Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Where are we Really at?

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    • 1399 posts
    March 7, 2020 7:54 AM PST

    Even now I bet they have several (dozens?) other zones in progress. Possibly even  geographically complete. That they just haven't shown us. People like/seem to think that they only have the half a dozen we have seen, but then things like BAM they show us this "Isle of Storms" a near complete zone with boss included. That didn't just happen in the last two weeks since the previous stream. How many other complete or near complete zones do they have sitting in that locked cabinet that we haven't been shown? 

    Anyone care to speculate?

    I started thinking about this with people recently asking about the third continent and if they should launch without it. And another comment suggesting that once they finish  kingsreach and they start on Reignfall. 

    Who's to say these others aren't already complete and just being hidden away for launch?

    Devs, if I'm correct on this assumption, I think folks would like to know some of this (% of world created maybe? Or whatever you would be comfortable giving us) in an upcoming stream.

     

    Edit: fixed spellcheck error turning misspelled geographically into "geography"


    This post was edited by Zorkon at March 8, 2020 10:02 PM PDT
    • 287 posts
    March 7, 2020 8:35 AM PST

    Give an inch and they'll take a mile...

    They only recently started doing this regular stream and giving us more information like we had been begging for for almost a year.  I, too, would love to have a lot more information. After all, this is the most epically long wind-up for an MMORPG I've ever been part of -- long enough I've basically given up hope and just check in rarely to see if anything has changed (nope!). Given that it seems odd, even to me, that I'm saying this but: Give it time.

    They're never going to lay out their development roadmap for us.  We're never going to get any kind of milestone information other than "tada! We did a thing!" simply because we'd take that, falsely extrapolate alpha, beta and release dates, build up expectation based on that bad information then get pissed off when VR doesn't magically meet our unrealistic dates.  They're all too aware of this and aren't going to tell us anything that could be (ab)used in that way.  This process is already taking way too long and players are getting impatient.  Any kind of major upset among this community could spell big trouble for the eventual launch.  I don't envy Kilsin's job. 

    • 1921 posts
    March 7, 2020 8:38 AM PST

    An interesting exercise.  Consider this being an approximately, roughly, or slightly accurate zone list for EQ1 launch:
    Ak'Anon, Befallen, Blackburrow, Castle Mistmoore, Clan Runnyeye, Commonlands1, Commonlands2, Crushbone, Dagnor's Cauldron, East Karana, Erud's Crossing, Erudin, Erudin Palace, Estate of Unrest, Everfrost Peaks, Felwithe1, Felwithe2, Freeport1, Freeport2, Freeport3, Freeport Sewers, Gorge of King Xorbb, Greater Faydark, Grobb, Halas, High Keep, Highpass Hold, Innothule Swamp, Kaladim1, Kaladim2, Kedge Keep, Kithicor Forest, Lake Rathetear, Lavastorm Mountains, Lesser Faydark, Lower Guk, Misty Thicket, Nagafen's Lair, Najena, Nektulos Forest, Neriak1, Neriak2, Neriak3, North Karana, North Ro, Ocean of Tears, Oggok, Permafrost Keep, Plane of Fear, Plane of Hate, Plane of Sky, Qeynos1, Qeynos2, Qeynos3, Qeynos Catacombs, Qeynos Hills, Rathe Mountains, Rivervale, Solusek's Eye, South Karana, South Ro, Steamfont Mountains, Surefall Glade, Temple of Cazic-Thule, Temple of Solusek Ro, The Feerrott, Toxxulia Forest, Upper Guk, West Karana.

    69 zones (dude!)  Call it a solid 60, if you consider the way some of the zones fit together, some zones not being at launch, cities being multiples, and so on.  EQ1 was developed in 36 months, give or take.  If you give them 6 months for tool building (as, remember, every tool required in ~1996 was custom), then they built two zones per month.  If you don't consider the time to build the custom tools, they built 1.67 zones per month.  Worst case, if it was slightly more than 3 years, and the zone count is slightly lower, then did AT LEAST 1.5 zones per month, on average.

    Having all the tools pre-built, and showing off the zones they did in 2016, they've had 4 years, with all the zone tools already built (as part of Unity).  If they had to build 60 zones (say 20 per continent) then they should have been able to complete 1.25 zones per month, on average.  If they were done, and ready to launch today.  Which, you would think, if they were at that point, they would be very pleased to inform the community that all the zones were at least built, if not populated and balanced for combat/gameplay. 

    Note that there was very little difference between 2016 amberfaet and 2020 amberfaet, with respect to zone/world geometry.  They were, at least from what they showed, a reasonable hand-drawn-facsimile of "identical".

    The last public count I saw on Reddit, I think, of zones shown, in videos, was less than 20.  Possibly 11 or 12?  Out of potentially/possibly/maybe 60?  Of course, within a short time, someone is going to come in here saying "they don't need to do 60 zones, because the zones are HUGE!"  Unfortunately, there are performance considerations with respect to zone size which makes smaller zones vastly more attractive, but that's a different topic.  I don't think they've completed one continent of content/zones, yet.  That, too would be a public milestone worth communicating, which they haven't.  The three starting continents on the current/imaginary/outdated map?  I'd say there's a reasonably zero chance those are all even 2/3's done, today.

    • 1273 posts
    March 7, 2020 8:50 AM PST

    Zorkon said:

    Even now I bet they have several (dozens?) other zones in progress. Possibly even geography complete. That they just haven't shown us. People like/seem to think that they only have the half a dozen we have seen, but then things like BAM they show us this "Isle of Storms" a near complete zone with boss included. That didn't just happen in the last two weeks since the previous stream. How many other complete or near complete zones do they have sitting in that locked cabinet that we haven't been shown? 

    Anyone care to speculate?

    I started thinking about this with people recently asking about the third continent and if they should launch without it. And another comment suggesting that once they finish  kingsreach and they start on Reignfall. 

    Who's to say these others aren't already complete and just being hidden away for launch?

    Devs, if I'm correct on this assumption, I think folks would like to know some of this (% of world created maybe? Or whatever you would be comfortable giving us) in an upcoming stream.

    I almost posted something EXACTLY like this this morning, but then my kids wanted me to make them pancakes...lol.  I totally agree with you, just because they've shown us 3 really cool zones recently does NOT mean that's all they've been working on.  Not a chance.  They have no reason to show us everything they're working on, and most of us deep down inside don't even WANT to see everything they're working on.  When people sit and think they begin to realize they'd rather see most of the contest in-game as they're playing it for the first time.  

    I am super happy with the things they have chosen to show us so far and the things they are keeping secret.  I like when Joppa answers a question with "I'm not going to answer that right now" or "We don't want to give you too much at this time" etc.  

    • 624 posts
    March 7, 2020 8:52 AM PST

    Zorkon said:

    Anyone care to speculate?

    Honestly, NO. Without a peek at real data (Lynn's Gantt charts, internal milestones met to date, etc.) guessing only leads to madness. If you enjoy that game, go for it. I'll pass, at least until bards are revealed.

    P.S. I am certain there are more zones than have been shown, I just have no basis on which to hazard a guess.

    P.P.S. Mmmmmmmmm, pancakes!


    This post was edited by Kumu at March 7, 2020 8:55 AM PST
    • 557 posts
    March 7, 2020 1:30 PM PST

    The devs have given a hard PASS on commenting on percentage completion of anything or even listing prerequisites for next phases.  There's an opaque wall that we're not seeing behind as members of the general public so any speculation would be meaningless and serves only to feed the trolls.  

    • 99 posts
    March 7, 2020 3:07 PM PST

    I do think Baz is releasing a video soon listing all the zones or locations that have been shown to date. I'm sure it will help build a bigger picture of just how much content has been shown over the years and give us a consolidated look at the size of whats been put out. Baz does a great job and im excited about this video. i also think alot of zones are likely built out to some degree as far as I know the starting city of the Dark Myr has never been shown but in the 3-5 stream Joppa stated that parts of the city are underwater. This is a bit of an assumption on my part but i believe that there is at least a foundation created and some form of a city is created. I 100% have not waited nearly as long as many others only recentl stumbling accross Pantheon so maybe my optimistic outlook is abit naive

    • 379 posts
    March 7, 2020 5:02 PM PST

    Another thing to consider when thinking about zones and content - is population. Do those zones have NPC's? Are there quests? Are there connections within the zones from the inhabitants to the players?

    One of the main reasons you have multiple designers is because MMO's need tons and tons of content in relation to NPC's and quests. Those of which, generally, aren't randomly populated.

    From all we have seen, there really isn't any zone population in the Faerthale zones yet - just the environments. Content is King.

    P.S. In before "there were creatures in the Murk!" -- The few mobs we saw in the Murk looked like randomly generated Unity NPC's to test spacing (even though they did look graphically sound).

    • 1399 posts
    March 7, 2020 5:20 PM PST

    Celandor said:

    The devs have given a hard PASS on commenting on percentage completion of anything or even listing prerequisites for next phases.  There's an opaque wall that we're not seeing behind as members of the general public so any speculation would be meaningless and serves only to feed the trolls.  

    eaither your a bit mistaken or I'm reading your post wrong. They are taking a hard pass of DATES but not on listing prerequisites..

    Source Producer's Letter - December

    "What’s left before we open up PA5? This list is a lot shorter. The living codex that governs the spell and ability system is in progress. We are refining and tuning some of the above listed systems, something that will continue through Alpha and Beta. Apart from that, it’s mostly content work -- finishing up zone areas (Faerthale has several play spaces, the last of which is currently under construction) adding population, itemization, more quests and storylines."

     

    • 1399 posts
    March 7, 2020 5:28 PM PST

    Fragile said:

    Another thing to consider when thinking about zones and content - is population. Do those zones have NPC's? Are there quests? Are there connections within the zones from the inhabitants to the players?

    One of the main reasons you have multiple designers is because MMO's need tons and tons of content in relation to NPC's and quests. Those of which, generally, aren't randomly populated.

    From all we have seen, there really isn't any zone population in the Faerthale zones yet - just the environments. Content is King.

    P.S. In before "there were creatures in the Murk!" -- The few mobs we saw in the Murk looked like randomly generated Unity NPC's to test spacing (even though they did look graphically sound).

    Agreed, I'm sure they would all be in varied stages of completion. I was only refering to Geographically, the Land. That still doesnt come with just random generating some land, there is the concept planning, the layout planning at least, and then as they have shown us the grey boxing of the layout, etc. etc. 

    The populating of the zones I'm sure has been waiting on PF 

    • 2756 posts
    March 8, 2020 4:13 AM PDT

    I'm sure there's a lot more in development and even near completion than we know about.

    They have clearly made a firm decision not to tell or show us everything - they straight up say as much nearly every stream - not only to avoid spoiling the game, but to avoid feeding the trolls (but people will still chuck out extrapolated theories based on essentially calling them liars and assuming the worst).

    They straight up told us a couple streams ago that they are grey-boxing zones to design gameplay and aren't waiting for time-consuming art work to start zone building.

    Sounds to me they are doing things like population, itemisation, quests, gameplay, etc in advance of, and completely seperate from, asset generation and art work.

    I keep seeing people asking "why are they doing this in stead of finishing the game?" (like finishing Skar and Myr and improving Archai). It's clear to me the answer is: It needs doing. It's not bottle-necking the 'real' (other) game work. It's a concurrent thing. It's not all they are doing, it's just what they are showing us.

    • 62 posts
    March 8, 2020 8:56 AM PDT

    I would definitely agree that there are probably at least several other zones we've never seen at least started to or have been worked on. However, to think they are anywhere close to being done with said zones I think is foolish. Let's take a step back for a minute. Project Fairthale was first brought up in the June 2018 newsletter, it's now March 2020 and we still haven't seen the "big reveal" everyone is highly anticipating. Before you come running with pitchforks, I'm well aware that PF is not just one zone, but several. My point is though, that it's taken them upwards of a year and a half to get this far on just these handful of zones for PF and they still haven't shown us the full scope of them yet. 

    I'm not naive to the fact that other work hasn't been done in tandem to other zones to a degree. However, one could conclude that with how high a priority getting PF done and right is for them, you'd think most of their dev time would be facilitated towards completing that as people are getting restless with how long it's taking. So while I'm sure there are plenty of other zones that have been started, I can't imagine they are anywhere near complete with how long PF has taken thus far.

    • 1399 posts
    March 8, 2020 9:45 AM PDT

    Mandalorian2K said:

    I would definitely agree that there are probably at least several other zones we've never seen at least started to or have been worked on. However, to think they are anywhere close to being done with said zones I think is foolish. Let's take a step back for a minute. Project Fairthale was first brought up in the June 2018 newsletter, it's now March 2020 and we still haven't seen the "big reveal" everyone is highly anticipating. Before you come running with pitchforks, I'm well aware that PF is not just one zone, but several. My point is though, that it's taken them upwards of a year and a half to get this far on just these handful of zones for PF and they still haven't shown us the full scope of them yet. 

    I'm not naive to the fact that other work hasn't been done in tandem to other zones to a degree. However, one could conclude that with how high a priority getting PF done and right is for them, you'd think most of their dev time would be facilitated towards completing that as people are getting restless with how long it's taking. So while I'm sure there are plenty of other zones that have been started, I can't imagine they are anywhere near complete with how long PF has taken thus far.

    You totally missed what PF is/was. It's a not an accumulation of zones, or even one zone. You should check out the December Producers letter

     

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_december_producers_letter/

    • 62 posts
    March 8, 2020 5:12 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Mandalorian2K said:

    I would definitely agree that there are probably at least several other zones we've never seen at least started to or have been worked on. However, to think they are anywhere close to being done with said zones I think is foolish. Let's take a step back for a minute. Project Fairthale was first brought up in the June 2018 newsletter, it's now March 2020 and we still haven't seen the "big reveal" everyone is highly anticipating. Before you come running with pitchforks, I'm well aware that PF is not just one zone, but several. My point is though, that it's taken them upwards of a year and a half to get this far on just these handful of zones for PF and they still haven't shown us the full scope of them yet. 

    I'm not naive to the fact that other work hasn't been done in tandem to other zones to a degree. However, one could conclude that with how high a priority getting PF done and right is for them, you'd think most of their dev time would be facilitated towards completing that as people are getting restless with how long it's taking. So while I'm sure there are plenty of other zones that have been started, I can't imagine they are anywhere near complete with how long PF has taken thus far.

    You totally missed what PF is/was. It's a not an accumulation of zones, or even one zone. You should check out the December Producers letter

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_december_producers_letter/

    LOL I'm well aware of what PF is, been following this game since before the KS even launched. Maybe you should read what I actually wrote. So since you know what PF is and we are still waiting on the big reveal of that, you really believe they have numerous other zones fully done when these ones aren't yet? The same work being done in PF will need applied to ALL the other zones as well. So they might be graphically started in a sense, but are nowhere near done as a whole. Reading comprehension is a lost art I think. 

    • 1921 posts
    March 8, 2020 5:56 PM PDT

    The point of Project Faerthale was to take a small amount of time & effort to save a huge amount of time and effort.
    They have spent 1 year and 9 months, and its not done, nor have any of the public goals of the projects been realized.
    Mandalorian2K is completely correct, imo.  If you look at the most recent Amberfaet video, it's not significantly different than Amberfaet from 2016.  The world geometry is the same, the zone layout is the same.  In the intervening 4 years, they added a few store/lore elements, and that's it.  If it's recieved the "PF treatment" it's not evident, yet.
    If PF was supposed to permit completing zones faster, there's no public evidence of that.
    If PF was supposed to accomplish something other than "be the first reference zone", as stated in June 2018 and confirmed in Jan 2019, there's no public evidence that's true either.

    As a few of us suspected back in June 2018, this attempt to burn a little time now to save a little time later has not worked.  It did not work.  From the current public perspective, the stated goals of the project have failed, and all that time has been lost, that could have been better spent utilizing a proven / traditional development model.  During that same amount of time, wages have been paid, which has meant more investment capital gone and/or a commensurate increase in debt servicing.  Not positive, from a financial point of view. 
    Keep in mind, if PA5 doesn't start until June?  That means Project Faerthale, alone, will have been active for two thirds as long as it took to develop EQ1, from scratch.

    But to review your link, Zorkon, 14 items are in the list from the Dec 2019 Producers Letter, which will be three months old, in two weeks:
    - a Chat System;
    - Basic Climbing;
    - Atmospheres;
    - Climates and Acclimation;
    - Perception;
    - Basic Travel tools (like binding and gating);
    - ** all classes are currently playable;
    - ** world and player persistence (this creates the ever-living world regardless if you are online or offline);
    - a basic pet system;
    - ** basic crafting and harvesting;
    - unique NPC Behaviors and Dispositions;
    - a further-refined UI;
    - a faction system;
    - ** an updated combat and resource system.

    the ** items were possibly not shown in 2016.  Everything else was.  So in four years, they added the skills for a few classes, added persistence (maybe, they likely had database persistence in 2016), added crafting and harvesting (no demo of that so far, so afaik it's not done or confirmed), and whatever "an updated combat and resource system" actually means, which I suspect is very little.  Four years of effort.   Over 1000 working days, and that's the progress.

    That leaves what they have been working on since the December 2019 producers letter, in the past ~3 months:

    - The living codex that governs the spell and ability system is in progress.
    - We are refining and tuning some of the above listed systems, something that will continue through Alpha and Beta.
    - Apart from that, it’s mostly content work -- finishing up zone areas (Faerthale has several play spaces, the last of which is currently under construction) adding population, itemization, more quests and storylines.

    The living codex is a spell book.  Not sure why that would take any significant time, but there it is.  The art was mediocre and the UI is neither innovative nor creative.  Pathfinder Kingmaker has the same exact thing, but it looks objectively better in every way, if you're looking for a UI comparison.
    Refining and tuning, no specifics, means nothing, ongoing work through to post-launch.
    Which leaves us with... drumroll please.. .content work.  How about that?  Looks like Mandalorian2k is correct.  Amazing! There has been no "big reveal" of PF being done, to date.
    If PF was done, completely, all content, zones, goals realized, they would be moving to PA5 today.  Heck, they would have moved to PA5 back in December 2019.  They aren't done anything, and content remains their biggest hurdle.

    Just like zippyzee (Tod Curtis, VR) said: "... Art and content building is by far the largest bottleneck to getting a game done. ... "
    EDIT:  My mistake, above, I mention they had used the time to implement all classes, when that was done, up to level 40, by Jan 1, 2019.
    from: http://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_january_under_wraps/
    "Pre-Alpha
    4 finished off the year with the introduction of a very early version of Faerthale. All classes were implemented in-game and playable up to level 40."


    This post was edited by vjek at March 9, 2020 8:27 AM PDT
    • 2000 posts
    March 8, 2020 6:31 PM PDT

    Mandalorian2K said:

    The same work being done in PF will need applied to ALL the other zones as well.

    From the Producers letter "Of the systems completed for PA5 (with varying degrees of polish and tuning), we offer a Chat System; Basic Climbing; Atmospheres; Climates and Acclimation; Perception; Basic Travel tools (like binding and gating); all classes are currently playable; world and player persistence (this creates the ever-living world regardless if you are online or offline); a basic pet system; basic crafting and harvesting; unique NPC Behaviors and Dispositions; a further-refined UI; a faction system; and an updated combat and resource system. What’s left before we open up PA5? This list is a lot shorter. The living codex that governs the spell and ability system is in progress. We are refining and tuning some of the above listed systems, something that will continue through Alpha and Beta."

    Those systems mentioned are a huge amount of what makes up the game. Every part of the game, in every zone. So no, they won't need to redo that for every other zone. THAT is the point of Faerthale - and much of what VR has been doing over the last several years.

    No one anywhere is claiming that there are lots of other zones nearly finished.There's still tons of art and content creation to be done. But when Faerthale is done and fully playable, a major part of the game 'engine' will be up and running.

     

    Mandalorian2K said: My point is though, that it's taken them upwards of a year and a half to get this far on just these handful of zones for PF and they still haven't shown us the full scope of them yet. 

    My point is that assuming it will take as long for every other area as it took to get the FIRST full zone up and running as a playable microcosm of the entire game reflects a lack of understanding of the process VR is following in creating the game.

     

     

    • 1921 posts
    March 8, 2020 7:20 PM PDT

    If it's not their intention to apply the lessons learned and value added from Faerthale to all the zones, then what was the point of the project?
    If you instead agree they will, then it's simply a matter of degree in application; the effort and time required to apply whatever will be gained, when it's done, to all the zones.
    It's impossible to misunderstand the process or goals that PF was supposed to achieve.  They were stated in June 2018, quite plainly, and again reiterated in January 2019, late last year, Brad also confirmed them and the timelines.  That's the process VR has been following since June 2018.

    • 2000 posts
    March 8, 2020 8:20 PM PDT

    vjek said:

    If it's not their intention to apply the lessons learned and value added from Faerthale to all the zones, then what was the point of the project?

    I said nothing about "lessons learned and value added" in my post. You added that. Your attempt to twist my statement into an easily defeated 'straw man argument' is transparent.

    This thread, Mandalorian2K's post and my reply are not about lessons learned or value added. They are about the pace of development.

    His statement that "The same work being done in PF will need applied to ALL the other zones as well." is what I replied to. Very much of the work that has been done during Project Faerthale will NOT have to be repeated in the construction of later zones.

    It's impossible to misunderstand such a simple exchange. Though your attempt to alter the intent of my post shows clearly that you didn't misunderstand.

    • 379 posts
    March 8, 2020 9:03 PM PDT

    Jothany said:

    This thread, Mandalorian2K's post and my reply are not about lessons learned or value added. They are about the pace of development.

    His statement that "The same work being done in PF will need applied to ALL the other zones as well." is what I replied to. Very much of the work that has been done during Project Faerthale will NOT have to be repeated in the construction of later zones.

    It's impossible to misunderstand such a simple exchange. Though your attempt to alter the intent of my post shows clearly that you didn't misunderstand.

    You are misunderstanding Mandalorian's point though. Art & Content (quests, NPC's, story, perception chains, etc) are the big bottlekneck to zone creation - not - Acclimation/Combat/Chat/Atmospheres/Mechanics ie lots of programming stuff. Those are all systems that should be done in PF. If those are indeed complete - then what's left? The ART and CONTENT - the slowest parts.

    • 56 posts
    March 8, 2020 10:51 PM PDT

    I don't get the impression that there are too many that we haven't seen at least a glimpse of or heard a bit about. 

     

    On my end it looks as though as new systems were adopted, worked in to the game or came online they realized they needed a cohesive zone model (Faerthale) to showcase them all, test how they work together, tweak tools for and have a base model that future zones would follow with the notion that doing so would make all future zone creation much more streamlined and have a faster turn around.

     

    Which I'm ok with, if it works and that's the plan. It would make sense to me. 

    • 1921 posts
    March 9, 2020 7:17 AM PDT

    Jothany said:... Very much of the work that has been done during Project Faerthale will NOT have to be repeated in the construction of later zones.
    What work are you referring to that will not have to be repeated in the construction of later zones?
    Or put another way, what does PF being complete offer to subsequent zone construction?

    • 368 posts
    March 9, 2020 7:31 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    Jothany said:... Very much of the work that has been done during Project Faerthale will NOT have to be repeated in the construction of later zones.
    What work are you referring to that will not have to be repeated in the construction of later zones?
    Or put another way, what does PF being complete offer to subsequent zone construction?

     

    I believe he is referring to systems development aspect of PF and not zone construction.

    • 1921 posts
    March 9, 2020 8:24 AM PDT

    Hm.  If the value of PF was to reduce the time it took to make subsequent zones, but it doesn't reduce the time to construct the zone, how has it provided value?
    From the June 2018 newsletter:
    "As our Reference Zone, Faerthale needs to have all of the gameplay systems intact and functioning properly, with all of their various parts, so that we have an accurate picture to reference when we begin implementing all of these systems into the rest of our zones."
    "Begin implementing" would seem to indicate some value from PF would be implemented in "the rest of our zones".

    To date, all of the PF gameplay systems aren't "intact and functioning properly."  Some of them are.  Some aren't.  So, it's not done, and can't be used as a reference yet. 1 year + 9 months later, what happened to the zones made during that 1 year + 9 months?  And what value will it offer (if not art & content related, as is the claim in this thread), for time savings in those subsequent or "rest of" the zones?
    I'm not being facetious here, I genuinely am trying to see how they planned this out, and how the time savings can now be realized. 
    If this is a groundbreaking new time-saving technique in MMO development/SDLC, it should be easy to enumerate and reproduce.

    • 523 posts
    March 9, 2020 8:29 AM PDT

    I float in the middle on Pantheon between will launch and will never launch.  I'm probably more negative than positive overall, but then the development snafu's since pre-kickstarter have warranted it.  That being said, I think they are clearly (maybe for the first time) on track now (and have been for a little while) and appear to be a legitimate company that has a decent chance to see this through to release.  The game died once (Christian fuzzy troll era), was resuscitated with Joppa in charge, and then was basically re-designed from the ground up and rebooted.  That was 3-4 years ago.  In the last two years key staff has been hired, former employees that might not have been up to snuff were replaced, and this "shot in the dark" with Chris Perkins has appeared to be successful.  There is a game now that functions and doesn't look like crap.  But yeah, the original development timeline was shot to hell.  Just like the original game concept.

     As for Project Faerthale, I think it has been slow to develop, but the size of the team and shoe-string budget demand that be the case.  These guys are trying to program in some fairly complex systems, and that's the time constraint.  The artists are still finishing up character models after the redesign (appear to be close to finished now) and that should free up more time to create npc assets.  Everybody is spread pretty thin as they get the core gameplay in place, but I think their progress is not only solid, but notable.  Also, the point of Project Faerthale is to raise money.  This is going to be their in-depth demo that they can pitch to investors to raise the funding to get this through to actual launch.  With one of the core concepts being hiring additional staff and speeding up the pace.  They have to get PF right or else this game will never see the light of day.  Is it fair to the players that invested since Day 1?  Not really.  But that's the risk with development, sometimes projects need to be scrapped and rebooted and it just takes much longer than originally thought.  For my part, I'm as optomistic as ever, but I don't expect to see an Alpha until 2021, and that's only if the game gets significantly more funding, which I tend to think it will after the fairly impressive Faerthale reveal.  


    This post was edited by Mathir at March 9, 2020 8:30 AM PDT
    • 368 posts
    March 9, 2020 8:34 AM PDT

    At this point we dont really know what is done and what is not. Reading into things that were written 4-5 years ago, comparing it to what was written 2 years ago and then speculating where they are at now is at best, just a guess. Even if something has been shown in a newsletter or in a stream, it may still be subject to futher development.

    I never saw PF as some uber new way to design zones. I always saw it as a reckoning and implementation of game systems. AI, Crafting, Combat, Quests, Perception, Climate Systems, UX development. You know, the stuff that will be common to the game regardless of the zone.


    This post was edited by arazons at March 9, 2020 8:34 AM PDT