Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Would You Rather - Wait in line to camp a named

    • 9115 posts
    January 30, 2020 3:07 AM PST

    Would You Rather - Wait in line to camp a named for a chance at a drop you need or grind out the cash and buy it from another player? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 768 posts
    January 30, 2020 4:08 AM PST

    I'd rather explore the world to try and encounter the named I need. If that includes a named so be it. 

    Wait in line...? That is less likely, I'll just come back at some other time. 

    If there is a line for a certain mob, something has gone amiss. Either have more mobs in the world with similar loottable and have the mobkill requirement less strict.

    Or don't have the mob turn up for players that do not have the same background as mine so that when I go out to explore and search for that mob/drop, I might need to camp but not stand in line.

    Grinding out the cash, just occurs when I'm getting bored with the game. 

    • 3237 posts
    January 30, 2020 5:23 AM PST

    Open-world competition changes the dynamic to be far more interesting, in my opinion.  Do I contest a specific camp that I need or continue on with my adventure and look for another area to spend my time in?  Content shouldn't be broken down into "pockets" that serve as a concession stand.  Content is not merchandise in a grocery cart or a ride at the amusement park.  If Pantheon is to have fun/healthy competition, players won't be standing around in lines waiting to get their ticket stamped.  The very idea of that happening sounds like a great source of inspiration for an Epic-NPC-Man video.

    • 103 posts
    January 30, 2020 5:39 AM PST
    I'm open to both but I'm a camper I have camped mobs for hours on end for needed gear.
    • 1247 posts
    January 30, 2020 6:09 AM PST

    Laneir said: I'm open to both but I'm a camper I have camped mobs for hours on end for needed gear.

    Yep, I 100% agree. I am a camper and I look forward to camping being a thing again in Pantheon. 

    #communitymatters #makenightmatteragain #factionsmatter #riskvsreward #deathpenalty #HardRaiding #respectyourguild #HellLevels #gamesnotworlds #aradune 

    • 1315 posts
    January 30, 2020 6:14 AM PST

    If I was left with the choice of waiting in line to begin camping a spawn, or go farm cash in order to pay someone who has greed camped a named for a required piece of gear then Ill choose the third option.  Log off.

    #mytimematters #waitingisnotplaying

    • 1273 posts
    January 30, 2020 6:51 AM PST

    That is a tough question.  I camped a named in EQ for 45 hours straight once and I kinda vowed to never do that again.  But what exactly did I vow?  Not to camp a mob for 45 hours, 10 hours?  5 hours?  There is a reasonable amount of time I'd be willing to spend waiting in line but there are too many factors these days.  My family does have to come first...if I ever let myself camp a mob to the point where I'm ignoring my family I'd have to force myself to quit playing probably.

     

    • 438 posts
    January 30, 2020 7:45 AM PST
    Wait and camp if I have the time to do so. If not continue leveling and killing. If I end up with the money then I’ll buy it.
    • 2138 posts
    January 30, 2020 7:55 AM PST

    I recognize the hidden agenda, so let me into the inner sanctum. If that means hiring me, so be it, I can work remotely. Ill be something creative with questing, that is sure to be intuitive, long and fun, the only caveat is the coders and I become friends so that they are receptive to my ideas and I to theirs and we have fun making things up and VR has the money to keep us fat and happy, and we have interaction with other smart and clever people to come up with witty and clever NPC lines and dialogues who so happen to know hollywood people or professionals who then become so captivated they do cameo's in secret, pro bono...and have accounts where people always say- "hey, you know you sound alot like (movie star), haha" in discord whenever they are raiding or playing...

    Have you stopped cheating at cards?

    ah HA! see? same kind of question. I know what you're up to! ferreting out the evil amongst us *sniffs the air*

    The good will not be bothered by this, for the good will come and adventure, knowing that the mobs and spawns and loot tables roam and are potentially random. They will get the item and.... leave, or go elsewhere. If they don't get the thing they will not be discouraged for they have adventured with friends and after all #communitymatters doesn't it.... DOESN'T IT *peers around for whom it does NOT, that they may be identified, and righteously ostracized* 

    What's the sense in buying it from another player, especially if it is coveted?. The point is to adventure to get it, the good understand this. Those that do not, can be said to be.... not good. Players need bag space, they sell to merchants. You can buy weapons from merchants or maybe pick up the random dropped item on the ground that might be a slight upgrade from where people have been- provided it is not no drop muahahahaha.

    From the other perspective, why waste the time to get two just so you can keep one and sell the other, I need you for a group to progress onward, we were friends now you have to stop? we are headed this way!- fine, whatever, you do not understand loot will always be there, but good players or friends may not?- bye *sigh* after all, its only pixels. The emperor has no clothes, the good know what this reference is, having been brought up right.

     

    I would not wait in line, for there will be no line to wait in, because iirc, the item may drop randomly off of any named in a certain area, and the named may spawn in an area in a certain region, not in a specific area, like Fion in Blackrose keep who could spawn in the kitchen, or upstairs iirc and does roam a bit. So if anyone is "camping" a static area  in blackrose keep they will not always get Fion. 

     

    • 2419 posts
    January 30, 2020 8:02 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Would You Rather - Wait in line to camp a named for a chance at a drop you need or grind out the cash and buy it from another player? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    It depends upon which I believe I can obtain faster, the item through camping the mob that drops it or grinding the cash to buy it.  Reastically speaking though my approach is always to do both.  If the camp is available, camp it for as long as I have time available or the group stays together then work on earning cash.  Then which ever route reaches the goal first wins.

    • 144 posts
    January 30, 2020 8:14 AM PST

    There's nothing I hate more in my (first world problems) life than waiting in line. A grocery store, the bank, a theme park, etc. 

     

    I damn sure dont want to wait in line for a game. 

    • 1247 posts
    January 30, 2020 8:30 AM PST

    Trasak said:

    If I was left with the choice of waiting in line to begin camping a spawn, or go farm cash in order to pay someone who has greed camped a named for a required piece of gear then Ill choose the third option.  Log off.

    #mytimematters #waitingisnotplaying

    So I understand correctly, are you implying that you don’t want to camp or farm money for a mob/rare item? You just want that mob/rare item given to you or you want to be able to get that rare kill for item whenever you want to? It is a rare afterall, right? I suppose I don’t understand what you mean. Thanks for clarifying. 

    #waitingmattersinaworldnotagame #worldsnotgames 


    This post was edited by Syrif at January 30, 2020 8:41 AM PST
    • 1315 posts
    January 30, 2020 8:52 AM PST

    Nope, what I am saying is that if there is an item that is so valuable that people will wait in line for hours to even begin to camp said object then I will not engage in that content.  I want to work for my rewards, not wait for them.

    If the game ends up designed around collecting rare items that are from rare spawns that all have camp lines that far outclass anything from crafting, or dedicated work hunting more common mobs then I’ll play another game.  Sitting in one spot, pulling respawns is the dullest and least engaging way to play an MMO.  If I’m going to play for 2 hours I want to be doing something challenging with a high chance of failure rather that a guarantied chance of boredom.

    #WaitingisfortheBMVnotEntertainment #Afewdozenhandcraftedstaticzonesisathemeparkgamenotaworld


    This post was edited by Trasak at January 30, 2020 8:53 AM PST
    • 1247 posts
    January 30, 2020 8:58 AM PST

    @Trasak Ah, well there more than likely will be epic quests and plenty of work for ya. ;) Epic quests may require crafting, foraging, rare mobs, rare drops, languages, faction work & more! Some items or mobs will be have to be rare though, otherwise it’s not rare. 


    This post was edited by Syrif at January 30, 2020 9:23 AM PST
    • 1428 posts
    January 30, 2020 9:09 AM PST

    lol that'll never happen on a pvp server.  if anything, an all out war could start up over a grind spot.  how beautiful and glorious!  to the victor goes the spoils!

    • 793 posts
    January 30, 2020 9:13 AM PST

    This is where the concept that items are more zone specific than mob specific would come in handy.

    You can camp The High Orc Priestess For the Staff of Foul Odors for a .01% chance of the staff, or you can camp The Orc General also for a .01% chance of the staff, or you can kill misc mobs (level apprpriate for the item in question) for a .001% chance.

    % are strictly for demonstration purposes.

     

    But to answer the question, I would do which ever I was feeling more inclined to do. Although I typically do not do the "Wait list" thing just to GET the camp, I'll find something else to do.

     

    • 520 posts
    January 30, 2020 9:16 AM PST

    Depends on how long is the line (time to wait) - I would love to "pass the challange" of defeating  monster guarding the treasure, but honestly if I'd have to camp for more than 2h to get something (I was waiting much longer when I was younger and had a time for it, but that ship have sailed) then I'd rather try hunting for a window of opportunity when there are not many people around and if that doesn't work I'd probably buy that thing from other player. Dont get me wrong - camping can be fun, but usually when you are just killing regular mobs for exp/money gain - camping for rare is not.

    • 1247 posts
    January 30, 2020 9:19 AM PST

    stellarmind said:

    lol that'll never happen on a pvp server.  if anything, an all out war could start up over a grind spot.  how beautiful and glorious!  to the victor goes the spoils!

    Actually, you‘d be surprised how creative people and/or teams were on pvp servers back in the day. I can only speak for old EQ and DAOC though. Pvpers who didn‘t play back then missed out on true pvp. Was tons of fun.. if pvp is your thing. :) 


    This post was edited by Syrif at January 30, 2020 9:21 AM PST
    • 21 posts
    January 30, 2020 9:53 AM PST

    This is one of those design challenges that I don't think I would be able to solve. I really hope that groups have the opportunity to randomly run into rare mobs incidentally, although I know RNG can be frustrating to other people. I want rare items that mean a lot to the wielders and strong gear identity as much as everyone; however, I'm very wary of the toxicity that comes along with camping. I'm specifically referring to toxicity in terms of botting, or even incentivizing unhealthy behaviors (in my opinion) like camping for 48 hours plus.

    Just looking at the Classic WoW launch, people were equipped with macros to target and instant tag certain quest mobs with the roll of a mousewheel. Physical lines were formed around kill/loot quest NPCs, or escort mobs. Similarly, rare patterns (runecloth bag/gloves) only available from certain vendors with random spawn times were camped essentially from day 1 while the botters profited. It's one of those design considerations that I feel I don't have an answer to. Maybe the toxicity came from the entire game knowledge being available on release. I hope the designers find a way to create an immersive world with reasonable server size containing cool rares and items, sometimes accessible to random passers-by, sometimes rewarding those who wait, or spawn/drop rates such that the item's value is grindable in some other way. 

    • 3237 posts
    January 30, 2020 10:07 AM PST

    Nesy said:

     

    Just looking at the Classic WoW launch, people were equipped with macros to target and instant tag certain quest mobs with the roll of a mousewheel. 

    There are a few things that come to mind.  Content needs to be tuned as a "challenge" for a full, balanced group.  There should be a decent amount of unpredictability with how/when/where encounters spawn.  This can be achieved through the disposition/manifestation feature, the archetypes that NPC's (and their minions might spawn as) and even what items/buffs/auras that an NPC might spawn with.  If players are spamming a macro in order to tag a boss as soon as it spawns then I would argue that the "meaningful preparation phase" that has been touted as important for Pantheon is not being realized.  Players need to evaluate what they see and come up with a strategy that can help them take advantage of their observations.

    Beyond that, it's also incredibly important to have a meaningful death penalty.  When you combine everything from above with a meaningful death penalty, players wouldn't be mindlessly spamming macros just to win a tag.  If you engage something that you aren't properly prepared for then you should probably die.  If dying actually carries weight and players stand to lose something valuable then they are far less likely to engage in the behavior you mention.  WoW had a bunch of open-world quest mobs that were designed for solo play or even small groups.  The content wasn't challenging and the death penalty was almost non-existent.  It was a perfect recipe for a disastrous open-world experience full of theme park lines and linear game-on-rails play.

    • 557 posts
    January 30, 2020 10:10 AM PST

    If those are the only choices, then I think Pantheon has failed to seize on an opportunity to be more than an EQ remake.

    "Stand at loc(x,y) and kill everything that spawns until item N drops."   

    Doesn't sound like much of an adventure.   It sounds like some classic EQ spawns.   Many of the "list" style camps are for solo players.   It's hard to coordinate a group of people to be online for hours in a queue of some sort.  If the queue isn't many hours long, then the respawn likely isn't that long nor is the item all that rare.

    Let's look at some of those old EQ spawns.

    1.  Hadden and his fishbone earring.   Static spawn every 6 hours.  No PH.  Either has the earring or not.  Nothing much to do in zone between spawns.  The very definition of an AFK camp.   Respawn timer is so long, it really defies maintaining any sort of list.

    2.  Ancient Cyclops and his jboot ring - OoT.  Static spawn every 6 minutes, with extreme probability of a PH.  Drops ring every time.  Kill the PH ad nauseum until AC finally pops.   Lists work here, but invariably most of the list has logged off by the time you pass the camp to the next person.  You can be in this camp for 6 minutes or 16 hours waiting for your AC to spawn.

    3.  Sarnak Courier and his invis ring - 30 second respawn with very high probability of PH and very low probability of ring drop.   Multiple spawn points but they've been well documented so five people can camp the ring simultaneously without interfering with each others camp.

    4.  Sarnak Legionaires and their invis bracer - Ring can drop from any legionaire in the fort.   Mostly high levels just roam the fort slaughtering legos (sometimes over several days) to get the very rare drop.

    5.  Quillmane and his lev cloak - relatively large area in which PH's spawn, QM itself has 3 different spawn points which are not terribly close to the area where the PHs need to be killed.   It can be soloed, especially classes who can pet track, but really encourages people to work together to handle the PHs and the spawn points effectively.

    I would more or less rank these in ascending order in terms of the "fun" factor.   

    I'm really hoping that Pantheon brings us more situations like Quillmane, but with added complexity to make determining the spawn points, PHs and their respawn timers more difficult.   The fewer "important" mobs that are static, the more fun it's going to be to chase down and kill to get drops.

     


    This post was edited by Celandor at January 30, 2020 10:17 AM PST
    • 1428 posts
    January 30, 2020 10:24 AM PST

    Syrif said:

    stellarmind said:

    lol that'll never happen on a pvp server.  if anything, an all out war could start up over a grind spot.  how beautiful and glorious!  to the victor goes the spoils!

    Actually, you‘d be surprised how creative people and/or teams were on pvp servers back in the day. I can only speak for old EQ and DAOC though. Pvpers who didn‘t play back then missed out on true pvp. Was tons of fun.. if pvp is your thing. :) 

    pvp is a playground for creativity huh?  sounds pretty romantic to me XD

    • 133 posts
    January 30, 2020 10:42 AM PST

    It honestly depends on how much time I have. If I have the time, I would wait for a camp, but not for more than an hour. I usually don't get that much free time these days what with work and taking care of a family, so I sadly can't be waiting for long bouts of time. If I had the money on hand and didn't have to grind too much for it, I would buy it from someone, so long as I had enough money left over from it afterwards. I can always grind a bit, but again I don't want to be wasting my time too much on that. I could always adventure somewhere else, but if that mob is the only mob that drop s what I need it to drop, chances are I'm not going to really find much else to do. You can only kill so many things and do so many other things while waiting for said mob. If there is nothing else for me to do on the game, I'm going to log off, because I'm not wasting my time on waiting, nor would I waste my sub on waiting either.

    I hope that there won't be long wait times for things like this, because if I'm being honest they would get one month of sub out of me and then that would be it. I, and many others, don't have time to be waiting and grinding for things. If another mob has a chance to drop it, then I can guarantee you that the other mob will have just as long of a wait time for it. Even if the mob moves around or spawns in different locations, chances are there will be people camping out those other locations as well. Honestly the only way this gets solved is if said mob is in a dungeon and that dungeon is instanced. EQ came out at a time when it was the very first of its kind and people had way more free time to play it (younger people anyways). Now it's a competitive market with people wanting the most for their money and their lessened free time. I hope that Pantheon realizes this and changes the game enough to accommodate, but doesn't lose the vision and dream they are chasing right now.

    In short, I'm not waiting for a camp for any longer than an hour, I'll grind if I need to but I'm not wasting my time. I would more than likely kill other things and do other things in the area, but even they are limited and can only go for so long; and if all of that fails, I'm logging off, simple.

    • 8 posts
    January 30, 2020 12:00 PM PST

    Camp grind for the item while getting xp and gold if the rare does not drop so everyone in the group still can get something out of the effort.


    This post was edited by bountycode at January 30, 2020 12:01 PM PST
    • 752 posts
    January 30, 2020 1:29 PM PST

    I prefer lists. Group lists and loot lists. I prefer to have fun killing the boss than grinding it out and buying it.