Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

PantheonPlus Joppa Interview Stream

    • 839 posts
    March 18, 2020 5:17 AM PDT

     @riahuf it was an awesome steam! :) 


    This post was edited by Hokanu at March 18, 2020 6:17 AM PDT
    • 228 posts
    March 18, 2020 8:27 AM PDT

    Fragile said:

    If classes aren't homogenized, then you won't be able to handle any issue. Also it takes skill to know what to use and when to use it. People always think (or at least it comes off that way) having more options/decisions make it easier...when in fact, if balanced correctly with cooldowns and class resources (and design) it adds a much higher level of complexity on what to do in any given scenario, because those choices will have a cost. When you remove those decisions/choices altogether - it is then in turn, much easier. For example, a wizard doesn't have evac loaded because he has Root up instead. Now instead of choosing to try and CC mobs or Evac (or die), the decision (root only) will be made for you from 10 mins ago when you last re-did your "spell set".

    I agree with your general point, but if Evac does what I imagine it does, it would probably go into the in-combat utility bar while Root would go into the in-combat action bar for target-based abilities. Your example has been a major worry of mine, which is why I was happy to learn about the addition of an in-combat utility bar in the stream.

    • 888 posts
    March 18, 2020 8:30 AM PDT
    Suggestion:
    Give us a limited primary bar but give us a second bar of 8 -10 more. The slots (not the skills) in the bar have very long cool-downs. If you use a skill in one of these slots, the slot itself becomes unusable for 15+ minutes. This gives us a limited set of core skills while still allowing for some contingency skills. Out of combat, you can swap the powers around, but the slot remains on cool-down, so you can move the power you just used to a different slot, but you're still down one slot.

    This is fun because it allows for the tactical use of emergency powers, giving us a deeper toolkit without giving us unlimited skills. I love those "break glass in case of emergency" moments and a 8 skill LAS doesn't offer that. This also helps balance fights because if we are stuck with no contingency powers, we have to choose between regular fights being too easy or boss fights being too hard.

    To me, having a very limited amount of skills available limits creativity. It will encourage min/maxing, memorizing optimal rotations, and meta-gaming. Unlimited skills is also boring because every character of the same class has the same tools and they become too similar. My suggestion is a good middle ground that takes the best of both worlds.
    • 1315 posts
    March 18, 2020 8:37 AM PDT

    @Counterfleche

    Interesting concept.  The placement in the action bar more dictates what your primary abilties are and what are your limited ability by a slot dependent cool down.  The offtank may want taunt up just in case but he can afford to put it in his 60 second cool down slot rather than one of his 15 second ones.

    • 1273 posts
    March 18, 2020 9:51 AM PDT

    I also agree it's a decent idea but I personally don't want it.  I really really like the idea that this game will be difficult.  An idea like this makes the game "easier" for players to get out of a bad situation that they were not prepared for.  I have no problem with the consequence of a bad decision, or even being in the wrong place at the wrong time, being death.  Some people say "live and learn" ... in a video game I'd prefer "die and learn."

    • 2752 posts
    March 18, 2020 10:20 AM PDT

    Mathir said:

    Ok, Keno, but what is more challenging and fun....Having all your abilities on your bar at all times to handle any issue, or being able to "pull off" some type of meditation or trance effect mid-battle to switch to the spell you just figured out you needed on the fly?  This game has a ton of abilities for both casters and melee, make it so you go into a rooted trance like effect, maybe you take double damage while doing so, and it lasts X amount of seconds while you get up your new ability.  Maybe have a timed cooldown on how often you can swap out abilities mid-combat as well.  That seems a lot more engaging, strategic, and challenging, especially if AoEs and weather effects are going off around you potentially causing big damage.  Now it's a cost/benefit scenaro mixed with individual player strategy and you are gambling that whatever you are replacing is not going to be needed any time soon.  VR could make switching out your abilities mid-fight a key concept that could be improved with certain attributes or skills like intelligence or meditation.  It's another mini-game within a game.  To me, that makes more sense than a LAS or UAS and adds extra depth to the combat.

     

    Also, you said some people didn't like EQ1.  Blasphemer!

    That's a knowledge issue, one that in all likelyhood would not exist for very long for any given player. You will learn and know what abilities your class loads up for any given mob/mob type and disposition sooner than later. There won't really be things you just figure out you need on the fly save for times you were entirely forgetful/negligent to begin with, and even in most of those cases a simple mez/root/CC can give the group any amount of time to swap abilities mid fight (if they were to have such a tedious "middleman" mechanic). 

    The difference with UAS and longer cooldowns you ask? You don't know one fight to the next what abilities you will have off-cooldown to deal with any new situation that arises, you may not have the best tools to handle that second bloodthirsty disposition which was just chain pulled so you now have to get creative and work more cohesively with the group. The amount of "groundhog day" gameplay/combat is dramatically reduced compared to that of LAS and the skill ceiling is far higher. 

    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 10:31 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Mathir said:

    Ok, Keno, but what is more challenging and fun....Having all your abilities on your bar at all times to handle any issue, or being able to "pull off" some type of meditation or trance effect mid-battle to switch to the spell you just figured out you needed on the fly?  This game has a ton of abilities for both casters and melee, make it so you go into a rooted trance like effect, maybe you take double damage while doing so, and it lasts X amount of seconds while you get up your new ability.  Maybe have a timed cooldown on how often you can swap out abilities mid-combat as well.  That seems a lot more engaging, strategic, and challenging, especially if AoEs and weather effects are going off around you potentially causing big damage.  Now it's a cost/benefit scenaro mixed with individual player strategy and you are gambling that whatever you are replacing is not going to be needed any time soon.  VR could make switching out your abilities mid-fight a key concept that could be improved with certain attributes or skills like intelligence or meditation.  It's another mini-game within a game.  To me, that makes more sense than a LAS or UAS and adds extra depth to the combat.

     

    Also, you said some people didn't like EQ1.  Blasphemer!

    That's a knowledge issue, one that in all likelyhood would not exist for very long for any given player. You will learn and know what abilities your class loads up for any given mob/mob type and disposition sooner than later. There won't really be things you just figure out you need on the fly save for times you were entirely forgetful/negligent to begin with, and even in most of those cases a simple mez/root/CC can give the group any amount of time to swap abilities mid fight (if they were to have such a tedious "middleman" mechanic). 

    The difference with UAS and longer cooldowns you ask? You don't know one fight to the next what abilities you will have off-cooldown to deal with any new situation that arises, you may not have the best tools to handle that second bloodthirsty disposition which was just chain pulled so you now have to get creative and work more cohesively with the group. The amount of "groundhog day" gameplay/combat is dramatically reduced compared to that of LAS and the skill ceiling is far higher. 

    You do realize that this whole you won't know what CD's you will have based off of chained pulled mobs isn't actually true, for instanced if you know in a fight with uas/cd involved and you mainly do lets say:

    1,2,3,Q,E,1,3,4 for example: than when the mob that got chained pulled you know you still have at least 5,6,with 2,probably coming off CD, and also know the 1,3, have short CD, in wild cards in your Q,E, and 4 probably being one of yor longer CD's in this example anbyway, and if you play around that rotation enough this whole "You wouldn't know" matter in actually blown out of proportion.


    This post was edited by Cealtric at March 18, 2020 11:08 AM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:06 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    You do realize that this whole you won't know what CD's you will have based off of chained pulled mobs isn't actually true, for instanced if you know in a fight with uas/cd involved and you mainly do lets say:

    1,2,3,Q,E,1,3,4 for example: than when the mob that got chained pulled you know you still have at least 5,6,with 2,probably coming off CD, and also know the 1,3, 4 have short CD, in wild cards in your Q,E in this example anbyway, and if you play around that rotation enough this whole "You wouldn't know" matter in actually blown out of proportion.

    Not at all. Long cooldowns are 3-8+ minutes, trending toward 6+. If the average fight is 45-60 seconds that means you would have access to many abilities only once or twice between a short/long rest (downtime). Under this system I'd also assume the game would be balanced such that each fight is challenging enough to where every fight is going to necessitate using one or more cooldowns from each person to survive. With all the different mob/type/disposition from one pull to the next you won't have a steady specific set/flow of abilities available one fight to the next. 

    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:11 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    You do realize that this whole you won't know what CD's you will have based off of chained pulled mobs isn't actually true, for instanced if you know in a fight with uas/cd involved and you mainly do lets say:

    1,2,3,Q,E,1,3,4 for example: than when the mob that got chained pulled you know you still have at least 5,6,with 2,probably coming off CD, and also know the 1,3, 4 have short CD, in wild cards in your Q,E in this example anbyway, and if you play around that rotation enough this whole "You wouldn't know" matter in actually blown out of proportion.

    Not at all. Long cooldowns are 3-8+ minutes, trending toward 6+. If the average fight is 45-60 seconds that means you would have access to many abilities only once or twice between a short/long rest (downtime). Under this system I'd also assume the game would be balanced such that each fight is challenging enough to where every fight is going to necessitate using one or more cooldowns from each person to survive. With all the different mob/type/disposition from one pull to the next you won't have a steady specific set/flow of abilities available one fight to the next. 

    This scenario only makes it all that easier, and makes it easier simply by the process of elimination, and also the game would have to also be guaged to that kind of cobmat as well, and in that alone would also make it easier, even if you add in chain pulls, the mob would still have to be guage to that style of playing, you cant have WoW fast pace thinking with all your abilities being on long cooldowns, it simply doesnt mixed and trying to do so would only cuase, you lose the long cd's which with uas i seems like no one would want, or you nerf the mobs to the ground to where they are suppose to be and at times to be difficult but a pace that slow isn't actually hard once you actually got used to it.

    • 379 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:13 AM PDT
    That sounds awful, Iksar. Lol
    • 2752 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:27 AM PDT

    Fragile said: That sounds awful, Iksar. Lol

    Know what sounds awful? LAS, pigeonholed class loadouts with heavily rotation based gameplay spamming buttons to keep that GCD ticking away as much as possible.

     

    If fights are 45-60 seconds per mob as planned, having your abilities up for every fight or every other dramatically reduces the meangfulness of pressing your buttons. Mana/class resource cost alone is not enough, and certainly doesn't feel good as a player when scaled to extremes. 

    As point of reference, mend in EQ was on a 6 minute cooldown. Impactful but limited. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at March 18, 2020 11:28 AM PDT
    • 1315 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:31 AM PDT

    I could also see abilities that can be used X number of times per encounter.  Once you are in combat the encounter starts.  Every time you use the ability you burn a charger. Once you use all the charges then the ability is on cooldown until the end of the encounter. The encounter continues until you have been out of combat for 30-60 seconds.  This way you could have strategic limited use abilities that are still available every combat, assuming your puller gives you enough time.

     

    Abilities could change depending on the number of charges you have left to make combat even more dynamic. Encounter powers would also make adds much more dangerous as you would likely be without some of your limited use powers.

     

     

    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:43 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Fragile said: That sounds awful, Iksar. Lol

    Know what sounds awful? LAS, pigeonholed class loadouts with heavily rotation based gameplay spamming buttons to keep that GCD ticking away as much as possible.

     

    If fights are 45-60 seconds per mob as planned, having your abilities up for every fight or every other dramatically reduces the meangfulness of pressing your buttons. Mana/class resource cost alone is not enough, and certainly doesn't feel good as a player when scaled to extremes. 

    As point of reference, mend in EQ was on a 6 minute cooldown. Impactful but limited. 

    You also realize with that class they also had short cds like flying kick on a 8 sec or so cd and tiger claw or whatever they used on a 6 sec cd, so the combat stayed fluid and engaging and not simply yelp I used that ability I guess it pointless to look at for at least 10 minutes.

    • 2756 posts
    March 18, 2020 11:48 AM PDT

    Counterfleche said: Suggestion: Give us a limited primary bar but give us a second bar of 8 -10 more. The slots (not the skills) in the bar have very long cool-downs. If you use a skill in one of these slots, the slot itself becomes unusable for 15+ minutes. This gives us a limited set of core skills while still allowing for some contingency skills. Out of combat, you can swap the powers around, but the slot remains on cool-down, so you can move the power you just used to a different slot, but you're still down one slot. This is fun because it allows for the tactical use of emergency powers, giving us a deeper toolkit without giving us unlimited skills. I love those "break glass in case of emergency" moments and a 8 skill LAS doesn't offer that. This also helps balance fights because if we are stuck with no contingency powers, we have to choose between regular fights being too easy or boss fights being too hard. To me, having a very limited amount of skills available limits creativity. It will encourage min/maxing, memorizing optimal rotations, and meta-gaming. Unlimited skills is also boring because every character of the same class has the same tools and they become too similar. My suggestion is a good middle ground that takes the best of both worlds.

    Nice. I made a similar suggestion a while back. Cast from the codex or a second hotbar but with penalties to cost (mana, resource, cast time, cooldown, etc).

    There's no reason we have to be LAS *or* UAS and nothing in-between or different.

    You guys are clever. Let's have some innovative ideas.

    Something *like* LAS but not LAS could give that additional strategy/planning feel but without the crippling frustration.


    This post was edited by disposalist at March 18, 2020 11:48 AM PDT
    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 12:00 PM PDT

    I still think a lot of people are blowing things out of proportion and until is properly tested and have actually impactful feedback on something because it has actually been TESTED, is when I'll start taking anything seriously, but that just me, but simply just assuming something is going to failed or not reach the goal of what VR is trying to achieve, or saying they are going against their tenants before actually seeing how it feels in its current form, honestly just doesn't make sense to me, and yes past experiences  isn't something I count as credible evidence of anything.

    Like I said before I know I like FPS more than TPS, but I know I like some TPS games and hate some FPS games and by some people's logic, I would like all FPS games and hate all TPS games which obviously isn't true.


    This post was edited by Cealtric at March 18, 2020 12:02 PM PDT
    • 45 posts
    March 18, 2020 12:00 PM PDT

    I like the LAS that the devs are setting up for Pantheon.


    -when you get more of one class in a group they can both utilize different skillsets and have different roles.

    -A limited action set makes you think more about skill strategy and usage.

    -In EQ2 I had 4 hotbars and combat was a button-mashing experience.

    • 1618 posts
    March 18, 2020 12:21 PM PDT

    Sadly, no matter VR does, half the posters here will hate it and argue it's against the tenets of the game. Seems to be the way of things here lately.

    • 2419 posts
    March 18, 2020 12:41 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    Sadly, no matter VR does, half the posters here will hate it and argue it's against the tenets of the game. Seems to be the way of things here lately.

    You are probably right, but speaking for myself I know there is a compromise between the unchangeable-in-combat 8+6 LAS and the full ULAS.  VR just needs to get to that point and the only wayt to get there is through players actually testing the various iterations.

    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 12:47 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Beefcake said:

    Sadly, no matter VR does, half the posters here will hate it and argue it's against the tenets of the game. Seems to be the way of things here lately.

    You are probably right, but speaking for myself I know there is a compromise between the unchangeable-in-combat 8+6 LAS and the full ULAS.  VR just needs to get to that point and the only wayt to get there is through players actually testing the various iterations.

    I agree, one thing I think that could actually work would be if a Enchanter or Bard or any utility type class have their mez spells have a chance to trigger non combat that can only be active on one target at a time, that way it isn't completely game breaking, can't affect more than one target, and gives people a chance to change out spells when if technically you have have a moment you have a mob to kill, now I'm not saying something like this has to be in place, just saying that before testing I think this could fix a problem many are complaining about.

    • 1618 posts
    March 18, 2020 1:42 PM PDT

    I think having all your spells available at all times is more of a solo player thing. I would like VR to concentrate on group play.

    If players find a solid way to solo, great! But, I would like to see the game designed around groups, not solo.

    • 133 posts
    March 18, 2020 1:44 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    I still think a lot of people are blowing things out of proportion and until is properly tested and have actually impactful feedback on something because it has actually been TESTED, is when I'll start taking anything seriously, but that just me, but simply just assuming something is going to failed or not reach the goal of what VR is trying to achieve, or saying they are going against their tenants before actually seeing how it feels in its current form, honestly just doesn't make sense to me, and yes past experiences  isn't something I count as credible evidence of anything.

    Like I said before I know I like FPS more than TPS, but I know I like some TPS games and hate some FPS games and by some people's logic, I would like all FPS games and hate all TPS games which obviously isn't true.

    That right there is counter to your argument. You say you don't look at past experiences as credible evidence of anything, but then you say that you prefer FPS over TPS...now how did you get to that conclusion? Could it be that you have played a lot of FPS and TPS in the past and you find you like FPS better? That's taking past experience and using it to form a logical conclusion. for example, I like fantasy books over thriller books, I have come to this conclusion based on how many of both I have read over the course of my life of both; even still I absolutely LOVE Dan Brown's writings. I can use my past experience to conclude what I like best and still have exceptions. In the end, you are still using your past experience with both those genres to form the conclusion of what you like best out of the two, or what you would pick most times over the two based on what you have liked in the past. This is how pretty much either everyone forms their opinion on any topic in all of the universe, or how a topic or item is deemed as something good or bad. For example, I haven't TESTED the idea that drinking drain cleaner is bad, but I can sure tell you that watching what happens to said person who has, that is IS a terrible idea. I'm sure that person could tell you too that it's not great based on their past experience...but you know, that's not credible evidence to you is it?

     

    Edit: I hit something weird on my keyboard...I'm still trying to figure out what, but to continue my thought; This is why there are so many speaking out against the LAS and they have provided evidence of such as to why it's bad, on top of their past experience; just like everyone that is talking about how good the LAS is, is using their past experience as well. Both sides are using it to state why they think it's bad and good, because of their past experiences and some with evidence. Even yourself, I have watched you talk about how good it could be or is going to be, and again, you reached those conclusions based on your past experience, so for you to sit here and tell others that don't agree with you that they are wrong because their past experience means nothing, then you sir are wrong as well and guilty of the same crime with the same reason.


    This post was edited by OCastitatisLilium at March 18, 2020 2:07 PM PDT
    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 2:10 PM PDT

    OCastitatisLilium said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    I still think a lot of people are blowing things out of proportion and until is properly tested and have actually impactful feedback on something because it has actually been TESTED, is when I'll start taking anything seriously, but that just me, but simply just assuming something is going to failed or not reach the goal of what VR is trying to achieve, or saying they are going against their tenants before actually seeing how it feels in its current form, honestly just doesn't make sense to me, and yes past experiences  isn't something I count as credible evidence of anything.

    Like I said before I know I like FPS more than TPS, but I know I like some TPS games and hate some FPS games and by some people's logic, I would like all FPS games and hate all TPS games which obviously isn't true.

    That right there is counter to your argument. You say you don't look at past experiences as credible evidence of anything, but then you say that you prefer FPS over TPS...now how did you get to that conclusion? Could it be that you have played a lot of FPS and TPS in the past and you find you like FPS better? That's taking past experience and using it to form a logical conclusion. for example, I like fantasy books over thriller books, I have come to this conclusion based on how many of both I have read over the course of my life of both; even still I absolutely LOVE Dan Brown's writings. I can use my past experience to conclude what I like best and still have exceptions. In the end, you are still using your past experience with both those genres to form the conclusion of what you like best out of the two, or what you would pick most times over the two based on what you have liked in the past. This is how pretty much either everyone forms their opinion on any topic in all of the universe, or how a topic or item is deemed as something good or bad. For example, I haven't TESTED the idea that drinking drain cleaner is bad, but I can sure tell you that watching what happens to said person who has, that is IS a terrible idea. I'm sure that person could tell you too that it's not great based on their past experience...but you know, that's not credible evidence to you is it?

    Okay, clearly you obviously missed the entire point of my statement, the difference between me and you is that even though they might be using a feature I might not like I don't prematurely judge it before actually testing it, much like you obviously didn't prematurely judge some of those thriller books before reading it and decided you didn't like it or prematurely judge you were going to like a book by your favorite author you haven't read yet.  Or at least you shouldn't. Or as other say you shouldn't judge a book by its cover /wink

    And another thing is I haven't really been stating LAS or UAS, I've been more of stop prematurely juding features before testing, and defending VR on their decision until the testing is done, not actually LAS specifically.


    This post was edited by Cealtric at March 18, 2020 2:27 PM PDT
    • 133 posts
    March 18, 2020 2:22 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:Okay, clearly you obviously missed the entire point of my statement, the difference between me and you is that even though they might be using a feature I might not like I don't prematurely judge it before actually testing it, much like you obviously didn't prematurely judge some of those thriller books before reading it and decided you didn't like it or prematurely judge you were going to like a book by your favorite author you haven't read yet.  Or at least you shouldn't.

     

    NO, No I didn't, because you are doing just that. You are prematurely judging the LAS that it's going to be good or can be good based on past expereinces. I only picked up one of his books based on the fact that a movie came out about it and I was like, wait this is a book? That's literally it. I wouldn't have even looked at them otherwise. EVERYONE bases an opinion on what they experienced in the past, the ONLY time someone looks as something new, is when it reminds them of SOMETHING THE KNOW THEY LIKE. I know what you are getting at, don't knock it until you try it, or, don't judge a book by it's cover, type of thing; but this is the thing, there is evidence for both that are pro and con to both. THere is more evidence that an LAS is terrible and the fact that I have read nearly every single post in here, supporting the LAS but then talking about WORKAROUNDS to circumvent the fact that you are locked to what is on the toolbar in a fight; just tells me that a UAS removes all of the extra tedious steps that don't need to be there, if you're just going to do them anyways. Why talk about anything then based on this game? Hmm? Why talk about ANYTHING about Pantheon then if we haven't tried it? Why post anything positive or negative about the game in these forums, we haven't tried it yet, based on what you keep touting.

    • 1584 posts
    March 18, 2020 2:29 PM PDT

    OCastitatisLilium said:

    Riahuf22 said:Okay, clearly you obviously missed the entire point of my statement, the difference between me and you is that even though they might be using a feature I might not like I don't prematurely judge it before actually testing it, much like you obviously didn't prematurely judge some of those thriller books before reading it and decided you didn't like it or prematurely judge you were going to like a book by your favorite author you haven't read yet.  Or at least you shouldn't.

     

    NO, No I didn't, because you are doing just that. You are prematurely judging the LAS that it's going to be good or can be good based on past expereinces. I only picked up one of his books based on the fact that a movie came out about it and I was like, wait this is a book? That's literally it. I wouldn't have even looked at them otherwise. EVERYONE bases an opinion on what they experienced in the past, the ONLY time someone looks as something new, is when it reminds them of SOMETHING THE KNOW THEY LIKE. I know what you are getting at, don't knock it until you try it, or, don't judge a book by it's cover, type of thing; but this is the thing, there is evidence for both that are pro and con to both. THere is more evidence that an LAS is terrible and the fact that I have read nearly every single post in here, supporting the LAS but then talking about WORKAROUNDS to circumvent the fact that you are locked to what is on the toolbar in a fight; just tells me that a UAS removes all of the extra tedious steps that don't need to be there, if you're just going to do them anyways. Why talk about anything then based on this game? Hmm? Why talk about ANYTHING about Pantheon then if we haven't tried it? Why post anything positive or negative about the game in these forums, we haven't tried it yet, based on what you keep touting.

    Yes you did, but it's okay, you can keep thinking I have, that fine, it doesn't really make make a difference to me, as I won't actually judge the feature until actually tested.  The ony thing I am actually prematurely judging is that I have faith in VR and will test their feature with a open mind and not have some past experience drive my answers upon biased opinions, that's what I'm prematurely judging. 

    Also most things don't need to be tested, and most of the posts on these forums were more theorycrafting than anything, or talking race/class and such, not too many were about a specific feature that actually required testing, but LAS is clearly one of these features and honestly until than like I said earlier I won't be taking anything said seriously, and honestly do you not think VR has actually not thought of all of these points you have brought up and decided LAS anyway, just saying, and honestly with the more passionate than any of us what this game and to have people run it through the mill before even testing it I also find quite distasteful.


    This post was edited by Cealtric at March 18, 2020 2:47 PM PDT
    • 133 posts
    March 18, 2020 2:46 PM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    OCastitatisLilium said:

    Riahuf22 said:Okay, clearly you obviously missed the entire point of my statement, the difference between me and you is that even though they might be using a feature I might not like I don't prematurely judge it before actually testing it, much like you obviously didn't prematurely judge some of those thriller books before reading it and decided you didn't like it or prematurely judge you were going to like a book by your favorite author you haven't read yet.  Or at least you shouldn't.

     

    NO, No I didn't, because you are doing just that. You are prematurely judging the LAS that it's going to be good or can be good based on past expereinces. I only picked up one of his books based on the fact that a movie came out about it and I was like, wait this is a book? That's literally it. I wouldn't have even looked at them otherwise. EVERYONE bases an opinion on what they experienced in the past, the ONLY time someone looks as something new, is when it reminds them of SOMETHING THE KNOW THEY LIKE. I know what you are getting at, don't knock it until you try it, or, don't judge a book by it's cover, type of thing; but this is the thing, there is evidence for both that are pro and con to both. THere is more evidence that an LAS is terrible and the fact that I have read nearly every single post in here, supporting the LAS but then talking about WORKAROUNDS to circumvent the fact that you are locked to what is on the toolbar in a fight; just tells me that a UAS removes all of the extra tedious steps that don't need to be there, if you're just going to do them anyways. Why talk about anything then based on this game? Hmm? Why talk about ANYTHING about Pantheon then if we haven't tried it? Why post anything positive or negative about the game in these forums, we haven't tried it yet, based on what you keep touting.

    Yes you did, but it's okay, you can keep thinking I have, that fine, it doesn't really make make a difference to me, as I won't actually prematurely judge the feature until actually tested.  The ony thing I am actually prematurely judging is that I have faith in VR and will test their feature with a open mind and not have some past experience drive my answers upon biased opinions, that's what I'm prematurely judging. 

     

    Nice edit by the way, that's what it originally looked like. The fact that you are prematurely judging ANYTHING means you are using past experience whether you are aware of it or not. You can' t be this dense, seriously. You can't sit there and tell me you don't see how hypocritical every one of these replies and even your other posts have been. You were already accused of being rude once, and when I first read it, I tried to see where and honestly couldn't find it, but no, now I get it. Your being passive aggressive and instigative. I'm done talking to you, because talking to you is like drilling my own teeth without freezing.