Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - What is the best way

    • 9115 posts
    January 16, 2020 3:38 AM PST

    Community Debate - What is the best way to find group members when in-game? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    • 145 posts
    January 16, 2020 3:45 AM PST

    anyway friggin possible use all the channels available to me  general chat guild chat /who talk them mo's up till i find me a group

    • 411 posts
    January 16, 2020 4:46 AM PST

    Checking a list of LFG players filtered by level and region. Extra points when you recognize a name or two on the list! I'm just really hoping that if that list comes up with a non-traditional class make-up, that it will be feasible.

    • 520 posts
    January 16, 2020 4:49 AM PST

    It is best if you play the game with your friends and family, so you don't need to search for a group.

    But THE BEST way TO FIND one is to be in the guild and asking on a guild chat.

    If someone is guildless or there is not enough people from a guild available to form a decent party, then a GOOD group searching tool is great and very helpful.

    Finding group members by searching in the zone or asking in general chat have it's flavour, but sometimes may be annoying - especially if you don't have a lot of time to play.

    • 22 posts
    January 16, 2020 5:02 AM PST

    Enter zone /shout!

    • 643 posts
    January 16, 2020 5:06 AM PST

    I agree with Hegenox.

     

    And about his last sentence: I think it is absolutely imperative that players feel like they aren't wasting time while LFG.    They need to be able to do something meaningful like slow solo experiencing or faction work or tradeskills or something.   Just sitting, bored shouting "LFG" over and over is a soul-crusher that will kill a game.

     

    So, while I think a good LFG method is important, I think no matter what method you employ, the surrounding situation is more important.

     

    Even if you have the best LFG tool or a great guild or wonderful shout channels, players need to not feel like they are wasting time while using those tools.

    • 557 posts
    January 16, 2020 5:07 AM PST

    I liked the old school /lfg flag that I could pop up whenever.  It allowed you to do simple things like

    /who all lfg cleric 15-20

    This lets you find exactly what your group is looking for.   The problem with that system is people get too lazy to type /lfg or the /who command, so you had silly things happening in-zone like "lfg check".  People stop using /lfg, then your ability to look for group members gets restricted to the zone you are in.

    Whatever system we implement, I hope it merely identifies potential group mates and doesn't automatically try to match them up.


    This post was edited by Celandor at January 16, 2020 5:12 AM PST
    • 96 posts
    January 16, 2020 7:31 AM PST

    I think a LFG tool, like the one used in EQOA, would work well. I'm not opposed to the "shout method" but it just seems to clog up chat channels unnecessarily. I think having a LFG tool and supplementing that with the players shouting in main cities would suffice. But forcing the player to feel obligated to shout constantly in order to get a group because there is no other way, would just make finding a group cumbersome. It would also not allow the player to work on solo things while waiting for a group since they'd have to be in a main city for it. Obviously, if global channels exists, they could use those, but then those channels would just be full of LFG messages and, in my opinion, not work as well as it should. 

    • 21 posts
    January 16, 2020 7:37 AM PST

    Agreeing with Celandor here. Back in FFXI the easiest way was to look for people flagged as LFG, and search by level and class with /search or /who for other games. A more functional way to do that would be welcome in Pantheon, and obviously the design team knows to not let it bleed into the LFG tools seen in modern MMOs.

     

    Edit: Also, if the system had a way for me to leave personal notes about players that might be a useful addition. Ideally we'd all be using the friends list for the people that we enjoyed playing with, but for the cases where I don't develop a long term relationship with someone I wouldn't mind a tool to make notes like good tank, good situational awareness, knowledgeable about dispositions, high level keeper skill, trigger happy DPS, has key/acclimation, etc. Come to think of it, given that certain content will only be accessible based on acclimation, class skills, and the perception system it might be cool to have a way to track that among certain players in an LFG tool. For example, I could flag that I'm LFG willing to DPS or CC, have up to level 4 frigid acclimation and have access to a few dungeon keys. Just an idea, I'm sure there are potential drawbacks here by excluding people who would otherwise get an invite without the proper critera/attunements. But it would also be a huge waste of time to get to an area of high windshear and realize the cleric won't be able to progress further with the group. 


    This post was edited by Nesy at January 16, 2020 8:15 AM PST
    • 2419 posts
    January 16, 2020 8:09 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - What is the best way to find group members when in-game? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

    That is a very oddly worded question because it can be interpreted in any number of different ways.

    You could mean physically locate them, as in where are they in the world (or in the zone).  Yet it could also have either an immediate or long-term meaning. The former being "I need a group right now" with the latter meaning "How do I build a list of people with whom I can commonly form groups".

    If you just want to see who is out in the world and where they are, the /who works great.  Like in EQ1 it told you where they were in the world. If you just used /who it gave you the list of everyone in your current zone.  Even something like /who all enchanter 50 60 let you see just where every enchanter levels 50-60 were in the world.  Quite helpful but didnt give you their specific location within a zone.

    For the immediate issue of 'I need a group right now", the /who all LFG 40 45 was a great tool.  Everyone who had their LFG tag on who was level 40-50 showed up.  By inserting class into that you really find out who was out there that could form a solid group.

    But I think it is the long term approach that is the one thing an in-game tool cannot help you with.  To build that list of friends it is up to you to be personable, reliable, a good player knowledgeable about their class, etc.  Building relationships cannot be done by an in-game tool.

    • 1428 posts
    January 16, 2020 10:00 AM PST

    how to lfg the pvp way:

     

    1.  check out who's in the zone

    2.  find the appropriate level and class you would like in your group

    3.  hunt said player down, pk(for quality control), then ask if they would like to join the party(if deemed decent in class)

              a.  yes- great

              b.  no-  look for another player on the list

              c.  undecided-  leave a guild recruitment message and have a nice day

     

    • 3852 posts
    January 16, 2020 11:36 AM PST

    Ideal will be a good lfg tool. As long as it doesn't actually form the group itslef or teleport people to the dungeon or quest or camping area'

    • 144 posts
    January 16, 2020 1:26 PM PST

    This is something that needs to be executed very well regardless of how you do it VR. Your entire game is centered around grouping, and if it takes me 30-45min to an hour everytime I want to group...I'm going to get frustrated easily. 

    The /who or /Shout is obviously going to be the old school way (and I like that style). It should definitely be left in game like that. 

    However, I would really like to see a very well done Looking for Group tool. A really in depth, thorough tool. 

    I would like to have the option to set some info about my toon (and others should do the same) where it indicates that I am a TANK, or DPS, CC, HEALER, etc. It would have my level as well. Thats probably enough but you could go the extra mile and list where my last location was (to indicate if I'm close or not), possibly what times I generally play etc. Absolutely nothing gear/skill related. If you add info regarding gear/skill then people will actually start blocking people from grouping/inviting them to group. 

    This tool would also have to have a solid LFG, but with built in parameters you could adjust to find what you're looking for to make it easier. If I'm only looking for any type of CC, I don't need to see a list of 50 people LFG. I just need to see the 10-15 CC classes. Then the ability to list them by level or nearest location would also be nice. As well as either an easy auto invite button or whisper button to make things easier. It also must be able to pull up LFG people outside of just the zone you are currently in as well. This is the biggest flaw of /SHOUT because it only stays in your zone. 

    • 560 posts
    January 16, 2020 2:16 PM PST

    First preference is friends or guild. Even if we can’t get a full group. (In Most games I actually like a less than full group. The challenge appeals to me)

    If I am going to have a random people join, I love it when it just happens naturally. For example, a small group of friends start going deeper into a dungeon and at some point, realize we are at our limit and it just happens another small group is there and we join forces. Love it when this happens.

    If I am looking for people to join my group or looking for a group to join, I prefer a group finding tool like EQ had. I also like the one in City of Heroes. I would hope for some improvements but an exact copy of EQ’s LFG tool would be a good start. I like the fact that you have to interact with the people that you want to invite.

    Group finding tool details for those that have not seen EQ’s or City of heroes.

    Things it does not do

    1. No auto grouping
    2. No teleporting

    Things it dose do

    1. Let you sort by class
    2. Lets you sort by level
    3. Define what you are interested in doing
    4. Give you a button to send privet message to see if person wants to join you.

     I dislike chat channel for group building so much I will normally play solo over grouping.


    This post was edited by Susurrus at January 16, 2020 2:18 PM PST
    • 1584 posts
    January 16, 2020 2:19 PM PST
    There's a ton of ways to find a group, most people don't use, or they only ask once and than complain that they can't find one, you can go to he zone you want to grp in and /shout, you could go to a populated area and ask in /general, you could do many things, you could set up taverns in outpost and have a system that applies for lfg there and have people be able to check the list and send messages/invites to those individuals, there are a ton of things that you could do, I think k the biggest question to ask is everyone going to actually use everything at their disposal to actually get a grp or are they going to give little effort and expect the same result everytime or get upset when they realize they have to try harder or be more patient to get the same results, I guess we will see.
    • 21 posts
    January 16, 2020 2:50 PM PST

    Hoiyay said: 


    This tool would also have to have a solid LFG, but with built in parameters you could adjust to find what you're looking for to make it easier. If I'm only looking for any type of CC, I don't need to see a list of 50 people LFG. I just need to see the 10-15 CC classes. Then the ability to list them by level or nearest location would also be nice. As well as either an easy auto invite button or whisper button to make things easier. It also must be able to pull up LFG people outside of just the zone you are currently in as well. This is the biggest flaw of /SHOUT because it only stays in your zone. 

     

    I'm with you right up until the auto-invite option. Not that it's inherently a bad idea, I would just want the devs to consider retaining the personal touch involved in reaching out and forming the group. On the receiving end, if I got a random invite with no explanation or an automated message that said a group was looking for a tank for Halnir Cave it would feel less personal. I'd rather the tool give all info needed that you mentioned like role preference and maybe certain attunement info that enabled the group leader to reach out manually to invite me. 

     

    starblight said:

    I dislike chat channel for group building so much I will normally play solo over grouping.

     

    I completely agree with you here. If there is an LFG chat channel, I'd want to have the UI set up so I can move it somewhere out of the way of my main chat/guild chat/combat log. 

    • 1785 posts
    January 16, 2020 4:34 PM PST

    In general, a robust LFG tool that is simple and easy to use is probably the best tool to give players.  A simple flag to turn LFG status on or off, and a way to enter a text comment about what you're looking for seems like plenty of functionality.  The rest is really just the UI used for viewing the information.

    I'm not a fan of seeing LFG spam in chat channels.  I get why people do it, and I've done it myself in situations where I've had to, but it's not my preference to shout at the top of my virtual lungs hoping someone will send me an offer to join their group.  Likewise, I don't really like having to do the whole "group lf2m healer and dps" every 5 minutes if I can avoid it.

    Some people mentioned family/friends and guilds.  While I agree these will be resources people use - after all, it's one of the primary reasons guilds came about in MMOs - I also worry, a lot, about what happens when we get a ton of pre-established guilds and friend/family groups in Terminus, and everyone outside of those groups is essentially a second-class citizen when it comes to grouping.  To be clear - this is a community problem, not a game one.  But so many players out there have been trained over years and years that their guilds and/or friends are the only people they can trust.  So many of them won't look outside of their guilds for groupmates unless they are forced to - and because the vast majority of games have made grouping really only an optional or an "endgame" thing, they haven't had to do that in those games.  They have quite literally forgotten how to trust and be social outside of their established cliques.

    Gamewise, I think Pantheon's on the right track.  But from a community standpoint I worry whether players will accept the idea of socializing with strangers, or whether they'll just become more insular, with guilds forming more closed communities that make things less friendly for people who don't come to the game with pre-existing connections.  I guess we can only really wait and see what happens.  Either way, like I said, it's not a problem the game can solve.  It's something the players will have to figure out how to handle.

    That's my ramble on the subject.

    • 220 posts
    January 16, 2020 6:24 PM PST

    i'll have to say FFXI search tool. I flag up and type a messeage "Mission 5-3 Boss Fight Please Invite me" and when those that are looking for the Boss fight they select my name and see the discription message then i get a /tell "party do you need it?

    To speed up the wait time i'll shout and do a search for flaged player while crafting.

    • 63 posts
    January 16, 2020 9:21 PM PST

    I like a LFG too, but I don't want it to automatically port me into the dungeon. Help me find players but leave travel as part of the game.

    • 627 posts
    January 17, 2020 2:07 AM PST
    Be nice when you grp with others, add and ask People to add you to their friendlist, this work well in my 20 yesrs of mmo :)
    • 2756 posts
    January 17, 2020 3:01 AM PST

    May not be a popular opinion with the hardcore old school players, but I always found the zone text spam method very painful and irritating.

    Pantheon will need to have a good LFG tool from day one.  Everquest had one, but it was so primitive and unfriendly that no one used it.  And, no, I don't believe people avoided it because spending hours travelling zone to zone spamming "20war LFG for BB or DWG" was in any way 'better' ;^)

    A good LFG tool will have it's own UI window (not just scroll a massive list of data in the text chat). It will use info players have entered about their personal preferences (the times they play, etc), but primarily will list those who have /lfg turned on, any description text a player might have entered ("looking for gear", "looking for xp", "want to raid BB", etc) and have the usual filters for class, type, level, etc.

    I guess you should also be able to join the list as a group leader LFM (looking for more) and have description text that people who are LFG can 'sign up' to, like "looking to get to boss of BRK. I have first dibs on hte gear".

    What would make this still 'old school' and not needless QoL though is: -

    No teleporting
    No auto-joining of groups
    No ticklists of bosses/items/etc that are, effectively, spoilers

    What it should do it just smooth the process (and avoid the spam) of putting LFG/LFM players in touch, but once the connection is made, the dialog and negotiations are up to the players. It might be able to automatically 'ping' you once a match comes up, but then it's up to you to send a /tell and communicate like a human to set things up. I mean, you should probably be able to click the list to send a tell, or even click the list to send an invite, but it shouldn't be automatic. Helpful, but not automatic.

    • 370 posts
    January 17, 2020 10:00 PM PST

    Introducing people to one another and facilitating communication should have little to no barrier of entry. Groups should be able to find people who are looking for a group. People who are looking for a group should be able to make it known. I don't think anyone on these forums is asking for portals from across the world and even "in zone" teleportation like CoH is hotely debated. Waiting for a group for long periods of time and not being able to participate in group content is going to be the largest hurdle this game is going to need to overcome for the larger market. There is no reason to not have a user friend UI that lets you filter by class, level, and preferred zone when looking for groups. 

     

    None of this stops people from using the exact same tool and messaging groups and asking to be put on a wait list.

     

    Adding a UI that shows

    /who all Ranger 20 25 lfg

    is not going to magically break the game.

     

    • 2138 posts
    January 18, 2020 12:15 AM PST

    If possible, based on goals.

    Who cares how you get people to join, wether it be yellling in zone, or mentioning in general global chat or using an LFG tool that everyone else may or may not look at every second of every day nor should they be expected to (so don't *****)

    And if no one shares your goals and does not respond, wether in guild, or in general global chat or yelling in zone, don't *****.

    If you hear someone yelling and dont answer but it s something you want ot do and instead sent tells that never get answered  instead of expressing your voice in general global chat, or in shouts or outloud or check the LFG tool; don't ***** if you can;t get anything done.

     

    If someone says hello, and they're polite enough to wait until you are done fighting or doing what you are doing- respond.

    If youa re afk, indicate so.

    If you are standing, staring at the sun and someone hails you and you dont respond because you are amazed at the sun- like turkeys will drown by stupidity for staring up with their mouths open at the rain in astonishment (this is true) don't *****, ever.

    INstead, based grouping on goals, and allow people to join even if it does not fit theor goals but are close. for instance, I need to go to Blackrose keep to finish a quest, it involves getting up to the ramparts, you however are interested in a nice camp grind. WE- will have to decide, from talking to each other if we want to combine both by making a slow dungeon crawl to the ramparts. you get your grind, I get my quest done. I understand it will not be as fast as I may have wanted, you understand it might not be as long as you wanted, but you and I and whomever else we can get to join are the only game in town right now so best to work with what we have and get on with it.

    • 768 posts
    January 18, 2020 3:49 AM PST

    I like the idea of having an npc telling you; Hey, you're a lvl X class Y. There seems to be a buzz going in dungeon 1 or at zone 2. They might have need for a character like yourself. 

    And if you're up for it, you're venturing to that direction and meet the players ingame. You team up with each other from there on.

    Another similar take would be an npc campfire or gatherstation/tent. Where the npc or the campfire/tent will display the level. Players can gather around those locations if they want to form up a group of such content. And as more and more people gather around, groups are formed and they head off. 

    When these become common knowledge, instead of shouting through channels (very immersionbreaking to me) they would venture out to the different gathering locations and just meet up with people. 

    The design could be as such that campfires of different locations but with the same level could have some shared intel. Meaning; the npc standing next to it, will tell you: in location X of this same level you are standing right now, are this list of players gathering right now, at location Y of this same level you have this list of players gathering, etc. This would allow the players to head out to a location, keep track of players of the same level, without shouting out. But if they wanted to, they can start a chat conversation with those players and travel to meet up with each other. This in case there aren't enough players in your current campingplace. 

    What this means for ingame experience, you'll see players camping around different locations, waiting for others to arrive. Players passing by will also see those locations and just see groups of players interacting with each other. This offers a way to spot new or next level campsites.

    I understand that a LFG tool is very common and known as a design, but it doesn't reall feed into an ingame experience, rather a console listing and teaming up system. To me, although it's very quick to form groups like this, it does not feel organic way to meet new people or friends.

    The way these campfires are introduced could be very gradually. At every level or near every challenging content, one could be 'guided' to travel to or pass such a location. And the npc could explain what he's doing there and what kind of information they are providing the player. With each tier, the players could expect to see more/new campfires at certain locations. They would become hotspots in the world outside the towns and some distance away from the dungeon entrances.

     
     
     

    This post was edited by Barin999 at January 18, 2020 4:03 AM PST
    • 510 posts
    January 19, 2020 11:12 AM PST

    True story:

    One middle-of-the-week night a long time ago I decided to work on my crafting...

     Me: 

      Some guy I have never even heard of:  Um, Hi!  Hope you dont mind but I did a /who all Illu and found you.

      Them:  What are you doing?

      Me: Leveling up my crafting.

      Them:  LOL!  You idiot!  Put that (*& down.  You're coming to Tov with us.

      Me:  Lol!  Okies.

     

    The point here is that we need to keep some of the old tried-and-true methods.  Let folks find us in this way as well as other methods.  Or if you definately do NOT want to cold-called like this, a simple command to opt-out would be nice.  Like /anon