Ya, I get it. You were just offering a creative way to ban people. The devs have actually mentioned prison servers before.
I'm still hoping for some clarification on what the PNP will be and how they expect to regulate it considering the small team but I know that is a different conversation.
I'm not offended by the use of the word hell, or the name of the server. The point I meant to make was that I expect to play with people on my server that are nice, mean, smart, dumb, comitted to the game, comitted to their family, etc. I want all kinds of people, not just the nice players on my server.
I think you have good ideas, I just personally don't agree with them. Hope that's ok :)
Malkiyah said: Just take a breath, and think.
Just take a breath and think...of a better excuse if you're going to evade the question.
Malkiyah said:Basically I think we assume the toxic type might not be honest and might have to be forced to hell (or they behave). I suppose it could be an option off the hop to just choose the hell server where killstealings the norm. Thanks for the idea and adding something.
If you think there are kind, honest, fair-minded toxic players who will just 'do the right thing' and choose the 'toxic player' server then I suggest you take off your rose colored glasses.
Players who love kill stealing, ninja looting, etc. benefit enormously from getting to 'compete' against considerate, fair-minded players. Not to mention the % of them who just love the butthurt they cause their victims. Few if any of those players are going to voluntarily limit their playing to a server full of others who will try to do the same thing to them.
Ranarius said:I'm not offended by the use of the word hell, or the name of the server. The point I meant to make was that I expect to play with people on my server that are nice, mean, smart, dumb, comitted to the game, comitted to their family, etc. I want all kinds of people, not just the nice players on my server.
I think you have good ideas, I just personally don't agree with them. Hope that's ok :)
Honestly ths is is how both my wife and I feel. I think itll sort itself out, as it did back in the early 2000s. Even made the argument to that effect, but the other boot was pretty heavy... and made great points as well. I made this thread because people are making suggestions in several threads for different measures of censorship due to the fear of end game chicanery. Some methods include naming shaming, and social credit scores with players getting likes and stuff like that. I made this thread to try to perhaps have better ideas than that. This is all my friend. Differing opinions are great. Its all this hateful back biting stuff Im not into.
Honestly ths is is how both my wife and I feel. I think itll sort itself out, as it did back in the early 2000s. Even made the argument to that effect, but the other boot was pretty heavy... and made great points as well. I made this thread because people are making suggestions in several threads for different measures of censorship due to the fear of end game chicanery. Some methods include naming shaming, and social credit scores with players getting likes and stuff like that. I made this thread to try to perhaps have better ideas than that. This is all my friend. Differing opinions are great. Its all this hateful back biting stuff Im not into.
Haha, it would be like that episode of Black Mirror where the girl couldn't get her appartment because she didn't have enough likes in social media. Ack, let's not head that direction :) Totally agree with brainstorming better ideas than that!
The devs could create a "walk of shame" status. While flagged in this way your UI has limited functionality (no hotbars or tradeskills available) and you become flagged for pvp (even on pve servers) until you take enough dmg from X number of "different" players limiting the % of damage a single player does to contribute to the clearing of the flag. The player cannot be reduced below 1hp by another player (even if the amount of damage you must take exceeds your maximum HP - but the total dmg required is not known and determined by the severity of the offense). Players attacking someone flagged for the walk of shame do not become flag for PvP and gain good faction within the city the damage is dealt.
If the player dies from PvE (which would be quite likely since their action bars are disabled) they suffer the regular death penalty but cannot regain exp from resurrection since they do not have the favor of the dieties.
That's how you allow the community to police their own - I bet people would definitely "play nice" then lol. If the same person got flagged multiple times, the community could decide to not deal damage to the player.
To be honest I thought this was a troll post until I continued to read more comments and saw that it was a serious idea. I mean that not as disrespect but to help allude to just how bad of an idea I personally think this would be.
1. It's pointless. Aside from it being a waste of resources, what incentive do these "toxic" players have to continue to play on that server? What's the point of this other than to give the holier than thou 'player reporters' a sick sense of power and satisfaction for ruining another's expierence.
2. If someone is in direct violation of the ToS, then either suspend or ban there account. It's that simple.
3. Keep the role playing to those who wish to participate and to role playing servers. Please do not try to force it into a game mechanic. The last thing I want to see is some arbitrary jail where someone is forced to play a 12 hour session of candy crush to earn playtime back.
I admit some of the opinions in this thread were a bit eye opening for me - please excuse my naivety. After further reflection, I believe it is a worthy discussion which is why I took the time here to put in my 2 cents.
Not everyone sees/defines inappropriate or "toxic" behavior the same way, but that's a whole other argument. Any system that involves players deciding who gets to play or what privileges they lose is very bad for the game imo, and it would be one of the few hard turn offs to me playing the game ( emphasis on playing, cause I've surely bought Pantheon many times over by now, lol).
Feel free to send me to forum jail or hell for this toxic response, as I'm sure I deserve it. :)
Kass said:Feel free to send me to forum jail or hell for this toxic response, as I'm sure I deserve it. :)
Because of statements like this WE ARE ALREADY THERE!
He simply was offering the idea of 2 server sets where one is free for all (for those who play that way) and one is a play nice zone (for those who play that way). The gms detirmine the rule breakers (since they wont sort themselves out) like he said in the very first post...... Not "player reporters with a sick sense of power" All of the "holier than thou" and the "how stupid" "sick sense of power" etc statements are literally thoughts and ideas out of the storehouse of your own hearts and minds.
It was a fair solution to a problem no ones addressing. The problem being in this world its totally ok to step on peoples heads to get by (rush content and win), and so in game its not a bannable behaviour - just unsavory and the source of petition after petition~ even though it ruins both lifes, nothings done to seperate the ideologies, but one ideology suffers while another abuses. I unerstand what hes saying. Ive seen no other proposed solution to this issue.
I have seen plenty of threads like this before, people trying to come up with ideas for how to limit or outright get rid of people that ninja loot, kill steal, and everything else on that nature. Some suggestions have been completely ground out because some seem to think, "(modern game) did it, so it's bad!" I'm not saying everyone is saying this, but there are some I have seen on here that do say it outright or think it at least. There are solutions to this that work and have been known to work, despite no one seeming to like them. After reading thread after thread of this, and watching discussion after discussion, the only solutions I see to these are:
-Just have it where the first to tag it is the one that gets it, no one else gets anything from it whether they help or not. After all, most people have said they help people just to help a person they see in trouble.
-Have things instanced. Again, what's wrong with having things like dungeons and such instanced.
I have tried to go over everything that everyone has said, every thread and discussion, I have watched more than I have participated, and the only solutions that keep circling back are these two. Even though no one seems to like them, this seems to be the only solutions that seem to work and keep majority of people happy.
Kass said:2. If someone is in direct violation of the ToS, then either suspend or ban there account. It's that simple.
I admit some of the opinions in this thread were a bit eye opening for me - please excuse my naivety. After further reflection, I believe it is a worthy discussion which is why I took the time here to put in my 2 cents.
Not everyone sees/defines inappropriate or "toxic" behavior the same way, but that's a whole other argument. Any system that involves players deciding who gets to play or what privileges they lose is very bad for the game imo, and it would be one of the few hard turn offs to me playing the game ( emphasis on playing, cause I've surely bought Pantheon many times over by now, lol).
Feel free to send me to forum jail or hell for this toxic response, as I'm sure I deserve it. :)
i think banning or suspending is a last resort from a business perspective. a bad customer is still a paying customer. it's not like they are robbing vr(unless hacking, exploitation, etc.) manners can always be cultivated.
i think moving them to a pvp server permanenantly is fine. they can pay additional irl money via cash shop to move back. pvers tend to have a more stringent code of conduct and pvpers are will gladly 'take care' of our new inmates. bad manners is still frowned upon on pvp servers, except we tend to dish punishment since it is within our own hands to do so.
players that do have bad manners, will either learn real quick or get good enough to continue bad manners. either way, it breeds a stronger player for either better or worse. i would like to say pvpers are probably more open to a variety of attitudes as long as you have the ability to back it up.
sometimes, i feel that pvers are much too quick to judge a player. well. whatever.
stellarmind said:send us your trash players. we gurantee either full reform or ptsd players that'll never step out of pve guidelines. if not, we'll keep them. rejoice! for the time of salvation and damnation has come! there's never enough room here in hell! HHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHA. blood for the blood god! skulls for the skull throne! WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!
**Backs away slowly, making soft, calming sounds**
:D
While this may seem to be a good idea to remove "toxic" players from the general community, there are a few issues that we are not addressing. This server would indeed HAVE to have GM and other forms of CS activity - perhaps even more than a normal server. You cannot just let the wolves run with the wolves when you start to consider real-world implications and issues. I have had to contact the FBI for certain issues while a GM. I have also handled a number of "Suicide" calls. In one of the titles i worked on, we recorded pretty much every keystroke. We knew exactly who said what and when. In every single case. At the very moment that it happened. And this was over 10 years ago. I am certain the good folks at VR are more than apt at covering their butts if need-be. I will also state that in every single case that I had to suspend or even ban someone I took it as a failure on my part. I always felt that somehow I failed to communicate to the person that their behavior would result in us losing them as a paying customer and a gamer. Still, I had to ban/suspend people way too often.
"The Isalnd of Misfit Toys" concept is simply not worth the time/money required to keep it running.
philo said:This is fine but it doesn't address the issue. Ban them, move them to a hell server, whatever.
The issue is how you define the PNP and how you enforce it.
I think this is a good point and something that needs to be considered. In EQ online gaming wasn't main stream. You had a smaller tight knit community. Those communities were typically inclined to work together because there were generally more like minded. Having a computer with internet and playing a MMO was niche and attracted a certain type of "nerd". That isn't the case anymore. For all of the ideas everyone throws out about policing our own servers like we did in EQ unless VR takes a very heavy handed approach to punishments it wont be very effective. While I still believe the game should be designed around the idea that the servers are able to police themselves its best to prepare for a wort case scenario and VR needs to take steps to enforce a PNP.
Open world MMO's have so many more ways someone can exploit or ruin anothers playtime just by the meer fact that people aren't in instances when they are doing difficult or challenging content.
Kass said:Any system that involves players deciding who gets to play or what privileges they lose is very bad for the game imo, and it would be one of the few hard turn offs to me playing the game ( emphasis on playing, cause I've surely bought Pantheon many times over by now, lol).
Then you're also against trial by jury in real life? Just sayin'...
Rather than wholly separate prison servers why not put abberant players in jail on the same servers? Build a prison "zone", one without bars except the zone lines cannot be crossed until your sentence is expired and the only accessible chat is for that one zone. Guards outside the zone will "capture" (slaughter) players that try to escape too soon. Inside the zone is a free for all where unarmored, unarmed prisoners can do whatever they like and must often have to defend themselves from random mob spawns (which drop nothing of value). The sentence only counts down while the player is actively logged in so sentences should be "12 hours" rather than "3 months".
Whatever the solution, I'm all for something being done about toxic players beyond relying on the community to ostracise them. We all know that will never be all that effective. Some players, even whole guilds, just enjoy being asshats. The only reason this behavior isn't more prevalent in real life is because there are real consequences to your actions (if you're caught). If there is some way to enact real consequences in the game world, too, I'll gladly get behind it.
Akilae said:Then you're also against trial by jury in real life? Just sayin'...
So you're in favor of people who have a personal self-interest in the outcome of the trial being allowed on the jury?
Just sayin'...
this sounds like a wonderful solution, but rather than kicking their character over to the hell server, they could be locked out of all servers except the hell server (requiring them to make a new character on that server if they hadn't already). This would prevent people from being able to exploint punishment for personal gain in the event the punishment was only temporary.
