Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Website / Forums / Instagram - Abandoned?

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    • 469 posts
    January 23, 2020 11:07 PM PST

    Just getting facts out first:

    1) The website hasn't been updated in the news section since October (there was the producer's letter that's not in the news section), and the FAQ/Class Pages/Race Pages have also had zero updates in months/years.

    2) This forum lacks of real developer interaction (it is extremely super rare when it does happen), which is odd for a Pay-to-Post forum, in my opinion.

    3) Pantheon's Instagram has had just a few in-game screenshots posted since August of 2019 (most posts are just stream or a PAX info). Maybe delete Instagram?

    Are we just waiting around for the new website/forums that were said to be out no later than the end of 2019? Not trying to flame or hate on anything or anyone in particular, just curious about where the direction is headed with these platforms. Obviously, "we are focused on game development right now", is the go-to response but as we all are awaiting our chance to play PA5/Alpha/Beta/Launch, it would be greatly appreciated if we knew, at least in my opinion, what the heck is the deal with an online game (and community) having an absolute mess of an online presence.

    For example - If I was an investor that heard about this project and then went to the website... I would assume that the project died around November. No news updates (in months), old FAQ's, very seldom screenshots, no dev interaction, an antiquated forum system, etc - the list could go on.

    Yes I understand that you need to go to YouTube/Twitch to see the game isn't dead, but at first definitely is a bad look. Anyway, these are not only my thoughts but also ones shared across several other people that I talk to in the Pantheon community. I am prepared to be flamed, but I care about this project and this game vehemently.

    • 10 posts
    January 23, 2020 11:47 PM PST

    I wholeheartedly agree. I would love to see the website brought up to speed with all the latest info and improvements that have been made to the project. As the OP said, it is sorely lacking. Pledged 350 dollars so far, would love some of that money to help the main site to not look like AOL Instant Messenger.

    This post was edited by Mortechai at January 23, 2020 11:48 PM PST
    • 923 posts
    January 24, 2020 6:33 AM PST

    Considering how consistent they were until now, I am not going to assume the worst scenario. I suspect they are working on the new website and forums which will probably launch along with PF, along with a new media/advertising campaign.

    • 234 posts
    January 24, 2020 7:27 AM PST

    Posting just to say I also agree.  I used to be a guild leader of a very active guild.  I'd update our web page often and it really only took probably less than an hour a week (total).  I'm not comparing leading a guild to building a game, I'm just saying that updating a web page with some fresh links, images, etc does not take time.  Even the lowest man on the totem pole can do that.  I'm sure even plenty of backers would volunteer to do it free.

    • 1294 posts
    January 24, 2020 7:32 AM PST

    Using history, this post will be deleted or moved to a forum where it will never been seen, because Kilsin / VR doesn't want criticism like this.
    When you control the narrative (it's their forums) you can delete anything you want for any reason, and that, historically, has been the response to this type of criticism.
    You're not going to get anything out of them, Fragile.  Crowd funded games owe nothing to anyone, and they know it. 
    There are many examples (Star Citizen, Shroud of the Avatar, Pathfinder Online, Legends of Aria, Saga of Lucimia, Reign of Darkness, Project Gorgon, more) where, without the milestone -> funding model to hold them to a schedule and design document, their development has no roadmap, no milestones, and glacial progress.  This was pointed out on Reddit / FoH a few times in the past year, but in about one month, it will be the 6th anniversary of the failure of the Kickstarter of Pantheon.

    EQ1 was developed in half that time, according to wikipedia.  With no tools (like Unity, or similar).  With no frameworks.  Everything that required coding for EQ1 had to be written from scratch.  Every model had to be created from scratch.  Every animation. Every tree, rock, world geometry, texture, sound, music, all of it.  VR showed off a beta product in 2016, yet, here we are in 2020 with no significant progress since then.  If content is the issue, they've had 6 years to produce the content. 

    If content isn't the issue, then.. what did they do for the past 6 years?  People will say "but, but, but" and supply many excuses as to the lack of progress.  They will be in this thread, if it's not deleted or locked within a few minutes.  They will defend the developers (who do not need defending, at all, in any way) and justify their own emotional and financial investment in a project that has currently gone on twice as long as the development of EQ1, and is still in PA4.  I have absolutely no sympathy for VR, because of the lack of transparency and the lack of communication, all of this is their own doing.  Debt servicing waits for no man, and they have known, since Feb 22, 2014, the exact moment that debt servicing would result in insolvency, given opex, capex, wages, budget, and donations.

    Nothing they've done or shown has been new, innovative, or particularly fantastic, when compared with the rest of the genre, other video games, or history.  Actions? Meet consequences, I'm sure you'll be very happy together.
    IMO, without a persistent paid early access model, debt servicing will kill this project before Beta, entirely due to not following the milestone -> funding model.  But as always, happy to be proven wrong. :)  And yes, the web site and in particular, the forums, are a continual embarassment that would have been upgraded/installed in a weekend by a junior employee, in any other company.

    • 1456 posts
    January 24, 2020 7:47 AM PST

    That seems like a fair assessment  vjek. 

    We are where we are.  I'm not sure what can be done short of hiring a "smedley"  or a taskmaster who is in charge of making sure deadlines are met?  It may be to far a long to come back from at this point.

    This post was edited by philo at January 24, 2020 7:50 AM PST
    • 52 posts
    January 24, 2020 7:51 AM PST
    End of the holiday season. Peeps take vacation around this time where I'm from. Slowest months , or months people are away, is always January and February..

    The fact is , the sun appears to go around the earth. Analysis of the facts is important too.
    • 666 posts
    January 24, 2020 8:07 AM PST

    Knowing that this thread probably has the life span of a fruit fly, my suggestion is to air concerns privately with the appropriate VR staff member(s).  In this case, probably Ben and Ben.

    Necroing the failed Kickstarter and making comparisons to Star Citizen does nothing to forward Pantheon's cause.  I'm not sure how you even begin to compare EQ and Verant, which was started with significant Sony money and 55 employees to Pantheon and it's small crowdfunded team.

    Presumably, everyone is here on the official forum because they are anxious to see Pantheon successfully launched.  If that's not your purpose, take it somewhere else or reasonably expect your comments to be censored.   

    Find a productive way to voice your concern in a manner which doesn't continue to fan the idea that the sky is falling.  You can come across as a disgruntled gamer in the forum or you can perhaps have a more personal contact with the team and appear as the concerned, mature supporter of the game which no doubt you all are.

    This post was edited by Celandor at January 24, 2020 8:08 AM PST
    • 164 posts
    January 24, 2020 8:30 AM PST

    Pantheon has series A investors, people that have invested money with an expectation of a return. I would assume they ask questions of the development team and provide impetus to keep the project moving along. As a "donator" of over $1000.00, that I can afford to lose, I too am disappointed with the pace, but this disappoinment stems from desire to play the game and the dearth of mmo's that would hold my attention. Promises of a new website are approaching 5 years now, I think maybe they should take a week off of game development, who would really notice at this point, and get it behind them.

    I pledged in Kickstarter, so I've experienced the ups and downs. I'm still a supporter of this game, although I've tempered my enthusiasm in an attempt to maintain my sanity. Posts are few and far between these days, and sadly I don't promote the game as much as I once did, as those that are on the sidelines waiting noticed the lengthy development timeline. Still I believe game will launch at some point and I'll be there on day one playing! I'd love some sort of timeline to kling to, even one that has to be updated/extended. Of course we'll be disappointed if goals are pushed back, but we are already disappointed and by far the large majority is respective of reasons given for delays.

    Getting rambly (I have aged almost 6 years since I first pledged - now 60 years of age, yikes, so much gaming...) so I'll stop here, after saying this -> thank you for everyones efforts at bringing this game to fruition, I couldn't do it...

    • 234 posts
    January 24, 2020 8:46 AM PST

    They have said several times that the game is funded until release.  They haven't exactly explained what that really means, but they have been clear about that.  If it's funded till release then it will release.  Not sure how else to interpret that.  The state of the game at release is obviously up in the air.  

    The main point here is that when you compare this to other crowdfunded mmo's that are currently in production this seems to be lacking in communication (upkeep of the website and forrum presence only!).  They have done a great job of updating us via live streams.  The only problem I see is that they're not updating their own website with links to these live streams and there is no presense on the forrums.  

    • 887 posts
    January 24, 2020 9:55 AM PST


    They are working and that is clear from the streams we've had VERY RECENTLY.  It should also be clear from the bi-weekly video blogs they are doing.


    • 234 posts
    January 24, 2020 9:57 AM PST

    Kittik said:


    They are working and that is clear from the streams we've had VERY RECENTLY.  It should also be clear from the bi-weekly video blogs they are doing.



    Lol, so poetic!

    • 197 posts
    January 24, 2020 11:02 AM PST

    100% agree with OP. While I have no doubt that VR is hard at work to get us to PA5 in the near future, not updating the forums, website, and other social media accounts is an unforced error. It creates the wrong impression, which not only makes us ardent supporters uneasy, but it is also a missed opportunity to bring in new supporters. I wholeheartedly want VR to succeed, and not having an up-to-date website eats at my confidence, as I would assume that is a very simple task.

    • 469 posts
    January 24, 2020 11:06 AM PST
    Kittik said:


    They are working and that is clear from the streams we've had VERY RECENTLY. It should also be clear from the bi-weekly video blogs they are doing.


    This is the problem, it seems VR also "IDGAF" about the same issues.
    @Vjek Masterful post, sir.
    • 37 posts
    January 24, 2020 11:12 AM PST

    I'm with you Fragile. I've brought it up in a few forums in the last month and I've seen your same concerns expressed everywhere. Someone at VR seriously needs to take an hour to update the "News" section of the website and link to all the cool content they showed in December! While they're at it, link to the youtube/twitch channel so people know where to find the bi-weekly developer streams. Hopefully the website gets a revamp as we approach Alpha, although from some of the dev responses there may not be much added to the website until closer to Beta.

    • 1889 posts
    January 24, 2020 11:30 AM PST

    randomrob82 said:

    It creates the wrong impression, which not only makes us ardent supporters uneasy, but it is also a missed opportunity to bring in new supporters. I wholeheartedly want VR to succeed, and not having an up-to-date website eats at my confidence, as I would assume that is a very simple task.

    To  me, this is the important take-away for the importance of having an updated website that gives potential future players as much pertinent and accurate information as possible. I've had several friends ask me about this game and in those conversations they always ask "where I can i find more information" and I always end up frustrated as how to best answer that question.  Time and time again they come back and express complete exasperation as to the quality and quantity of information.  Having hunt across any number of different resources to get a complete picture is, frankly, bad press. 

    There is no better cost per quality point return on an investment than having a well designed website filled with accurate information.  The fact that this site has languished in a forgotten corner, covered and dust does not give a good impression on both the game and the developers.

    FFS, get the site updated, get the FAQ updated, put more screenshots and media on their respective pages.  Fix the horrid pledge page and make a real concerted effort to keep this place the de facto central respository of all Pantheon related information.  It can only help you, VR.

    This post was edited by Vandraad at January 24, 2020 11:52 AM PST
    • Moderator
    • 8763 posts
    January 24, 2020 2:27 PM PST

    It is true that we have had a bad run of luck with our website/forum solution/web dev but that doesn't by any means show a  cause for concern or mean we don't listen! I read everything and have done so for the past 5 years of my employment, I pass on everything to the relevant developers who are kept up to date with all types of information, positive and negative.

    Combining a few months over Christmas/New Year with the loss of Brad and our push to hit internal goals and milestones means we are working harder than ever. We go through these periods of quietness while we work hard then typically surface with a progress update or something to show off, this time is no different so please continue to be patient while we work hard on building the game.

    The new forums are being worked on but we do not have a release date.

    I am going to close this down, there is no discussion to be had here, we will post more updates, media, pics when we have them to show off at the standard we expect and hold ourselves too and not before.