Listen guys, you're right about the website being lackluster, especially in terms of updating news and links. But think about the strategy for a minute....the goal is to create a Project Faerthale demo to impress Amazon, then sell the game to Amazon, and then just let them worry about making a new website. Smed and Holly are going to take care of everything. Why waste resources on a website revamp now?
vjek said:Logic has no power here, Xxar.
Lol. Logic. Ok. Here's some.
Yes, the website is subpar and may be costing VR some backers (if they ignore YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, MMORPG website articles, etc)
VR aren't doing nothing, though. The work they are doing while not updating the website will no doubt gain backers when revealed.
The negative posting on this forum will be costing VR backers.
The same people complaining about the website losing VR backers are making other pessimistic, less justified negative posts on the forum also losing VR backers.
What are the pros of negative posting? Any? Really?
So, what, logically, is a good course, regarding negative posting here?
I'll answer my own question, because I'm pretty good at following logic: The negative posting has no benefit and can only hurt the community and the game, so it's best to not do it, if you can only be pessimistic.
But no one is suggesting people shouldn't be critical. Just do it in a positive way, or at least less negative, ie. give feedback and suggest improvements.
If you find yourself drifting into posts that take your criticism, mix in a whole load of worst-case assumptions and pessimism and result in a negative, conspiracy-laden rant, maybe re-word it...
I'm not trying to convince anyone backing this project for now, because no one in my surrounding has the faith or even knew everquest back in time to envision the project and what good it could outcome.
I'll try later, but for now it's simply cattered to us, the daydreamers. Which is why it's important to get a product as polished and ready to go at the right moment, rushing and providing a broken open beta will only turn people away for good, while waiting the right moment will be a deal breaker.
I also agree with Disposalist about how beeing constantly negative and creating "multiple posts" about that in hope that VR will drop some sugar in reaction is costing the game backers and interest.
disposalist said:vjek said:Logic has no power here, Xxar.
Lol. Logic. Ok. Here's some.
Yes, the website is subpar and may be costing VR some backers (if they ignore YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, MMORPG website articles, etc)
VR aren't doing nothing, though. The work they are doing while not updating the website will no doubt gain backers when revealed.
The negative posting on this forum will be costing VR backers.
The same people complaining about the website losing VR backers are making other pessimistic, less justified negative posts on the forum also losing VR backers.
What are the pros of negative posting? Any? Really?
So, what, logically, is a good course, regarding negative posting here?
I'll answer my own question, because I'm pretty good at following logic: The negative posting has no benefit and can only hurt the community and the game, so it's best to not do it, if you can only be pessimistic.
But no one is suggesting people shouldn't be critical. Just do it in a positive way, or at least less negative, ie. give feedback and suggest improvements.
If you find yourself drifting into posts that take your criticism, mix in a whole load of worst-case assumptions and pessimism and result in a negative, conspiracy-laden rant, maybe re-word it...
Yes that was a nice and comprehensive way to put it i can really stand with the above.
If you want to argue about a post or a topic,do it against the context not the person and definitely not in anger and hate because it just fuels more of the same.
in the end i belive most of the community wants a great game and to do it we the players can offer some hints what we want,like in this post some improvments to the website,we cant force vr to do it but we can acknowledge a way to get it better.
Costing backers or getting backers might not be the only reason i think most members wants a better page with existing information already realeased,i mean it have been 3-4 month after the realease of the new logo and i cant find it anywhere here on the website......thats.....bad
To sum it upp negativ posting(awful) constructiv critisism and positiv wording (great for a debate)
disposalist said:vjek said:Logic has no power here, Xxar.
Lol. Logic. Ok. Here's some.
Yes, the website is subpar and may be costing VR some backers (if they ignore YouTube, Twitter, Reddit, MMORPG website articles, etc)
VR aren't doing nothing, though. The work they are doing while not updating the website will no doubt gain backers when revealed.
The negative posting on this forum will be costing VR backers.
The same people complaining about the website losing VR backers are making other pessimistic, less justified negative posts on the forum also losing VR backers.
What are the pros of negative posting? Any? Really?
So, what, logically, is a good course, regarding negative posting here?
I'll answer my own question, because I'm pretty good at following logic: The negative posting has no benefit and can only hurt the community and the game, so it's best to not do it, if you can only be pessimistic.
But no one is suggesting people shouldn't be critical. Just do it in a positive way, or at least less negative, ie. give feedback and suggest improvements.
If you find yourself drifting into posts that take your criticism, mix in a whole load of worst-case assumptions and pessimism and result in a negative, conspiracy-laden rant, maybe re-word it...
Negative posting? Or pragmatic posting.
Anyone thinking about pledging should have a right to know what they're pledging for and the actual reality of the situation, as much as that's possible.
disposalist said:But no one is suggesting people shouldn't be critical. Just do it in a positive way, or at least less negative, ie. give feedback and suggest improvements.
Through the last 6+ years I've been following this project I and many others have done exactly that, provided feedback and suggested improvement not in a negative manner but through clearly outlining the benefits of making said changes. VR has come back acknowledging and agreeing that such changes are a good idea and would implement them, only to turn around and not do it.
The website, for example, has been pointed out to VR to be subpar, lacking in content and is hampering their fund raising efforts and yet VR tells 'the updated website is coming'. That was over 2 years ago now and still it sits here in the same pathetic state it was so many years ago.
We have told VR since day 1 that they need to be controlling all narrative aspects of this project, yet here we are with VR doing little to nothing about it. According to the website (take the following informatoin with a huge grain of salt as we have no idea if it is actually accurate) there are 4 people directly involved with marketing and community management. Yet even with those 4, presumably earning a full time salary, there is no management of the narrative, no management of the community (other than locking threads which will soon happen to this one). That fiasco with Asmongold years back is a prime example. They put something out, he replied negatively (I will not say if he was correct or not), and instead of VR countering his criticism and wresting back control they panicked and turtled up choosing to instead say nothing. VR has never realy recovered from that and nothing I've seen since then leads me to believe they ever will.
It is when VR agrees that a suggestion is worthwile, has demonstrable benefits and involves little to no effort on their part to employ, yet still does not do it is when the constructive criticism turns to negativity. Rightly deserved negativity.
All that said, you might wonder why I, someone who many see as being overly negative all the time, still follows this project? Simple, because I do want an old-school MMO akin to EQ1 and, so far, VR is the only company actually working on one. I have given, and will continue to give, VR my feedback and opinions on all aspects of this project and the company itself without pulling any punches. When they have deserved admiration for something I have given it and when they are deserving of criticism (constructive or otherwise) they get that as well.
Mathir said:Listen guys, you're right about the website being lackluster, especially in terms of updating news and links. But think about the strategy for a minute....the goal is to create a Project Faerthale demo to impress Amazon, then sell the game to Amazon, and then just let them worry about making a new website. Smed and Holly are going to take care of everything. Why waste resources on a website revamp now?
why sell to amazon when you can sell to activision? i hear they need a new mmo to monetize since they've ran an mmo into the dust. although the most likely buyer would be daybreak rofl. there's some history there. even selling to soe isn't so farfetched, considering chris rowan probably has connections.
zewtastic said:Negative posting? Or pragmatic posting.
Anyone thinking about pledging should have a right to know what they're pledging for and the actual reality of the situation, as much as that's possible.
As long as we *are* posting about the 'reality of the situation' and not just making assumptions and extrapolating to negative hyperbole based in pessimism, then, great.
Some pragmatism would be great. Then comments would be based in the practical not the theoretical; on what people are seeing and hearing and on what they suggest based on what they subjectively want.
Unfortunately people some seem happy to spin out negative theories largely based in what they are *not* seeing.
To assume the worst and post theories based on those assumptions is not pragmatic and it doesn't help anyone.
Vandraad said:disposalist said:But no one is suggesting people shouldn't be critical. Just do it in a positive way, or at least less negative, ie. give feedback and suggest improvements.
Through the last 6+ years I've been following this project I and many others have done exactly that, provided feedback and suggested improvement not in a negative manner but through clearly outlining the benefits of making said changes. VR has come back acknowledging and agreeing that such changes are a good idea and would implement them, only to turn around and not do it.
The website, for example, has been pointed out to VR to be subpar, lacking in content and is hampering their fund raising efforts and yet VR tells 'the updated website is coming'. That was over 2 years ago now and still it sits here in the same pathetic state it was so many years ago.
It is when VR agrees that a suggestion is worthwile, has demonstrable benefits and involves little to no effort on their part to employ, yet still does not do it is when the constructive criticism turns to negativity. Rightly deserved negativity.
All that said, you might wonder why I, someone who many see as being overly negative all the time, still follows this project? Simple, because I do want an old-school MMO akin to EQ1 and, so far, VR is the only company actually working on one. I have given, and will continue to give, VR my feedback and opinions on all aspects of this project and the company itself without pulling any punches. When they have deserved admiration for something I have given it and when they are deserving of criticism (constructive or otherwise) they get that as well.
Amen
disposalist said:As long as we *are* posting about the 'reality of the situation' and not just making assumptions and extrapolating to negative hyperbole based in pessimism, then, great.
Some pragmatism would be great. Then comments would be based in the practical not the theoretical; on what people are seeing and hearing and on what they suggest based on what they subjectively want.
Unfortunately people some seem happy to spin out negative theories largely based in what they are *not* seeing.
To assume the worst and post theories based on those assumptions is not pragmatic and it doesn't help anyone.
90% of the vr staff has been infected by the corona virus and can no longer update the website and forums, however, please follow us on youtube, twitter and facebook as those platforms are our best way to convince your friends to play protf.
on the bright side, most of the vr staff that worked remotely are unaffected by this pandemic and will work 20 hr for 7 days a week to compensate for majority of the staff that is on sick leave indefinitely so that we can get protf into the hands of the players now now now.
due to the collaspe of the stock market, the devs will not be recieving a paycheck and solely rely on donations for food, water and shelter. although we understand that starvation is a powerful motivation, please ensure we have enough to keep our staff alive and healthy enough to work. thank you.
Xxar said:The website is horrid , I have issues getting people to consider the game seriously let alone pledge when there unable to even update there offical page.
I understand that whoever was in charge of web design left , that excuss was played out over a year ago. What is the reason now ?
My kid has designed a professional webpage that handles transactions etc from scratch in less then a week. I hope professionals can handle this type of job.
The official page needs to have all the update notes , video streams and other information in one place.
The information we have is so scattered , that is more of a hassle to try and look things up then to not even bother.
I will not go to a 3rd party site or watch a "paid" streamer for information that needs to be on the companys site.
I think there is a Wikipedia-ish site already set up, maybe the community can get motivated to start cross posting in there? I know i say that, but i'm not doing that, sadly. If I did it would be the most up to date thing out there. Baz and Voices of Terminus would cross a link there whenever they provide content, Cohh could pop a link there. Itemization Data miners can start their lists there over what they saw drop, but that may be too much effort.
Joppa said: There is much to respond to in this thread and the others like it, but one thing I want to set the record straight on right now: We have not altered a single design decision or aspect of our development philosophy, pipeline or goals as a response to anything Asmongold has said about this project. It's almost humorous to me that some of you would think that! I personally searched out and watched the video for the first time just a few months ago after the 3rd or 4th time seeing it come up in a thread.
you spelt asmongold wrong. it's actually spelled liek this:
asmonpyrite
Joppa said:
We have not altered a single design decision or aspect of our development philosophy, pipeline or goals as a response to anything Asmongold has said about this project.
Fragile said:Joppa said: We have not altered a single design decision or aspect of our development philosophy, pipeline or goals as a response to anything Asmongold has said about this project.Then what *was* the catalyst for the paradigm shift in the deveopment/deveopment cycles? It's obvious that there was one.
could have been braid mcquaid =( maybe a last wish to engage the community more... etc. that's my guess.
stellarmind said:Trasak said:That one might actually be too soon Stellar, my sister and her 6th month old lives within a few miles of the VR office.
expect the worst hope for the best :D
kind of like when i have to clean a toilet every day. not sure what i'm getting lol.
LOL::)
I am totally onboard with Project Faerthale taking as long as it takes. I talk up VR and Pantheon at every opportunity,...because I think it will be great. We've seen enough for me to know it will be great. I will not get tired of waiting. There is a BUT. But when we push for Pantheon to be most wanted mmo, and when we are asked what social media we recommend for exposure, that all leads people back to this website. People who hear about Pantheon come to pantheonmmo.com. There are some good 4K pics, but really the web site is a mess. Updating the website with updated character models with a "work in process" disclaimer is easy to do. Nobody is saying "take the lead programmer off PF and redo the website." Just spend a couple of days to have links to streams, update faq, update the forums. talk a bit about racial passives, show a little bit on armor. It could be done.
The question that few people are asking, and nobody is answering, is why after 5 year in unity, the team is being required to manually create basic world assets because of performance issues? We heard talk over and over from VR that unity was going to be fantastic for performance and that VR and Unity themselves were working together to really make this game a great partnership with the engine...and 5 years later they can't use the $2.99 moss package on the unity store?
Questaar said:
I am totally onboard with Project Faerthale taking as long as it takes. I talk up VR and Pantheon at every opportunity,...because I think it will be great. We've seen enough for me to know it will be great. I will not get tired of waiting. There is a BUT. But when we push for Pantheon to be most wanted mmo, and when we are asked what social media we recommend for exposure, that all leads people back to this website. People who hear about Pantheon come to pantheonmmo.com. There are some good 4K pics, but really the web site is a mess. Updating the website with updated character models with a "work in process" disclaimer is easy to do. Nobody is saying "take the lead programmer off PF and redo the website." Just spend a couple of days to have links to streams, update faq, update the forums. talk a bit about racial passives, show a little bit on armor. It could be done.
This 100% , the major issue I have is the webpage.
The last "official podcast" was from Jan 2017, that is over 3 years ago!
I am not saying the world is coming to end or it is vaporware , I am saying you have about 2 minutes to capture the attention of a potential backer , with the primary source of information being the webpage.
I understand we all are informed on the progress , we are the 1 % the other 99 % have no clue , will not research or go out of there way to find information or updates on the progression of the game unless it is on the official webpage.
Joppa has said at least a few times that he encourages constructive critisicm. They want to hear it.
To tell those being critical that they shouldn't be is far worse than those who are giving feedback, whether positive or negative.
Please don't be that person who is trying to silence others who have concerns. It isn't your place and you are only making things worse.
philo said:Joppa has said at least a few times that he encourages constructive critisicm. They want to hear it.
To tell those being critical that they shouldn't be is far worse than those who are giving feedback, whether positive or negative.
Please don't be that person who is trying to silence others who have concerns. It isn't your place and you are only making things worse.
I love transparency and I love accountability, and I believe both are necessary and very helpful for our team...
Don't ever stop pushing us to be and do better as a Development Team, both in the quality of our work and the quality of our communication.
- Joppa
February 16, 2015