Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

A thought about Movement Speed and Perception

    • 1605 posts
    April 2, 2020 4:07 PM PDT

    Just a thought I had today:

    Traditionally in these games, we see players doing everything they can to move faster.  Whether it's a run speed buff like SoW, or a mount, or whatever - everyone is always looking to save time and get from place to place more quickly.

    Being quite honest, while I'm sure that many people don't see a problem with this, it's something that's always grated on me a little bit.  When speed buffs become the norm, rather than being special, you lose something from the experience of the world.  I mean, when was the last time you saw someone walking (rather than running) in a game if they weren't roleplaying?

    So, what if Perception triggers were more easily spotted if you were moving at a slower pace?  Meaning that if you wanted to take full advantage of the perception system to find hidden storylines (or hidden traps, or hidden treasure scavenging points, or whatever), you might actually *want* to move slower to increase your chances, instead of running at full speed all the time?

    Obviously, the speed buffs would still be there for when you really just needed to get someplace quickly.  But if you were doing something like searching a corner of Avendyr's Pass for some hidden treasure (as an example), you might want to click off that speed buff and actually turn on walk to make it easier to find.

     

    • 1684 posts
    April 2, 2020 4:15 PM PDT

    It could be made so that it effects your chance of noticing them based on your movement speed.  So the higher your skill, the more likley you are to notice easier ones even at fast speeds.

    • 1547 posts
    April 2, 2020 4:17 PM PDT

    Pretty good thought.  I like it.

    • 2621 posts
    April 2, 2020 4:20 PM PDT

    Eh, I think this would do little to nothing to slow players down and many would still "game" the system or look up when and where to slow down. 

     

    Slowing people down on icy/slippery floors? Sure. Slowing people down with certain debuffs that bleed you the more you move? Sure. But trying to slow players in more just to hope it gives them a more enriched experience of the world is a bad look.

    • 487 posts
    April 2, 2020 5:03 PM PDT
    Makes me think of Classic WoW and how the game pre-level 40 is a run simulator. That was pretty damn awful on replayability, the worst part for sure.
    • 1547 posts
    April 2, 2020 5:31 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Eh, I think this would do little to nothing to slow players down and many would still "game" the system or look up when and where to slow down. 

     

    That is a given.

    • 762 posts
    April 2, 2020 5:45 PM PDT

    Nephele said:

    Just a thought I had today:

    Traditionally in these games, we see players doing everything they can to move faster.  Whether it's a run speed buff like SoW, or a mount, or whatever - everyone is always looking to save time and get from place to place more quickly.

    Being quite honest, while I'm sure that many people don't see a problem with this, it's something that's always grated on me a little bit.  When speed buffs become the norm, rather than being special, you lose something from the experience of the world.  I mean, when was the last time you saw someone walking (rather than running) in a game if they weren't roleplaying?

    So, what if Perception triggers were more easily spotted if you were moving at a slower pace?  Meaning that if you wanted to take full advantage of the perception system to find hidden storylines (or hidden traps, or hidden treasure scavenging points, or whatever), you might actually *want* to move slower to increase your chances, instead of running at full speed all the time?

    Obviously, the speed buffs would still be there for when you really just needed to get someplace quickly.  But if you were doing something like searching a corner of Avendyr's Pass for some hidden treasure (as an example), you might want to click off that speed buff and actually turn on walk to make it easier to find.

     

    Sounds like a pretty cool idea Neph! It really falls into place with regards to the system, trying to get people to explore a bit and not just B line for the goal in front of them.  I can see sprinting removing 50% (random number chosen) of your current perception skill that may dip you under the required perception for a prompt of whatever your running past...

    So player has 50 perception skill 

    they are coming up to a spot that requires 40 Pereption to prompt a notification on a "Iksar's still living but mysteriously severed head"

    Player is sprinting and goes straight past it because their perception was lowered to only 25 during the sprint

    or 

    Player goes past it at "normal" speed and pings it still maintaining their 50 perception skill.

     

    Like you, I am always wishing people would just slow down in MMO's, rushing and jumping and rushing and spinning around in circles like they have some fire ants nesting in their butt, it is infectious or more so people feel obliged to follow suit keeping up with the fastest runner and before you know it everyone in the group is rushing so they dont get left behind, missing so much content and so many of those peer through the wall moments that Cohh had in that earlier stream.

    While i get what Iksar means and often a feature effectively forcing a players action can often feel out of place or tiresome, i feel like this is one of those ideas that matches up with the purpose of perception as well as VR's desire for players to slow down a bit and explore things they see in the distance and in general absorb a bit more rich, diverse & hidden content rather than rush on through it.

    Great idea Neph!

    • 378 posts
    April 2, 2020 6:03 PM PDT

    I like it.  Whether people look up spoilers or not is up to them.  I'd like the game to be created based on the idea that people will not be looking things up.  We don't need to cater to those who want the easy way out.  So, yes, I like the idea.

    • 1127 posts
    April 2, 2020 7:38 PM PDT

    Both perception objectives and harvest nodes could require a player to be within x distance for Y seconds in order to spot it. The higher your detection skill the larger the distance range and the shorter amount of time you need to be within range before you detect it.

     

    Moving at mount/sow speed will always have you in range of the target less time than it would take for you to spot said target. There could also be a modifier on the time required if you have certain speed buffs, basically a representation that you are out of time sync with the rest of the world.

     

    • 360 posts
    April 2, 2020 8:48 PM PDT

    i like the idea, in a way.  I do not want to walk thruout the world thinking I may miss something if I am running or may miss even more if I happen to have a speed buff. 

    I would rather have PARTS of the perception to need  Walk vsd Run. 

    example: if the innitial perception said:  if you are interested in learning more, walk among the fires, stop when you smell the sulfur and set your gaze to the north... blah blah 

    lame example just trying to get the idea of PARTS needing you to Slow Down and essentially 'stop and smell the roses'

    great post. good thinking

    i really hate that they will add (ground) mounts to this game. I really wish they would remove that part of the game. completely. 

    • 485 posts
    April 3, 2020 3:27 AM PDT

    I'd take it a step further. If you're on a mount, harvesting nodes or interactables are disabled from view or targetting.

    If your runspeed without a mount exceeds a certain treshold, you'll have the same effect.

    This might be easier to implement and might require less mechanic design behind the scenes.

    It then bottles down to, if you want to explore the land, you go on foot and notice the world. If you want to travel faster from point a to b, no problem, but you won't notice the interactables. 

    Did you ride into an area you think you'll have some sort of business, mount off and explore the area and get your updates/harvestables etc.

    In the same line; I would disable the majority of perception pings..other than the key story pings. (if you see what I mean) A ping that opens a story/questline would still be available but any that build off that initial ping, would not be noticeable while riding a mount.

    An idea would be to have a run and walk speed for that mount. So you'd be moving at slower pace (below a runspeed of X) in order to get those interactable things in view. But as you choose that other movement speed (not slow), that will stop.


    This post was edited by Barin999 at April 3, 2020 3:29 AM PDT
    • 1707 posts
    April 3, 2020 5:23 AM PDT

    A very good thought. It would be very good to bring meaning to moving at normal speed rather than have it be looked upon as just a mundane thing to be avoided whenever possible.

    • 67 posts
    April 3, 2020 12:16 PM PDT

    I like the idea a lot.

     

    • 762 posts
    April 5, 2020 2:38 AM PDT

    Flapp said:

    i like the idea, in a way.  I do not want to walk thruout the world thinking I may miss something if I am running or may miss even more if I happen to have a speed buff. 

    I'd imagine a full time sprinter will get the ping eventually as their skill goes up, it would just be later in game once their skill is high enough (with the speed reduction effecting it) to still get the ping.

    Especially with an emphasis for players to come back to lower level zones and starting citys

    • 79 posts
    April 5, 2020 5:42 AM PDT
    I think you're on to something here. It is my opinion also that movement speed increases shouldn't be "the norm". If an item such as j-boots exist it should be a long quest line and it should be very limited like say 15% max. I also think that a druids Sow (if that's what it's called) should be more of a "requires concentration" effect in that you could increase run speed of those around you. Not just some buff that can be cast on anyone.
    • 2160 posts
    April 5, 2020 8:09 AM PDT

    I don't really care for the idea of tying negative consequences into such mundane things. Not everything you do in a game should be a heavily weighted decision.

    • 1893 posts
    April 5, 2020 8:13 AM PDT

    Liav said:

    I don't really care for the idea of tying negative consequences into such mundane things. Not everything you do in a game should be a heavily weighted decision.

    I have to agree here. 

    • 581 posts
    April 5, 2020 1:08 PM PDT

    I think it's a great idea, would love to see it.

    I hope that in addition, SOME perception pings might only trigger if a player is standing still for brief moment. Running past without stopping doesn't get it, even when your skill is maxed.

    • 1173 posts
    April 5, 2020 1:20 PM PDT

    Great idea.

    • 169 posts
    April 8, 2020 7:53 PM PDT

    take time to smell the roses and enjoy the game. it's not going anywhere soon, so enjoy it.

  • April 8, 2020 9:28 PM PDT

    You know...this isn't the only thread I have seen where someone is trying to add some severe punishment to other players just because they don't or won't play the game the way that said person posting plays; this also isn't the only time I have seen so many people agree with something so ridiculous and near demand it be in the game. My question for this, is why? what does it matter what another person does in the game? Why does it matter if a person is mounted or not? what does it matter if that person wants to run from one point to another? why rob them of parts of a game, a game they have paid for, mind you, just because they don’t or won't play it the way you do? Why deprive them of aspects of a game they have put money into just because they won't go at YOUR pace? why? I'm genuinely curious as to why there is such an agreement on this. No one tells you how to play other games, so why do you feel the need to tell people how to play this one? If you feel like you're being rush in...let’s say WoW...then by all means find someone else to group with or go at your own pace. If you don't like mounts...then don't get one. No one is going to force you to get a mount in order to play with them, and if they do, then tell them off and go find people that play the game like you do and at your pace. When you start denying people parts of a game that they pay a sub for, or even put money into in backing it, then that should be seen as an issue; as they are just as much allowed to play this game the way they want, like you are, without punishment. (and within the rules of the game of course)

    • 762 posts
    April 8, 2020 10:01 PM PDT

    OCastitatisLilium said:

    You know...this isn't the only thread I have seen where someone is trying to add some severe punishment to other players just because they don't or won't play the game the way that said person posting plays; this also isn't the only time I have seen so many people agree with something so ridiculous and near demand it be in the game. My question for this, is why? what does it matter what another person does in the game? Why does it matter if a person is mounted or not? what does it matter if that person wants to run from one point to another? why rob them of parts of a game, a game they have paid for, mind you, just because they don’t or won't play it the way you do? Why deprive them of aspects of a game they have put money into just because they won't go at YOUR pace? why? I'm genuinely curious as to why there is such an agreement on this. No one tells you how to play other games, so why do you feel the need to tell people how to play this one? If you feel like you're being rush in...let’s say WoW...then by all means find someone else to group with or go at your own pace. If you don't like mounts...then don't get one. No one is going to force you to get a mount in order to play with them, and if they do, then tell them off and go find people that play the game like you do and at your pace. When you start denying people parts of a game that they pay a sub for, or even put money into in backing it, then that should be seen as an issue; as they are just as much allowed to play this game the way they want, like you are, without punishment. (and within the rules of the game of course)

    Its a great question OCL

    Its just a shared experience with people here that MMO's seem to deteriorate into a perma rush.  Rush to Endgame, Rush to the next Quest, Rush to the Boss, Rush to the Loot... 

    The consensus amongst the people you're pointing out posting here on this thread is that a system that doesn't stop people rushing, but more so tries to give them a reason to slow down, is not a bad thing for the general feel of the game. 

    We are not talking about a system that turns off your ablitiy to run, that would force people to play in a particular way.  It's a system that says if you are more likely to stop and smell the flowers from time to time, you are more likely to catch a perception ping.  The perception system is really about noticing things prior to being told to notice them, so really i cant see how this concept doesnt fit into it perfectly. 

    Picture this, your running along a road at full speed, not too concerned about perception pings as there is nothing interesting around you, no ruins, no massive tree in the middle of a forrest, no dead bodies laying around... so you keep running at full pace.  Up ahead on the path you see a broken down cart, with a few dead bodies littered around it, so instead of continuing to sprint and running through the middle of it, not really paying attention but just waiting to see if your UI tells you if you should be interested. You and your group members slow down to investigate and after walking around checking a few bodies you get a ping. 

    I dont think there is any demanding going on here, it was just an idea that resonates with a bunch of people (including me) and clearly doesnt resonate with another bunch of people (including you) thats ok!

    If we continue to discuss the pro's and con's some of our positions might change! 

     


    This post was edited by Hokanu at April 8, 2020 10:03 PM PDT
    • 581 posts
    April 8, 2020 10:26 PM PDT

    OCastitatisLilium said: what does it matter what another person does in the game?

    Do you support the idea that when a new player creates a character, they should be able to choose what level that character starts at, even starting at level cap? Should they be able to have all skills and abilities capped if they wish? Perhaps they could also have the Best in Slot item for every piece of gear? Would you object to VR posting the exact details of every quest - how to start it, how to beat it - on the website, so anyone who chooses can just follow the instructions and have total success?

    If you disagree with any of that, then you know WHY it matters to me what other players do. The real question then is the matter of degree of limitation, not whether there should be limitation.

    OCastitatisLilium said:  (and within the rules of the game of course)

    So, you agree that a game should have SOME rules at least. That's good, no game would exist without rules. Rules are the foundation of every game. They are what make chess different from rugby. Pantheon is still being built. The rules have not been finished yet. VR shows us the rules they are creating, and ASKS us for our opinions on them. Do you object to us voicing our opinions on what rules we would like to have in the game (that we have paid and will be paying for)?

     

     

     

    • 350 posts
    April 8, 2020 11:19 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    OCastitatisLilium said: what does it matter what another person does in the game?

    Do you support the idea that when a new player creates a character, they should be able to choose what level that character starts at, even starting at level cap? Should they be able to have all skills and abilities capped if they wish? Perhaps they could also have the Best in Slot item for every piece of gear? Would you object to VR posting the exact details of every quest - how to start it, how to beat it - on the website, so anyone who chooses can just follow the instructions and have total success?

    If you disagree with any of that, then you know WHY it matters to me what other players do. The real question then is the matter of degree of limitation, not whether there should be limitation.

    OCastitatisLilium said:  (and within the rules of the game of course)

    So, you agree that a game should have SOME rules at least. That's good, no game would exist without rules. Rules are the foundation of every game. They are what make chess different from rugby. Pantheon is still being built. The rules have not been finished yet. VR shows us the rules they are creating, and ASKS us for our opinions on them. Do you object to us voicing our opinions on what rules we would like to have in the game (that we have paid and will be paying for)?

     

     

     

    That's quite the strawman. Just because someone doesn't want players forced to walk slow isn't the same as advocating for players to bypass the entire game's progression system. I don't have a problem with perception quests chance rate, or perhaps range, tied to run speed. As you level up your area of perception can increase and you can have it tied to the level of the perception quest. If I have a high level perception I would easily, while at top run speed, find a perception quest I greatly out level but a high level perception quest would need me to move at a slower speed. 

    • 1941 posts
    April 9, 2020 7:34 AM PDT

    Liav said:

    I don't really care for the idea of tying negative consequences into such mundane things. Not everything you do in a game should be a heavily weighted decision.

    Agreed.  Terrible idea and one that would mean nothing in the long run as, sooner than later, every location based perception trigger will be mapped out and posted on a thousand different wiki sites.