Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

"Investment Syndicate"

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    • 65 posts
    January 11, 2020 12:04 PM PST

    I read the Producers's Letter in December's news section and it mentioned the investment syndicate. It was started by an Angel Investor for pooling smaller amounts of donations for the game. Does anyone have details about this entity? Are there investment levels or rewards? How does it compare with investing directly? 

    • 1273 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:11 PM PST

    I have not heard any more than you have, also wondered a little bit about it and why someone would choose to invest that way rather than just pledging.

     

    • 557 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:18 PM PST

    Heya Phil.

    The advantage of investing through a syndicate is that it allows you invest in a startup without you being an accredited investor.   There wouldn't be any in-game rewards, but you would have a financial investment which presumably will pay back dividends after the game is launched.  This is just like investing in a company that makes e-widgets.  If they make money, you make money.

    If you want in-game rewards, then what you're looking at is a pledge.  There are VIP level pledges in the amount of $1,000 / $3,000 / $10,000.    As a pledge, however you don't expect to see any money back.  You are gifting that money to the developers in exchange for recognition, early access, in-game perks, etc... 

    That help any?

     


    This post was edited by Celandor at January 11, 2020 1:25 PM PST
    • 379 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:19 PM PST

    Pledging gets you in-game items for a smaller donation. A larger donation in a syndicate generally grants a return on your money if the project is financially successful. That return could be shares or a direct payout (in most situations).

    Edit: Celandor beat me by 30 seconds lol.


    This post was edited by Fragile at January 11, 2020 1:22 PM PST
    • 1992 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:23 PM PST

    Ranarius said:

    I have not heard any more than you have, also wondered a little bit about it and why someone would choose to invest that way rather than just pledging.

    Despite the number of pledgers who call themselves "investors", the two are not remotely the same thing. The legal definition of pledges is "a charitable donation". Pledge rewards do not change that.

    Investors are people who buy stock in a company. They legally own a small percentage of the company and will have paperwork proving it. They can also sell their little piece of the company at a later time.

    Pledges are made to Pantheon the game. Investors own part of Visionary Realms, Inc.

    Typically -but not necessarily -investors get dividends (assuming the company makes a profit) and often get to attend annual meetings and/or vote on things like who gets on to the board of directors.

     

    • 557 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:37 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    The legal definition of pledges is "a charitable donation". 

    Not to cut too fine a line around this, but I think this is more of an OED definition.  The legal definition of pledge is something quite different, having to do with an item used for loan security or when you pawn something.

    Jothany nailed it though in that lots of folks who have pledged money to games think they have an investment.  I suppose this is true in so far that they have "invested" their time, passion and money in a project.  That doesn't by any loose definition qualify them as an "investor".


    This post was edited by Celandor at January 11, 2020 1:37 PM PST
    • 1992 posts
    January 11, 2020 1:49 PM PST

    Celandor said:

    Not to cut too fine a line around this, but I think this is more of an OED definition.  The legal definition of pledge is something quite different, having to do with an item used for loan security or when you pawn something.

    I had never heard 'pledge' used as a name for such items, despite having pawned a few things once or twice. I appreciate learning new meanings to words though, thanks for the clarification.

    I can also see that I wasn't being as clear as possible in my post. A better way to say it would have been "the legal definition of what we are doing when we pledge to Pantheon" is making a donation.

    • 2886 posts
    January 11, 2020 2:09 PM PST

    I think others have done a pretty good job of explaining that essentially, pledging means you are rewarded with in-game items. Investing means you are rewarded with actual money. I still think it's a good idea to think of a pledge as an investment rather than a purchase. But it is not a true "investment" in the same sense as an angel investment. Visionary Realms only accepts investments from accredited investors. To become one, you have to go through a process and exceed a certain minimum salary (such as $100,000/yr in CA). And VR probably has limitations on the minimum amount you can invest as well. This basically just makes it easier for them to track so they don't have to manage tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of small individual investments. But the syndicate allows you to invest on a smaller scale even if you are not an accredited investor. It's managed by a third party and it's pretty cool that they decided to undertake it as it provides another source of income for VR without them having the headache of tracking all the micro investments. According to the Producer's Letter, you can reach out to contact@visionaryrealms.com to learn more about the syndicate.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at January 11, 2020 2:10 PM PST
    • 1281 posts
    January 11, 2020 2:35 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    Despite the number of pledgers who call themselves "investors", the two are not remotely the same thing. The legal definition of pledges is "a charitable donation". Pledge rewards do not change that.

     

    Well, not exactly.  'Charitable Donation' has a specific meaning under the law, and Visionary Realms isn't a 501(c) non-profit.  It's more of a "gift".

    • 1992 posts
    January 11, 2020 5:32 PM PST

    Kalok said:

    Jothany said:

    Despite the number of pledgers who call themselves "investors", the two are not remotely the same thing. The legal definition of pledges is "a charitable donation". Pledge rewards do not change that.

    Well, not exactly.  'Charitable Donation' has a specific meaning under the law, and Visionary Realms isn't a 501(c) non-profit.  It's more of a "gift".

     

    You silly Fantheon. Celandor beat you to it by over an hour :D

    Jothany said:

    I can also see that I wasn't being as clear as possible in my post. A better way to say it would have been "the legal definition of what we are doing when we pledge to Pantheon" is making a donation.

    • 65 posts
    January 12, 2020 6:59 AM PST

    Thanks for the info. I wonder what the minimum investment is...

    • 41 posts
    January 13, 2020 4:49 AM PST
    Do you guys have any information where we could participate in that investment pool?
    • 2886 posts
    January 13, 2020 4:59 AM PST

    Geex said: Do you guys have any information where we could participate in that investment pool?

    According to the Producer's Letter, reach out to contact@visionaryrealms.com and they can get you in touch.

    • 9115 posts
    January 15, 2020 4:17 PM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    Geex said: Do you guys have any information where we could participate in that investment pool?

    According to the Producer's Letter, reach out to contact@visionaryrealms.com and they can get you in touch.

    Thanks Baz, for any further information, please use contact@visionaryrealms.com and we will put you in touch with the right people but other than that, we have nothing to do with the syndicate.