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Crafting Theory/Utility/Raid Crafting

    • 551 posts
    June 28, 2020 4:42 AM PDT

    philo said:

    That ties into itemizing content differently but the only thing that has to be balanced is exp.  There still has to be incentive for players (exp) but it doesn't have to be about loot.  I think we, as a community, focus on loot a bit to often.

    Multi group content doesn't have to have raid loot or boss quality loot if it is designed in a way that encourages exp gains instead.  That is an easy way for devs to provide players incentive without making it about loot (assuming there is some sort of benefit to exp even at max lvl). 

    It also has to be slightly better exp gain than just running 2 separate single groups in another area or people will just do that because it is simply easier to organize.  The exp gain does have to be well balanced.  Maybe this is why we don't see this type of content often?

    Separately, another benefit of this type of content is that it lasts longer than "standard" exp group content.  It can be balanced in a way that 2 or 3 groups can grind exp currently but in future expansions it becomes doable by 1 group as players increase their power.  This type of long term design is not utilized enough imho.   Older zones that become more accessable and more widely used an expansion or 2 down the line is possible but this type of implementation is rarely seen.  Anything that extends the life of content and keeps incentivizing players over the long run is beneficial imo.

    I liked the first half of your reply. But you lost me at the final one.

    Multigroup content is indeed less frequent. I recall only some open raidzones or large raidzones that start off with a split raidforce and team up further along the zone. 

    To try and keep this on topic...I would understand that whatever is obtainable in such areas is on par with single group content. It's really more about, what's your fancy here. What many games have tried to answer is the question of players a couple of years in the game, that want to do X2 content or X3. And most games have fallen short to fulfill that need. You're talking about experienced players, that want to be challenged or otherwise more regularly engage in contact larger than 1 group. And for the most part, that's purely because that want to feel challenged and a change of the 1group-scenery. They know raiding is out there and they either join in or pass on that aspect of the game. (for different reasons) But they still feel that hunger. So they might accept the loottable being on par with 1 group content. 

    I think, this multigroup content can offer a lot of variation for adventurers but also for crafters and gatherers/explorers. Raiding itself can still hold the crown. But at least you're providing that in between step that many will ask for after X time playing the game.

    When it comes to creating those multigroup (but not raid) content. I think we're looking at very vast or complex geography that allows 6 or more groups to fight in relative proximity of each other, without really having every mob camped. You don't want to see 4 parties of each 2-3 groups standing next or behind one another in line to take on the next mob. The scale of these things really needs to be extensive. You don't want to be able to overlook the entire area and placing 1 group content in between wouldn't make much sense either. 'Cause either a multigroup destroys that 1 group content in order to get to the next multigroup encounter or any reward from that 1 group content is disabled for parties larger than 1 group. Keeping those mobs/areas available to a party of 1 group, how and why that 1 party would want to venture into a zone with multigroup content, just for those specific areas is another question by itself. Also, there should be a lore-explanation why these areas are populated in such a manner. You could make it a criss cross of the two. 

    If multigroup content (not raidcontent) is implemented, it makes the most sense to have it in from the getgo of the game. Instead of having it added in later on as people might interact and expect different things from it then.

    Where you lost me (but this is going off topic); If you allow advanced players to form a 1 group party and succesfully complete multigroup content, you've created a grind for BiS. And if that's not available, it might turn out to a cash/xp run. Where you'll risk that the overall attitude would be; bring the least possible groupmembers and avoid bringing in more willing players outside of your own familiar group. If it's designed for 2 groups, it shouldn't really be possible to do it with less. Overpowered players, either will not receive any reward for it or need to mentor down and still form a multitude of groups to be succesful. A multiple group content isn't merely a dps check, but a mechanical/strategical challenge. Because, that is what the people that I've mentioned earlier are looking for, not purely dps checks. I would direct you to Dorotea's suggestion about scaling 1 group encounter into difficulty challenges as an alternative.


    This post was edited by Barin999 at June 28, 2020 4:43 AM PDT
    • 1626 posts
    June 28, 2020 7:12 AM PDT

    Barin999 said:

    I liked the first half of your reply. But you lost me at the final one.

    Where you lost me (but this is going off topic); If you allow advanced players to form a 1 group party and succesfully complete multigroup content, you've created a grind for BiS. And if that's not available, it might turn out to a cash/xp run. Where you'll risk that the overall attitude would be; bring the least possible groupmembers and avoid bringing in more willing players outside of your own familiar group. If it's designed for 2 groups, it shouldn't really be possible to do it with less. Overpowered players, either will not receive any reward for it or need to mentor down and still form a multitude of groups to be succesful. A multiple group content isn't merely a dps check, but a mechanical/strategical challenge. Because, that is what the people that I've mentioned earlier are looking for, not purely dps checks. I would direct you to Dorotea's suggestion about scaling 1 group encounter into difficulty challenges as an alternative.

    That last part where you got "lost" was just mentioning another benefit of non-raid multi group content.

    That being the extended viability of this type of content.

     

    Often times older high end content from 2 expansions ago is outdated and barely used.

    An expansion or 2 down the line (once the overall power of players has increased) that multi group exp camp type of content will then be viable for single groups when it would not have been possible before.

    .  This type of content is still desirable for players, just in different numbers.  What was an exp camp for 12 players 2 expansions ago becomes an exp camp for 6 players 2 years later if it is balanced well.  When loot is the priority like in raids there is a much better chance that the older content becomes outdated and less desirable.  Exp is easier to balance and can still provide incentive to players far down the line.

    I dont understand what you mean by "overpowered players" in relation to this discussion.  I think that is where the disconnect is?  I dont think you picked up that I was talking about extending the life of this type of content over the long run?  Did that explain it better?

    That part was a bit of a tangent.  It's just another benefit of multi group non raid content.