that still have no release date in sight. And I look forward to their releases because I love their game concept. These devs don't even have the same amount of backing or as large of a team as Pantheon. Yet, this is their 5th year in the Pre-Alpha/Alpha phase. The term somewhat lost it's meaning with these steam games, so people don't truly understand where Pantheon is at in development and why the testing phase is more important for testing than playing.

    All I'm saying is; people are patiently waiting, and some people don't understand why it's taking so long. It's best to help explain (even if you have to do it 500 times) than to get mad at people over asking a question. I'm also saying that there have been games that had 10 years of development and flopped. Please, oh please, do not let this be Pantheon's fate. 

    Suggestion: maybe for certain PA phases, throw out some weekend keys. I know some people might not feel great about that because they spent money to get access, but they have access for every phase and session. Drumming up some hype for just a chance to play only 2-3 days of PA wouldn't be all that harmful and it might bring back some hype. Especially to some of the streams! See those numbers soar when you announce weekend PA keys. Fresh eyes might also help with testing ;)

     

    I totally agree with you.

    • 108 posts
    May 25, 2020 4:46 PM PDT

    I am very happy with this news letter PA 5 is one step closer and heading in the right direction. To hear that the center of the world has been ce=reated and all other zones established off of the center sounds great to me. Since as far as I know nothing has been shown outside of kingsreach this sounds like there is at the least a grayboxed setting for every in game zone due at launch. Previously I have heard alot of speculation weather or not the other continents have even been started but I think this statement says alot anyone else have any insight or thought on this part of the newsletter?

    • 147 posts
    May 25, 2020 8:17 PM PDT

    So it was asked what I meant when I said " Shh..  The radicals that plague these forums will attack you if you give honest feedback like that. "

    All you have to do is be a fair minded person and read some of the replies you see here on this thread. The rest is self-explanatory.

    You can break the radicals down into two groups. The brown-noser & the revile ( haters).  If you take the time to give honest feedback one of these two groups will attack you. Give criticism or question any thing that VR does and the brown-noser will be fast to grab their pitchfolks and their internet courage to attack you. Even when VR said THEY WANT HONEST FEEDBACK!!!! 

    Now the haters make no sense to me at all. They pledge to Pantheon only to always hate on the game. So give honest feedback in the form of praising VR for anything and they will grab their pitchfolks and internet courage to attack you.

    Now I liked this news letter for the most part. I'm going to continue giving honest feedback. Like when I openly say thing like " this is my opinion or when I say the way I interpreted that was. Knowing I'm going to get attack by the redicals that plague these forums. Because VR want honest feedback!!!

    • 49 posts
    May 26, 2020 2:08 AM PDT

    I don't like sunshine pumpers or the doom and gloom people either, like everything esle in life, too much of an extreme in any direction is bad. Though I am sure I lean toward the latter, I would like to think I am not overboard with things.

    Personally, I don't really care about PA5, as I don't know how many there are or how long they take (isn't PA4 on like 2 years now?). However, I don't think VR should realease anything before they are ready, as I want the game to be as good as reasonably possible, and hopefully successful. Also, there are three continents, but I have no idea how much they have done of continents 2 and 3 (even 1 really, but we have seen a lot of that). I just think I will move my personal expected release date to 2022 (was 2021), and maybe expect later.

    I am literally watching a The Saga of Lucimia dev vid, near three hours long right now, I definitely prefer Pantheon, in every aspect outside of new info (their youtube has ~6 and a half hours of footage from the last two months. Though I really liked Pantheon's Mastery showcase. I probably won't ever play Lucimia, but I do find watching these things sometimes helps. I think it has been 6-7 years since I played an MMO...