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Having a hard time to convince friends on pantheon

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    • 87 posts
    March 10, 2020 9:43 AM PDT

    Ok trying to make friends pledge or even to follow pantheon is increasingly hard.Starting to lose confidence in the games progress to but i still have some glimmer of hope i guess.

    So why is it so hard to make friends interesting in the game ? Well first i belive the information on the whole game is in a exeptional static state, getting information on anything is just maybe,perhaps,in development,we dont know.Its actually more easy to crack upp a coconut with your teeth then get some answers. this scares/drive people away x years in development and people se the same thing with some tiny bits of new stuff.And yes i have friends that have just turned around and just nope this is a lost cause..still trying to speak the salesman role in regards to pantheon.

    Second this community is actually scaring people away with so many comments like a know best,everyone have it wrong,i dictate the order,if you dont do this the sky will fall down.                    

     

    A community is a body of persons of common and especially professional interests scattered through a larger society not some individual who know it all,dont scare people away be helpfull and kind try to have a sound expression and try to have a great conversation.i have friends that lost interest just because of this elitism.

    So what to do to reatch out to people ? 

     

    First plz make some information available because pantheons homepage is a train wreck you dont need to put everything in there but start by small information already implemented like ui/racial passives/climbing/coin weight/update the spells,abilitys/character models...anything that showes some progress.

    Cant controll the community in anyway,and i dont want to because there is very smart individuals who can argue in a sustained way but plz try to be weary that your words can have a negativ effect on future players,we all want to have a working pantheon so lets strive for it not against it.

     

    Best regards Aqua

     

     

    • 363 posts
    March 10, 2020 9:50 AM PDT

    "The sky is falling" type pessimism is really scaring away potential pledges, some of my friends as well. There's tons of misinformation circulating too, for example people talk about being in development for 6 years, but fail to mention that they scrapped the whole thing and restarted around 2016. If you don't know the facts, or you're just gonna spew baseless negativity, then take a break from talking about Pantheon. Please, for the sake of the game, just take a step back and do some introspection to understand how your actions are effecting a crowd-funded game like Pantheon.


    This post was edited by Flossie at March 11, 2020 10:32 AM PDT
    • 2752 posts
    March 10, 2020 9:54 AM PDT

    I agree that a slick updated/new website would be a major boost for VR in terms of obtaining a higher amount of new backers. That said I don't think you should worry so much about convincing your friends to support the project or otherwise try to be a "salesman."

    I also agree the negativity around here has been growing and it's a shame. People who supposedly love the idea of Pantheon and want it to succeed doing little but complain and nitpicking every little thing, it really drives new people away from a project like this. It's totally fine to have personal concerns or fears but airing them constantly and publicly does nothing but harm the chances of the overall project seeing the light of day and being as good as it can be. 

     

    Point people in the direction of Pantheon with a few of the reasons you personally are into it and leave it up to them. If they find they like it too and want to support then that's great but if not maybe later on it will spark something or maybe never but that's life. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at March 10, 2020 10:00 AM PDT
    • 1428 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:05 AM PDT

    just do what i do.  have a good ol talk about freedom with beer and burgers.  git dat gat and say, 'yo gon play pantheon, BOY.'  then shoot your gun repeatedly in the air like it's the 4th of july while laughing maniacally.

     

    boom:  how to convince my friends to play pantheon rise of the fallen- the muricann way

     

    (i swapped the sentence order for more OOMPH :D)

    • 624 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:19 AM PDT

    Stellar: as always, you both amuse and terrify me. Don't ever change my friend...

    • 1273 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:32 AM PDT

    I do agree that the information that IS available is very difficult to find.  Their web page should certainly be updated with all the current info that has been released via streams, etc.  New people to the game should not have to go searching through fan sites to find current info, it should all be on their official site.  I'm also not really sure what the hold up is on that, updating a website is a very small job.

    It makese me a little sad too, because the info that is available is amazing.  It seems like they'd be super excited to update their website.

    • 523 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:57 AM PDT

    The issue I'm having with getting friends to get interested is the combat and animations.  They all think the graphics are good, to the point they are worried about having to upgrade their PCs.  I can sell them on the slower pace, strategy, increased challenge, and even the camping concept.  But the freaking combat is keeping them away.  The animations are awful or non-existant, it doesn't look responsive enough, and they keep saying it's boring.  I can't really argue with them.  EQ1's pacing and playstyle is fine, but you have to at least get WoW Classic levels of animations, response, fluidity, and impact.  Grinding elites in WoW Classic or even on boss fights FEELS and looks good, even if the fight is long and drawn out.  I know this is in the pipeline somewhere, but I would assume those animations need to be drastically updated before you show the game off as a demo after PF.

    • 2419 posts
    March 10, 2020 11:11 AM PDT

    VR tells us over and over, stream after stream that this is a crowd funded project and that more pledges would be welcomed.  And many of us have replied even more frequently that if VR wants us to help them, they need to help us help them.  That means fixing this joke of a website.  Update it.  Put all the streams into the media section.  Fill the screenshots page with current screenshots.  Put your concept art in there as well. 

    People want a one-stop-shop solution to everything these days.  You go to Amazon where you can buy everything with a single click. Yet here we are, 6 years and 1 month into this and information about this game is shotgun splattered here and there.  VR is only harming themselves with this approach to advertising.

    I've tried convincing friends (friends who are very serious gamers, putting dozens upon dozens of hours a weeek month after month, year after year into their games) into backing this game and the concensus from all of them is that the website is amateurish, the information lacking, the team is too small, the goals too lofty, etc.

    VR does not control the narrative of this game.  It never has and nothing appears to be changing that fact.

    • 42 posts
    March 10, 2020 2:46 PM PDT

    Everyone needs to R-E-L-A-X!

     

    I get there's a lot of people that want the game to succeed including some of it's biggest critics and like myself can get frustrated at the pace and timing, but man some people just need to chill and take a break.

     

    We are supposedly all adults here, yet I see soo many public tantrums on these forums along with some pretty serious conclusions or accusations because progress is slow and all it is doing is stirring up a riot for those that love the drama.

    Many of these people I see praising the Faerthale stream and then flipping out 2 weeks later.

    Seriously, if you have some serious doubts or issues, why not private message VR and leave it at that.  They seem to take messages and interactions with their users to heart, but jeez if you want this game to succeed and others to buy in to help move this game faster, chill out and stop turning each forum topic into a rant of this game is not coming fast enough.  Let those try to figure out if this game is right for themselves.

     

     

     

    • 388 posts
    March 10, 2020 2:51 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    VR tells us over and over, stream after stream that this is a crowd funded project and that more pledges would be welcomed.  And many of us have replied even more frequently that if VR wants us to help them, they need to help us help them.  That means fixing this joke of a website.  Update it.  Put all the streams into the media section.  Fill the screenshots page with current screenshots.  Put your concept art in there as well. 

    People want a one-stop-shop solution to everything these days.  You go to Amazon where you can buy everything with a single click. Yet here we are, 6 years and 1 month into this and information about this game is shotgun splattered here and there.  VR is only harming themselves with this approach to advertising.

    I've tried convincing friends (friends who are very serious gamers, putting dozens upon dozens of hours a weeek month after month, year after year into their games) into backing this game and the concensus from all of them is that the website is amateurish, the information lacking, the team is too small, the goals too lofty, etc.

    VR does not control the narrative of this game.  It never has and nothing appears to be changing that fact.

    THIS (what Vandraad said) 

    You should have trouble getting friends involved. They neglect the site and give us little to no real info and then beg for money... 

    This site is hurting WAY more than negative posts. The left the News section from OCTOBER up until FEBRUARY! Maps, FAQ, game tenets, Media are all out of date.   who wants to give money to a company that's too lazy to update their site?  Not one of my friends will touch this game with a 10 foot pole. Every single one of them tell me this game is vaoprware, and while I disagree, sometimes, I get why they say that. 

    The last dev news feed was 5 minutes of new character model pictures and 30 minutes of literally Nothing. "Here, let me read off questions that I know we won't or can't answer so I can kill time" 

    Yes, you might be seeing a trend from me lately on these boards. I am tired of blindly supporting a game with my money and getting nothing but continental drift progress. 


    This post was edited by Flapp at March 10, 2020 2:54 PM PDT
    • 379 posts
    March 10, 2020 3:10 PM PDT
    I am also unable to get my friends to support the game, all of the reasons listed by other posters apply. I even have a good friend of mine that is a VIP from back when Kickstarter failed, he stopped following the game in 2018.

    Several of my friends are also in and around the game industry/programming/web design. So I will leave it at that.
    • 429 posts
    March 10, 2020 3:11 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    VR tells us over and over, stream after stream that this is a crowd funded project and that more pledges would be welcomed.  And many of us have replied even more frequently that if VR wants us to help them, they need to help us help them.  That means fixing this joke of a website.  Update it.  Put all the streams into the media section.  Fill the screenshots page with current screenshots.  Put your concept art in there as well. 

    People want a one-stop-shop solution to everything these days.  You go to Amazon where you can buy everything with a single click. Yet here we are, 6 years and 1 month into this and information about this game is shotgun splattered here and there.  VR is only harming themselves with this approach to advertising.

    I've tried convincing friends (friends who are very serious gamers, putting dozens upon dozens of hours a weeek month after month, year after year into their games) into backing this game and the concensus from all of them is that the website is amateurish, the information lacking, the team is too small, the goals too lofty, etc.

    VR does not control the narrative of this game.  It never has and nothing appears to be changing that fact.

     

    Yep correct 

     Whats first thing VR says on Fb or Twitch or twitter ? to go to this website .. The buck stops here ...

     The concept art is years outdated the only new photo is of the dwarf ( great photo btw ). The video is not new . 

    Having more ingame photos more new concept art , new video . the podcast must be half a dozen years old . ( i jest on last one but close ) 

      Just those alone would do wonders .. 

     Do want to Thank the team For finally getting my email address correct at least now I get the updates :):):) ( my guess is Kilsin was the one to fix it .) 

      


    This post was edited by Shea at March 11, 2020 7:56 AM PDT
    • 56 posts
    March 10, 2020 4:12 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

     The animations are awful or non-existant, it doesn't look responsive enough, and they keep saying it's boring.  I can't really argue with them.  EQ1's pacing and playstyle is fine, but you have to at least get WoW Classic levels of animations, response, fluidity, and impact.  Grinding elites in WoW Classic or even on boss fights FEELS and looks good, even if the fight is long and drawn out.  I know this is in the pipeline somewhere, but I would assume those animations need to be drastically updated before you show the game off as a demo after PF.

    I've come up against this one quite a bit, and specifically little things as well - like the overhead healthbars and floating combat text leading to a gaming friend asking if it was someone I knew making the game as it did not look professional. You can say 'Those things will come in time' and as someone who follows the game I know that, but people are seeing it now and forming opinions based off of what they currently see on screen regardless of how far along the game is or isn't.

    At some point people bump into that first hiccup or less than polished element and that seems to determine their interpretation of it's overall quality potential. Now every stream I'm hoping to see a more attractive healthbar and less generic floating combat text - it really does look like a Unity default. And considering some of my absolutely dreadful Unity games had custom and more appealing ones, it can't be that time consuming to implement. I'm getting offtrack so...

    As far as the animations go, I agree they're still extremely janky. And as I find the original EQ models and their animations satisfying (autto attacks, casting animations, monk kicks etc) I'm assuming we don't need ultra expensive mo-cap to achieve this. Nailing the sense of fluidity is pretty crucial in my opinion, as well as anchoring the character to the world. EQ1, WoW, FFXIV and DAoC did a good job with this, it feels solid compared to, as an example, Cryptics engine, which plays in an extremely floaty and unsatisfying way in my experience.

     

    • 2756 posts
    March 10, 2020 4:35 PM PDT

    I'm getting bored with countering the sky-is-falling comments and getting called a white knight, but here we go again.

    VR have told us many times the game *will be released* and that more funding means the game getting made *faster* not that it won't get made without more funding.

    I'm not being a white knight, I'm choosing to not call the devs liars and cheats. I'm choosing to believe them when they say there is a lot more going on than they show us.

    Yes, the website is lacking and is out-of-date. The devs explained they had some set backs in this area, but it's not a priority since they have plenty of funding and the game is only in pre-alpha.

    Really, how many times do they have to say they are working hard, heads down trying to deliver Project Farthaele and PA5?

    *shrug* I guess people see and hear what they want and that I'll be accused of doing just that too...

    • 2756 posts
    March 10, 2020 4:37 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    The issue I'm having with getting friends to get interested is the combat and animations.  They all think the graphics are good, to the point they are worried about having to upgrade their PCs.  I can sell them on the slower pace, strategy, increased challenge, and even the camping concept.  But the freaking combat is keeping them away.  The animations are awful or non-existant, it doesn't look responsive enough, and they keep saying it's boring.  I can't really argue with them.  EQ1's pacing and playstyle is fine, but you have to at least get WoW Classic levels of animations, response, fluidity, and impact.  Grinding elites in WoW Classic or even on boss fights FEELS and looks good, even if the fight is long and drawn out.  I know this is in the pipeline somewhere, but I would assume those animations need to be drastically updated before you show the game off as a demo after PF.

    Lol. And then you get people posting that they need to stop 'wasting time' working on graphics/animation and get the gameplay and zone population done and release the game.

    They can't win.

    Well, they can - they can just ignore it and carry on just as they are making the brilliant game Pantheon is shaping up to be.

    • 523 posts
    March 10, 2020 5:18 PM PDT

    disposalist said:

    Mathir said:

    The issue I'm having with getting friends to get interested is the combat and animations.  They all think the graphics are good, to the point they are worried about having to upgrade their PCs.  I can sell them on the slower pace, strategy, increased challenge, and even the camping concept.  But the freaking combat is keeping them away.  The animations are awful or non-existant, it doesn't look responsive enough, and they keep saying it's boring.  I can't really argue with them.  EQ1's pacing and playstyle is fine, but you have to at least get WoW Classic levels of animations, response, fluidity, and impact.  Grinding elites in WoW Classic or even on boss fights FEELS and looks good, even if the fight is long and drawn out.  I know this is in the pipeline somewhere, but I would assume those animations need to be drastically updated before you show the game off as a demo after PF.

    Lol. And then you get people posting that they need to stop 'wasting time' working on graphics/animation and get the gameplay and zone population done and release the game.

    They can't win.

    Well, they can - they can just ignore it and carry on just as they are making the brilliant game Pantheon is shaping up to be.

     

    You're not wrong.  And I think your final conclusion is exactly what they should do.  I'm having trouble getting my gaming friends to invest in Pantheon at this time largely due to the animations and combat, but at the same time, I do feel like VR is making good progress on the game, and I do like everything I see and hear.  I'm fine with the slow pace of development because it's heading in the right direction, and until there is a direct competitor for this style of MMO, the reality is they can take as long as they want and as long as the game is good when they do release it, most people will be happy and play it.  I tend to agree with the poster (might have been a different thread) that said VR is putting all their eggs in this Project Fearthale basket for demo purposes hoping to land a large publishing contract or million dollar investers.  Hopefully, they can improve the animations before they make their big push.  But regardless, I'm ok with the pace of development, especially as of late.

    • 1860 posts
    March 10, 2020 6:07 PM PDT

    Back in 2015/16 when we were told alpha and beta would be in 2017 I used to talk it up to my friends as well.  They seemed interested but were waiting to see more.  At this point I don't mention it and they have moved on.

    • 1785 posts
    March 10, 2020 6:19 PM PDT

    The biggest challenge I run into with my various gaming communities and friends is simply that we don't have a timeframe when alpha is expected.  I understand why the team doesn't want to give out dates, but most people I tend to talk to say things like "yeah, it *sounds* good, but let me know when it's finally in alpha".

    The second biggest challenge I see is *definitely* the website.  If you go look at websites for other crowd-funded projects, often they're in better shape and constantly updated.  I know that VR has a small team but really, the website needs a lot more attention than it's getting.

    As for other things people have mentioned, they're all valid points - but I also think many of them are part and parcel of a game in development.  Most gamers I talk to are smart enough to understand that things like animations take time to get into a game.  Plus, most of them are used to looking at indy projects that suffer in terms of art and animation.  Either way, I think that there's not much VR can really do about that stuff right now - unlike the website, which they *can* do something with.

    I remain optimistic that Pantheon will launch and be successful.  From a design perspective, I think the team's heart is in the right place - and I say that even though I care very deeply about non-combat gameplay and it's place in the world, which is an area where we've had almost complete radio silence for years.  However, addressing some of these concerns would certainly give it a better chance of attracting new pledges.

    • 2000 posts
    March 10, 2020 7:35 PM PDT

    I'm sure a lot of people will disagree strongly with me, but C'est la vie.

    These forums are made up of eager supporters of Pantheon. Some are starting to feel differently, but anyone who has been here for a while and posted regularly can be described as a very committed fan. What many committed fans of anything often find hard to recognize is how easily others can look at the same thing and see it in a completely different light.

    While I can look at what the Devs show us today and see what Pantheon will be the day I log in to start playing, many others can not. It's not a failing on their part, it's simply a factor of MY enthusiasm which they don't share (yet). In this situation, making efforts to interest them in a partially finished, poorly advertised product can be totally counterproductive. As many here have experienced.

    In discussions, one cliche that comes up often is "you never get a second chance to make a first impression". This is even more true in this situation here. If your friends ASK what you are following, sure go ahead and tell them. But trying to sell them on a game that isn't finished, isn't polished, won't be out for years and doesn't even have current marketing materials available to read yet is not just a waste of effort. It's an opportunity for your friends to have enough of a negative first impression that they might never change their minds. It happened in Vanguard (for very different reasons yes). And it can happen to your friends today.

    To answer the OP's question of "So what to do to reach out to people ?" my answer is:
    Stop trying...for now. It's too early.

     

    (And I totally agree with the oft repeated suggestion of making the forums better. Sooner rather than later. But it doesn't change my advice above)


    This post was edited by Jothany at March 10, 2020 7:35 PM PDT
    • 368 posts
    March 10, 2020 7:50 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    I'm sure a lot of people will disagree strongly with me, but C'est la vie.

    These forums are made up of eager supporters of Pantheon. Some are starting to feel differently, but anyone who has been here for a while and posted regularly can be described as a very committed fan. What many committed fans of anything often find hard to recognize is how easily others can look at the same thing and see it in a completely different light.

    While I can look at what the Devs show us today and see what Pantheon will be the day I log in to start playing, many others can not. It's not a failing on their part, it's simply a factor of MY enthusiasm which they don't share (yet). In this situation, making efforts to interest them in a partially finished, poorly advertised product can be totally counterproductive. As many here have experienced.

    In discussions, one cliche that comes up often is "you never get a second chance to make a first impression". This is even more true in this situation here. If your friends ASK what you are following, sure go ahead and tell them. But trying to sell them on a game that isn't finished, isn't polished, won't be out for years and doesn't even have current marketing materials available to read yet is not just a waste of effort. It's an opportunity for your friends to have enough of a negative first impression that they might never change their minds. It happened in Vanguard (for very different reasons yes). And it can happen to your friends today.

    To answer the OP's question of "So what to do to reach out to people ?" my answer is:
    Stop trying...for now. It's too early.

     

    (And I totally agree with the oft repeated suggestion of making the forums better. Sooner rather than later. But it doesn't change my advice above)

     

    Honestly it takes a certain mindset to be able stay active in any prealpha game community and not feel frustration at ones perceived pace of progress. It is a fundemental experience of early access games...

    • 945 posts
    March 10, 2020 8:05 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    To answer the OP's question of "So what to do to reach out to people ?" my answer is:
    Stop trying...for now. It's too early.

    My sentiments exactly.

    • 87 posts
    March 10, 2020 9:47 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    I'm sure a lot of people will disagree strongly with me, but C'est la vie.

    These forums are made up of eager supporters of Pantheon. Some are starting to feel differently, but anyone who has been here for a while and posted regularly can be described as a very committed fan. What many committed fans of anything often find hard to recognize is how easily others can look at the same thing and see it in a completely different light.

    While I can look at what the Devs show us today and see what Pantheon will be the day I log in to start playing, many others can not. It's not a failing on their part, it's simply a factor of MY enthusiasm which they don't share (yet). In this situation, making efforts to interest them in a partially finished, poorly advertised product can be totally counterproductive. As many here have experienced.

    In discussions, one cliche that comes up often is "you never get a second chance to make a first impression". This is even more true in this situation here. If your friends ASK what you are following, sure go ahead and tell them. But trying to sell them on a game that isn't finished, isn't polished, won't be out for years and doesn't even have current marketing materials available to read yet is not just a waste of effort. It's an opportunity for your friends to have enough of a negative first impression that they might never change their minds. It happened in Vanguard (for very different reasons yes). And it can happen to your friends today.

    To answer the OP's question of "So what to do to reach out to people ?" my answer is:
    Stop trying...for now. It's too early.

     

    (And I totally agree with the oft repeated suggestion of making the forums better. Sooner rather than later. But it doesn't change my advice above)

    well i must strongly disagree why ? because i and several others are actually trying to get more people involved in pantheon not to scare them away we dedicate free time to convince them to check out/se clips get a grasp on the game.

    we try to increase the popularity or awaken some interest in pantheon....this is hard because of what i mention above and dont take it for critisism of the game,

    but more like a pointer on things to make it easier to get peoples attention like making the homepage a better place.

    Just saying stop trying is very bad wording. because congratulation you just scared people away, instead of making solutions and suggestions you are making yourself part of the problem not the solution.

    And of course what is a living mmo without people....a very dead mmo.

    • 2000 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:08 PM PDT

    Aqua said:

    Just saying stop trying is very bad wording. because congratulation you just scared people away, instead of making solutions and suggestions you are making yourself part of the problem not the solution.

    You asked for advice with your problem. I suggested a solution. I'm not surprised that you don't agree with it. I'm sorry if you are offended by my suggestion. It was not meant as criticism of you.

    My point is NOT that there is anything wrong with what you are doing, only that your efforts might be more productive at a later time.

    If you ask for suggestions, you should expect that not all of them will be to your liking.

     

    Onward and upward.

    • 87 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:35 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    Aqua said:

    Just saying stop trying is very bad wording. because congratulation you just scared people away, instead of making solutions and suggestions you are making yourself part of the problem not the solution.

    You asked for advice with your problem. I suggested a solution. I'm not surprised that you don't agree with it. I'm sorry if you are offended by my suggestion. It was not meant as criticism of you.

    My point is NOT that there is anything wrong with what you are doing, only that your efforts might be more productive at a later time.

    If you ask for suggestions, you should expect that not all of them will be to your liking.

     

    Onward and upward.

    Well first of i am not offended by any means it is ok to have different opinions.The purpose of the thread is some facts that i have encountered and i liked to share them good and bad and att the same time offer some ideas and potentaly solutions.

     

    nowhere in my thread did i ask for advice or personal suggestions so please dont put something that is not there.

     

    If you have a opinion or if anyone have a sound ide i belive the team working att vr is more than happy to hear it.

    So please lets be friends and have some forward momentum to make the community shine.

    Best regard Aqua

    • 159 posts
    March 10, 2020 10:51 PM PDT

    I'm gonna refer to one of Bazgrim's lastest videos where he goes over the 'Diffusion of Innovation Theory'. Long story short, some people need more before they can commit and invest, others don't. Sure you could sway a good friend that is on the fence, but in the end, people are who they are. Some people need the updated combat animations to buy in, while others invest so the development can get there in the first place.

     

    Not everyone is a 2.5% ( I think  I might get a new tattoo).

     

    Could the website use some updates as far as latest information, sure, but that's hardly going to tip a skeptic over the edge... once more substance starts to show in the world and combat, more and more will flood in.


    This post was edited by Kass at March 10, 2020 11:11 PM PDT