Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Bags... inside of other bags.

    • 115 posts
    February 25, 2020 8:49 AM PST

    It would be ince to be able to put bags with stuff in them... inside other bags.

     

    Example: 

    If you have a 4-slot bag with food and drink in it. You could put that bag into a different 8 slot bag. 

    It would still count toward your encumbrance, but it would free up more general inventory slots.

     

    This would help greatly for inventory management.

    • 36 posts
    February 25, 2020 9:04 AM PST

    That is definitely how some other games have done it. I don't know if that is the plan with Pantheon.

    • 2419 posts
    February 25, 2020 9:04 AM PST

    Infinite storage...that's bad. 

    • 1785 posts
    February 25, 2020 9:13 AM PST

    I get wanting to organize but yeah, infinite storage is bad.

    • 1273 posts
    February 25, 2020 9:43 AM PST

    It wouldn't be infinite storage (which I do agree is bad), but it maybe wouldn't be terrible to put a small bag inside a larger bag.  Maybe only a certain number of smaller bags fit into larget bags, etc.  

    But, with that said, I really like a small inventory (again goes back to making choices) and I'd rather they spend their time on other things.  

    • 1399 posts
    February 25, 2020 9:44 AM PST

    Nephele said:

    I get wanting to organize but yeah, infinite storage is bad.

    Exactly,

    What's the difference between a 4 slot bag inside your 8 slot bag, or just make it a 12 slot bag in the first place? What you're really asking for is just more bag space, bigger bags.

    • 287 posts
    February 25, 2020 10:26 AM PST

    I like the idea, with limitations. I wouldn't mind seeing small bags that were limited to certain items: a lunchbox that was limited to food/drink; an enchanted gatherer's bag that was limited to foraged items; an enchanted tinker's satchel that was limited to parts from decomposed items; an extra quiver (your actual quiver should not be in a bag if you are to be able to pull arrows from it), etc.

     

    I want a game with a lot of different things you can get in the world, but not have it be too cumbersome in having to go back and forth from town to make space. I would like to see weight/encumberance be the bottleneck over inventory space.

    • 1315 posts
    February 25, 2020 10:46 AM PST

    Two ways to do this.

    1)      a) A maximum quality Giant bag can hold 8 large items.

    b) A large bag takes up a large inventory slot and can hold up to 8 medium items

    c) and so on down to tiny.

    d) Only your 8 base inventory slots can hold a Giant item

    e) collapsed bags can be one size smaller but not a container at that point.

    2) Kill slot based inventories with hellfire and bitlocker malware.

                    a) Assign all items a realistic and game relevant mass and volume

                    b) Give bags both a volume and mass capacity

                    c) No items stack for purposes of consuming mass and volume, though they may be numbered for UI reasons.

                    d) Give the inventory UI some real sort and organizational tools maybe even “sub compartments”.           

     

    Neither way gives you infinite inventory and there are plenty of ways to still make upgrading bags interesting.  Either way will help solve the issues inherent for crafting in a very limited number of unique object inventory systems.

    Bank Boxes could be individual giant containers either slot based or volume based.

    • 1273 posts
    February 25, 2020 10:53 AM PST

    ... Either way will help solve the issues inherent for crafting in a very limited number of unique object inventory systems.

    I'm not sure what the issues are, even for crafting?  I was a major crafter in EQ and it had limitted inventory as well.  I never remember that being a problem.

    • 2752 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:00 AM PST

    I really don't foresee 8 inventory slots with a likely 80-96+ total with the largest bags in each as being something that also needs nested bags for more space. In EQ you would often be encumbered long before you fill every slot and I suspect the same will be true here.

    • 71 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:20 AM PST

    Bonechip said:

    It would be ince to be able to put bags with stuff in them... inside other bags.

     

    Example: 

    If you have a 4-slot bag with food and drink in it. You could put that bag into a different 8 slot bag. 

    It would still count toward your encumbrance, but it would free up more general inventory slots.

     

    This would help greatly for inventory management.

    I did a mockup of how this would look like without going over all of the bags and with just 1 bag that has a space of 12 in it all of which having a bag. You'll then be getting a bagspace of roughly 144 and your inventory will look something that'll look like this (quick paint mockup)



    Now if each one of those bags also contain a full set of bags that contains 12 inventory space you'll then be looking at an inventory space count of roughly 1728, if my math is correct. So while it might appear to be a good idea, i think the stress load this would cause the server might be... an issue, especially for a Unity engine. But i do like the idea myself as i always love to carry everything i own but realistically i cannot see this being a real possiblity in that mockup i did. 


    This post was edited by znushu at February 25, 2020 11:22 AM PST
    • 368 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:36 AM PST

    I am confused? Why not just ask for bigger bags if thats what your after. Having 40 slot bags is certainly easier than playing "Inception: The bag within the bag within the bag". Not that I am for such large unrealistic inventory space, just saying...

    • 1315 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:37 AM PST

    @Ranarius

    EQ crafting had relatively few unique items that were utilized in crafting.  The system had zero customization outside of Fine Plate dyes and virtually no in game value other than tailoring having bags and monk armor.  Velious chains and epics started tieing in crafting as a time and cash sync but then the quest item was the only thing that had value and not anything actually crafted.  I would guess 99% of crafted items have been vendored or outright destroyed through out the life span of EQ.

    Any complex system of crafting that rivals dropped items is going to require collecting rare materials and combining them will special technics into base items constructed from mundane materials. 

    Each stat and proc will each need to have a rare material and they will range from poor to mythic quality.

    And if there are 8 base material types (one for each race) for each craft with a quality of poor to pristine.

    An outfitter can then make cloth or leather armor of any of the stat combinations you end up with a truly huge number of unique objects involved with just outfitting and that’s before you consider any secondary items like threads, buckles and rivets, tannin and pigments.

     

    @Iksar

    There is an argument to be made for player inventories that are say 10% the size of bank/crafter hall/house size.  Having a secondary location to store your hunted good that is easily accessible but not always accessible also gets around the inventory limitations.

    There is also potential for large items to be unstackable, medium items up to 8, small 64 and tiny 128.  Or 5, 20 and 100 if that’s more to everyone liking.  Then object size will have a larger effect on what you pick up while still staying with a universal slot size. Over all though I don’t like it as 3 tiny objects still takes up as much inventory space as 1 large object.

    • 1315 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:44 AM PST

    arazons said:

    I am confused? Why not just ask for bigger bags if thats what your after. Having 40 slot bags is certainly easier than playing "Inception: The bag within the bag within the bag". Not that I am for such large unrealistic inventory space, just saying...

    I am honestly more interested in mass/volume inventories just for the easy way they can be searched and sorted.  SWG had a similar inventory system and it was my favorite MMO inventory system to date.

    • 368 posts
    February 25, 2020 11:53 AM PST

    Trasak said:

    arazons said:

    I am confused? Why not just ask for bigger bags if thats what your after. Having 40 slot bags is certainly easier than playing "Inception: The bag within the bag within the bag". Not that I am for such large unrealistic inventory space, just saying...

    I am honestly more interested in mass/volume inventories just for the easy way they can be searched and sorted.  SWG had a similar inventory system and it was my favorite MMO inventory system to date.

     

    I was thinking something like personal depot's that reside in crafting centers (or in housing if that comes down the road) would be useful. Like EQ2's, where people can access a good sized inventory to store things for tradeskills. People would have access their own inventory instance in the same "world crate" near crafting areas. Can make the crate global or local to that specific location doesnt matter to me. But being able to stash tradeskill items near where you need to use them seems sensible to me. 

    • 26 posts
    February 25, 2020 1:05 PM PST

    How about item, or more specifically consumable, compression? You could magically compress consumables (potions, food, flasks, elixirs, what have you) so that they take less space and weigh less, if item weight is going to be a thing. The limitation here would be that the wrapper/container can only be created at a Shrine of Cramming, or whatever, that are located in large cities and possibly some smaller settlements. A crafted item from, say, an outfitter would be required for the cloth/leather bundle that contains your consumables, along with a magical catalyst created by, say, an alchemist. These items would obviously be tradeable and anyone can use them without any restrictions. Once you open your bundle/container/wrapper, whatever it shall eventually be called, the consumables expand back into their normal size and weight. Items inside the bundle cannot be used without opening it. If you do not have the necessary bag space to hold all the consumables bursting forth from your magical breadbox, you'd simply get an error message stating that you have insufficient bag space to complete the action. Compressed consumables could take up 50% less space or something close to that number.

     

    Terrible? Awesome?

    Edit: The intended use for this would be just making it easier to carry a large number of consumables for longer sessions. The bundles could also be stored in your bank and are tradeable, so you could create a ton of consumables for a raid, or other guild event, and then easily hand them out to a bunch of people at the appropriate time.


    This post was edited by Tabian at February 25, 2020 1:09 PM PST
    • 1785 posts
    February 25, 2020 1:11 PM PST

    I'm really confused as to what problem we're trying to solve for in this discussion.

    Is it just being able to organize our inventory?

    Is it a lack of space for more items?

    Is it the impact of encumbrance and item weight?

    • 1273 posts
    February 25, 2020 3:58 PM PST

    Nephele said:

    I'm really confused as to what problem we're trying to solve for in this discussion.

    Is it just being able to organize our inventory?

    Is it a lack of space for more items?

    Is it the impact of encumbrance and item weight?

     

    The only thing I'm starting to understand is the issue of having so many unique items available to crafters and where they can store them.  Other than that issue I totally agree with having a limitted inventory space and a fairly realistic carrying capacity.

    • 39 posts
    February 25, 2020 4:05 PM PST

    It REALLY depends on mow much stuff you "need" to store in a game.

    In EverQuest I had a rogue and needed to store 50,000 poison components, stuff to make flasks to hold the poison, and on the side the stuff to make arrows I used when pulling. In other words LOTS of stuff.

    So due to the games design large amounts of storage was required.

    In another game, like say "Bloodlines", you didn't really need to have more then a dozen items, so you didn't need much storage.

    It's up to the devs to determine how much storage is required.

    AND

    Make that amount of storage available.


    This post was edited by Sakkara at February 25, 2020 4:08 PM PST
    • 70 posts
    February 26, 2020 12:59 AM PST

    Bags in Bags in Bags.

    No!

    The less bag clicking the better. 

    • 46 posts
    February 26, 2020 1:47 AM PST

    I'll get behind the notion "the less bag clicking the better" so please, no bags in bags, rather have more space up front or bigger bags.

    • 557 posts
    February 26, 2020 5:36 AM PST

    Perhaps it's just nomenclature, but I've always thought the idea of a single adventurer carrying 8 backpacks was a bit silly.

    How about one backpack which represents your total inventory load.  That backpack could be upgradable with additional slots and weight-reducing properties as you advance through the game.

    Inisde the backpack you have multiple sacks which are primarily for organizing your gear/loot.    Make some of the sacks many tiny slots to accommodate the crafting community.  Make some of the sacks larger for carrying armour, weapons and the like.  As you progress, you may find recipes for better sacks, magical sacks with WR properties, bag of holding style aspects...

    Clearly there needs to be some sort of cap on the amount of gear you can carry (number of items and mass).

    If not multiple sacks, then we'll need some sort of quick search method for locating that one unique item in your backpack of unorganized junk.

    I would like to see the ability to put an empty backpack or sack in any single item inventory slot so we can easily craft, trade or hand off these items to others as we upgrade.

    • 1315 posts
    February 26, 2020 6:37 AM PST

    @Celandor

    Your suggestion is one I was considering as well. Basically the bag is designed for a specific size of item and has correspondingly higher number of slots the small the item it is designed for.

    I am also a fan of the idea of having a “backpack” item slot/slots that can then be modified to change your available inventory space. I am a bigger fan of X weight negation rather than % weight reduction which lends itself better to a configurable back pack. Say the base backpack from a starter vendor has 2 modification slots. It starts with 8 large slots and no weight reduction. You can put either slot enhancements or weight negation into those modification slots.

    Higher tier backpacks will have larger base volumes and item size as well as more modification slots. Modification slots could go from low amounts of weight negation and a few extra small slots to large amounts of weight negation and item capacity at higher tiers.

    The inventory window from the streams could just have a scroll bar added to the side and some sort functions. All the items would effectively be in the same bag but with tools to find things easier. The backpack would have X number of each slot size and would automatically fill the smallest slot size it can.

    My big thing here though is once we get to the scrolling unified bag we might as well convert from slots to some unit volume where tiny items are worth 1 (most tiny items are actually a few grams vs giant items are likely 10s of kilograms) and giant items are worth something much higher. Then the whole slot count issue goes away for something simpler.

     

    • 2138 posts
    February 26, 2020 7:03 AM PST

    hahaha!

    I made a similar post of a impossible suppoter request or unique irem Sunshu maybe 5 -6 years ago based on the same thing, you described it pretty well , I called it Manouks fancy bag the concept was a 12 slot bag of giant items, in each slot could hold a 10 slot bag opf large items, and in those a 8 slot bag of medium, and in there, 6 slot bag of small and in there, 2 slot bag of tiny, you get the idea- heh I know you do. In my description to open all the bags at once would be- as you mentioned- stressfull to say the least.

     

    And Calendor, yes, I suggested something similar along the lines of a rucksack or rucksak mountain climbing technology as an example. Where the backpack is one thing, but the additon of a frame makes a huge difference in carrying capacity. Its not immersion breaking and perhaps something questable, but also adds some hanging space like for a bedroll or canteens that are outside the bag, but carryable- thereby freeing up space inside the bag. Additionally smaller containers like neck pouches for gems or dusts or precious TS items. I think I referenced that neolithic guy they found in the italian alps- Otzi the Iceman is the name they gave him like 20 years ago or some place, perfectly preserved and he had a pouch with mushrooms with medicinal properties and other properties, among other things and the anthropologists were extatic. He was travelling between villages or something.

     this was under the general heading of limited bag space. Not bags in bags. So inventory management would be a big thing and perhaps terminus may not be flooded with sucha  plethora of things? or if so, with local banks and auction houses, only certain items will be available in certain areas and those making the "silk road journey" to being Bat fur to distant lands will be compensated not by players, but ny NPC merchants, for players will keep the TS stuff for themselves, right? and want to adventure for those TS items themselves, right? and f they have extra, maybe pass them off to another who need a boost or just one or two more.

    I don't know, but it does bridge out to a larger discussion.

    Personally, im for limited bag space, and no full bags within bags. Specialized bags, perhaps. Or as someone suggested overall inventory manageemnt based on space. But I dont look forward to the coincidental "inventory management mini game"

    • 520 posts
    February 26, 2020 7:14 AM PST

    I'd rather prefer gradually upgrading a size of our bag than stacking bags one into another (at least not bags containing something) - the max limit of available items would be most likely the same anyway, but iventory management won't be as messy ...

     

    PS: As far as I remember there already was a topic about it on this forum.