I still remember when Everquest 2 rolled out their "Store", gave everyone 400 points or something, and promised no advantages. At the time my favorite house item to work towards, what were those... faction points with the city vendors, were the artwork.
Then they stopped producing new artworks at the city faction vendor and alot of new artwork, maybe some were still craftable ... I don't know, ended up on the Store and that card game they had.
Why not create a one time non-repetable "Dontation" method in parallel to the subscription. Something you click to donate $1 or $3 to help fund the company. If by law you have to provide a product gift/award a forum emote every $10 mark. You get the idea.
That's a hard no.
I think you could have a merchant that sells cosmetic things that you could buy with in-game currency but not real world cash shops even for cosmetics.
In other words, add more cosmetic options to a merchant so players cna personalize their character but they have to earn it in game, not buy it out of the game world.
First, I want to say I vote NO.
Second, I think that Visionary realms should come out and be honest about their financing in light of this question being asked. You state very clearly on your site and in past videos/events that your game would not have a cash shop of any kind. Questions like this coming from individuals building the game raise the question of how much financial support do you really have and intend on seeking in a professional sense instead of seeking out cheap parlor tricks by selling fake items. I figured this would happen at some point, I still remember selling SOJs and Shako's to people in Diablo 2 and thought it was great. Now I see what selling online stuff (even if it isn't a pay 2 win system) does to a game. Look how well the cash shop is working for Shroud of the Avatar.... They cannot even get out Episode 2 which they promised years ago.
vjek said:EppE said: ... All in all I'd be fine with no item shop in Pantheon, but FF14 has shown that it can work without impacting the game.Hm. https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/31/15721490/final-fantasy-14-stormblood-xiv-level-boost-scenario-skip-cost-price-naoki-yoshida-interview .
Seems like that's pay2win, by any definition. I would say, if that's the alternative? I'd go with no cash shop and/or no item shop, instead.
Comparing this to Pay2Win shows that you don't understand FF14. Every MMO isn't the same. Each expansion in FF14 is built upon each other and the price was intentionally set to discourage everyone from doing it. To add upon that these place you at the START of the current expansion. Understanding the carrot of each MMO, because they all aren't the same, is important to understanding how features affect them.
I´m sorry, but no
We all know how much revenew cosmetic cash shops bring, but if we are already paying a subscription it feels like cheating.
Visual personalization is a huge gamechanger in MMO-like games, where you have to coexist with other people. Your armor and weapon skills should be a reflection of who you are as a player, what have you achived.
What is the point of getting an epic reward from a raid boss or dungeon, or even exploring a secret catacomb, if someone can get a better looking cape just paying more money?
But maybe I am being hypocrite, because I want this to support this game as much as I can, and if a cosmetic shop appears, i will probably end up buy a couple of cool loking items.
Exp boosters and those are a no no....
Seriously people, Kilsin throws out a community debate thread about a cosmetics shop and you assume it means there's a funding crisis?
Why, when he started the "Community Debate - Game Sound, how important is it to you?" thread did you not assume VR were planning not to include audio?...
disposalist said:Seriously people, Kilsin throws out a community debate thread about a cosmetics shop and you assume it means there's a funding crisis?
Why, when he started the "Community Debate - Game Sound, how important is it to you?" thread did you not assume VR were planning not to include audio?...
I don’t think most people are assuming VR is in a funding crisis, nor is that what I believe asking the question means. I do however think that asking this question has been asked of the community a few times in different ways. Almost as if VR is always trying to take the temperature of the community with respect to its tolerance for cash shops as a form of monetization. It’s encouraging to see the community come out so strongly against this, as it has been from the start, and hold VR accountable.
I think a lot of other good ideas have been raised in this thread that should be considered, if needed. Higher sub fees, parallel donations, RL merch stores, etc. VR needs to think outside the box when it comes this. If the “Pantheon Difference”, #communitymatters, #WorldsNotGames, and all these other lines that have been espoused are real, then it would be a huge shame to see any form of cash shop.
Therek said:disposalist said:Seriously people, Kilsin throws out a community debate thread about a cosmetics shop and you assume it means there's a funding crisis?
Why, when he started the "Community Debate - Game Sound, how important is it to you?" thread did you not assume VR were planning not to include audio?...
I don’t think most people are assuming VR is in a funding crisis, nor is that what I believe asking the question means. I do however think that asking this question has been asked of the community a few times in different ways. Almost as if VR is always trying to take the temperature of the community with respect to its tolerance for cash shops as a form of monetization. It’s encouraging to see the community come out so strongly against this, as it has been from the start, and hold VR accountable.
I think a lot of other good ideas have been raised in this thread that should be considered, if needed. Higher sub fees, parallel donations, RL merch stores, etc. VR needs to think outside the box when it comes this. If the “Pantheon Difference”, #communitymatters, #WorldsNotGames, and all these other lines that have been espoused are real, then it would be a huge shame to see any form of cash shop.
Absolutely agree with all that.
Sure, most, thankfully, aren't jumping straight to negative assumptions and though it may well look like VR is "trying to take the temperature of the community", most understand that doesn't mean VR are looking to implement any of the ideas they ask for debate upon. They could just as easily be wanting to put the issue to bed for good by prompting what they are sure will be support for the opposing view.
*shrug* I guess I'm just being overly defensive and argumentative, so I'll apologise for that, but it's because I'm getting fed up seeing speculative negativity. It can only hurt the game. I'm not saying we should all be brainless fanbois, but it would be nice to discuss pros and cons in a constructive way and not just assume the worst.
I suppose what I am doing - complaining about complaining - isn't really helping either... I'll try and rein it in!...
Imagine you meet someone wearing something cool, you ask them where it dropped so you can go hunt for it yourself, then it turns out they bought it in the cash shop.
Nah, micro transactions suck the soul out of the game, even if they're "just cosmetics". Besides, we all know it never stops at just cosmetics.
EppE said:vjek said:EppE said: ... All in all I'd be fine with no item shop in Pantheon, but FF14 has shown that it can work without impacting the game.Hm. https://www.polygon.com/2017/5/31/15721490/final-fantasy-14-stormblood-xiv-level-boost-scenario-skip-cost-price-naoki-yoshida-interview .
Seems like that's pay2win, by any definition. I would say, if that's the alternative? I'd go with no cash shop and/or no item shop, instead.
Comparing this to Pay2Win shows that you don't understand FF14. Every MMO isn't the same. Each expansion in FF14 is built upon each other and the price was intentionally set to discourage everyone from doing it. To add upon that these place you at the START of the current expansion. Understanding the carrot of each MMO, because they all aren't the same, is important to understanding how features affect them.
And the cash shop exploded since it's first iteration in ARR, resulting in less and less interesting cosmetics items ingame or volontary capped in colors/classes to ensure the cash shop is used without hesitation.
A game with subs shouldn't need or aim for alternate revenues as it's double dipping and splitting the developpers attention between instant money or long term subs, and the pleasure of players between farming something or opening their wallet for instant gratification and a lack of goals.
Absolutely if the items were purely cosmetic and justifiable through some means of roleplay or outside of game functionalities like extra char slots.
Things I would support would be:
-Hair style/color changes (maybe skin/muscle tones if available)
-Extra character slots
-Gender change (at a hefty price)
-Server xfer
Things I would like to see capable with in game currency:
-Bank slot increases (maybe purchase of safety deposit boxes)
-Shareable blank slot (safety deposit box)
-Reforging of similar material items (transmog within reason - an Ogre and an Elf likely wouldn't use the same armor without making modifications).
Darch said:Absolutely if the items were purely cosmetic and justifiable through some means of roleplay or outside of game functionalities like extra char slots.
Things I would support would be:
-Hair style/color changes (maybe skin/muscle tones if available)
-Extra character slots
-Gender change (at a hefty price)
-Server xferThings I would like to see capable with in game currency:
-Bank slot increases (maybe purchase of safety deposit boxes)
-Shareable blank slot (safety deposit box)
-Reforging of similar material items (transmog within reason - an Ogre and an Elf likely wouldn't use the same armor without making modifications).
I would like to amend my position. I would be ok with services as someone else had mentioned earlier too. {Extra character slots, gender change, name change, server transfer, race change, etc}