Vandraad said:Grimseethe said:You can easily fix this by giving each race an additional 2 classes, exlcuding humans, elfs and dark myr ofcourse they have enough, this will give players much more freedom of choice.
Ok, so the questions I have of you are why 2? And why do you think Elf and Dark Myr have 'enough' such that they couldn't use a few more?
I suspect that you have a specific class/race combo that isn't available so you want that one included for you but you can't be seen to ask for it selfishly so you write it like you're trying to benefit everyone.
So the Dark Myr lack 3 classes and the Elves lack 5 and I'm sure someone out there really wants to be a Dark Myr Paladin or Shaman or an Elf Cleric but your proposal is a big 'sucks to be you' because, in your opinion, they have enough options.
you hit this right on the head and his followers are also wording it in various was to try to confuse people into beliving why there should be no race/class restrictions at all.
Grimseethe said:Vandraad said:Grimseethe said:You can easily fix this by giving each race an additional 2 classes, exlcuding humans, elfs and dark myr ofcourse they have enough, this will give players much more freedom of choice.
Ok, so the questions I have of you are why 2? And why do you think Elf and Dark Myr have 'enough' such that they couldn't use a few more?
I suspect that you have a specific class/race combo that isn't available so you want that one included for you but you can't be seen to ask for it selfishly so you write it like you're trying to benefit everyone.
So the Dark Myr lack 3 classes and the Elves lack 5 and I'm sure someone out there really wants to be a Dark Myr Paladin or Shaman or an Elf Cleric but your proposal is a big 'sucks to be you' because, in your opinion, they have enough options
1 more 2 more 3 more, i dont really care, i just feel it needs to be more.
I left out elf and dark myr because they can go alot of classes already, but not everything, which feels like good balance to me.
Even if i could be an archai direlord or necromancer, id still make this post.
Devs need to think long term, gamers are fickle, 10 years from now no one will be impressed that humans can go everything while orgres can be 4 things, lore friendly or otherwise.
If every race could go as many classes as elf or dark myr, that would be a perfect amount of restriction in my opinion.
SO Grimseethe you mean your fickle and you want things to help yourself and a small group of players min/max your way through to endgame,at the same time ruining the game for the rest of the community? nice try....and also stop using the phrase the devs need to think long-term. wait wait wait, I seen this sentence from more then a few times from various people from a few different MMO's before they got ruined, because they got what they wanted and demanded more...
Trasak said:I've always been a fan of consequences rather than restrictions.
Want to be an ogre mage? Prepare to have a weak main stat and need to travel to a city with a mages guild in order to train, oh yeah do you have the faction for that?
The class race restriction then turn into class/race optimizations. This of course means that starting stats need to have an actual effect of class balance and if you want to do something unusual you need to work for it. This becomes easier to justify and build mechanics for with the Progeny system than straight out of the box.
I like the way you think and share your sentiment. Choices that have consequences can be interesting and engaging. Player agency is a beautiful thing and is one of the biggest draws of open-world gameplay, for me. I have played MMO's where oddball race/class choices had serious consequences and it went a long way toward making the world feel alive. If you saw a max-level ogre mage, for example, there was a measure of respect you would have for that player. It showed that they were willing to commit to a character that didn't subscribe to the meta and had the patience and dedication to overcome the many obstacles that stood in their way toward achieving max-level. As I have stated previously in this thread ... there are plenty of people who embrace challenging gameplay. I have some really fond memories of characters who purposely went down that path and I hope that progeny can give players an outlet for creativity and interesting non-meta character development. Bring on the roleplayers and challenge seekers!
Grimseethe said:
1 more 2 more 3 more, i dont really care, i just feel it needs to be more.
I left out elf and dark myr because they can go alot of classes already, but not everything, which feels like good balance to me.
Even if i could be an archai direlord or necromancer, id still make this post.
Devs need to think long term, gamers are fickle, 10 years from now no one will be impressed that humans can go everything while orgres can be 4 things, lore friendly or otherwise.
If every race could go as many classes as elf or dark myr, that would be a perfect amount of restriction in my opinion.
Wait a minute, did anyone seriously thought that a class/race matrix was here to "impress" people ?
In the long run, there might be NEW classes wich will be enough entertainment in working towards not to gouge and gut the lore just for "a few players attached to the visual of a race but not it's concept".
oneADseven said:Oldwargoat39 said:also do not project your feelings and sentiments onto my statements. they are mine and not yours to put emotions to.
You need to do some reflection. You have been projecting your feelings and sentiments onto others throughout this entire thread and several others.
Oldwargoat39 said:People are using his passing on as a way to ruin something that Brad wanted to see finished.
Absolutely appalling that you would go there.
Oldwargoat39 said:and I agree with you Iksar on this one, butt these people who are not even backing the game that want the class/race restritions removed to benifit them, they do not want to spend time doing the progeny thing, as it will take too much time out of there day raiding in other MMO's. I do not consider these peole part of the community honestly they are only here for the benifits and that is it..more like leach players then actual community members honestly.
I have seen this type of comment from you quite a few times since you joined the community less than 40 days ago. Let's review:
Oldwargoat39 said:I agree with you, but i do smell something fishy here. I don't think they actually donate, I think he is just someone who paid for forum access and figured out how to make it look like they backed the project.
Oldwargoat39 said:What the op is trying to petition for(and btw not a backer) is to adjust the class/race restrictions to power game throught it just to get to endgame using so-called experance,ego, and authrative words to bully people in the community and convince the devs to change the race/class resrtictions to benifit him and a small group of players!!! I would take his words with a grain of salt at this point.
Oldwargoat39 said:Are you backing the game? I do know the community is posative and the people who are negative just pay for access to the foums and not supporting the game..
Oldwargoat39 said:are you backing the game?
Are you backing the game? or are you just paying to hop on the forums just to spew negative behavior?
Oldwargoat39 said:I am seeing what you want. NO stop trying to min/max this game before this game comes out and no again I rather see the class restrictions based on race kept in place as they are now. Just deal with it and stop trying to change things to benifit a small playerbase that is trying ruin it for the rest of us. Funny how you do not show your profile oh wait another forum board rider and not a backer....again...
Oldwargoat39 said:People (some of whom I doubt they ever pledged any money to it.) who want the development time to speed up for there sake and not for the sake of the entire community are wrong. I think revoking access to the people who just pay for forum access and let the people who actually backed the game use the forums and right away you should see a good amount of negativity go away.These outside influancers who have not put any money down except to access the forums and to cause as much havok as they can till VR listens to one of these chuckleheads then blam!
Oldwargoat39 said:if someone from VR reads this please listen more to your actual backer that post on the forums then people who just access your forums to create negativity and hate.I have faith in VR can accomplish this task and listening to outside influancers who have not backed this project, should not be given a voice at all and we all need to relax alittle,sit back grab a cool beverage and watch what is going on currently and let VR do there magic properly.
Oldwargoat39 said:I just don't want this game becomeing what current MMOs have become because of the kids who cry loud enough are being listened to or the weasels that are just on the forums but have not backed the game and are influencing others...
How many times are you going to try and play that card? You think it's fair to call other people leaches and weasels because you assume they haven't pledged to the game? Please hop off your high horse and practice what you preach.
Nope and you trying to shame me and other things do not work on me so go sit down and be quiet child.also taking what I am saying out of context is not a cool thing to do to people. your going to make people not like you real fast..
Jothany said:Oldwargoat39 said:Darch said: All of the arguing is mute... Joppa has already said that they are making some changes to the Race/Class matrix.Provide proof to your statement with links to show that what your saying is true or what you just stated is invalid..
19:50 to 23:30
"yes we will be revisiting it and yes we will most likely be making tweaks along the way because - just because we've come to those conclusions doesn't mean that ..as the lore and other thoughts and ideas surrounding the game continue to evolve and mature that those previous decisions don't change...[explains the recent change to allow Archai to become summoners]..So yes, we do revisit that list, there's other ones in mind that we're looking at and working through"
Oldwargoat39 said: I do know the community is posative and the people who are negative just pay for access to the foums and not supporting the game..
Provide proof to your statement with links to show that what your saying is true or what you just stated is invalid..
This is what I have been asking for provide the proof and I am glad you have this Jothany, and I respect you for that. As per using brads passing it is a shame(and it pains me as well), but he was using brads death to hide behind silently because he knew the conversation would lead in that direction and that is what he was betting on it. He used it as a tool and a shield to get someone to say it knowing all too well that if someone did bring up his death you folks were going to react and condem the other person for bringing it up. So who is the worse? the person bringing it up or the person using it as a tool and a sheild to hide behind? me using a dead person to hide behind while using it as a tool is far worse.
As per the other statements with making profiles private and knowing who is a backer? I don't why people hide it in the first place? If people want to show your support don't hide it be proud. I do understand privacy and how some people don't want other people to bug them becuase they are a actual backer of the game. I had a few people ask me questions already and when I told them to "just back the game" they replied with "they can't" , at that point I just deleate there message because I am not going to be a proxy for someone else had someone try that with me already and I am a firm beliver that you use you own words and not use other to convey them.
About me being on here for only 40 days: I was looking in at the forums for about a good 6 months at least the before I pledged. I didn't have the cash availble as that time to back this game because of a business comitments (hobby and game store with a room for just PC gaming if your wondering) when that fell through I had the cash to put into this game. I would have backed this game alot sooner if it wasn't for said deal falling through.
Oldwargoat39 said:Nope and you trying to shame me and other things do not work on me so go sit down and be quiet child.
I asked you to reflect on your own actions, hop off your high horse, and practice what you preach. I am not surprised by this response. You have tried to downplay what other people have to say at least 9 times in the 40 days that you have had an account here, and most/all of that was based on unfound assumptions. Just because someone has their profile set to private doesn't mean they haven't pledged to the game. Every single person who posts on this forum has paid for the privilege to do so even if they didn't directly purchase a pledge package. (Some folks have contributed hundreds of dollars toward the recurring subscription fees.) Beyond that, the value of a monetary pledge has virtually zero relevance while discussing the merit of an argument. Seeing how often you tend to bring that angle up, it seems like you have a really skewed perspective on what matters. Please stop with the strawman arguments, the ad hominem, the slippery slopes, the burden of proof, and bandwagon logical fallacies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating your opinion or even getting into a passionate debate about something but you should always be considerate of others. If you're going to trash threads with a bunch of nonsense then please be prepared to be called out on it, especially when you try to make things personal.
Oldwargoat39 said:As per using brads passing it is a shame(and it pains me as well), but he was using brads death to hide behind silently because he knew the conversation would lead in that direction and that is what he was betting on it. He used it as a tool and a shield to get someone to say it knowing all too well that if someone did bring up his death you folks were going to react and condem the other person for bringing it up. So who is the worse? the person bringing it up or the person using it as a tool and a sheild to hide behind? me using a dead person to hide behind while using it as a tool is far worse.
Who are you referencing as "he" in this post? How in the hell are you coming up with these conclusions? You need a reality check.
oneADseven said:Oldwargoat39 said:Nope and you trying to shame me and other things do not work on me so go sit down and be quiet child.
I asked you to reflect on your own actions, hop off your high horse, and practice what you preach. I am not surprised by this response. You have tried to downplay what other people have to say at least 9 times in the 40 days that you have had an account here, and most/all of that was based on unfound assumptions. Just because someone has their profile set to private doesn't mean they haven't pledged to the game. Every single person who posts on this forum has paid for the privilege to do so even if they didn't directly purchase a pledge package. (Some folks have contributed hundreds of dollars toward the recurring subscription fees.) Beyond that, the value of a monetary pledge has virtually zero relevance while discussing the merit of an argument. Seeing how often you tend to bring that angle up, it seems like you have a really skewed perspective on what matters. Please stop with the strawman arguments, the ad hominem, the slippery slopes, the burden of proof, and bandwagon logical fallacies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating your opinion or even getting into a passionate debate about something but you should always be considerate of others. If you're going trash threads with a bunch of nonsense then please be prepared to be called out on it, especially when you try to make things personal.
And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
oneADseven said:Oldwargoat39 said:Nope and you trying to shame me and other things do not work on me so go sit down and be quiet child.
I asked you to reflect on your own actions, hop off your high horse, and practice what you preach. I am not surprised by this response. You have tried to downplay what other people have to say at least 9 times in the 40 days that you have had an account here, and most/all of that was based on unfound assumptions. Just because someone has their profile set to private doesn't mean they haven't pledged to the game. Every single person who posts on this forum has paid for the privilege to do so even if they didn't directly purchase a pledge package. (Some folks have contributed hundreds of dollars toward the recurring subscription fees.) Beyond that, the value of a monetary pledge has virtually zero relevance while discussing the merit of an argument. Seeing how often you tend to bring that angle up, it seems like you have a really skewed perspective on what matters. Please stop with the strawman arguments, the ad hominem, the slippery slopes, the burden of proof, and bandwagon logical fallacies. There is absolutely nothing wrong with stating your opinion or even getting into a passionate debate about something but you should always be considerate of others. If you're going trash threads with a bunch of nonsense then please be prepared to be called out on it, especially when you try to make things personal.
Oldwargoat39 said:As per using brads passing it is a shame(and it pains me as well), but he was using brads death to hide behind silently because he knew the conversation would lead in that direction and that is what he was betting on it. He used it as a tool and a shield to get someone to say it knowing all too well that if someone did bring up his death you folks were going to react and condem the other person for bringing it up. So who is the worse? the person bringing it up or the person using it as a tool and a sheild to hide behind? me using a dead person to hide behind while using it as a tool is far worse.
Who are you referencing as "he" in this post? How in the hell are you coming up with these conclusions? You need a reality check.
He is refering to the OP who make this topic ok is that clear enough for you?
Who is on a high horse? stop projecting onto me what your doing! your harassing me at this point so stop.
Oldwargoat39 said:And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
Believe it or not, you actually don't have the right to say whatever you want. This ain't 'murica, it's a video game forum.
You're kind of an awful person, based on some of the things you've said in this thread. You reap what you sow. /shrug
Liav said:Oldwargoat39 said:And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
Believe it or not, you actually don't have the right to say whatever you want. This ain't 'murica, it's a video game forum.
You're kind of an awful person, based on some of the things you've said in this thread. You reap what you sow. /shrug
ok w/e moving on
Oldwargoat39 said:
And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
Everyone who posts on this forum has a right to express their opinion but for whatever reason, you keep trying to downplay what other people are saying based on what you think their pledge status is. You make a comment here about not stifling others but that is exactly what you have tried to do, multiple times, and based on what? A random whim that is both wrong and unjustified in most/all cases?
Oldwargoat39 said:
He is refering to the OP who make this topic ok is that clear enough for you?
Who is on a high horse? stop projecting onto me what your doing! your harassing me at this point so stop.
I'm the one that is projecting? You can't be serious. Do you even think about what you type before posting? You just accused Grimseethe of:
Oldwargoat39 said:As per using brads passing it is a shame(and it pains me as well), but he was using brads death to hide behind silently because he knew the conversation would lead in that direction and that is what he was betting on it. He used it as a tool and a shield to get someone to say it knowing all too well that if someone did bring up his death you folks were going to react and condem the other person for bringing it up.
How could you possibly draw this kind of conclusion based on what he has posted in this thread? You're way out of line here and rather than taking responsibility and making a correction like you just said you would do (apologizing to Grimseethe for your despicable projection on him) you double down on some seriously awful logic and cry foul. Unbelievable.
Liav said:Oldwargoat39 said:And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
Believe it or not, you actually don't have the right to say whatever you want. This ain't 'murica, it's a video game forum.
You're kind of an awful person, based on some of the things you've said in this thread. You reap what you sow. /shrug
and wait the morality police is here to question me..Please your no better then next person we all have faults so don't try to bring mine ot the forfront to make yourself look better.
oneADseven said:Oldwargoat39 said:
And i do take responsibilty for my actions and words if I am wrong I am wrong and make the corrections and move on and not hover over them like you and other like to do. You might not like what I have to say but they are my opinion and I do have the right to express them and not stifle others.
Everyone who posts on this forum has a right to express their opinion but for whatever reason, you keep trying to downplay what other people are saying based on what you think their pledge status is. You make a comment here about not stifling others but that is exactly what you have tried to do, multiple times, and based on what? A random whim that is both wrong and unjustified in most/all cases?
Oldwargoat39 said:He is refering to the OP who make this topic ok is that clear enough for you?
Who is on a high horse? stop projecting onto me what your doing! your harassing me at this point so stop.
I'm the one that is projecting? You can't be serious. Do you even think about what you type before posting? You just accused Grimseethe of:
Oldwargoat39 said:As per using brads passing it is a shame(and it pains me as well), but he was using brads death to hide behind silently because he knew the conversation would lead in that direction and that is what he was betting on it. He used it as a tool and a shield to get someone to say it knowing all too well that if someone did bring up his death you folks were going to react and condem the other person for bringing it up.
How could you possibly draw this kind of conclusion based on what he has posted in this thread? You're way out of line here and rather than taking responsibility and making a correction like you just said you would do (apologizing to Grimseethe for your despicable projection on him) you double down on some seriously awful logic and cry foul. Unbelievable.
I was calling him out for wanting to change the game's lore based race/class restrictions to fit his needs, because of a race/class combo wasa not availible to him.. How am I a shitty person for doing that?
@1AD7, @Liav, and everyone else I would just leave Oldwargoat to his corner and leave him there, this topic is very sad to hear that someone thinks someone would use another's death as a reason to do anything, let him live in his wirkd while we live in our world and we can discuss things like usual.
@Liav you can call me dense and rude af if it makes you feel better, and @1AD7 we need to have more debates, I've been missing them lol.
Riahuf22 said:@1AD7, @Liav, and everyone else I would just leave Oldwargoat to his corner and leave him there, this topic is very sad to hear that someone thinks someone would use another's death as a reason to do anything, let him live in his wirkd while we live in our world and we can discuss things like usual.
@Liav you can call me dense and rude af if it makes you feel better, and @1AD7 we need to have more debates, I've been missing them lol.
SO you dehmanizing me as well why thank you very much.
Oldwargoat39 said:Riahuf22 said:@1AD7, @Liav, and everyone else I would just leave Oldwargoat to his corner and leave him there, this topic is very sad to hear that someone thinks someone would use another's death as a reason to do anything, let him live in his wirkd while we live in our world and we can discuss things like usual.
@Liav you can call me dense and rude af if it makes you feel better, and @1AD7 we need to have more debates, I've been missing them lol.
so dehumanizing me as well ok fine your not morally better then anyone else..
You been going around and accusing someone of using someone death so they can what? Change Race/Class restrictions? Honestly if you feel like I'm dehumanizing you good, maybe you need a little bit more to get a reality check, quite honestly i hope the everyone from here on out will simply ignore you and hope it makes you a better person, and not accuse other of using peoples death to get some kind of advantage, what if their family heard you saying all this, dude you are so inconsiderate it makes me sick.
Riahuf22 said:Oldwargoat39 said:Riahuf22 said:@1AD7, @Liav, and everyone else I would just leave Oldwargoat to his corner and leave him there, this topic is very sad to hear that someone thinks someone would use another's death as a reason to do anything, let him live in his wirkd while we live in our world and we can discuss things like usual.
@Liav you can call me dense and rude af if it makes you feel better, and @1AD7 we need to have more debates, I've been missing them lol.
so dehumanizing me as well ok fine your not morally better then anyone else..
You been going around and accusing someone of using someone death so they can what? Change Race/Class restrictions? Honestly if you feel like I'm dehumanizing you good, maybe you need a little bit more to get a reality check, quite honestly i hope the everyone from here on out will simply ignore you and hope it makes you a better person, and not accuse other of using peoples death to get some kind of advantage, what if their family heard you saying all this, dude you are so inconsiderate it makes me sick.
and don't care
Oldwargoat39 said:Riahuf22 said:Oldwargoat39 said:Riahuf22 said:@1AD7, @Liav, and everyone else I would just leave Oldwargoat to his corner and leave him there, this topic is very sad to hear that someone thinks someone would use another's death as a reason to do anything, let him live in his wirkd while we live in our world and we can discuss things like usual.
@Liav you can call me dense and rude af if it makes you feel better, and @1AD7 we need to have more debates, I've been missing them lol.
so dehumanizing me as well ok fine your not morally better then anyone else..
You been going around and accusing someone of using someone death so they can what? Change Race/Class restrictions? Honestly if you feel like I'm dehumanizing you good, maybe you need a little bit more to get a reality check, quite honestly i hope the everyone from here on out will simply ignore you and hope it makes you a better person, and not accuse other of using peoples death to get some kind of advantage, what if their family heard you saying all this, dude you are so inconsiderate it makes me sick.
your SJW tactics dont work on me...
Trasak said:
I've always been a fan of consequences rather than restrictions.
Want to be an ogre mage? Prepare to have a weak main stat and need to travel to a city with a mages guild in order to train, oh yeah do you have the faction for that?
The class race restriction then turn into class/race optimizations. This of course means that starting stats need to have an actual effect of class balance and if you want to do something unusual you need to work for it. This becomes easier to justify and build mechanics for with the Progeny system than straight out of the box.
Although I am favor of the current restrictions, since I understand why they are, I agree that race should matter. Instead of restrictions, make the race really matter. Races with title to know physically strength can be a warrior, but not nearly as well as others. Simply make the choices matter.
Liav said:I was wondering how long it would take to get "SJW" out of you.
Anyways, it'd probably be a good idea for me to stop posting here so I don't get banned. I think anyone reading this thread has already seen enough to form an opinion.
Have fun!
what do you mean by you???
Oldwargoat39 said:So what the people in this game are trying to request is some that would invalidate one of the core tenants of the game? And we Should let the devs finish the for the late Brad Mcqaid's sake before asking for anything honestly.Let's see his last thing he was working on finished to the end honestly. People are using his passing on as a way to ruin something that Brad wanted to see finished.
Sadly, too many people here weaken their arguments by quoting the tenets and developers intentions. You would think basing arguments on the stated tenants would help, but it usually hurts. The quoters of the tenets/intentions too often pick and choose whichever ones they feel fit their needs and ignore the rest. Then, they bastardize the words and inject meaning where it doesn't exist.
We see this so much in political and religious discussions. Unfortunately, so many people on the internet, especially gamers, bring this tactic to the forums as well.
VR has their plan. It's their world. Getting all hatey with each other is not going to convince VR to change their kind. Do any of you think the way you disrespect each other will convince VR of your view's superiority?
How about we all just be civil, state our viewpoints logically, and accept that others disagree? VR is going to build THEIR game. I am sure a completely toxic forum environment will not help them get more investors and get the game done sooner. These type of arguments just make the customer base look childish and toxic.