Proposal:
1. VR establishes a well outlined play policy concerning kill stealing, raid cycles, codes of conduct etc.
2. Violators who are reported and subsequently proven guilty through in house logs are warned. (severe warnings could include in game cages/prison temporarily)
3. Repeat offenders are kicked to hell servers with no rule sets. No play nice. Perhaps even forced pvp.
4. (optional) Guilds/PCs could chose this lawless server option freely?
This feature would have PC as well as guild wide ramifications, and require little GM interaction.
I like the idea as well, though it would only make sense if there would be a decent amount of offenders which I'm not sure if that'll be the case - at least not in numbers warranting a separate server for them ... Alternatively they could be just moved to PvP server instead (tagged perhaps), where the rest of community would quickly deal with them.
hilarious idea, but would this hell server be permanent or just a specific amount of time in a penalty box? That server could get pretty overhelmed over time. If it is a temporary ban, it might even encourage bad behavior for guilds to bump over to a less populated server to get a rare kill.
Kumu said:Already existed in the past except instead of the expense of setting up / maintaining special servers accounts were just banned / CCs logged.
May have some role play use, but I'd rather stick to enjoying my gaming then seek revenge or schadenfreude.
Eye dont seek revenge. Eye dont even think that way. This is just a method to keep the toxic players out of the See of play nice players.
other than that thanks for adding~
Well, I can understand your point but to put it in context. I played EQ1 about 2 characters to level 40 and in EQ2 I played 2 characters to max level and got my epic. Now I am not sure how many hours this is, but in all that time combined I was only "victim" to offensive kill stealing once, and I had only 2 or 3 people on a blacklist/ignore list
Then I played WOW, only 1 character to level 35 and in that time I was "victim" to the same kind of offensive kill stealing 5 - 10 times and I can't recall how long my blacklist/ignore list was.
Since Pantheon seems to be going for people who like more risk vs reward - witch if my experience with EQ vs WOW is correct - are simply more well-behaved people so I don't think it is that needed.
I lean a lot more towards letting players work it out as much a possible and just have a standard play-nice policy, instead of a written-all-in-red-letters contract making people afraid of making a pull for a mob because they fear some lawyer player will be using every little statement in the contract against others.
randomrob82 said:hilarious idea, but would this hell server be permanent or just a specific amount of time in a penalty box? That server could get pretty overhelmed over time. If it is a temporary ban, it might even encourage bad behavior for guilds to bump over to a less populated server to get a rare kill.
Good question........ Perhaps folks could work outta hell and ascend back into the over realm? It certainly couldnt be convienient.
Another hell can always be opened when hell gets filled though. Thats convienient.
Nusser said:
I lean a lot more towards letting players work it out as much a possible and just have a standard play-nice policy, instead of a written-all-in-red-letters contract making people afraid of making a pull for a mob because they fear some lawyer player will be using every little statement in the contract against others.
I to agree and lean with you here. I have however begun to get concerned with other methods that are being suggested all over the forums, and I have heard good arguments for getting ahead of the ball.
aren't hell servers pvp servers? hell, we'll take any meat. meat is meat and pvpers love meat. btw there is only 1 pvp server. one societies trash is another societies food. aren't you happy pvpers exist pvers? we'll condition them just right so they know to play nice in the comforts of heaven servers.
to all the hell bound pvpers: FRESH MEAT!
stellarmind said:aren't hell servers pvp servers? hell, we'll take any meat. meat is meat and pvpers love meat. btw there is only 1 pvp server. one societies trash is another societies food. aren't you happy pvpers exist pvers? we'll condition them just right so they know to play nice in the comforts of heaven servers.
to all the hell bound pvpers: FRESH MEAT!
I think itd be hilarious if they were dropped onto the pvp servers, but that might be to far lol.
Malkiyah said:I think itd be hilarious if they were dropped onto the pvp servers, but that might be to far lol.
as my daddy use to say: YO GON LERN, BOY. we teach em real good. ehehe. reminds me of that juvvie tv show where kids that think they are hard get waxed in jail. those kids end up living very modest or even upstanding life.
stellarmind said:as my daddy use to say: YO GON LERN, BOY. we teach em real good. ehehe. reminds me of that juvvie tv show where kids that think they are hard get waxed in jail. those kids end up living very modest or even upstanding life.
Some of those kids fit right in and end up being rock boss.
Malkiyah said:Some of those kids fit right in and end up being rock boss.
win win for pvers then right? they stay on the pvp servers cuz something inside of them has awakened. we, the representatives of the hell server(1 pvp server only), hereby make a committiment to ALL pver servers: send us your trash players. we gurantee either full reform or ptsd players that'll never step out of pve guidelines. if not, we'll keep them. rejoice! for the time of salvation and damnation has come! there's never enough room here in hell! HHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHA. blood for the blood god! skulls for the skull throne! WOOOOOHOOOOOOO!
IF the point is to remove toxic players from the rest of us, banning is easier and cheaper than creating/maintaining a separate server.
IF the point is to punish toxic players, then you have to make 'hell server' contain a version of the game that NO ONE enjoys playing. (Which I think will be nearly as difficult as making a game that EVERYONE enjoys playing) Otherwise, the punishment becomes an empy threat to those who enjoy the hell server.
But assuming that you succeed at making it a place that one one wants to play on, then pretty much anyone sent there will just not log in until their 'sentence' is over.
Which again makes the creation of the hell server a waste of resources.
Jothany said:IF the point is to remove toxic players from the rest of us, banning is easier and cheaper than creating/maintaining a separate server.
IF the point is to punish toxic players, then you have to make 'hell server' contain a version of the game that NO ONE enjoys playing. (Which I think will be nearly as difficult as making a game that EVERYONE enjoys playing) Otherwise, the punishment becomes an empy threat to those who enjoy the hell server.
But assuming that you succeed at making it a place that one one wants to play on, then pretty much anyone sent there will just not log in until their 'sentence' is over.
Which again makes the creation of the hell server a waste of resources.
The goal is to allow the players who love rushing content and crushing people in their way their own servers, so we all can have what we want and protf gets fully paid. This is anything but wasteful from my perspective. It even frees up non stop petitions against the toxic behaviour.
Its a loose idea, and maybe not even a good one. But it sure beats other things ive heard which was basically carbon copy CCP type stuff. I realize the general tendancy is to naysay and critique, but we should build a good idea around this topic. Its stated all over the place how the end games going to play out, and people lament it... and question the devs about how they will safe guard end game... then they lament the devs ideas, but no ones giving stellar advice.
Im confident the community could work together and create a great system of checks and balances to police our playerbase for the health of our game. Some sort of justice system that would at the very least make lawful conduct willfully adhered to in game...... and maybe not in another?
Malkiyah said:1. VR establishes a well outlined play policy ...
2. Violators who are reported and subsequently proven guilty through in house logs are warned...
3. Repeat offenders are kicked to hell servers...
Malkiyah said: The goal is to allow the players who love rushing content and crushing people in their way their own servers, so we all can have what we want and protf gets fully paid. This is anything but wasteful from my perspective. It even frees up non stop petitions against the toxic behaviour.
Kindly decide what you are advocating for.
You started out describing an enforcement solution to players breaking a "play policy". Enforcement of rules does not require the voluntary participation of those who are enforced upon. Hence the word 'force' in enforcement.
Now you describe it in extremely different terms. If this is your original intention, then kindly tell us the magic trick of getting those who "love rushing content and crushing people in their way" to all CHOOSE to play together on a 'hell server' of toxic players.
Jothany said:Malkiyah said:1. VR establishes a well outlined play policy ...
2. Violators who are reported and subsequently proven guilty through in house logs are warned...
3. Repeat offenders are kicked to hell servers...
Malkiyah said: The goal is to allow the players who love rushing content and crushing people in their way their own servers, so we all can have what we want and protf gets fully paid. This is anything but wasteful from my perspective. It even frees up non stop petitions against the toxic behaviour.Kindly decide what you are advocating for.
You started out describing an enforcement solution to players breaking a "play policy". Enforcement of rules does not require the voluntary participation of those who are enforced upon. Hence the word 'force' in enforcement.
Now you describe it in extremely different terms. If this is your original intention, then kindly tell us the magic trick of getting those who "love rushing content and crushing people in their way" to all CHOOSE to play together on a 'hell server' of toxic players.
You typed it out for me pretty well. Just take a breath, and think.
Basically I think we assume the toxic type might not be honest and might have to be forced to hell (or they behave). I suppose it could be an option off the hop to just choose the hell server where killstealings the norm. Thanks for the idea and adding something.
I guess I'm going to be the minority here. I like the fact that we would be forced to learn to either cooperate, or NOT cooperate, with the other people we happen to be on a server with.
If anything, maybe they should make a "play nice" server and leave the rest as "normal" servers. No need to call one a "hell server" ... that implies that everyone who plays this game on normal servers should all behave in the same way. I just am not sure I'm on board with that.
I take the good with the bad, it's all part of the experience that creates memories for me. I have some great memories of amazing accomplishments and I have some other great memories of times that maybe something "bad" happened to me. Someone stole some loot, someone scammed me in a trade, someone stole a kill, etc. For me, it's all part of the world that contains risk/reward. The other players and their behavior is all part of the risk reward.
I'm ok being the minority on this though.
I was more interested in the lore aspect that "hell" could illicit. It would have a whole nother name (example/spit balling) and just represent a different dimension of thought per say? It doesnt have to be so devisive. I realize everyone is touchy these days but Im really not trying to offend...... Im just trying to speak up for a large swath of the community who is openly concerned about this factor with little known about the methods being employed to eliminate the poor behaviour.
Philo, the pnp could be defined by VR, with micro decisions defined by the server. It could be enforced by gms armed with logs like the old days? Im really hoping theres a strong in game support team. Perhaps we should be talking about that?